Roddick on Bosh/Hadi replies/Drake/HipHop/Cabbie promo p.22

[ShelB]

When I said K'naan was "one dimensional" I meant more in terms of the demographic he appeals to.

Wrong. I used to work a K'NAAN street team before he had an album out. He was still touring Toronto high schools. He was practically unknown. Lots of different people liked his music. People of all different races, religions, colours, creeds. If anything K'NAAN appeals to MORE demographics than Drake or alot of other rappers. He can fit into more genres of music than most other artists, he has a life story alot of people look at as honorable and interesting and he's a versatile musican.

K'NAAN is in no way one dimentional, demographically or otherwise.

Lol biased opinions ITT. Secondly lol at K'NAAN of all people appealing to more demographics. O rly? Lebron and Chris Paul aren't listening to K'naan bro, they're listening to Drake. Kids in the Hamptons ain't listening to K'naan, but they're listening to Drake. People from Compton and other hoods aren't listening to K'naan, but they listen to Drake (i.e. Derozan). If K'naan truly appeals to more demographics than Drake then that will be reflected in sales, or at least be comparable to Drake's sales...and I can guarantee you that won't be the case. Obviously there are exceptions tho, I'm sure there's that odd kid from the hood that's a K'naan fan, and some rich white kid somewhere is probably bumping The Dusty Foot Philosopher, but it's incomparable to the wide range of demographics and the quantity of people in each respective demographic that Drake reaches. This isn't to say K'naan isn't a versatile musician and his story isn't honorable because it is. But saying K'naan is more appealing to people than Drake is simply wrong.

So Drake covers the following demographics:
Professional Basketball Players
Kids In The Hamptons
People From Compton & Other Hoods

Sorry, that's not very many demographics.

And bias how? Because I like K'NAAN and followed his career from nearly the beginning? Sorry, from now on my opinions will be strictly neutral on everything to avoid being biased ever again.

[MinnyMo]

should check out XV if any of you haven't heard of him..have a feelin he could have a big year this year... j. cole, cudi, drake, charles hamilton, lupe are probably my faves wale and wiz are up there too

Dude, you just named all my fav rappers, I coulda swore I wrote that

XV's dope, you must check out djbooth.net, best site for the newest hiphop, on all levels

[Walid]

You compared So Far Gone to Blueprint 1?

I didn't say it but the guy that did was just trying to make a point that if you actually heard the mixtape, you'd realize that it was pretty damn awesome.

I've heard So Far Gone and I only liked the bonus track Congratulations and Say Whats Real was ok. Other than that it was a pretty average mixtape coming from todays rap world.

[Walid]

If you think Drake is rap, you're dumb, no offense. He was good before he signed with young money now he's just an overrated tool being used by Wayne. Wale is pretty good, but if you want real rap listen to some Rakim, Lupe, Eminem, Eazy - E, KRS-One, and who could forget Big L. Mainstream rap is just pathetic nowadays...

No offense bro but "real heads" gotta get off this. I don't understand why a comment about young guys to look for gets constantly conflated with the need to go discover "real rap" and then the obligatory list of names. Mostly the same with some slight variations. Actually, go check some of KRS-One's lectures and you'll realise "real rap" is a oxymoron, to begin with.

I really like Wale, especially The Mixtape About Nothing, but that in no way diminishes my love for all the artists you've named above and all the other "real" artists I've loved for more than a decade now so I don't always need everyone list thrown at me everytime I wanna talk hip hop. You can't just name drop like it will always be relevant, because in the case of a lot of these artists times and topics change. We aren't even in the same social setting that we were when The Slim Shady LP dropped, let alone Paid In Full. And as much as I have a guilty pleasure of digging in the past instead of exploring new music, I have to admit sometimes I just need to hear a fresh and up to date perspective.

This being said it would be nice if the youth put in a little work learning the history before they openned their mouths. But that's what youth does anyway isn't it?

