Draft Countdown: Terrence Williams

[Anatomize]

I can see Minnesota selling one of their picks they have 3 in this draft. top 5 . 18 . and 28. They already have craploads of young guys 3 more in this draft doesn't seem reasonable.

Phoenix will try and save money and cut costs everywhere. Sarver is really cheap. But will he sell it to Brian? Might not do it out of personal spite. BC might have to do a bit of persuading to get the Suns to give up their # 14 .

New Orleans is a candidate to sell their 21st pick they are bleeding money and trying to shed salary. 3 mil would be a nice pick me up .

I think Minnesota and their 18th is a prime candidate

I just wanted to mention back to another thread where we debated drafting BPA and drafting need, and I had time to contemplate both of our views.

I think we're both right, you want to draft the BPA, but I think you have to cover a team need at the same time, meaning, draft the BPA available at a position that you're seeking help at.

What got me stirred during our last debate is when you stated that we should draft the BPA regardless of position (as to be used as an asset), and I feel that the draft is a place where you can fill a hole/gap in your team without having to over spend on a highly touted free agent.

[CPT]

For starters, we probably aren't buying a pick. If we do, I think it will have little to nothing to do with the cash we picked up in the trade.

I wouldn't be thrilled about taking him at 9, but I think he'll be gone before any of the picks we could potentially buy anyway, and this draft is pretty even after the top tier, maybe 2. The only wings I can say I would definitely want more than him are Harden and DeRozan. For me, he's in the same league as guys like Evans and Henderson (probably below Evans, but ahead of Henderson, IMO). So if those top two guys are gone (they likely will be, along with Evans), then I'd probably be alright with taking him.

[CPT]

I see the BPA argument like this.

You want to break the draft into tiers.

You should pick any guy in tier 1 over any guy in tier 2. But if only tier 2 guys are left, you might as well get one that fits in with your team.

[TiKusDom]

For starters, we probably aren't buying a pick. If we do, I think it will have little to nothing to do with the cash we picked up in the trade.

I wouldn't be thrilled about taking him at 9, but I think he'll be gone before any of the picks we could potentially buy anyway, and this draft is pretty even after the top tier, maybe 2. The only wings I can say I would definitely want more than him are Harden and DeRozan. For me, he's in the same league as guys like Evans and Henderson (probably below Evans, but ahead of Henderson, IMO). So if those top two guys are gone (they likely will be, along with Evans), then I'd probably be alright with taking him.

Yes I agree with your sentiments right there, pretty much spot on.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I can see Minnesota selling one of their picks they have 3 in this draft. top 5 . 18 . and 28. They already have craploads of young guys 3 more in this draft doesn't seem reasonable.

Phoenix will try and save money and cut costs everywhere. Sarver is really cheap. But will he sell it to Brian? Might not do it out of personal spite. BC might have to do a bit of persuading to get the Suns to give up their # 14 .

New Orleans is a candidate to sell their 21st pick they are bleeding money and trying to shed salary. 3 mil would be a nice pick me up .

I think Minnesota and their 18th is a prime candidate

I just wanted to mention back to another thread where we debated drafting BPA and drafting need, and I had time to contemplate both of our views.

I think we're both right, you want to draft the BPA, but I think you have to cover a team need at the same time, meaning, draft the BPA available at a position that you're seeking help at.

What got me stirred during our last debate is when you stated that we should draft the BPA regardless of position (as to be used as an asset), and I feel that the draft is a place where you can fill a hole/gap in your team without having to over spend on a highly touted free agent.

I agree. The BPA argument has to be tempered with common sense. The problem with the NBA is that they really struggle to develop players. The NBDL is a joke, and there are very few success stories. So, if you draft BPA, you run the risk of the draftee stagnating in the depth chart. It's not like in other sports where they just go to the minors and get reps and rebuild their confidence. Here they just sit, travel and practice. Or, they play heavy minutes in a losing environment and pick up a bunch of bad habits. It's a complete waste of a young body, especially in a sport based on athleticism where players go downhill around 30.

