Bosh: Happiness outweighs money

[Tommy Udo 6]

He can't be unhappy just because of the boos.

Here's what i think:

Cleveland is spending mega bucks trying to improve the Cavs so LeBron stays

Same with Miami & keeping Wade

The Lakers already have improved, so Kobe is staying

..but the Raptors? The team is not improving as a contender. In fact, it seems to be going backward. To me, this is why Bosh is unhappy. Just a theory..............

[C Court]

Underdog ..., there is NO fricking way that anyone walks away from $36 million in guaranteed money. Bosh's agent Henry Thomas and Bosh's family would send him for a psychiatric exam if he turned down the cash.

It all sounds good, but its not realistic. Bosh's big earning years are limited and you take what you can get.

What if Bosh suffers a serious injury and is forced to retire at 31? No way he ever gets the $36 million. What if he becomes a 12pt/ 8 board guy at age 31 and resigns somewhere for $6 million? He's lost $30 million that he never gets back.

After tax and including interest, $36 million would allow Bosh to have access to an additional $500,000+ per year until he's in his 80's!

The NBA is full of players who turned down guaranteed cash, only to have it back fire. Latrell Sprewell and Oliver Miller are two examples.

[Tommy Udo 6]

If Bosh wants out, he'll do what Lewis did with Seattle. Find a deal & insist on sign & trade. Thus, he would get max money.

Only problem is that Raptors will not get a great return. Seattle mainly got a Trade Exception from Orlando, but it was a huge one.

[There There]

He can't be unhappy just because of the boos.

Here's what i think:

Cleveland is spending mega bucks trying to improve the Cavs so LeBron stays

Same with Miami & keeping Wade

The Lakers already have improved, so Kobe is staying

..but the Raptors? The team is not improving as a contender. In fact, it seems to be going backward. To me, this is why Bosh is unhappy. Just a theory..............

I don't necessarily disagre with the point that the Raptors not spending would upset Bosh more than some boo's. But I disagree with the Miami comparison; they're big money acquisition was done moreso to shed them of Shaq's salary than to improve the team, and chances are Marion may not finish the season in Miami.

I think the JO trade was a move that at least on the surface showed more of an intention to improve on a weak area of the team for the purpose of moving up in the EC... Hasn't worked well thus far obviously, but what BC does next I think will send a stronger message to Bosh if the team is serious about improving.

That doesn't necessarily mean adding a big name; sometimes improvement can come from first taking a step backwards; what would send a bad message to Bosh is not doing anything at all.

[youngLion]

Up until this year I would have said that Bosh seems happy in Toronto, but his attitude lately seems to reflect a change of opinion. Where do you come out on Bosh's decision in 2010 SS? Do you think he'll stick around or he's as good as gone?

I see 2010 the same way as the year Orlando snagged T-Mac. If you remember that year, the big fish were Duncan, Grant Hill and T-Mac. Except that in 2010, the big fish are: Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade, Lebron James, Dirk Nowitzki, Carlos Boozer, Joe Johnson, Michael Redd, and many more. There are going to be a ton of teams with cap space to sign 1 or 2 of these stars, but whereas other teams are on the upswing (Atlanta, Cleveland, Utah, New York, etc.), the Raptors are on the downswing. If you keep the same roster, while preserving the cap space, Bosh is gone after 2 years of misery. If you satisfy him now, by pulling off some trades that sacrify the cap space in 2010, we'll be better, but not Cleveland or Boston better (i.e. not championship material).

If you're Colangelo, what do you do? You tried bringing in a sidekick (O'Neal) and sacrifying the bench, and it hasn't worked. How do you appease Bosh? He painted himself into a corner. Let's see him get out of it.

It'll definitely be interesting to see what Colangelo does. I'm convinced that there'll be some significant roster moves before the deadline, but lately I'm not so sure which way they'll go. Back when the team was hovering around .500 I thought that he'd make a minor tweak to bring in a better swingman, but now I'm not so sure. The team is 11-17, and in no position to make a serious run for anything. There's still enough time to do a thorough restructuring around Bosh before 2010, I wouldn't be surprised if Colangleo totally changes the team around Bosh to make one more run before Bosh can opt out.

[J-Roc]

Can someone confirm for me please....can we offer CB more money in 2010 than anyone else? Same with Lebron and the Cavs?

If so, there is no doubt in my mind he'll stay.

YES.

