Spain's eye-catching faux pas (Update PG23)

[Sheenmue]

You're missing the point completely. Do you really think 1.3 billion people have "slanty-eyes" like how the Spanish basketball team is depicting it? African-Americans tend to have darker skin than other ethnicities due to their differences in levels of melanin. Would you find it inoffensive for the Chinese or German basketball team to pose in blackface?

Irrespective of whether a "lot of guys in Spain think asian eyes are sexy", that doesn't give them or anybody the right to caricature another ethnic group's physical appearance, let alone condone such actions as being anything but racist.

Definitively the problem is the different sense of humor in Spain and latin american countries and the rest of the world. If you read any newspaper in Spain you gonna find a humor section with this kind of caricatures http://www.e-faro.info/CASTELLA/ECaricat/ECARICPG.html . If you look carefully there are caricatures about Ronaldinho and Ronaldo, and they don't feel it's racist or offensive.

Anyway, as spaniard i apologize to any people who considered this racist.

[mooken422]

I'm sorry but I'm actualy more outraged that people are taking offence to this picture. One poster said it before me but we need to be more accepting and practice some humility when it comes to race instead of being a bunch of uptight ass's who get their little panties all up in knots cause of some little picture.

How would people feel if white American guys were mocking African-Americans by pretending to be gorillas, or some such?

or, say, doing the tomahawk chop in support of a sports team named for native americans? or posing w/ gangsta leans with gold chains and crossed-arms and gun-fingers?

[Shaazzam]

I_Like_Dirt: thank you for posting that. very-well stated. I agree 100%. I'd like to think that an official apology by the Spanish delegation would be redemptive not so much for the apology itself, but allow the potential to understand precisely why it was so offensive to begin with.

I'll be surprised if the Spanish bureaucrats address this.

Jose on the other hand, plays in a market with a high number of Asians. He might have some explaining to do. I wonder how tickled BC is by this.

[The_Original_Baller]

All this proves is a lot of people here are either racist or are ok with racisim and that's why a lot of these very same people not only favored Jose over TJ, but vilified TJ every chance they got..... I called it a long time ago.

[Shaazzam]

All this proves is a lot of people here are either racist or are ok with racisim and that's why a lot of these very same people favored Jose over TJ..... I called it a long time ago.

OK I'm done with mentioning TJ now.

It's posts like this that prove many of us are self-important, judgmental and too willing to group the few into the many.

[The_Original_Baller]

All this proves is a lot of people here are either racist or are ok with racisim and that's why a lot of these very same people favored Jose over TJ..... I called it a long time ago.

OK I'm done with mentioning TJ now.

It's posts like this that prove many of us are self-important, judgmental and too willing to group the few into the many.

You know what though, i always felt like there was an underlying hint of racism directed towards TJ all the time, the guy never had a chance when Jose came on the scene. You know how many new EURO/Spanish ppl came on these boards, and how many other people just rallied behind Jose? I'm not saying Jose is a bad player but IMO he wasn't OUTPLAYING TJ, people just "perfered" Jose. I remember mentioning race a long time ago and everyone shouted me off the board, NOW we see an obvious sign of racism and the same people are making excuses for Jose, so to me it's now obvious. That's all i'm saying, it's obvious what was going on with TJ/JOSE.

[mooken422]

I've grown up in Scarborough in a very diverse area and have friends from every race, so I usually take racist jokes lightly. We make fun of each of our races based on stereotypes and no one ever gets offended because we understand its just joking around, whether we're friends or not. But what this team is doing is making fun of the physical appearance of a race. That seems a bit over the top.

I would love to hear the mastermind behind this explain themselves. What was the point of this picture?

i think among friends, it's one thing. my jackass brown friend says he can't tellus damn asians apart.

more than anything else, i'm just *face-palming* over the spaniard photo .. incidentally, i watched ep 1 of Extras, and there's something to this effect as well.

[Meursault]

I_Like_Dirt: thank you for posting that. very-well stated. I agree 100%. I'd like to think that an official apology by the Spanish delegation would be redemptive not so much for the apology itself, but allow the potential to understand precisely why it was so offensive to begin with.

I'll be surprised if the Spanish bureaucrats address this.