I understand where you're coming from but I'm not looking off the young guys, its just the fascination with Drake and all is too much to handle. J. Cole, sure hes nice, but I'm not really feeling him in my opinion and Wale is good indeed. I guess its just that present day hiphop isn't what it used to be an now we got entertainers lining up and people doing it more for the money than from the heart.

[Ackshun]

I wonder how many "heads" on here have ANY of these records on vinyl?

vinyl collector here.

Man i got Canadian records for days. That old Frankenstein, some of that Planet Mars - Mad Fiber stuff, Choclairs early decent stuff - 21 years, what it takes, the Brick House EP from Sox..

I actually hit up PLAY DE last week and finally found a compilation from DJ Adam 12. he had this "Ultimate Rush" track on there I been dying for since the mid 90's with Sox/Heltah Skeltah

[HiMyNameIsTrey]

You compared So Far Gone to Blueprint 1?

I didn't say it but the guy that did was just trying to make a point that if you actually heard the mixtape, you'd realize that it was pretty damn awesome.

I've heard So Far Gone and I only liked the bonus track Congratulations and Say Whats Real was ok. Other than that it was a pretty average mixtape coming from todays rap world.

Not gonna say you're wrong because you're entitled to your opinion but listen to Houstatlantavegas, Little Bit, and Fear just to name a few. Take off the rap goggles and just listen to the MUSIC. Once you do, you'll get blown away. Take 'Little Bit' for example. The way he transitions from singing to spitting a verse is soo smoooth. My two cents.

Edit: While writing the above post, I realized that if people are just striclty RAP fans then you won't be able to see how talented guys like Drake, Cudi, and Kanye. When Kanye released 808's, a lot of people didn't give it a shot because he was "singing". Well here's the thing, if RAP is the only thing you guys are interested in, then stick with the guys you normally listen to, but don't hate on others that you can't even appreciate. To me these guys aren't rappers, they're artists. And damn good ones too.

[TheCalm]

When I said K'naan was "one dimensional" I meant more in terms of the demographic he appeals to.

This is where your argument falls apart. And I do understand where you are coming from, I do, but you're misunderstand a few key factors. Within the rap game, lets argue that hypothetically your statement about who is listening to Drake and who is listening to K'Naan is true. That in no way excludes Drake from being a product of the hype machine and marketing, corporate marketing lets make no mistake. In fact that is the very definition and benefit of the system.

More invested listeners will seek out talented and unique artists, whereas more casual listens will accept a lot of pre-packaged goods with debateable quality when compared against their more unique counter-parts. On a mass scale labelling makes a huge difference because it helps people define things quickly without needing to invest. Backpack rappers are a genre not because a bunch of guys decided to spit and skate and where backpacks, but because it's an image that has been established and helps people understand what they are to expect. The negative part is now artists have to fit that mold, because that's what a label will want, because that will make it easier to sell as an undemanding product.

Drake and his team didn't create anything, the mixtape model has been around for years. He IS funded (studio time, name exposure, media precense, branding) through Lil' Wayne's influence which IS a corporate backed endevour and when his first album drops it WILL pay off for the "free" investments put into him. The studio time and guest apparences and support he has received doesn't come free, and a lot of people lined up hoping to get paid off this.

As to your demographic misjudgment. K'Naan is going to be featured as the theme artist for the largest participated event in the world. The World Cup is bigger than the olympics bigger than anything and K'Naan will be singing the anthem. More people will forget his name afterwards, than those who will ever hear of Drake. That is true widespread appeal. A lot of people from all kinds of races and age groups wouldn't give Drake 4 seconds of their time. K'Naan can transcend that and he is arguably much more himself than Drake could even hope to be anymore. It's an interesting case study anyway, and I don't wish Drake any kind of failure. I just think that when thinking about hip hop we can be way too insular and self-destructive, also a bit insecure about the genre. There is nothing Drake does that inherently makes him more appealing to more people than his less commercial counterparts.

You obviously listen to all kinds of hip hop artists and enjoy them right? Does your opinion and enjoyment of the music change because one is more popular than the other? Because if it does you know that has nothing to do with the music itself right?

