Spain's eye-catching faux pas (Update PG23)

[Khan]

So he shouldn't be mad that the British Media are always on a witch hunt to portray the Spaniards as Barbarians?

No one knows if the China is offended. The gesture is not offensive in Spain. And yet we have these 3rd parties demanding apologies with their own agenda.

I am not commenting on how he felt about the British Media. I am just commenting on his first reaction to the latest apology. Why would the gesture be offensive in Spain? Spain is full of Chinese people? I don't care about how the Americans or British felt on this issue, just the team are public figures, they should be more knowledgeable on this kind of situation.

The Media war between Britain and Spain has been going on for years, so they see it just another battle in the war between Britain and Spain.

If Sweden, Chile, Philippines etc had made the criticism or even China itself then there would have been apology and end of story.

Since its the British who clearly know the intent of the pic but who are intent on throwing Spain under the bus..it has become an entire different issue. Had the British paper not gone around seeking publicity nothing would have happened.

See its not the British Media intent to suggest its a misguided pic, its their intent to portray Spain as Barbaric Racists. I don't expect to receive an apology from them.

Like you said, with an apology, it is the end of story. They apologized, and the story ended. The battle of media between Britain and Spain is not my concern, and whatever Calderon said about the British, I have nothing against him. If the Spanish team never posed for the photo, the British may not have this opportunity to say anything? The team publicists should do their job better.

[sule]

Dunno if anyone else posted this, but the Spanish Olympic Tennis Team did the same damn pose. This trend, IMO, is disturbing.

http://gawker.com/5037034/spanish-tenni ... naman-pose

[Khan]

finally someone knows what I am talking about...

last thing...since internet takes everyone access anywhere, even though it's a local advertisement, other countries still have access to see it.

This access thing is stupid. You would have never seen the pic had the British paper not made it an international event.

Do you read Marca on a daily basis? I can't even access their ads online

I guess Spain is just like any Communism country that they can protect their information so well that nobody has any access to their advertisements? I wonder if the asian tourists are allowed in the country. I wonder what youtube is for...

[dagger]

Some of you moralizers are pushing the hypocrisy meter to the extreme red zone. This board is rampant with subtle and not so subtle prejudice all the time. Whether it's homophobia (I wonder how many of you think the expression "That's gay!" isn't prejudice.

Then there are all those avatars of near naked women, but I guess a lot of you don't think that's sexist to a good portion of the female population.

Is there anyone who is really without prejudice? I doubt it.

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

Some of you moralizers are pushing the hypocrisy meter to the extreme red zone. This board is rampant with subtle and not so subtle prejudice all the time. Whether it's homophobia (I wonder how many of you think the expression "That's gay!" isn't prejudice.

Then there are all those avatars of near naked women, but I guess a lot of you don't think that's sexist to a good portion of the female population.

Is there anyone who is really without prejudice? I doubt it.

End thread.

[Spanishraptor23]

Some of you moralizers are pushing the hypocrisy meter to the extreme red zone. This board is rampant with subtle and not so subtle prejudice all the time. Whether it's homophobia (I wonder how many of you think the expression "That's gay!" isn't prejudice.

Then there are all those avatars of near naked women, but I guess a lot of you don't think that's sexist to a good portion of the female population.

Is there anyone who is really without prejudice? I doubt it.

+1

I cant count how many times some of this "offended" posters say something like :"those soft sissy europeans players...". In my continent, this is real racism.

[Spanishraptor23]

The FEB Maintains a cordial Relationship with The People´s Republic of China´s Basketball

14/08/2008 Beijing/Madrid, August 14th, 2008. Due to the controversy that has arisen in the press because of a gesture made by the Spanish men´s basketball team in an advertisement photo taken before the Olympic Games in Beijing (which imitates the slanted eyes that the Spanish culture affectionately identifies with Asians in general and Chinese people in particular), the Spanish Basketball Federation feels the need to express the following:

1. That, as the immense majority of the Spanish and international general public have fortunately understood, and as the embassy of the People´s Republic of China in Spain has corroborated, that the only significance of said gesture was one of affection, friendliness and recognition, which is what this Federation feels for the people of China and their country.

2. That the FEB has maintains a now long relationship with basketball in the People´s Republic of China, and is committed to its development, which is highly reflected in the tight collaboration found in referee, player and coach training, as in the regular visits that the different teams of the Chinese Basketball Federation have to our country, as they are invited by the FEB to compete and prepare for their international competitions.

