Accept it, Toronto: You

chair4trees · Post #41 » by **chair4trees** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:45 pm

First off, the writer, like the vast majority of his countrymen, more than likely had to first check the atlas to see where Toronto was before he wrote.

In most respects he's correct in that the the majority of the people in the US just don't care what happens in the rest of the world. It's almost sad as this "centre of the universe" attitude is one of the reasons the US is crashing from once lofty heights. But I actually think he's bitter that the Raps have had such a great off season, all started by Hedo choosing TO over an American city.,,,musta been a tough pill to swallow...

Go Raps.

COY0607 · Post #42 » by **COY0607** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:49 pm

How many times were the Knicks on National TV last year?

Bankai · Post #43 » by **Bankai** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:51 pm

COY0607 wrote:
How many times were the Knicks on National TV last year?

Because New York is a small market city.. duh!

kooner · Post #44 » by **kooner** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:54 pm

Toronto is in the same conversation as LA, Boston, New york, as of big markets. We got a hockey team and b-ball team a baseball team and we are just waiting for the bills to move to Toronto. We got 3 pro teams and all of our teams ARE MAKING MONEY CAUSE WHERE IN A SMALL MARKET????

Post #45 » by **YogiStewart** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:56 pm

Superboy316KING wrote:
Homer Jay wrote:Honestly, Toronto's biggest handicap is the cold weather. It will always be an issue with some players.

It's not any colder here than it is in NY or chicago so that's a non issue

Toronto has 2 major handicaps:

1) its own lack of self-esteem
2) a generalized low IQ that afflicts most Americans

caliraptor · Post #46 » by **caliraptor** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:58 pm

wonder if austin burton knows that ESPN owns 20% of TSN...

Fine, the raptors don't get decent coverage in the US, but ESPN is still getting their coin with their investment in TSN.

It works similarly with soccer. ESPN lost rights to Champions League matches in the US, but they quickly snapped up Premier League matches in the UK and have a dedicated channel for that market. ESPN (or Disney for that matter) will find ways to make their coin in countries outside of the US. They don't necessarily need to show the Raptors on ABC/ESPN to generate revenue - that's where TSN comes in. (Let's not get started on TSN2 and low viewership compared to hockey and curling, but you get my original drift)

As for Turner Broadcasting, I guess they don't have a Canadian foothold.

MEDIC · Post #47 » by **MEDIC** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:03 pm

Not really sure what his point was. The only relevant point that I could possibly see is that for our potential market size, the fan base is not quite as big as some of the other cities that compare in size.

If that is his point, who cares. We have a solid market. The team is still new & the fan base is still growing.

Kind of a weird article.....awkward really......

The whole notion of a player can't be marketable in Toronto is complete BS as well. VC proved this theory wrong. He was the most popular NBA player for a period of time.

As for Bosh, I think he would have less popularity if he was playing in Milwaukee, GS, LAC, etc.

Toronto is a mid range market overall.

For some reason, these guys choose to ignore the attendance & overall profilability of the franchise in terms of where they rate in the league. Their basis is simply American TV exposure.

Who gives a sh*t about american exposure. We have no idea what level of exposure our athletes get in the US & it doesn't affect us as fans in any way. We get all the exposure we need right here. Why should we care?

Comical.

Marz · Post #48 » by **Marz** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:11 pm

MEDIC wrote:Not really sure what his point was. The only relevant point that I could possibly see is that for our potential market size, the fan base is not quite as big as some of the other cities that compare in size.

If that is his point, who cares. We have a solid market. The team is still new & the fan base is still growing.

Kind of a weird article.....awkward really......

The whole notion of a player can't be marketable in Toronto is complete BS as well. VC proved this theory wrong. He was the most popular NBA player for a period of time.

As for Bosh, I think he would have less popularity if he was playing in Milwaukee, GS, LAC, etc.

Toronto is a mid range market overall.

For some reason, these guys choose to ignore the attendance & overall profilability of the franchise in terms of where they rate in the league. Their basis is simply American TV exposure.

Who gives a sh*t about american exposure. We have no idea what level of exposure our athletes get in the US & it doesn't affect us as fans in any way. We get all the exposure we need right here. Why should we care?

Comical.

WHAT!!??! AMERICANS MUST KNOW ABOUT THE RAPTORS, THEY JUST MUST!! :evil:

Guy Smiley · Post #49 » by **Guy Smiley** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:11 pm

Vince Carter rulez! Bring him back.

mihaic · Post #50 » by **mihaic** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:13 pm

Guy Smiley wrote:Vince Carter rulez! Bring him back.

... to New Jersey?

Post #51 » by **gojoorange** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:14 pm

I actually saw Bigfoot on the corner of Broadway and Granville. Obviously he knows the better of the West Broadway's...

vancityballer · Post #52 » by **vancityballer** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:14 pm

Austin Burton? Who the hell is this guy? I would have to put him up as the "Milwaukee Bucks" of the sports writers world. He's as small market as they come.

I like it when writers add fuel to the fire, but we are burning up about a guy who is writing for Dime; the wannabe Slam. How's the circulation of that mag going? Looks soon to be out of a job, so he starts burnin' on the Canadians to garner more American "rah rah" behind him. Austin Burton=A$$*#le Burnin'

Post #53 » by **Alfred** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:15 pm

Ohhh, I get it now. It's a Dime Magazine article.

Rebel INS · Post #54 » by **Rebel INS** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:21 pm

I think he has a point. I wouldn't go so far as to call Toronto a small market on the level of Utah or Indy but in comparison to the actual size of the city, its NBA presence is definitely disproportionate.

