*Updated* Turkoglu's usage rate is lowest in 5 years!

[redeye514]

If BC paid the man $60Mil to be a point forward, then Jay better use him as a point forward.



At the very least, like Scott Carefoot said earlier, allow Hedo to turn Jose into more of a scorer! Otherwise it just does more harm (defence) then good to have them both out there.

Jose can only be a scorer when he gets to handle the ball and choose his spots with the ball. He's not the type of guy who's gonna score off the ball. That's why he was putting up those 2 point games earlier this month when Hedo was getting those 5-6 assist games. Once Hedo stopped handling the rock as often, it dropped to 3-4 assist per game while Jose's stats went up again when he got to dominate the rock like he used to.

You're probably right, I only state that as a 'best of two evils' type scenario.

The truth is, neither Hedo or Jose compliment each other one bit. They both need to ball hawk in order to show their true talent, their play making ability. Unfortunately, a team does need two of those guys on the court at the same time. It's almost as bad, if not worse, when compared to how poorly Bosh and Bargs complement each other.

Individually, Bosh, Bargs, Hedo and Jose are really good NBA players in my opinion. But like every other player in the league, they have weaknesses. The fact that Bosh/Bargs and Jose/Hedo have a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses, which is just a stupid mix to have,and which is why I am preeching that one of each of those two pairs need be dealt.

[LLJ]

Well, Hedo is clearly the better player right now since he's still pretty productive despite not handling as much. Jose on the other hand goes down the toilet if his usage rate drops below his normal one.

[vivekmj10]

If BC paid the man $60Mil to be a point forward, then Jay better use him as a point forward.


Not only are our two best players soft PF's, but our 3rd and 4th best are no D players who both need the ball in there hands to truly highlight their skills.

This team is all about repetitiveness and has no balance.

At the very least, like Scott Carefoot said earlier, allow Hedo to turn Jose into more of a scorer! Otherwise it just does more harm (defence) then good to have them both out there.

Seriously? Have you watched Bosh play this season? soft is just about the last word I would use to describe his play this season

How many blocks or charges drawn does he have this season. How many hard fouls has he given in his career?

26 and 12 and a block a game and getting to the line 12 times a game...no clearly thats not enough..

[mcleex]

Our offence is like top 5 in the league. So I don't really care how much Hedo is being used on offense.

Defense on the other hand ...

[mcleex]

They should make basketball like hockey where you can do changes or subs on the fly.

Offensive line up score and run out ... defensive line up comes in and get a stop

[Double Helix]

I think many of us, myself included, have almost forgotten that Turk missed much of training camp playing with Jose so the fact that he and Jose were out of sync early on can probably and logically be attributed to that adjustment period.

I think Jose's realizing now that he has to be ready to shoot. You can see him heading to the corners sometimes now when he doesn't have the ball. He's not always running to the top of the circle to demand it right back.

I think they'll develop better chemistry as the season goes on. I also think Jose will adjust to shooting off the catch and hopefully regain some of his 3 point stroke. If that happens, we'll be even tougher offensively than we already are.

What happens when Jack plays like he can too off the bench? Should be fun to watch.

[LLJ]

How many blocks or charges drawn does he have this season. How many hard fouls has he given in his career?

26 and 12 and a block a game and getting to the line 12 times a game...no clearly thats not enough..

Ask yourself seriously though. How good is his defence really? Bear in mind we're 30th in the league by a wide margin so it's difficult to argue anyone as being good defensively. If Bosh was a good defender we'd be at least 27th. So does his bad defence take away half or more of the pluses in his boxscore production? Al Jefferson's been putting up 20+ and 11 for the past 2 years and I don't hear anybody here saying he was ever a great player, MVP material, or an impact player. That's because Raps fans are more objective regarding Al and can see he's just a bad defender which takes away from a lot of his pluses. But somehow the big numbers still come up when talking about Bosh while we whitewash his defence. I don't think people realize how bad his defence is compared to some of the better PFs in the league. He's maybe only one step above Al on D, but several steps below several other big men with lower production.

[redeye514]

If BC paid the man $60Mil to be a point forward, then Jay better use him as a point forward.


Not only are our two best players soft PF's, but our 3rd and 4th best are no D players who both need the ball in there hands to truly highlight their skills.

This team is all about repetitiveness and has no balance.

At the very least, like Scott Carefoot said earlier, allow Hedo to turn Jose into more of a scorer! Otherwise it just does more harm (defence) then good to have them both out there.

Seriously? Have you watched Bosh play this season? soft is just about the last word I would use to describe his play this season

I may be a little melodramatic... Bosh has certainly been playing like a man possesed (or like a man playing for a contract?) on offence this year, and has definately improved in the 'mans' rebound category, but the truth of the matter is that Bosh's body work to date has been one that demonstrates a player who is RELATIVELY soft... VC soft? No. But soft nonetheless, and it will take more than a dozen games to change my opinion on that.

Regardless, my basic point remains the same... Bosh/Bargs do NOT compliment each, and neither does Hedo/Jose.

[Canucklehead]

The biggest positive I saw from this acquisition was the possibility that Calderon might have more opportunities to score with Hedo setting him up. Clearly, that's not happening, although it doesn't help that Jose's 3P% is way down so far this season.

I agree with all this and would like to add that his 3P% could be a lot higher had Hedo been setting him up for the open look instead of a weak screen that barely gets him open before he jacks it up

[redeye514]

To Bosh's credit, I did like what I saw from him when he got up in Dwight's face.... that needs to continue... however, Dwight is his friend, so its probably easier to act like a bad a$$ to him.

