Chris Bosh breaks own record

[rdtx2005]

Market place dictates he will make max money.. dunno what all you people are talking about.

[Eating a Book]

So it's because CB4 didn't improve any part of his game that we are 31-49?

Damn you Chris Bosh, damn you for not being able to carry poorly coached, disjointed, talent lacking, injured team.

There are a hell of a lot more problems with this team being a contender than CB4 not having a Dream Shake.

No one in any board has ever put ALL the blame on any ONE player. I know I didn't. Maybe you're the kind of guy who gives all credit to one player when a team does well. You wouldn't be the only one. If this team was better next year because of coaching or depth or whatever....and yet if CB put up the exact same numbers, you all would hype Bosh as the reason the team is good.

You make some very sweeping generalizations, but you really pick it out when someone else does it. I don't think anyone here is saying Bosh is the reason we're terrible, and I don't think there's anyone here that would think, were we actually a good team, that Bosh was the sole reason for that.

You guys both know what the reality of the situation is. Quit being stubborn.

[Raps in 4]

He is an effective offensive flopper. Perhaps the best power forward flopper ever.

Again, I know he does get contact, but he sells it pretty good too, as though he's been shot from the nosebleed seats.

I agree.

[J-Roc]

that.

You guys both know what the reality of the situation is. Quit being stubborn.

Going back to my anti-Smitch threads, all I'd get in return was, "Oh, so you think Smitch is the only problem with this team....."

If I post negative about CB, I get, "Oh, so you think CB is the only problem".

If I say AP's vet leadership is overrated since this team has come out flat so many games this season, I get, "Oh, so you think AP is the only problem."

You can never say anything bad about any one player or situation on this team without someone making the snarky comment that I'm saying this one "issue" is the "only" problem. Oh, and followed by the like they just made some brilliant argument.

[timdunkit]

You guys will just never get it. Would Dwight Howard be satisfied if he was #5 in the league in rebounds? No, because he has the skillset to be #1. And he knows that if he's not #1 in that stat, then he's not being as effect as he should be for his team.

As long as Chris Bosh - the only big man in the league who can actually drive - is satisfied being mainly a jumpshooter, and not #1 in knocking other bigs out of the game with foul trouble (same applies to Bargnani), this team is going nowhere.

More importantly, Bosh absolutely needs to add some real low post moves to his game if he wants to continue drawing fouls. Right now, he solely relies on his quickness advantage over other plodding bigs. His first step. That WILL go. If he wants to be a jumpshooter, then fine, he needs to hit his shots as well as Dirk. Otherwise, he needs to get more inside moves goin and he needs to practice his bank shots.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Fr ... ll%20Teams

Look at the top 20, the only big men in there are:

1. Dwight Howard - 854 attempts 59.4% - 10.8 attempts per game
5. Chris Bosh - 599 attempts 81.8% - 8 attempts per game
9. Dirk Nowitzki - 522 attempts - 89.1% - 6.6 attempts per game
13/14. Shaq - 499 attempts - 60.3% - 6.8 attempts per game
16. Tim Duncan - 468 attempts - 69.2% - 6.4 attempts per game
19. Antwan Jamison - 450 attempts - 75.3% - 5.6 attempts per game

As you can see, Bosh attempted the 2nd most free throws but also had the 2nd highest rate per game. Note there are only 6 PF/C in the top 20 at drawring free throw and note BOSH IS SECOND!

Now how much does each produce from the free throw line? Simple formula - percent x attempts

D12 - 6.4 pts per game
CB4 - 6.5 pts per game
Dirk - 5.9 pts per game
Shaq - 4.1 pts per game
Duncan - 4.4 pts per game
Antwan - 4.2 pts per game

What does this tell you? Well its flawed in many ways but Bosh produces as many pts from the free throw line as D12. Note the compeition , D12 and Shaq are HUGE literally, unstoppable in the post and get a lot of free throws just because of there presense alone. Dirk doesn't attempt as many but hemakes up for it with superb shooting (close to 90%). Duncan and Jamison both average 2 pts less then Bosh.

So would one say Bosh is the best big between a balance of hitting his free throws and getting there? I would atlesat say he is top 2 ...