Jose on the other hand, plays in a market with a high number of Asians. He might have some explaining to do. I wonder how tickled BC is by this.

yeah, I was referring more to the discourse on this forum and other such avenues. I agree, I highly doubt that this incident will go beyond an apology from the Spanish basketball delegation (if even that--it could likely just be swept under the carpet, so to speak), which is what I was referring to. I'm disappointed a little in Jose for not objecting to this since I have a few acquaintances who know him well enough to say concretely that he doesn't actually express such sentiments. Nevertheless, given that this wasn't his team's decision and that he was just one individual part of a large group cuts him some decent slack, but it doesn't make his (or any of the others') actions excusable either.

[cdel00]

Stereotype puts people into groups based on prejudgement.
ie. He must be bad because he's from XXX

Racism insults people based on racial differences.
ie. He must be bad because his skin colour is XXX

That pic is racist because it points out a racial difference and it is insulting because the racial difference it refers to historically has been used to degrade that race.

I understand the Spanish viewpoint and attempt at humor however it was insulting, insensitive and not funny. Let me ask you if you would be comfortable making that gesture to a group of Asians in a dark alley.

[J-Roc]

The fact this is now on tmz.com. I think Jose, the NBAer, will need to address it. Pau Gasol, too. They would just say, "we meant no harm, blah blah". And I'd believe them. But they must address it.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Definitively the problem is the different sense of humor in Spain and latin american countries and the rest of the world. If you read any newspaper in Spain you gonna find a humor section with this kind of caricatures http://www.e-faro.info/CASTELLA/ECaricat/ECARICPG.html . If you look carefully there are caricatures about Ronaldinho and Ronaldo, and they don't feel it's racist or offensive.

I don't even think that's the case, either. In every culture you wind up with racially, ethnically or socially incensitive comedy. Go to any other continent and there were brutally incensitive jokes about 9/11 for example. The biggest diffrerence between this joke and some (not all) of the stuff that gets by is awareness. In this case it's pretty clear that there is no awareness whatsoever of the messages sent by the supposed "joke" or else there is no way the ad would have never been printed. Whoever posted that there are worlds of difference between racism and ignorance couldn't have been more wrong. Racism is a type of ignorance and the Spanish basketball team and anybody else associated with the print ad just demonstrated a whole whack of ignorance. The Chinese definitely mock other cultures in their own ways but they don't do it on the Olympic forum for good reason.

[Grizzled]

This has offended me so much I'm literally crying right now...

You are one of the most racially insensitive people on this board. You have made countless racial slurs against Euros yourself. Hopefully there is a lesson in this for you.

When have i made a racial slur towards europeans?

lol! Good one. How about all last season.

[Hanson_love]

lol! Good one. How about all last season.

Really? I remember hating on certain europeans on our team last season but don't recall saying anything racist towards them. Can you give me an example of a racist remark that I have said?

[The_Original_Baller]

The fact this is now on tmz.com. I think Jose, the NBAer, will need to address it. Pau Gasol, too. They would just say, "we meant no harm, blah blah". And I'd believe them. But they must address it.

I'm telling you right now, what goes around comes around, Karma really is a bitch. Jose snaked his starting spot and nothing can be done about it now but i promise to roast his ass over this. I already know two local Asian groups who are thinking about preparing a formal letter to MLSE about Jose and i hope he gets whatever is coming to him.

[Shaazzam]

All this proves is a lot of people here are either racist or are ok with racisim and that's why a lot of these very same people favored Jose over TJ..... I called it a long time ago.

OK I'm done with mentioning TJ now.

It's posts like this that prove many of us are self-important, judgmental and too willing to group the few into the many.

You know what though, i always felt like there was an underlying hint of racism directed towards TJ all the time, the guy never had a chance when Jose came on the scene. You know how many new EURO/Spanish ppl came on these boards, and how many other people just rallied behind Jose? I'm not saying Jose is a bad player but IMO he wasn't OUTPLAYING TJ, people just "perfered Jose. I remember mentioning race a long time ago and everyone shouted me off the board, NOW we see an obvious sign of racism and the same people are making excuses for Jose, so now to me it's obvious. That's all i'm saying and now i feel it's pretty obvious.

But you are attributing the reason for that preference as one solely based on race. I have long felt that there may have been some merit to some people having preferences based on your reasoning, but that was a fairly small minority.