3. That beyond athletic relationships, the FEB has been one of the first Federations in the world to maintain commercial relationships with Chinese institutions and businesses, such as the athletic shoe and apparel company Li-Ning, which is one of the oldest agreements that the FEB has. Molten and Lenovo are other Asian companies that collaborate with the FEB, the first of the which has already dedicatedly contributed to the biggest success in Spanish basketball history, two years ago when the world championship medal was conquered in 2006, in Japan precisely.

For these reasons, the FEB considers that this controversy, which is completely gratuitous, was generated in bad faith by some members of the press who wanted to harm not only the FEB´s image, yet also the image of our country and our sport, so we therefore reserve the right to take appropriate legal action in order to safeguard it.

Once this press release has been published, the FEB considers the topic closed, and will not make any further declarations regarding the situation.

----------

[Shaazzam]

Personally, I think it is wrong to call for an end to dialogue.

I can understand calling for an end to the incessant bickering over past issues, but I think this incident has created an opportunity to come to an understanding on different peoples perspectives on ethnic relations. Whether anyone wants to address it, I guess that's the issue.

And Phantomphoenix, the issue of access is not stupid. It might even be considered naive to assume so. The reason you have mentioned it was posted is a motive, and people can always have a motive for sharing images. The why is not really important, the fact is that everything gets around now. To assume otherwise is outdated.

Edit: That's dynamite spanishraptor, thanks for posting.

[BlackIce]

I am not asian, and I find it to be insensitive.

What if they were in a country where large lips where a common feature and the whole team stuck out their lips?

i am black and that my friend would be funny.
u guys r too sensitive mangs.

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

Personally, I think it is wrong to call for an end to dialogue.

I can understand calling for an end to the incessant bickering over past issues, but I think this incident has created an opportunity to come to an understanding on different peoples perspectives on ethnic relations. Whether anyone wants to address it, I guess that's the issue.

And Phantomphoenix, the issue of access is not stupid. It might even be considered naive to assume so. The reason you have mentioned it was posted is a motive, and people can always have a motive for sharing images. The why is not really important, the fact is that everything gets around now. To assume otherwise is outdated.

I will tell you why the issue of access is stupid. There are plenty of things that are offensive somewhere but not elsewhere. For example, there are plenty of phrases in Spanish that when translated are offensive but in Spanish and in Spain they are not. Even Spanish phrases between Latin America and Spain differ in what is offensive.

So its very easy to take something that is not offensive in one context and make it offensive just through translation. That is taking political correctness to a whole new level. To the point where I better be careful that something I say is not offensive when translated into some language I am not even aware of.

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

So how offensive do you think this pic is?

No one wants to take the bait.

[mihaic]

^^^ to khan
The point is that the gesture made by Ronaldo, Spanish teams, and others may be made in good faith and is considered humorous or suggestive (i.e. pertains to asian culture, which is not negative or pejorative) The gesture is therefore not necessarily offensive outside US and Canada (it basically depends on context)

The context in which the photo was made is clearly non racial even if some US or Brit papers would like to make it look that way

But it seems you have made your mind that you need to dislike Calderon regardless of what you are responded so I guess I am just wasting my time

It may seem humorous to some people, but what about those that find it offensive? Who determines if the gesture is offensive or not? It's not all about the North Americans. Assuming China is not hosting the Olympics, the situation could be different.

I just don't like how Calderon expressed his thoughts to the media even though he apologized, I don't think it's cool. If it's a waste of time, you shouldn't bother to post something like that I guess. sorry that i wasted your time?

But Calderon was one of the fist to react. He did not apologise because there was nothing to apologise for in his opinion, since there was no racial slur or other things pictured by the brittish and american newspapers.

And BTW the Chinese Embassy in Spain issued a statement that the photo is not offensive nor racist.

And BTW my asian gf (not chinese, I know, I am grasping at straws here) also issued a statement it is not racist nor offensive either. When I did it to her she said it was funny.

[Shaazzam]

Personally, I think it is wrong to call for an end to dialogue.

I can understand calling for an end to the incessant bickering over past issues, but I think this incident has created an opportunity to come to an understanding on different peoples perspectives on ethnic relations. Whether anyone wants to address it, I guess that's the issue.