[flipside21]

Honestly I wouldn't Williams at ALL with the #9, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's off the board around picks 9 - 12. This guy has all the traits of those guys who tend to go earlier than projected - honestly, if this guy was a sophomore right now he'd be projected top 10 - but he's a young senior at 21 - is it really that much of a difference?

If Evans, DeRozan and Harden are off the board then this is my guy.

He's not going to be a superstar - but he's going to be a solid piece on a good team. And in all honesty, what are the chances of our hitting home run versus a strike out at #9 in a weak draft?

[Anatomize]

Honestly I wouldn't Williams at ALL with the #9, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's off the board around picks 9 - 12. This guy has all the traits of those guys who tend to go earlier than projected - honestly, if this guy was a sophomore right now he'd be projected top 10 - but he's a young senior at 21 - is it really that much of a difference?

If Evans, DeRozan and Harden are off the board then this is my guy.

He's not going to be a superstar - but he's going to be a solid piece on a good team. And in all honesty, what are the chances of our hitting home run versus a strike out at #9 in a weak draft?

Exactly, which is why I feel we need to find the BEST fit for our team, not necessarily the absolute best player. While I see DeRozan's upside, he doesn't necessarily fit what the Raptors are trying to do at the wing spot, I see T-Will having all those intangibles which would make us into a tough, winning team, the type of energy which is contagious amongst the rest of our players, and makes opposing teams scared to face us (as used to be whenever the Raps faced the Billups-Pistons, I just knew we were in for a loss).

I would rather avoid trying to groom a young project (like a DeRozan, or Evans) behind our veteran players, and bring in a guy who's going to instantly contribute to a winning team, and not sit around waiting for minutes.

[tkim01]

Hi all,

as shown by my post count, i'm not a regular poster (yet a long time reader) - however the one post i did make was in regards to Terrence Williams and the potential he possesses. I have seen him in Louisville for a couple of years now, and while his game is still very inconsistent and offensively limited, I was astounded by the two characteristics he has shown in his game - playmaking abilities and his prototypical 2-guard body. On the majority, the Louisville offense seemed to be at its max efficiency when Terrence was the main playmaker (although he has shown on numerous occasions that he can disappear at times). I recall a play in his junior year when he made a behind the head pass to a trailer - it seemed too fluid and effortless to go unnoticed. Secondly, even going back to his highschool days, he possesses a very strong frame that'd be ideal for the 2. Combined with his great athleticism and defence/rebounding skills, this is a trait that the raptors need dearly.

Let's face it - NBA is a league where individual play is still valued highly than any other professional basketball league. In addition, the successful late picks in the previous drafts (Arenas, Redd as an example) all had the ability to thrive in a less - structured NBA game as opposed to college, where coaches ran a more rigid system.

I realistically assumed that prior to the past season, our draft slot would be somewhere in the teens (like most of us, I believed we were playoff bound). While the argument that the 9th pick is too high for a player like Terrence, he seems to be a prospect that I'd hate to give up on.

[Anatomize]

I can see Minnesota selling one of their picks they have 3 in this draft. top 5 . 18 . and 28. They already have craploads of young guys 3 more in this draft doesn't seem reasonable.

Phoenix will try and save money and cut costs everywhere. Sarver is really cheap. But will he sell it to Brian? Might not do it out of personal spite. BC might have to do a bit of persuading to get the Suns to give up their # 14 .

New Orleans is a candidate to sell their 21st pick they are bleeding money and trying to shed salary. 3 mil would be a nice pick me up .

I think Minnesota and their 18th is a prime candidate

I just wanted to mention back to another thread where we debated drafting BPA and drafting need, and I had time to contemplate both of our views.

I think we're both right, you want to draft the BPA, but I think you have to cover a team need at the same time, meaning, draft the BPA available at a position that you're seeking help at.

What got me stirred during our last debate is when you stated that we should draft the BPA regardless of position (as to be used as an asset), and I feel that the draft is a place where you can fill a hole/gap in your team without having to over spend on a highly touted free agent.

