Chris Bosh breaks own record

[J-Roc]

It's fine if you're wanting to argue that Bosh takes ill-timed jumpers, but your posts above stated that he was "mainly a jumpshooter." If you're gonna make statements like that, don't just turn your nose up at the stats that say otherwise (and the stats, for an argument like that, really do matter, whether you want them to or not). Don't just change your argument.

I do consider him to be a jumpshooting big man. Unlike, say, Al Jefferson who I consider a post-up guy. Maybe you guys have stats that say Bosh is a post-up guy, but then it may just be semantics.

I recall the VC days, where VC would be more of a jumpshooter than a slasher, IMO. Stats don't talk enough about game situations. About when a mismatch is available, or if the defender is in foul trouble. Or if the team is in the bonus.

At the height of the VC era, this team was good, but not great. To make that next step, we would need a guy like VC to play smarter ball. I believe that even if this team was surrounded by better players, it would hurt us in big games if Bosh's shot selection was the same as it is now. Of course, that's a gross generalization, because if this team had 5 allstars, then it wouldn't matter. But if Bosh was the main man, then he would be getting those big shots at key times. And we would need him to take better shots.....IMO.

[MacDaddy]

The argument wasn't that Bosh fakes the contact completely, it was that he embellishes it pretty well. And he does.

So did Charles Oakley, it's a skill. I think I recall him saying something in an interview along the lines of "anytime I miss it's cause I got fouled, anytime I don't miss I still got fouled...."

[J-Roc]

There are a lot of bitches on this board that will be crying out the other side of their faces when Bosh inevitably leaves and you get 35mpg of Bargnani dealing with double teams as our main frontcourt player.

We'd be lucky if Bargnani ever commanded a double team.

Anyways, recall in the VC era our main frontcourt player was Antonio Davis. And look at a playoff team like Philly. Dalembert and Young? Bigs don't always need to command doubles.

[Eating a Book]

It's fine if you're wanting to argue that Bosh takes ill-timed jumpers, but your posts above stated that he was "mainly a jumpshooter." If you're gonna make statements like that, don't just turn your nose up at the stats that say otherwise (and the stats, for an argument like that, really do matter, whether you want them to or not). Don't just change your argument.

I do consider him to be a jumpshooting big man. Unlike, say, Al Jefferson who I consider a post-up guy. Maybe you guys have stats that say Bosh is a post-up guy, but then it may just be semantics.

I recall the VC days, where VC would be more of a jumpshooter than a slasher, IMO. Stats don't talk enough about game situations. About when a mismatch is available, or if the defender is in foul trouble. Or if the team is in the bonus.

At the height of the VC era, this team was good, but not great. To make that next step, we would need a guy like VC to play smarter ball. I believe that even if this team was surrounded by better players, it would hurt us in big games if Bosh's shot selection was the same as it is now. Of course, that's a gross generalization, because if this team had 5 allstars, then it wouldn't matter. But if Bosh was the main man, then he would be getting those big shots at key times. And we would need him to take better shots.....IMO.

I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore. You were concerned originally about him not being aggressive enough, getting other big guys into foul trouble. And now you're saying you're just concerned about him being a jumpshooter, when Bosh gets to the line at almost twice the rate Jefferson does. Bosh gets opposing bigs into way more foul trouble than Big Al. And, despite being a jumpshooter, is a more efficient offensive option (4% higher TS%).

But you don't like stats, so that's okay.

ps: please don't go thinking I want to give Bosh a max contract, because I think that's where you will go next. I don't want that.

[KRANG]

There are a lot of bitches on this board that will be crying out the other side of their faces when Bosh inevitably leaves and you get 35mpg of Bargnani dealing with double teams as our main frontcourt player.

AMEN !!!

Well said.

[timdunkit]

It's fine if you're wanting to argue that Bosh takes ill-timed jumpers, but your posts above stated that he was "mainly a jumpshooter." If you're gonna make statements like that, don't just turn your nose up at the stats that say otherwise (and the stats, for an argument like that, really do matter, whether you want them to or not). Don't just change your argument.

I do consider him to be a jumpshooting big man. Unlike, say, Al Jefferson who I consider a post-up guy. Maybe you guys have stats that say Bosh is a post-up guy, but then it may just be semantics.