And there are some of our fanbase that do come from other countries that will cheer for one particular player because they feel an ethnic or cultural connection. There is nothing wrong with that.

And then there is an even larger group, whom I would consider the overwhelming majority, who preferred him solely on style of play and performance. It's your opinion that one was preferable to the other, and I even shared that view for many reasons. But we are not here to debate the past.

It is not inconceivable that people could disagree with your views and yet not be racists.

Edit: To make it even more clear, just because people cheer for Jose because he is spanish and they are spanish, or european, or whatever, does not mean that they don't like TJ because they are racists. It's possible to feel a connection with another and not have a disconnect with someone else.

[Shaazzam]

lol! Good one. How about all last season.

Really? I remember hating on certain europeans on our team last season but don't recall saying anything racist towards them. Can you give me an example of a racist remark that I have said?

Grizzled, stop derailing the discussion.

[Grizzled]

You're missing the point completely. Do you really think 1.3 billion people have "slanty-eyes" like how the Spanish basketball team is depicting it? African-Americans tend to have darker skin than other ethnicities due to their differences in levels of melanin. Would you find it inoffensive for the Chinese or German basketball team to pose in blackface?

Irrespective of whether a "lot of guys in Spain think asian eyes are sexy", that doesn't give them or anybody the right to caricature another ethnic group's physical appearance, let alone condone such actions as being anything but racist.

Definitively the problem is the different sense of humor in Spain and latin american countries and the rest of the world. If you read any newspaper in Spain you gonna find a humor section with this kind of caricatures http://www.e-faro.info/CASTELLA/ECaricat/ECARICPG.html . If you look carefully there are caricatures about Ronaldinho and Ronaldo, and they don't feel it's racist or offensive.

Anyway, as spaniard i apologize to any people who considered this racist.

That’s a classy thing to do, and I think it helps us understand. But especially with an ad involving the national team that was sure to be seen around the world, someone should have considered whether it would be offensive in other cultures. There are certain hand gestures and certain words, for example, which are considered offensive in other languages, and if something is going out to a global audience then there are cultural experts that you have to consult to make sure you’re not accidentally offending anyone. I simply can’t understand why that wouldn’t have been done with this ad.

[rottenzombie]

Really, no one should be surprised that a Spanish firm wanted to do an ad like that.......After all, the angry Spanish mobs burned crates of products manufactured in China, just because they are cheaper than what the Spanish made http://www.china.org.cn/english/BAT/110505.htm Many Spanish clothing manufacturers feel threatened by the much cheaper Chinese products and so do their employees, so it is only natural that a Spanish firm would exploit this kind of sentiment.

[The_Original_Baller]

But you are attributing the reason for that preference as one solely based on race. I have long felt that there may have been some merit to some people having preferences based on your reasoning, but that was a fairly small minority.

And there are some of our fanbase that do come from other countries that will cheer for one particular player because they feel an ethnic or cultural connection. There is nothing wrong with that.

And then there is an even larger group, whom I would consider the overwhelming majority, who preferred him solely on style of play and performance. It's your opinion that one was preferable to the other, and I even shared that view for many reasons. But we are not here to debate the past.

You seem to be putting mixing your groups up. It seemed that the majority were actually the minority and viceversa because you were most opposed to those reasons. It is not inconceivable that people could disagree with your views and yet not be racists.

I don't disagree with you entirely but i feel the people who preferred Jose over TJ soley based on Jose being spanish or Jose looking "more like them" is bigger than you are willing to acknowledge. Yes i understand some people liked Jose over TJ and they aren't racist but there were people, a lot of people who not only perferred Jose but always tried to bring TJ down whenever they got a chance, even when TJ did nothing wrong. I never heard TJ say one bad thing about the city but i swear the hate for TJ was reaching VC like proportions, this was no accident.

[Duncanfan]

The fact this is now on tmz.com. I think Jose, the NBAer, will need to address it. Pau Gasol, too. They would just say, "we meant no harm, blah blah". And I'd believe them. But they must address it.

I'm telling you right now, what goes around comes around, Karma really is a bitch. Jose snaked his starting spot and nothing can be done about it now but i promise to roast his ass over this. I already know two local Asian groups who are thinking about preparing a formal letter to MLSE about Jose and i hope he gets whatever is coming to him.

No baiting. -Shaazzam