I agree. The BPA argument has to be tempered with common sense. The problem with the NBA is that they really struggle to develop players. The NBDL is a joke, and there are very few success stories. So, if you draft BPA, you run the risk of the draftee stagnating in the depth chart. It's not like in other sports where they just go to the minors and get reps and rebuild their confidence. Here they just sit, travel and practice. Or, they play heavy minutes in a losing environment and pick up a bunch of bad habits. It's a complete waste of a young body, especially in a sport based on athleticism where players go downhill around 30.

Very reminiscent of Gerald Green's struggles.

I saw him yesterday in garbage time vs the Nuggets at the freethrow line, he was dribbling the ball with ferocity and anger, he looked really dissatisfied with Carlisle's decision to not play him at all when it mattered.

This is something I'd like to avoid for the Raptors.

[Kevin Willis]

Hi all,

as shown by my post count, i'm not a regular poster (yet a long time reader) - however the one post i did make was in regards to Terrence Williams and the potential he possesses. I have seen him in Louisville for a couple of years now, and while his game is still very inconsistent and offensively limited, I was astounded by the two characteristics he has shown in his game - playmaking abilities and his prototypical 2-guard body. On the majority, the Louisville offense seemed to be at its max efficiency when Terrence was the main playmaker (although he has shown on numerous occasions that he can disappear at times). I recall a play in his junior year when he made a behind the head pass to a trailer - it seemed too fluid and effortless to go unnoticed. Secondly, even going back to his highschool days, he possesses a very strong frame that'd be ideal for the 2. Combined with his great athleticism and defence/rebounding skills, this is a trait that the raptors need dearly.

Let's face it - NBA is a league where individual play is still valued highly than any other professional basketball league. In addition, the successful late picks in the previous drafts (Arenas, Redd as an example) all had the ability to thrive in a less - structured NBA game as opposed to college, where coaches ran a more rigid system.

I realistically assumed that prior to the past season, our draft slot would be somewhere in the teens (like most of us, I believed we were playoff bound). While the argument that the 9th pick is too high for a player like Terrence, he seems to be a prospect that I'd hate to give up on.

tkim1, since you've followed Louisville can you comment on Earl Clark as well and how they compare to each other as prospects. How good are they together or is their a relationship? Either one is a potential candidate for the raptors and it would be nice to get insight on them both. Thanx.

[223red]

Hi all,
... the one post i did make was in regards to Terrence Williams and the potential he possesses. I have seen him in Louisville for a couple of years now, ... I recall a play in his junior year ... even going back to his highschool days...

Welcome to the board, Terrence.

[Spartan13]

Cmon guys. Your telling me you dont want this on our team?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTxdRI57 ... re=related

WHO DOESNT WANT THAT ON OUR TEAM?!?!?

[sleezy101]

My top five for who we should draft looks like this:
1. James Harden
2. Tyreke Evans
3. Demar Derozan
4. Brandon Jennings
5. Terrence Williams
Williams will be the ideal choice because the four above him will most likely be gone if we stay at the 9th pick.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Terrence Williams seems like the perfect fit for this team when you think about it. Bargnani, Calderon, and a guy like Marion can play off of Williams because of his great playmaking ability. And then on the other end, he can guard PGs and SGs AND SFs...I mean, he's literally a jack of all trades type player. We need a guy like him...so, I wouldn't mind if Williams is taken at 9, although that might be a little too high for him.

[sleezy101]

Yeah I woud not mind him either ^

[JYD]

I see the BPA argument like this.

You want to break the draft into tiers.

You should pick any guy in tier 1 over any guy in tier 2. But if only tier 2 guys are left, you might as well get one that fits in with your team.

Yep, agreed. Last month almost everybody was saying how they'd love T-Will but not with our pick, no way. Now it seems like people are coming around to the fact that this draft has a 2/3 player top tier (if you want to include Harden) and everything from 4-end of the lotto is basically a crapshoot. Some guys have more potential, and some guys are a better fit.

Of all those guys, I'd say T-will doesn't have the best potential, but I'd argue he's one of the most NBA ready and he's the best fit for us. He can guard 2, maybe even 3 positions, he can pass and rebound, his outside shot is improving, and very importantly you know he's not a black hole and will be easy for Triano (or anyone else) to give significant mins to from day 1.