I recall the VC days, where VC would be more of a jumpshooter than a slasher, IMO. Stats don't talk enough about game situations. About when a mismatch is available, or if the defender is in foul trouble. Or if the team is in the bonus.

At the height of the VC era, this team was good, but not great. To make that next step, we would need a guy like VC to play smarter ball. I believe that even if this team was surrounded by better players, it would hurt us in big games if Bosh's shot selection was the same as it is now. Of course, that's a gross generalization, because if this team had 5 allstars, then it wouldn't matter. But if Bosh was the main man, then he would be getting those big shots at key times. And we would need him to take better shots.....IMO.

I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore. You were concerned originally about him not being aggressive enough, getting other big guys into foul trouble. And now you're saying you're just concerned about him being a jumpshooter, when Bosh gets to the line at almost twice the rate Jefferson does. Bosh gets opposing bigs into way more foul trouble than Big Al. And, despite being a jumpshooter, is a more efficient offensive option (4% higher TS%).

But you don't like stats, so that's okay.

ps: please don't go thinking I want to give Bosh a max contract, because I think that's where you will go next. I don't want that. But I accept the reality that in the NBA world/market, Bosh will get the max.

Fixed*

[Eating a Book]

Well, I assume that. I'm just hoping it's from another team.

[RapsGM]

I agree, biggest offensive flopper. Some of the weak contact seen on Bosh is called that would not be called against anyone else.

LOL, have you guys not seen Wade, Kobe or Lebron play? They dont even get any contact and we have a call going for them.

[ponder276]

Bosh gets to the line a lot because he's lightning quick, looks to drive regularly, and once he gets by his man he's too tall/long to stop at the rim without fouling. Sure he embellishes when he gets hit to make sure he gets the call, but EVERYONE does this. His ability to draw contact is probably the best part of his game, not sure why people are actually criticizing him for it in this thread.

[dinosaur_dan]

Looking at a list of top power forwards in the NBA, Bosh's jumpshooting rate is very normal.

From 82games.com, the percentage of each player's shots that are classified as jumpshots:

Amare Stoudemire - 53%
Chris Bosh - 58%
Carlos Boozer - 54%
David West - 65%
Tim Duncan - 55%
Pau Gasol - 35%

So he's no more jumpshooty than other premiere NBA 4's.

[MacDaddy]

I do consider him to be a jumpshooting big man. Unlike, say, Al Jefferson who I consider a post-up guy. Maybe you guys have stats that say Bosh is a post-up guy, but then it may just be semantics.

I have stats that say "who cares?"

Chris Bosh's shooting % and true shooting % (accounting for FT and 3FG) for the last 3 seasons:
.496 .577
.494 .588
.490 .571

Al Jefferson's shooting % and true shooting % for the last 3 seasons:
.514 .547
.500 .535
.497 .532


So the "post player" is shooting a slightly better fg% but when you roll in the increased attempts and conversions that Bosh gets from the free throw line he is a more efficient scorer. Since you get 2 points whether you put the ball in the basket from 12 feet or 2 feet, I'd say "who cares?"...

[MacDaddy]

There are a lot of bitches on this board that will be crying out the other side of their faces when Bosh inevitably leaves and you get 35mpg of Bargnani dealing with double teams as our main frontcourt player.

We'd be lucky if Bargnani ever commanded a double team.

Anyways, recall in the VC era our main frontcourt player was Antonio Davis. And look at a playoff team like Philly. Dalembert and Young? Bigs don't always need to command doubles.

"Command" a double team? It's irrelevant, if Bargnani is the main scoring option on this team opposing teams will double him.

[gangstaff]

There are a lot of bitches on this board that will be crying out the other side of their faces when Bosh inevitably leaves and you get 35mpg of Bargnani dealing with double teams as our main frontcourt player.

[O'DEAN_MAGNUM]

Bosh's ability to get to the free throw line is very impressive

Next to Dwight Howard, he's the best Big at getting to the line

elite status I'd say

[Fats Elmore]

Way to be CB. Love this part of his game. Though I have to say I'm very worried about how long this type of production will last. Especially after a bunch of deep post season runs. Probably something I shouldn't worry about but I do.

[SuigintouEV]

bosh is very good at attacking the rim and getting the call, but those scenarios only happen 1 on 1, against mediocre and bad defenders.