I guess I just appreciate the fact that (in my opinion) Drake appeals to the invested and casual listener. He can dumb it down enough for the average college student to appreciate, and at time be complex or advanced enough for the invested listener to appreciate...i.e. Drake on 4 my town with Birdman and Lil Wayne compared to Drake alone on Fear or Say what's real.

Dude I hate to disagree with you again but I can't agree with his team not creating anything. Yes, the mixtape model has been around for years but who took advantage of it like Drake did. Howcome J. Cole and Wale didn't blow up like Drake did off their mixtapes? The Warm up was crazy, but it was no So Far Gone. There was no major funding for So Far Gone from Wayne, or anyone else like you're alluding too. Bro, they recorded some tracks off this mixtape in their hotel room in LA using a laptop, pro tools and a mic! They recorded tracks in 40's room. Drake had next to no media exposure or branding before So Far Gone. If Best I ever Had and Successful don't catch on Drake isn't as big as he is today. They didn't have to pay for features, for Bun B to jump on Uptown..it's not like that. Drake and his team were creating a project and they already had prior connections in the game, and the ability to be able to get omarion on an interlude, get bun b on a song. Sure, Lil Wayne's features on So Far Gone helped a lot but Drake's success was his doing and you can't discredit him for that. There was timing, and chance mixed in as well but at the end of the day he has more to do with his success now than anyone else...


You obviously listen to all kinds of hip hop artists and enjoy them right? Does your opinion and enjoyment of the music change because one is more popular than the other?

Yes I do. No it doesn't. But In this particular case what I'm saying is that the reason Drake is more popular than all these other artists I also enjoy is because of his superior talent. As I said, J. Cole is one of my favorite rappers out right now..so are "underground" guys and "real" rappers like Blu, Evidence and Alchemist, Fashawn...but I'd still have to admit that..while these guys are ill, Drake is just a better overall artist. Joe Johnson is a good player, but Lebron > Joe Johnson...he'll just always be overall better than JJ is...

I agree with what you're saying about K'naan. Yes, that definitely is true widespread appeal and I definitely did not know he was going to be the theme artist for the World Cup. But it's difficult to debate in this sense, because Ronaldinho will always be more popular worldwide than Lebron James or Kobe Bryant is. Hip Hop is worldwide but the US is the mecca when it comes to rap in a worldly sense obviously. When I'm talking about an artist being big, or famous I'm referring to a North American perspective. K'naan may be more known worldwide than Drake or Lil Wayne, Kanye, etc during/after the World Cup but can anyone honestly say K'naan is a bigger artist than Jay-z or a bigger artist than Kanye Wesy without getting a screwface or a blank stare?

[TheCalm]

It's called passing the torch. How many years you think Jay-Z's got left in him? He's passing the torch, and there sure as hell aren't many other young popular hip hop artist to pass the torch to that would help him sell some more records in the process. Jay-Z didn't get to where he is by being a dumby, dumby. His co-signing of Drake does him just as much good as it does Drake.

Why does it always have to be "passing the torch" and doing it because it "helps him sell more records"? How about, he actually feels that way? You actually think for two seconds he might feel the way he says? You think Jay is going to be saying the same thing about Kardinal, or K'naan? Or Charles Hamilton? Why isn't Jay-z passing the torch to J. Cole? why Drake Instead? Why not Wale? These guys are Roc Nation, yet he's bigging up Drake more than two dudes who are apart of his record label. Jay co-signing Drake does Drake much more good than it does him. Jay-z is already going Plat every album, he's already the biggest artist out, he's arguably the biggest celebrity out you can honestly tell me he gains that much by co-signing Drake? ...please

I'm sorry, what? How is GZA not relevant? Dude does movie scores. He's branched out more than any imagined and he's no longer relevant? His last album under preformed in terms of sales, but that's a non factor according to you anyway.