[Dennis P]

Calling T-Will an "Excellent rebounder" is doing him a terrible disservice. Call him the *best* rebounding wing in years is more like it. His 8.6 per game is huge considering he played with a good front court!

Supersub15's adjusted stats has Terrence Williams 9.0 per game, and he mentions that "...the best rebounding guard in the NBA (per 36 miuntes) is Jason Kidd at 6.5, followed by Iguodala at 5.7."

I don't see why T-Will couldn't managed a similar transition to AI; who averaged 8.4 for Arizona. The only other comparison I could think of was Shawn Marion - averaged 9.3 at UNLV, now averages 8.5 in the NBA. Both guys rebounding skills transitioned very well.

Don't forget his 5 assists per game either, another great stat. I'm not saying the guy doesn't have big holes in his game, just that we have to remember that things he does well he does significantly better then most prospects.

Excellent point. The more I learn about this guy the more I think he is a strong candidate to be a Raptor next season.

[Dennis P]

Calling T-Will an "Excellent rebounder" is doing him a terrible disservice. Call him the *best* rebounding wing in years is more like it. His 8.6 per game is huge considering he played with a good front court!

Supersub15's adjusted stats has Terrence Williams 9.0 per game:
"..the best rebounding guard in the NBA (per 36 miuntes) is Jason Kidd at 6.5, followed by Iguodala at 5.7."

I don't see why T-Will couldn't managed a similar transition to AI; who averaged 8.4 for Arizona. The only other comparison I could think of was Shawn Marion - averaged 9.3 at UNLV, now averages 8.5 in the NBA. Both guys rebounding skills transitioned very well.

Don't forget his 5 assists per game either, another great stat.

My issue though is that we've improved tremendously rebounding-wise with the addition Pops and Marion. I don't want us to draft somebody just because he rebounds well. Renaldo Balkman is a good rebounder too... but not much else. If he doesn't improve his shot...

Mind you, I'd cry tears of joy if we can pick him with a second 1st-round pick.

What's the chances Marion actually stays here for 09? I say 0 and none.

Williams is more than just a rebounder too he plays great defense and we sorely need a perimeter defender.

Again I can't say 9 but I wouldn't be completely destroyed if it happened either.

[Dennis P]

Question is, if we're filling a need here, why are we so bent on drafting him with a 2nd pick as opposed to the 1st one?

We've often seen players picked high because they were thought to be the best player available, and picks which were drafted later still had more successful NBA careers.

T-Will seems to fit everything our team is looking for at the SG spot, athleticism, tenacity, rebounding, defense, hustle, 3 point shooting, passing. You can't teach many of the intangibles T-will presents the Raptors with, he may become the most productive role player in this draft. Since we're also looking for immediate contribution, he may very well be the guy.

If we are not able to nab a 2nd pick, why are people against drafting a player who could very well make a difference in our win/loss column at the end of the year?

Time and time again, we see that teams with a winning formula possess athletes who can play defense, and play within their role. The Pistons the last few years possessed many of these types of players (McDyess, Maxiell, Hunter off the bench). The Nuggets are now showing a similar formula of athleticism and defensive tenacity (K-mart, JR smith, Nene).

I don't want to pass up a guy who can cement the Raptors as a tough team, and create doubt in opposing SGs due to his will to win just because 'he's not the best player at that draft position', he fits exactly what we need.

Can't argue that either I just think we have to wait and see who's actually on the board at 9. I think there is a lot of parity between 6-12

[BigBurd]

This is a bit of a re-post; but I thought i'd include these links here. Highlights from Louisville's run in the NCAA Tourney:

Moorhead (#16), 1:05 EC dribbling & passing on the run to T-will:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up01bNqql-M&NR=1

Arizona (#12), from 55 on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUfXHsXFNFk

Siena (#9): - from 1:20 on see T-Will board & EC dunk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGdYZGLE4Js

MSU (#2), T-will action from 45 on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2oqWNwOEu0

FWIW T-Will had a bad game by his standards against MSU's man defense, arguably a comment on is individual ability to play 1:1 in the half court whereas his BB-IQ and hustle seem to help him tear through zone defenses and open court situations.