Against good defenders like varejao and KG, bosh does settle for jumpers a lot more, and he tends not to make them either. But that's not the issue:

the issue is that against defenses locked in on him, he as a slashing big man is not someone who can drive and kick... which is what the best outside-in offenses are all about. Nor is he a high post passer a la webber. Passing is his flaw offensively. And he's not a post-scorer either, where the pass can be made more methodically. Finally he doesn't have much of a pull up jumper, IE if he's driving to the rim, whereas a guard will be able to recognize a shot blocker and pull up (arenas, wade and kobe are especially good at this), bosh will keep going and often gets stripped or blocked or misses badly. The problem isn't that he doesn' t have a guard skillset, no one expects a big man to have a guard skillset. It's that he's got a guard's game without a guard's skillset. See also: Corey Maggette. If bosh is going to shoot the jumper, he likes to shoot it before he makes his move, it's just not in his game to shoot the jumper after freezing his man, at most he'll rely on his jab steps. FINALLY, CB4 is dependant on getting bail-out calls when he messes up.

As for toughness: Bosh's lack of toughness is more apparent when he fails to box out his man and his man gets an open rebound. He's consistently been a bad rebounder, funny enough our best rebounding year with him came when he was averaging like 8 or 9 a game, IE when he wasn't expected to be our primary source of rebounding (it was a true team effort in 06/07).

[O'DEAN_MAGNUM]

bosh is very good at attacking the rim and getting the call, but those scenarios only happen 1 on 1, against mediocre and bad defenders.

Against good defenders like varejao and KG, bosh does settle for jumpers a lot more, and he tends not to make them either. But that's not the issue:

the issue is that against defenses locked in on him, he as a slashing big man is not someone who can drive and kick... which is what the best outside-in offenses are all about. Nor is he a high post passer a la webber. Passing is his flaw offensively. And he's not a post-scorer either, where the pass can be made more methodically. Finally he doesn't have much of a pull up jumper, IE if he's driving to the rim, whereas a guard will be able to recognize a shot blocker and pull up (arenas, wade and kobe are especially good at this), bosh will keep going and often gets stripped or blocked or misses badly. The problem isn't that he doesn' t have a guard skillset, no one expects a big man to have a guard skillset. It's that he's got a guard's game without a guard's skillset. See also: Corey Maggette. If bosh is going to shoot the jumper, he likes to shoot it before he makes his move, it's just not in his game to shoot the jumper after freezing his man, at most he'll rely on his jab steps. FINALLY, CB4 is dependant on getting bail-out calls when he messes up.

As for toughness: Bosh's lack of toughness is more apparent when he fails to box out his man and his man gets an open rebound. He's consistently been a bad rebounder, funny enough our best rebounding year with him came when he was averaging like 8 or 9 a game, IE when he wasn't expected to be our primary source of rebounding (it was a true team effort in 06/07).

You must of misread the title of the thread,

It's actually not the pointless rambling Bosh hating thread......honest mistake, I understand

[The_Hater]

read more here

Okay, so we all know that Chris Bosh doesn’t drive the ball often enough and never attacks the basket and he’s a soft jump-shooting big man, he said with dripping sarcasm.

...

But those are impressive numbers even to me. And really ought to silence some of the critics, shouldn’t they? They won’t, of course. But they should.

I wonder if the sarcastic quip by Smith was a shot at Leo?

Nothing more irritating than Leo continually stating that CB should have gone to the rack after he misses a wide open jumper.

[Pchu]

read more here

Okay, so we all know that Chris Bosh doesn’t drive the ball often enough and never attacks the basket and he’s a soft jump-shooting big man, he said with dripping sarcasm.

...

But those are impressive numbers even to me. And really ought to silence some of the critics, shouldn’t they? They won’t, of course. But they should.

I wonder if the sarcastic quip by Smith was a shot at Leo?

Nothing more irritating than Leo continually stating that CB should have gone to the rack after he misses a wide open jumper.

What's worse is if Bosh made that jumper, he would say something like 'how tough is Bosh, he can hit a jumper and get to the paint'

[Mustard_Tiger]

I've never once knocked Bosh's offensive game (except in the clutch). He's a very good, efficient offensive player. The problems for him lie on the other end of the court.