LOL reading comprehension fail? I said GZA...as in GZA the Genius...not RZA, as in RZA the Razor. RZA is still relevant, GZA isn't. RZA knew how to stay relevant.

It's not a real album. It's a mixtape. I wouldn't say G Unit Radio Vol Whatever is a better album than Get Rich Or Die Tryin' for the same reason.

And no, there are rarely real albums anyway, and that's one of the reasons record sales are down and music quality is lacking: Nothing has to be heard in full anymore. Pop artists don't work on albums, they work on singles and quality suffers because of that.

So Far Gone was worked on as a project. Drake had no clue how people would even receive the album and was worried after dropping it the first couple weeks that it would go over people's heads. Best I ever Had wasn't even supposed to be on the mixtape. This was a body of work, no one approached SFG as "we gotta make a hit for this to pop off"...that's just not how it happened.

Link or it didn't happen. Find me all these people saying Drake is making GOOD music and not just that he's SMART for what he's doing. There's a difference. I've yet to hear a journalist or a critic say Drake is as good as the hype, and hear quite a bit more about how he handled his record deal and promotion smart and that he's the new "thing" in music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKfpG1oUQhY&feature=player_embedded

"…the kid Drake is amazing. I love what they are singing about. They are bigging up women again. They are making women feel special. The song you the best…Drake, you the best for even thinking about that…

When I heard that song, I was like…this is a savior right now" - Mary J Blige

[url]
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/161434 ... __3_.jhtml[/url]

"I've had the chance to meet Drake and listen to his music. The volumes of music he's producing makes him a strong force that'll be around for a very long time"

"usually, when you see an artist of today, they do one thing — maybe they perform a song or do a great hook — but you seldom see a guy who can walk a song, all from the R&B end, and then to be on a track with Bun B ... and Bun B, he doesn't get on tracks with people unless it's really legit ..." - Jamie Foxx

That's funny, he seems to be echoing the exact same sentiments I have. I guess we're just on the same page?


http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/162815 ... rake.jhtml

That kid is..honestly..almost to the respect of talking about one of the greatest..I mean like how we talk about BIG and we talk about... he's almost there. And he ain't drop, he ain't have an album - Lil Wayne

I think it's well deserved I think he put together this incredible mixtape that spawned two smash record..with successful and best i ever had...I think it's a breath of fresh air - Jay - Z

Now do I really need to link all the video's of Joe Budden Co-signing Drake, when he hadn't even dropped So Far Gone yet? Do I need to link every top producer in the game talking about Drake's talent? Every other artist that says he's making good music? These people are all talking about how Drake make's GOOD music, not just how he's doing something innovative. Jamie Foxx was spot on. That is what you call versatility. Funny how all these successful people all share the same sentiments, which are totally opposite of your average real gm poster.

The percentage of people who don't understand are higher than the percentage that do my friend.

[Boogie!]

i can't help but think thecalm is someone that works with drake personally. either that or he's his number 1 fan.

[junot111]

If you think Drake is rap, you're dumb, no offense. He was good before he signed with young money now he's just an overrated tool being used by Wayne. Wale is pretty good, but if you want real rap listen to some Rakim, Lupe, Eminem, Eazy - E, KRS-One, and who could forget Big L. Mainstream rap is just pathetic nowadays...

No offense bro but "real heads" gotta get off this. I don't understand why a comment about young guys to look for gets constantly conflated with the need to go discover "real rap" and then the obligatory list of names. Mostly the same with some slight variations. Actually, go check some of KRS-One's lectures and you'll realise "real rap" is a oxymoron, to begin with.

I really like Wale, especially The Mixtape About Nothing, but that in no way diminishes my love for all the artists you've named above and all the other "real" artists I've loved for more than a decade now so I don't always need everyone list thrown at me everytime I wanna talk hip hop. You can't just name drop like it will always be relevant, because in the case of a lot of these artists times and topics change. We aren't even in the same social setting that we were when The Slim Shady LP dropped, let alone Paid In Full. And as much as I have a guilty pleasure of digging in the past instead of exploring new music, I have to admit sometimes I just need to hear a fresh and up to date perspective.