I want to see him do that to KG next time KG is dry humping Bosh's leg, forcing Bosh into a fadeaway 20 footer when the game is on the line....

[I_Like_Dirt]

This is on Triano. He should be calling plays where Jose brings the ball up and then IMMEDIATELY hands off to Turkoglu. The biggest positive I saw from this acquisition was the possibility that Calderon might have more opportunities to score with Hedo setting him up. Clearly, that's not happening, although it doesn't help that Jose's 3P% is way down so far this season.

They tried playing Jose off the ball more to start the season, even though Turkoglu's usage rate wasn't particularly high there, either. The result was that Jose was absolutely terrible. It's weird, because the guy has insane offensive efficiency numbers, but those numbers crumble horribly when you ask him to take the shots given to him when a play generates them rather than allowing him to handle the ball and pick and choose when he feels comfortable shooting. Jose was useless playing even a bit off the ball with TJ and he's just as useless now playing off the ball with either Jack or Turkoglu. To be honest, though, the reason for Hedo's low usage rate is the fact that Bosh's usage rate is 30 and Bargnani's is 23 and the rest of the possessions are being shared by other good offensive players like Jose and Marco.

[redeye514]

If BC paid the man $60Mil to be a point forward, then Jay better use him as a point forward.


Not only are our two best players soft PF's, but our 3rd and 4th best are no D players who both need the ball in there hands to truly highlight their skills.

This team is all about repetitiveness and has no balance.

At the very least, like Scott Carefoot said earlier, allow Hedo to turn Jose into more of a scorer! Otherwise it just does more harm (defence) then good to have them both out there.

Well, our offense is the most efficient in the league, isn't that worth 60 million over 5 years (assuming for argument's sake that it stays that way)? Hedo's shooting #'s are better than last year, and if I'm not mistaken his assist-to-TO has improved slightly.

Calderon is getting more shots up per game and his scoring is slightly improved. He's been average from the line and his 3 point shooting is well below average, but had he hit even a modest clip from there his scoring numbers would be way up. Jose's been his own worst enemy in that he's missing the easy looks that made Nelson an all-star.

It seems to me if it's good for Hedo and good for the team, than he's being used well.

Honestly, how much of that is attributed to Jose+Hedo's combined playmaking versus Bargs+Bosh beastly offensive numbers? I think it'd more the latter... and sure, one can say that Bargs+Bosh are putting up beastly numbers because of BOTH Jose and Hedo's combined playmaking, but I dont believe that... they could have done the same thing with EITHER Jose or Hedo. Regadless, Bosh+Bargs will come down to earth just a touch, as will our offence.

The one thing that is not debatable however, is just how much of a defensive liability it is to have both of Hedo+Jose on the floor at the same time. Jose is worse than Hedo, obviously, but Hedo is still pretty bad.

All i know is, in watching the games, it's as clear as day that Hedo is under utilized on this team, and in most cases it's because Jose is ball hawking. That's not a slight on Jose, that's just what Jose does... my point is that Hedo and Jose dont mesh well together one bit.

[Indeed]

This is on Triano. He should be calling plays where Jose brings the ball up and then IMMEDIATELY hands off to Turkoglu. The biggest positive I saw from this acquisition was the possibility that Calderon might have more opportunities to score with Hedo setting him up. Clearly, that's not happening, although it doesn't help that Jose's 3P% is way down so far this season.

They tried playing Jose off the ball more to start the season, even though Turkoglu's usage rate wasn't particularly high there, either. The result was that Jose was absolutely terrible. It's weird, because the guy has insane offensive efficiency numbers, but those numbers crumble horribly when you ask him to take the shots given to him when a play generates them rather than allowing him to handle the ball and pick and choose when he feels comfortable shooting. Jose was useless playing even a bit off the ball with TJ and he's just as useless now playing off the ball with either Jack or Turkoglu. To be honest, though, the reason for Hedo's low usage rate is the fact that Bosh's usage rate is 30 and Bargnani's is 23 and the rest of the possessions are being shared by other good offensive players like Jose and Marco.

Yup, totally agree.

[gregdj]

trade jose for god sakes... if BC knows what must be done he will trade him in a package for a more defensive pg and let turk handle the ball more.

[Joseph17]

Yea he definitely needs to be used more effectively. Toronto should use him as the point forward the way Orlando did and start Belinelli over Jose. That would kill two birds with one stone.

[Y0DA]

The Raptors have proven they need better defense. Calderon has proven he can be effective off the bench. Jack is allegedly the better defender at point guard. Turkoglu is allegedly underused and can make plays. Triano should see if Jack and Turkoglu can prove those allegations.

[gregdj]

They should make basketball like hockey where you can do changes or subs on the fly.

Offensive line up score and run out ... defensive line up comes in and get a stop

is that what this team has been reduced to? our defense is that bad in our starting line up that we would have to change the rules to utilize our team properly. That is sad.

[Undefeated]

Don't really care about Hedo's usage rate. What this team needs to do is play more in transition.

[Ka5p3r]

give it time...he hasn't been 100% healthy and we're still trying to figure out where everyone fits.

AND we have no goddam defense....i REALLY think reggie evans is our KG...defensively....wihtout him we will just fall apart....which is happening right now...so.....WE NEED REGGIE BACK DAMMIT!

[Harry Palmer]

....i REALLY think reggie evans is our KG...defensively....wihtout him we will just fall apart....

I'm not sure whether my uncertainty as to whether this is a serious comment or not says more about me, our team, or this board.

So I'll just ask: is this a serious comment?