Notes about Bosh, his body isnt designed for him to constantly take a beating and keep going to the line, yet he still manages! If he kepts driving like you and Leo would want him to, he would be more susceptible to injuries.

Another note, in attempts per game: Yao is 27 (5.8 per game) , Big Al is 37 (5.0 per game), Gasol is 31 (5.4 per game) and they all play closer ot the basket then Bosh ...

[Lionel Messi]

He is an effective offensive flopper. Perhaps the best power forward flopper ever.

Again, I know he does get contact, but he sells it pretty good too, as though he's been shot from the nosebleed seats.

think your exaggerating a bit there

he sells it about the same as everyone else who plays that style

As was mentioned by reck0n3r name one other power forward that sounds more like a tennis player hitting the ball than a basketball player everytime he drives the lane. I can't. I also find that he doesn't finish for the "and 1" near as many times as other players who play that style. I'm not knocking Chris, but IMO he is the best Power Forward OFFENSIVE Flopper of all time.

Pau, Pau is worse...Pau yell whenever someone reaches, goes near him, touches him, or whenever he misses.

Sounds like a gorilla.

Also, name another power forward that attacks the basket as often as bosh.

Another thing, Bosh gets contact, he just embelishes to make sure he gets the refs attention.

[Shaazzam]

scrap, I've got no problem if I ask a question and someone says "no, that's not the sole reason actually." That's kind of the point of asking the question.

As for context

You guys will just never get it....
As long as Chris Bosh - the only big man in the league who can actually drive - is satisfied being mainly a jumpshooter, and not #1 in knocking other bigs out of the game with foul trouble (same applies to Bargnani), this team is going nowhere.

[Yuri Vaultin]

Another thing, Bosh gets contact, he just embelishes to make sure he gets the refs attention.

And that has been my point all along. He embelishes, which in my eyes is an offensive flop. At no point have I "hated" on Bosh, I've simply stated that he sells contact moreso and better than any other Big. He learned early on that he won't get the whistles unless he makes the refs blow the whistle - he forces them to make the call. He is an effective player, especially when he gets opposing bigs in trouble.

[Reignman]

Bosh tends to drive the ball with the intention of getting the foul while I've seen Amare drive the ball with the intention of tearing the rim off the backboard.

That might be what some are trying to get at?

Either way, I have no problem with Bosh's style. He will most likely have to make adjustments in the playoffs when the refs seem to be conservative with the whistle, but I'm sure he'll get over that hump as well.

[J-Roc]

You guys will just never get it. Would Dwight Howard be satisfied if he was #5 in the league in rebounds? No, because he has the skillset to be #1. And he knows that if he's not #1 in that stat, then he's not being as effect as he should be for his team.

As long as Chris Bosh - the only big man in the league who can actually drive - is satisfied being mainly a jumpshooter, and not #1 in knocking other bigs out of the game with foul trouble (same applies to Bargnani), this team is going nowhere.

More importantly, Bosh absolutely needs to add some real low post moves to his game if he wants to continue drawing fouls. Right now, he solely relies on his quickness advantage over other plodding bigs. His first step. That WILL go. If he wants to be a jumpshooter, then fine, he needs to hit his shots as well as Dirk. Otherwise, he needs to get more inside moves goin and he needs to practice his bank shots.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Fr ... ll%20Teams

Look at the top 20, the only big men in there are:

1. Dwight Howard - 854 attempts 59.4% - 10.8 attempts per game
5. Chris Bosh - 599 attempts 81.8% - 8 attempts per game
9. Dirk Nowitzki - 522 attempts - 89.1% - 6.6 attempts per game
13/14. Shaq - 499 attempts - 60.3% - 6.8 attempts per game
16. Tim Duncan - 468 attempts - 69.2% - 6.4 attempts per game
19. Antwan Jamison - 450 attempts - 75.3% - 5.6 attempts per game

As you can see, Bosh attempted the 2nd most free throws but also had the 2nd highest rate per game. Note there are only 6 PF/C in the top 20 at drawring free throw and note BOSH IS SECOND!