This being said it would be nice if the youth put in a little work learning the history before they openned their mouths. But that's what youth does anyway isn't it?

I agree, it gets tiring always seeing "check out real hip hop, artist x, artist y, etc."

Real hip hop is real hip hop. Drake is definitely pop.

But how did this turn into a discussion about Drake from a tennis player?

[TheCalm]

lol far from it. People are just stupid, and they like to hate on everything. The one thing worse than hating on someone talented and successful is hating on someone talented and successful from your city. Makes me kinda sick actually

[Harold_and_Kumar]

When I said K'naan was "one dimensional" I meant more in terms of the demographic he appeals to.

Wrong. I used to work a K'NAAN street team before he had an album out. He was still touring Toronto high schools. He was practically unknown. Lots of different people liked his music. People of all different races, religions, colours, creeds. If anything K'NAAN appeals to MORE demographics than Drake or alot of other rappers. He can fit into more genres of music than most other artists, he has a life story alot of people look at as honorable and interesting and he's a versatile musican.

K'NAAN is in no way one dimentional, demographically or otherwise.

Lol biased opinions ITT. Secondly lol at K'NAAN of all people appealing to more demographics. O rly? Lebron and Chris Paul aren't listening to K'naan bro, they're listening to Drake. Kids in the Hamptons ain't listening to K'naan, but they're listening to Drake. People from Compton and other hoods aren't listening to K'naan, but they listen to Drake (i.e. Derozan). If K'naan truly appeals to more demographics than Drake then that will be reflected in sales, or at least be comparable to Drake's sales...and I can guarantee you that won't be the case. Obviously there are exceptions tho, I'm sure there's that odd kid from the hood that's a K'naan fan, and some rich white kid somewhere is probably bumping The Dusty Foot Philosopher, but it's incomparable to the wide range of demographics and the quantity of people in each respective demographic that Drake reaches. This isn't to say K'naan isn't a versatile musician and his story isn't honorable because it is. But saying K'naan is more appealing to people than Drake is simply wrong.

The problem in your argument is that reaching more demographics does not necessarily equal more sales. When you say that it should be reflected in their sales you are beginning a different argument altogether. Your argument as I see it is discussing the outreach of K'naan's music vs. Drake's to different types of people. For example (though it isn't this black and white obviously), Drake could reach the same demographic over and over again and make a million sales off of it while K'naan could sell 5 albums to people of a variety of demographics and he would have a greater outreach. Obviously the reason it isn't so black and white is that people belong to variety of demographics, but I hope you understand the point I'm trying to make.

FWIW, I am a fan of both. I will say this, I have many friends who aren't primarily fans of rap/hip-hop who are K'naan fans, whereas I can't say the same about Drake.

[EH15]

RealGM Essay Writing 101

[Hypz]

Rules of the internets:

1. Don't argue about religion.
2. Don't argue about music.

[IamRapsMvP]

man, whoever says drake sucks don't know what they talking about. Listen to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BdmvbK2q6k

crazy tune.

[J Dilla]

So far, theCalm has said:

-K Naan is one dimensional
-Drake's album is better than the classics of the past decade
-So Far Gone is on the same level as Blueprint 1 (LAWL, LOL, LULZ, LOL, ROLF,LMAO, LMFAO,ROFLMAO)
-If teenage girls aren't listening to your CD, it's a fail.
-GZA's not relevent
-If you don't agree with the above you are a hip hop "elitist" and you think hip hop is "dead"

Can anyone take this seriously?

Look, I didn't say Drake's totally trash. He's alright, but no savior of hip hop or anything. He's a pop star. There were only 2 songs in SFG that were worth listening to, the rest of the stuff I had to skip. Just because some people are not digging Drake doesn't mean they're hip hop elitists. Not too long ago, like 4-5 years ago, mainstream hip hop was pretty solid, but the business model it appears to me has changed completely, which is why the stuff we used to see is more low key now on TV, but massively distributed on the internet.