The rough numbers are:

Raptors offer: Six years @ $136 million

Everyone else's offer: Five years @ $100 million

Bosh will not walk away from $36 million in GUARANTEED money of which $28 million is paid in the sixth year when CB4 is 32 years old. Plus, these max numbers are higher than what will likley be available in the new 2011 CBA.

Now, if Chris is unhappy in 2010 he may ask for a sign and trade or ask for a trade in 2011 - but, I have no doubt that he's taking the money and re-signing in Toronto.

But the point Chris is getting across is if he's unhappy in toronto, it doesn't matter how much money we throw at him, he'll take a paycut to leave

If he wants to leave, he'd sign first, then demand a trade a year later. The sign and trade stuff is only if the team actually doesn't want the player. But the Raps will want CB. If he wants out, the S&T won't be the way to get it. He'd need to sign, have the press conference, donate $1M to a local charity, then demand a trade the next year.

[Tacoma]

This doesn't seal the deal at all.

Accepting CC's numbers as fact, then he's short $36MM by year 6. However, in year 6 (at which time in Bosh's mind, he'd be a superstar at the top of his game), unless he has an unlikely major injury in year 5, he would be signing a 4 year contract in year 6 for $20MM/yr. And as nate33 says, he might get a slightly better deal as a free agent in Year 5 than Year 6.

So we're down to a $16MM difference. If he signs with a major US city such as with the rumoured Knicks, he's going to get a lot more endorsements. This is hard to quantify but lets be conservative and round to $6MM and we're left with $10MM. If the rumours are right that he and Lebron are heading to NY and they end up winning the Championship, then the sky's the limit in endorsements and this debate is over. If he foregoes NY and goes back home to one of the Texas teams, there are no state taxes, so, again, we're talking millions more in his pocket. Either way, he's better off elsewhere from these perspectives.

So the $36MM is down to $10MM (all ballpark) at most. Now he's made about $80-90MM under his current and rookie contracts plus another $100MM with his next contract. That makes about $180MM and with endorsements and investments, he's going to top $250MM easy. At this point (actually, well before this point), $10MM isn't going to dent his bank account a bit and if it buys him "happiness", then it's chump change to Bosh.

As for the walking away from guaranteed money, Bosh has a history of doing that with the Raptors with his current contract.

[ansoncarter]

if he cares so much about winning he might think twice about decimating the team he wants to go to by doing it through a trade

plus he has a lot of confidence in himself. Doubt he looks at that contract and says "yeah there's no way I'll be good enough to make that much by then"

wouldnt' be that crazy if he just signed somewhere else imo

[Condi Rice]

Bosh is your typical me-first athelete who blames everyone else instead of looking in the mirror. I sense another VC situation brewing.

[J Dilla]

Bosh is your typical me-first athelete who blames everyone else instead of looking in the mirror. I sense another VC situation brewing.

Yeah, let's just keep the team first players like Bargnani and watch this team move to Wichita.

[Gold Chain]

Re-sign Bosh.
Jose still here.
Get a prime center.
Slashing 2.
Colangelo finds bench pearls.
Ukic is a decent backup in 2010.
Jawai hopefully is a useful player.

I think he stays. Let's just try and not rip on him on the bad times and try to keep it in perpspective when he plays well. We the fans need to keep the highs and lows in a middle state.

[Vtop]

Call me crazy but I'd be weary of signing Bosh to such a long-term deal....I know you have to do it, but look at how many superstars (example JO) have rotted away in the final years of their deals and became a burden to the teams rebuilding plans

[Condi Rice]

Bosh is your typical me-first athelete who blames everyone else instead of looking in the mirror. I sense another VC situation brewing.

Yeah, let's just keep the team first players like Bargnani and watch this team move to Wichita.

Said nothing about not keeping him. I actually think we should have catered to every one of VC's demands, he was a real superstar, and much more endearing. I'll always love VC. Bosh on the otherhand is a pseudo-star who doesn't play well against good teams. That being said, Lebron's and Paul's don't fall into your lap easily so short of blowing this team up and tanking for 5 years hoping for another franchise player falling in your lap, we should lick CB's nut sac. But with his recent behaviour as evidence it looks like he's more than willing to find ways to punch his ticket out of here.

[cdel00]

Winning makes him happy that's what Bosh is talking about.

Now what would make him really happy is playing on a franchise he built and winning here.