Now how much does each produce from the free throw line? Simple formula - percent x attempts

D12 - 6.4 pts per game
CB4 - 6.5 pts per game
Dirk - 5.9 pts per game
Shaq - 4.1 pts per game
Duncan - 4.4 pts per game
Antwan - 4.2 pts per game

What does this tell you? Well its flawed in many ways but Bosh produces as many pts from the free throw line as D12. Note the compeition , D12 and Shaq are HUGE literally, unstoppable in the post and get a lot of free throws just because of there presense alone. Dirk doesn't attempt as many but hemakes up for it with superb shooting (close to 90%). Duncan and Jamison both average 2 pts less then Bosh.

So would one say Bosh is the best big between a balance of hitting his free throws and getting there? I would atlesat say he is top 2 ...

Notes about Bosh, his body isnt designed for him to constantly take a beating and keep going to the line, yet he still manages! If he kepts driving like you and Leo would want him to, he would be more susceptible to injuries.

Another note, in attempts per game: Yao is 27 (5.8 per game) , Big Al is 37 (5.0 per game), Gasol is 31 (5.4 per game) and they all play closer ot the basket then Bosh ...

Stats never mean much to me, though I always do appreciate your effort. I watch the games. And when we NEED Bosh to drive, he takes jumpshots. And it would be cool if he'd hit every open J, but he doesn't. Defenders sag off him and dare him to shoot. If defender did that to Dirk, Dirk would hit the shot. Bosh isn't THAT good a shooter.

To combat that, Bosh needs to work on ways to go to the rim even when the defender sags off him. That means legit post moves. His face-up drive is best used when the defender crowds him. The face-up drive with the reverse can be awkward and he really needs to be wary of held D.

If a guy sags off him, he needs to immediately turn around and back his man down. But to do that, he needs post moves. The baby hook right now is only used when he initially posts up down low, which is rare.

Hey, if Bosh is what he is and can't get better, and you're all happy with his stats, then fine, we know what we have. A scoring big man with limited D. I don't think what he is now is worth a max contract to us. We already have a scoring bigman who will be cheaper for a few more years. We need to put top dollar into a wing player.

OTOH, if Bosh stops listening to you guys and rather listens to me and decides he needs to improve his game and the status quo isn't enough, then he could make himself worth max dollars to me.

[TheMainEvent]

I just figure Bosh gets to the line as often as he does because of his weak stature.

He gets a little bump, he falls to the side... he gets a slap on the wrist, his arm falls off.

[Eating a Book]

scrap, I've got no problem if I ask a question and someone says "no, that's not the sole reason actually." That's kind of the point of asking the question.

As for context

You guys will just never get it....
As long as Chris Bosh - the only big man in the league who can actually drive - is satisfied being mainly a jumpshooter, and not #1 in knocking other bigs out of the game with foul trouble (same applies to Bargnani), this team is going nowhere.

Fair enough. That's just so egregiously wrong that I figured it'd probably be tossed out. Given that Bosh is the only big man, save for Dwight "I can double-hammerfist anyone who is trying to stop me from getting a rebound and get away with it because, hey, I am Dwight Howard" Howard, who actually gets to the line and makes his free throws, I think it's hard to criticize Bosh for not being aggressive enough. Maybe he shies away at the wrong times - that's an argument I might be able to get behind - but to say he's not getting to the line enough and is "mainly a jumpshooter" is a pretty weak argument.

[J-Roc]

If the team was 31 - 49, yes.

It boggles my mind that fans are more interested in individual stats than a winning team. The winning team is for us, the fans. Individual stats are for contract negotiations for the player.

It boggles my mind that some fans are still ignorant to the fact that this is a team game. I could bring up the Garnett situation, but then again, that won't accomplish much to those who have tunnel vision. Keep it up, though.

The Garnett situation is he went to a team that was willing to go over the luxury tax.

[Eating a Book]

Stats never mean much to me, though I always do appreciate your effort. I watch the games. And when we NEED Bosh to drive, he takes jumpshots. And it would be cool if he'd hit every open J, but he doesn't. Defenders sag off him and dare him to shoot. If defender did that to Dirk, Dirk would hit the shot. Bosh isn't THAT good a shooter.