You should visit the Hip Hop Thread in the media lounge on realgm, people share some good music there. But I'm sorry, you will not find drake.

[J Dilla]

When Kanye released 808's, a lot of people didn't give it a shot because he was "singing".

He wasn't singing, he was using something that was raped to death and it was getting quite tiring.

Cudi's CD was good, I liked 4-5 tracks from his new CD, the rest scared me away with his emo/suicide stuff.

Here's a new internet sensation: Jay Electronica. Compare his work to Drake and let me know.

[ILLuMiNAUGHTY]

man, whoever says drake sucks don't know what they talking about. Listen to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BdmvbK2q6k

crazy tune.

*Puke* crazy beat, but the song as a whole is ugly. Regurgitated lyrics from "Every Girl" and low production quality... seems to be more of a laptop mixtape track...

sorry, Drake can't take much credit for that one.

ID... nice to see your thoughts on the game, once again.

[TheCalm]

So far, theCalm has said:

-K Naan is one dimensional
-Drake's album is better than the classics of the past decade
-So Far Gone is on the same level as Blueprint 1 (LAWL, LOL, LULZ, LOL, ROLF,LMAO, LMFAO,ROFLMAO)
-If teenage girls aren't listening to your CD, it's a fail.
-GZA's not relevent
-If you don't agree with the above you are a hip hop "elitist" and you think hip hop is "dead"

Can anyone take this seriously?

Look, I didn't say Drake's totally trash. He's alright, but no savior of hip hop or anything. He's a pop star. There were only 2 songs in SFG that were worth listening to, the rest of the stuff I had to skip. Just because some people are not digging Drake doesn't mean they're hip hop elitists. Not too long ago, like 4-5 years ago, mainstream hip hop was pretty solid, but the business model it appears to me has changed completely, which is why the stuff we used to see is more low key now on TV, but massively distributed on the internet.

You should visit the Hip Hop Thread in the media lounge on realgm, people share some good music there. But I'm sorry, you will not find drake.

- I cleared up what I meant by K'naan being one dimensional
- I said it's up there with the classics of the past decade. Many people agree with this. No, not random forum posters but people who have clout, people who's opinions hold more weight than mine and yours
- Now you're just being ignorant. I said it's stupid and mindless to say so and so's music is catered to teenage girls when it's NOT.
- GZA's relevant? What planet are you living on?
- No. If you act like a dumb hip hop elitist then that's what you are. I.D. came in this thread and shared his view on why he doesn't think Drake is what he's hyped up to be and he made sensible points. Compared to "lolz u listen to Drake r u a girl?" or "Drake isn't REAL" bs. I respect his opinion, no one has to like Drake, but to say things that are false and to have ridiculous reasoning behind why you're bashing someone's music makes your opinion bad

I didn't say he's the savior of hip hop. Lol all I've been saying this whole thread is don't knock the man for doing something people haven't done before...and making quality music that most people appreciate, especially since he's repping our hometown. He's putting us on the map like Vince did in 2000. And sorry mainstream was better 4-5 years ago? Dunno about that...now the new "mainstream" is artists like Cudi and Drake...a big step up from lil jon and lil scrappy imo

[J Dilla]

He's putting us on the map like Vince did in 2000. And sorry mainstream was better 4-5 years ago? Dunno about that...now the new "mainstream" is artists like Cudi and Drake...a big step up from lil jon and lil scrappy imo

Shady, Nas, Jay-Z, Explosion of south, The Game, Bun-B, Common, Kanye, Obie, AZ, Papoose, Lupe, Ghostface- Morefish-Fishscale, Termanology, J Dilla, Hi-Tek

These people put out some good music, and it was more I'd say, diverse. Lil Jon did his thing with his production way before 2005. His first song that was publicized was "Bia Bia" in 2001, he had his screaming chorus, some mean lyrics from the artists featured in it, and a solid beat.