[COY0607]

yeah what else is a player supposed to say........im going to leave winning for money

[C Court]

This doesn't seal the deal at all.

Accepting CC's numbers as fact, then he's short $36MM by year 6. However, in year 6 (at which time in Bosh's mind, he'd be a superstar at the top of his game), unless he has an unlikely major injury in year 5, he would be signing a 4 year contract in year 6 for $20MM/yr. And as nate33 says, he might get a slightly better deal as a free agent in Year 5 than Year 6.

So we're down to a $16MM difference. If he signs with a major US city such as with the rumoured Knicks, he's going to get a lot more endorsements. This is hard to quantify but lets be conservative and round to $6MM and we're left with $10MM. If the rumours are right that he and Lebron are heading to NY and they end up winning the Championship, then the sky's the limit in endorsements and this debate is over. If he foregoes NY and goes back home to one of the Texas teams, there are no state taxes, so, again, we're talking millions more in his pocket. Either way, he's better off elsewhere from these perspectives.

So the $36MM is down to $10MM (all ballpark) at most. Now he's made about $80-90MM under his current and rookie contracts plus another $100MM with his next contract. That makes about $180MM and with endorsements and investments, he's going to top $250MM easy. At this point (actually, well before this point), $10MM isn't going to dent his bank account a bit and if it buys him "happiness", then it's chump change to Bosh.

As for the walking away from guaranteed money, Bosh has a history of doing that with the Raptors with his current contract.

Here's the problem with that.

First, I don't know of any NBA player who walked away from a Max Money deal with their existing team. I can't see Bosh being the first.

There may be one, but I don't recall. For instance, Orlando's signings of T-Mac, Lewis and Hill were all sign & trades. Toronto got a 1st round pick for T-Mac and they turned down players for cap reasons. Detroit received Ben Wallace and Atkins for Hill.

The endorsement issue is overblown. Most ad execs agree that LeBron won't see a major increase in endorsement dollars whether he's in NY or Cleveland. He earns $25 million in endorsenment deals now and is #1 in the NBA. Kobe is 2nd at $10 million. In fact, in all of pro sports only one 'big market player' is in the top ten of endorsements and that's Kobe. Also, LeBron's supposed Big Market Endorsement Bump from Nike is a myth. It doesn't exist. Its a global marketing world with the internet and ESPN and there is no longer a 'big market bump'.

Bosh may see an increase in endorsement money over what he has now, but it won't be that significant. Big endorsement deals are reserved for the top two or three players in the NBA and Chris will not be there. He's no KG and even KG is not a mega endorsement star. In the NBA its LeBron and Kobe and scraps for everyone else.

Bosh could roll the dice, but its a risk. The reason he, LeBron and Wade signed 3 year deals was so they could re-up under the existing CBA before it expires. It is generally assumed that the next CBA in 2011 will not be as rich.

So, based on that premise alone, I don't see why LeBron, Wade or Bosh would throw away that final year of GUARANTEED big money and "hope' they get it back later.

IMO, the only way these guys walk from their existing team is if they get a crazy mega offer from a EuroLeague team.

[Jason Michaels]

Bosh is your typical me-first athelete who blames everyone else instead of looking in the mirror. I sense another VC situation brewing.

What a smart and insightful comment, Mr (or is it Miss) "Condi Rice". Coming from folks in this city though, it shouldn't be a surprise. We have a remarkably reliable record of running out our best players instead of laying the blame where it usually lies - at the foot of the team builder.

[Condi Rice]

Bosh is your typical me-first athelete who blames everyone else instead of looking in the mirror. I sense another VC situation brewing.

What a smart and insightful comment, Mr (or is it Miss) "Condi Rice". Coming from folks in this city though, it shouldn't be a surprise. We have a remarkably reliable record of running out our best players instead of laying the blame where it usually lies - at the foot of the team builder.

I agree, Toronto fans are idiots.

[Jason Michaels]

This doesn't seal the deal at all.

Accepting CC's numbers as fact, then he's short $36MM by year 6. However, in year 6 (at which time in Bosh's mind, he'd be a superstar at the top of his game), unless he has an unlikely major injury in year 5, he would be signing a 4 year contract in year 6 for $20MM/yr. And as nate33 says, he might get a slightly better deal as a free agent in Year 5 than Year 6.