And Phantomphoenix, the issue of access is not stupid. It might even be considered naive to assume so. The reason you have mentioned it was posted is a motive, and people can always have a motive for sharing images. The why is not really important, the fact is that everything gets around now. To assume otherwise is outdated.

I will tell you why the issue of access is stupid. There are plenty of things that are offensive somewhere but not elsewhere. For example, there are plenty of phrases in Spanish that when translated are offensive but in Spanish and in Spain they are not. Even Spanish phrases between Latin America and Spain differ in what is offensive.

So its very easy to take something that is not offensive in one context and make it offensive just through translation. That is taking political correctness to a whole new level. To the point where I better be careful that something I say is not offensive when translated into some language I am not even aware of.

Agreed, context is always important. And people should be more willing to understand that there may be another context when they view something other than what they infer. That is all part of the exercise of being more tolerant of others. To not always assume the worst, but possibly assume there may be another reason. But access is always there my man. We also have to remember the context of this situation as well, in which players are in their uniforms. So that context is clear, there is more that was not. I hope I'm not trying to work it both ways here.

I am thinking more about images and access, and that's only in my mind, and not something I think I have shared, so I can't expect you to know that. That's my bad. I see your point about language and translation.

[Tomato]

So how offensive do you think this pic is?

No one wants to take the bait.

We have all read the Da Vinci code.

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

So how offensive do you think this pic is?

No one wants to take the bait.

We have all read the Da Vinci code.

Not everyone...hence some responses in the thread that was ongoing in the General NBA thread.

Now, because of internet access as some have argued, Semana Santa which is depicted in the pic can be seen around the world. I guess they better change the customs so they don't offend everyone.

[Shaazzam]

So how offensive do you think this pic is?

No one wants to take the bait.

We have all read the Da Vinci code.

Not everyone...hence some responses in the thread that was ongoing in the General NBA thread.

Now, because of internet access as some have argued, Semana Santa which is depicted in the pic can be seen around the world. I guess they better change the customs so they don't offend everyone.

I know the context, and I've known it every single time I've seen that picture.

Wrong.

What they need to do is explain to those that don't understand what they are.

And it's not that the onus is on them. They aren't walking around with the flag of spain draped around their necks. So this is where your statement about context comes into play. It's a double edged sword.

[Darrick Martin]

I <3 that pimp cane he/she's rocking

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

I know the context, and I've known it every single time I've seen that picture.

Wrong.

What they need to do is explain to those that don't understand what they are.

And it's not that the onus is on them. They aren't walking around with the flag of spain draped around their necks. So this is where your statement about context comes into play. It's a double edged sword.

Umm..u do realize there are Semana Santa outfits with Spanish crests on the front and websites with tons of pics not explaining anything but illustrating this custom all over Spain.

Just because you understand the context doesn't mean others do. Don't pretend like this is common knowledge. The first responses I got on the general board had to do with KKK.

[Khan]

But Calderon was one of the fist to react. He did not apologise because there was nothing to apologise for in his opinion, since there was no racial slur or other things pictured by the brittish and american newspapers.

And BTW the Chinese Embassy in Spain issued a statement that the photo is not offensive nor racist.

And BTW my asian gf (not chinese, I know, I am grasping at straws here) also issued a statement it is not racist nor offensive either. When I did it to her she said it was funny.

Really, one of the first eh...Gasol apologized a few days before him, the IOC issued a statement saying how inappropriate it is before Calderon apologized. This is not racism, this is about how much the Spanish team did not know better about posing for such photo. That's what they should apologize for, and they did. Stop associating racism and their photo together because it's just insensitive that can be hurtful to some people.

Chinese embassy did? you got a link? I would like to see that. Like I said before, this is not racism, China has other issues to deal with, they gotta show how generous and open they are during the olympics.

Last thing, do you think anyone cares how your girlfriend feels? She's just one individual, not representing the whole asian community. Look at the bigger picture. Maybe she is one of those asians that are ashamed of her asian background. Do we know that? nope...so her opinion is not that relevant.

[DG88]

Yet Jose Luis Saez, president of the Spanish Basketball Federation, told CNN on Thursday that people are wrong to suggest the photograph has racist overtones.

"It's simply ridiculous," he said. "It was a gesture of affection ... and identification with the Chinese people."

He pointed to a Wednesday article in El Pais, a Spanish newspaper, that quoted a Chinese Embassy spokesman in Spain as saying "we don't interpret this gesture as offensive" or racist.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiap ... pstoryview

There's your link Khan