Ultimately it doesn't matter, and he undermines his own argument by bringing up Utah. The Stockton/Malone Jazz or even the Kings from a few years back were infinitely more relevant on the NBA scene than New York has been over the last decade. Latrell Sprewell wasn't as famous as Chris Webber in their respective primes.

The Raps don't get publicity because even in the VC heyday, we weren't that much better than mediocre. Truly great teams will get showtime no matter where they play

JWiLL02 · Post #55 » by **JWiLL02** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:23 pm

Bosh isn't exactly a highlight reel player, save for a few huge dunks here and there. It's not like ESPN doesn't put them in their reels when he has one either. I don't see how playing for LA or NY would make much of a difference.

I mean what's the logic here? He acts as if the internet is bigger in LA or NY than it is in Toronto, I think we've proved otherwise.

Give me a break Burton, a hack writer for a 3rd rate basketball magazine.

Rapsfanatak · Post #56 » by **Rapsfanatak** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:24 pm

The fact that this guy followed Vince Carter while he was in Toronto negates his entire argument.

I recall many Toronto games airing on US networks while VC was here. But Bosh isn't Lebron or VC in his prime. Do you think US networks will be chasing down rights to air Bosh's games just because he was in a US city? I don't think so.

According to this guy, success is measured by the number of nationally televised games you appear in. With this philosophy this is how players would select a team, and not by quality of organization, their teammates, the city or the kind of contract they could obtain. With this philosophy, every player should just go to NY and LA (but not the Clippers...why?) and we should shut the other 28 teams down.

There are many ways to follow good players, with highlights available for every game played every day, discussions by analysts, All Star games and of course the internet and creative ways to use it. If this guy was right, I should never have heard of Kevin Durant, but I have.

Even in a big market, do you think Pau Gasol would be remembered fondly if the Lakers choked and flamed out during his tenure? Success is measured by winning. The better the player and the better their team, the more recognition they will get.

ZeriousLy · Post #57 » by **ZeriousLy** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:24 pm

DeMar will bring us at least 2 appearances on ESPN Top 10 Plays, every week.

caliraptor · Post #58 » by **caliraptor** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:30 pm

Just for interest's sake, here are ROAD attendance figures throughout Raptor history. Listed is the road attendance figure and league ranking in brackets, followed by the top three road draws of the season.

It's obvious that star players draw attendance, like Jordan, Shaq, Iverson, and LeBron, even Carter's Raptors (1999-2002). More often than not, those teams were WINNING teams. Exception: 2001-2003 Washington Wizards. The Sacramento Kings were an example of an exciting team to watch and were not led just by one player (or a duo).

Interestingly enough, Dallas was only 22nd in road attendance last year...

1995-1996: 16508 (24) Chicago, Orlando, Lakers
1996-1997: 16560 (19) Chicago, Lakers, New York
1997-1998: 16571 (21) Chicago, Lakers, New York
1998-1999: 15799 (23) Lakers, Philadelphia, New York
1999-2000: 17724 (5) Lakers, New York, Sacramento
2000-2001: 17611 (5) Lakers, Philadelphia, Sacramento
2001-2002: 17200 (8) Lakers, Washington, Philadelphia
2002-2003: 16509 (15) Washington, Lakers, Philadelphia
2003-2004: 16480 (22) Lakers, Cleveland, Minnesota
2004-2005: 16677 (26) Miami, Lakers, Cleveland
2005-2006: 16595 (30) Miami, Lakers, Cleveland
2006-2007: 17347 (24) Miami, Cleveland, Lakers
2007-2008: 16653 (29) Boston, Lakers, Denver
2008-2009: 16785 (28) Lakers, Boston, Cleveland

toast · Post #59 » by **toast** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:33 pm

I was going to create a post on the general board but I will make my point here. One of the major myths is that a player will get more attention and hence publicity money playing in the major market of LA, NY, Chicago, and Miami (according to this dweeb), but there is absolutely no proof of this. In fact it could almost be proven that Toronto creates more recognition than almost any other argument.

The best case is with Vince Carter

Vince played 6 full seasons with us from 1998 to 2004, during that time
During that time the only time that he was not voted as a started to the All star game was in his rookie season. From 1999 to 2002 he was the leader vote getter in the NBA for the all star game. In 2003 and 2004 he was still voted a starter despite being injured a good deal during those seasons.

In 2005 he then moves to NJ (a suburb of NY, that Lebron wants to move to) He has been the healthiest he has ever been. He has put up remarkably similiar numbers to his time in Toronto and much better than 2003 and 2004 when he was voted as a starter into the all star game. In fact I honestly believe he is a better and far more complete player in NJ.

Yet he hasn't been voted into the all star game since he moved there. In fact I don't think he has made an all star game (correct me if I am wrong). If people could help me out with this, but I remember huge multinational ads with Vince and Nike during his time here, but he has kind of dropped off the map since then.

If this myth of needing to move to the states to get promotional dollars and recognition were actually true, don't you think the reverse of what actually happened would happen, and Vince would have blown up once he got back to the states.

If people could help me out with further facts about his promotional deals before and after the deal we could clearly debunk this myth. I don't want to e-mail this low life though, he is begging for attention and the best thing is to ignore him.

JWiLL02 · Post #60 » by **JWiLL02** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:41 pm

toast wrote:Yet he hasn't been voted into the all star game since he moved there. In fact I don't think he has made an all star game (correct me if I am wrong)

Wrong, very wrong. I believe last year was the first time he hasn't made the team since his rookie season. Either that or 07-08 was, but he was definitely there his first few years in NJ.

Not sure if he was voted in though. I think Wade stole that starting spot from him, makes sense.