So we're down to a $16MM difference. If he signs with a major US city such as with the rumoured Knicks, he's going to get a lot more endorsements. This is hard to quantify but lets be conservative and round to $6MM and we're left with $10MM. If the rumours are right that he and Lebron are heading to NY and they end up winning the Championship, then the sky's the limit in endorsements and this debate is over. If he foregoes NY and goes back home to one of the Texas teams, there are no state taxes, so, again, we're talking millions more in his pocket. Either way, he's better off elsewhere from these perspectives.

So the $36MM is down to $10MM (all ballpark) at most. Now he's made about $80-90MM under his current and rookie contracts plus another $100MM with his next contract. That makes about $180MM and with endorsements and investments, he's going to top $250MM easy. At this point (actually, well before this point), $10MM isn't going to dent his bank account a bit and if it buys him "happiness", then it's chump change to Bosh.

As for the walking away from guaranteed money, Bosh has a history of doing that with the Raptors with his current contract.

Here's the problem with that.

First, I don't know of any NBA player who walked away from a Max Money deal with their existing team. I can't see Bosh being the first.

There may be one, but I don't recall. For instance, Orlando's signings of T-Mac, Lewis and Hill were all sign & trades. Toronto got a 1st round pick for T-Mac and they turned down players for cap reasons. Detroit received Ben Wallace and Atkins for Hill.

The endorsement issue is overblown. Most ad execs agree that LeBron won't see a major increase in endorsement dollars whether he's in NY or Cleveland. He earns $25 million in endorsenment deals now and is #1 in the NBA. Kobe is 2nd at $10 million. In fact, in all of pro sports only one 'big market player' is in the top ten of endorsements and that's Kobe. Also, LeBron's supposed Big Market Endorsement Bump from Nike is a myth. It doesn't exist. Its a global marketing world with the internet and ESPN and there is no longer a 'big market bump'.

Bosh may see an increase in endorsement money over what he has now, but it won't be that significant. Big endorsement deals are reserved for the top two or three players in the NBA and Chris will not be there. He's no KG and even KG is not a mega endorsement star. In the NBA its LeBron and Kobe and scraps for everyone else.

Bosh could roll the dice, but its a risk. The reason he, LeBron and Wade signed 3 year deals was so they could re-up under the existing CBA before it expires. It is generally assumed that the next CBA in 2011 will not be as rich.

So, based on that premise alone, I don't see why LeBron, Wade or Bosh would throw away that final year of GUARANTEED big money and "hope' they get it back later.

IMO, the only way these guys walk from their existing team is if they get a crazy mega offer from a EuroLeague team.

First of, I don't know what the difference in the deals is, but I'm pretty sure it isn't $36 million. It's probably closer to $24 M, going by the deal Gilbert Arenas was initially offered by the Wiz last summer.

Secondly, while a sign-and-trade similar to what T-Mac executed in 2000 isn't necessarily bailing on the team that offered you a max deal, technically it is, especially when that team gets little or nothing back in return.

You also fail to take the championship factor into account... yes, CB4 may not have the plummiest endorsements, but he doesn't need a 6-yr/$100M Nike endorsement to "recoup" any amount gained by walking away from Toronto. All he needs is a $24M deal from a variety of sponsors... and he can get this by being an anchor on a championship team, believe me.

Lastly, the man is a budding (some say "wannabe") producer, actor, comedian, etc... what better market for exposure than either NYC or LA?

[Lockdown]

Can someone confirm for me please....can we offer CB more money in 2010 than anyone else? Same with Lebron and the Cavs?

If so, there is no doubt in my mind he'll stay.

YES.

The rough numbers are:

Raptors offer: Six years @ $136 million

Everyone else's offer: Five years @ $100 million

Bosh will not walk away from $36 million in GUARANTEED money of which $28 million is paid in the sixth year when CB4 is 32 years old. Plus, these max numbers are higher than what will likley be available in the new 2011 CBA.

Now, if Chris is unhappy in 2010 he may ask for a sign and trade or ask for a trade in 2011 - but, I have no doubt that he's taking the money and re-signing in Toronto.

This point is completely moot. He'll just demand the sign & trade like you mention at the end, he's getting his money no matter what. Leverage in a sign & trade is weak because the other guys can say "it's this or he signs with us for less and you get nothing."

The money is not any kind of ace up Toronto's sleeve, unless right now you'd rather have Boris Diaw & Robin Lopez than Joe Johnson.