Is Bargnani better than his stats indicate?

[GCougar]

Im also thinking maybe its time we play four bigs with AB at center and Humphries at the four while JO and Bosh rest, that would allow Bargnani to get a little more touches and not continuously be feeding one of Bosh and JO all game. They are tiring out during games and a player being tired has less chance of being 100% focused 100% of the time and scoring the ball, plus Bargnani has just been showing he can score so why not?

Bargs and Hump on the floor in preseason was baaaaad. By the time you put Bosh or JO back in you're going to be down a bunch of points. Sadly, when JO or Bosh gets hurt this year, it's going to be Hump and Bargs time = killed against good teams.

Bargs with 2 free throw attempts in 5 games.

He still seems to be standing around way too much on the offensive end, not fighting for position, or setting screens, or moving through the paint. Not that many other Raps are either.

I'm not sure if he's just slow or lacks hustle, but he seems to be in slo-motion far too much on both ends of the court.

[Hit Em Up]

Although I like Sam.. I sometimes wonder how our players would play with a different coach...

[j3yuen]

It is a coach's job to draw up plays for their talented offensive players. In three years, Bargnani has never had a play drawn for him. Three seasons, and every point he's scored as a Raptor has been on an isolation, a post up, a spontaneous pick-and-roll, or a kick-out jump shot.

Has anyone ever set a screen to get him open, considering at the time he was drafted there were executives calling him the best shooting big man in the league already?

It's obvious this author has not been watching Raptor games for the last few seasons. If he watched more than 1 game, he would notice that Sam does not really run any plays for anyone. All the points that Bosh scores, is on isolation, post up, pick and roll, kick out jump shot. That's the way that every other Raptors score their points. So, I don't know why Bargs will get special treatment. Sam is an idiot when it comes to running plays and X and Os. The author is clearly clueless.

actually, i think smitch runs plays for parker, he curls off screens and takes wide open jumpers but then again he's the only person on our team who's capable of doing that. I used to think they should run plays for kapono but after watching the games this season, i realize that'll be a waste because he'll just pump fake and dribble into a double team

[Hephaestus114]

That giant rant about Bargs is hilarious.

He shot below 40% last year and the writer is wondering why his teammates don't give him the ball more than Parker, Kapono, Calderon, Bosh and O'Neil?

Jose and Bosh are "pulling a Jordan" because they won't feed Bargs? Since when was good team play determined by the number of times your favourite player gets to shoot the basketball?

And no, Bargs' play is not better than his stats indicate. He's improved, but this is just another thread trying to justify superstar status that he simply hasn't earned. He's currently a solid bench player. His stats support that position. But it's 5 games into the season and anythng can happen.

[08HEMI]

That giant rant about Bargs is hilarious.

He shot below 40% last year and the writer is wondering why his teammates don't give him the ball more than Parker, Kapono, Calderon, Bosh and O'Neil?

Jose and Bosh are "pulling a Jordan" because they won't feed Bargs? Since when was good team play determined by the number of times your favourite player gets to shoot the basketball?

And no, Bargs' play is not better than his stats indicate. He's improved, but this is just another thread trying to justify superstar status that he simply hasn't earned. He's currently a solid bench player. His stats support that position. But it's 5 games into the season and anythng can happen.

I have yet to see anyone here call him a superstar or demanding he become the focal point of our team, what I see is fans recognizing he has improved and should get more touches and become a bigger part of our offense, nothing more.

[Vorticity]

No one has noticed the author of that article is Messiah2315? lol
seriously ...

[Paperclip]

No one has noticed the author of that article is Messiah2315? lol
seriously ...

nice catch, explains everything.

[J-Roc]

It's time to start being realistic. If this guy had a hope of succeeding in this league, he would have had to be a skinny PF like Dirk. Now that we've tried to change his game completely, he will only ever be a fringe, decent player. Not a difference maker. At most, a solid guy like Rasho turned out to be.

In year one, he was doing things that made him seem like a future star. He was a 7 footer hitting outside J's. But now...now we get excited when he hits a layup.

[O'DEAN_MAGNUM]

Is Bargnani better than his stats indicate?
all depends which stats you're looking at.

The Good stats:
- His shot selection has improved, and Im amazed when I see he has more blocks (8) than 3 pt attempts (7). 54% and 57% shooting (fg% and 3pt% respectively)

The Bad stats:
- Considering this guy was drafted for his offensive abilities he is only scoring 8.0 ppg. Below his 10 ppg career average.

[JN]

Here's the problem. Many in the AB crowd wil develop this theory that he is better then his numbers, when his scoring numbers are low (and perhaps with some merit).... then they won't let go of the theory even when these numbers go up, creating some magical aura of him doing more then stats. Given that he is still an average defensive player at best, and only has average court awareness this will be absurd.

[J Dilla]

Anyone care to explan who this Messiah cat is and what does Bargnani have to do with him?

[Clutch Carter]

Nice post Dam. That was an interesting read. Good stuff.

[C_Money]

edit


wrong thread.

[JN]

Anyone care to explan who this Messiah cat is and what does Bargnani have to do with him?

Messiah is a wannabe model who thinks that Bargnani is the future of the Raptors, and a future superstar. Basically all he is doing is covering his own ass because of his own ridiculous assessment

[Harry Palmer]

Anyone care to explan who this Messiah cat is and what does Bargnani have to do with him?

Messiah was a much-loved and much-locked uber-homer poster most notable for essentially describing Bargs as Hakeem-with-range who would, when challenged on his positions, refer you to his cousin in Italy.

Frankly I thought he added to the board in some respects, but his propensity for losing control at times when disagreed with, and as a result, getting into personal attacks lead to his being given a vacation. He was very popular among many in part because he expressed the over-the-top optimistic angle on most Raps related issues...again, most notably Bargs...and in part because he often actually took the time to try and formulate his posts in an expressive way. I didn't think he was terribly effective in that regard, but the fact that he tried put him ahead of many posters in some ways.

Anyways, the fact that he is still banging the Bargnani drum is about as surprising as Cheney still thinking the war in Iraq was wise, or similar.

[basketball royalty]

I am basically over being bothered by SMitch's inability or unwillingness to draw up plays for guys to get them to capitalize on their strengths. I think guys like Joey G and Bargs and Kapono could be doing better if used differently, and that is just the guys who are still here.

The only thing about that article I truly believe is that Sam will try and change a player to suit his gameplan rather than tweak his gameplan to suit the players on his team, with him it seems you either fit or you don't. I don't particularly like that but in the end if his type of coaching doesn't kill you (Joey) it will only make you stronger and we are seeing the results of that in Bargs this year. This season we see that Bargs has the drive to succeed in this league and is putting in the hours to make it happen. He always had the skills but he needed the bigman mentality to be ingrained to him or he would never truly be a great player, which I think he can still become. It is all baby steps right now and stats like 8pts and 4 rebs don't mean as much as his improvement in shot selection and playing big, all the rest will come in due time.

I mean basically, I can't hate on Sam anymore because I realize he wants his players to be the best they can be and that means he will be harder on a guy who has the higher ceiling than on a guy who doesn't. I think Andrea would get some good numbers playing under a guy like D'Antoni all his career but he would never become a complete player like he has the chance to now. Dirk Nowitzki has always been my barometer for what heights I want Bargs to reach and he only became a real superstar when he started helping out on defense and not being a liability.

All that being said, I do expect that Bargs will see more touches as the season progresses and everyone is comfortable playing together again after the big change with adding JO to the mix. You can see a similar effect in PHI where Brand seems to have thrown things out of whack for guys like Iggy but it is just the beginning of the year and there is a lot more basketball to be played.