To combat that, Bosh needs to work on ways to go to the rim even when the defender sags off him. That means legit post moves. His face-up drive is best used when the defender crowds him. The face-up drive with the reverse can be awkward and he really needs to be wary of held D.

If a guy sags off him, he needs to immediately turn around and back his man down. But to do that, he needs post moves. The baby hook right now is only used when he initially posts up down low, which is rare.

Hey, if Bosh is what he is and can't get better, and you're all happy with his stats, then fine, we know what we have. A scoring big man with limited D. I don't think what he is now is worth a max contract to us. We already have a scoring bigman who will be cheaper for a few more years. We need to put top dollar into a wing player.

OTOH, if Bosh stops listening to you guys and rather listens to me and decides he needs to improve his game and the status quo isn't enough, then he could make himself worth max dollars to me.

It's fine if you're wanting to argue that Bosh takes ill-timed jumpers, but your posts above stated that he was "mainly a jumpshooter." If you're gonna make statements like that, don't just turn your nose up at the stats that say otherwise (and the stats, for an argument like that, really do matter, whether you want them to or not). Don't just change your argument.

[timdunkit]

Stats never mean much to me, though I always do appreciate your effort. I watch the games. And when we NEED Bosh to drive, he takes jumpshots. And it would be cool if he'd hit every open J, but he doesn't. Defenders sag off him and dare him to shoot. If defender did that to Dirk, Dirk would hit the shot. Bosh isn't THAT good a shooter.

To combat that, Bosh needs to work on ways to go to the rim even when the defender sags off him. That means legit post moves. His face-up drive is best used when the defender crowds him. The face-up drive with the reverse can be awkward and he really needs to be wary of held D.

If a guy sags off him, he needs to immediately turn around and back his man down. But to do that, he needs post moves. The baby hook right now is only used when he initially posts up down low, which is rare.

Hey, if Bosh is what he is and can't get better, and you're all happy with his stats, then fine, we know what we have. A scoring big man with limited D. I don't think what he is now is worth a max contract to us. We already have a scoring bigman who will be cheaper for a few more years. We need to put top dollar into a wing player.

OTOH, if Bosh stops listening to you guys and rather listens to me and decides he needs to improve his game and the status quo isn't enough, then he could make himself worth max dollars to me.

So basically, he has to shoot the ball when his defender sags of him, drive when there is a lane for him, and have an aresenal of post moves to go with it? Is there a big man in the league that can do all those things consistently every night and produce as much as Bosh ...

Bosh ain't as a good shooter as Dirk but hes one of the best big man from that 10-15 ft range ... you don't post someone from 15 ft out the net, how close are you going to get to the net been 235 pounds and then having to do this consistently? Bosh doesn't have the body to constantly fight in the post but he should do it more often ... and this is all without factoring the ENERGY factor

OTOH , if Bosh listend to you he would be a) depressed because he aint good enough or b) tell you to shut up after 10 seconds. He doesn't need you to tell him he is worth max dollars, there are about 18 GM's in the league who would give that to him gladly ...

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

I'm surprised; I thought he was shooting more mid range shot this season. This stat doesn't really tell me that he's wasn't, but it definitely points to his mid range game not really coming at the expense of his inside game. And his midrange shot was wet this year.

[Trax416]

People calling Bosh a flopper now?

He almost never goes down, and is always hit hard.

Go to a Raptors game you shut ins. Half the time when he gets hit you can hear the contact (often a slap), all around the arena.

[MacDaddy]

There are a lot of bitches on this board that will be crying out the other side of their faces when Bosh inevitably leaves and you get 35mpg of Bargnani dealing with double teams as our main frontcourt player.

[ansoncarter]

bosh gets calls by beating his man and giving them no option but foul him. Not by waving his arms around

[Eating a Book]

People calling Bosh a flopper now?

He almost never goes down, and is always hit hard.

Go to a Raptors game you shut ins. Half the time when he gets hit you can hear the contact (often a slap), all around the arena.

It might just be your avatar, but you seem excessively angry. The argument wasn't that Bosh fakes the contact completely, it was that he embellishes it pretty well. And he does.

I don't live in TO, but I could send someone over to pet you or something if there's some anxiety kicking in or something.