WOJ: Collins to Utah

[Inigo Montoya]

I think Collins is a pretty good player but he was underutilized by the Hawks in the past few seasons, and I'm sure the constant attempts to trade him didn't help, as did some of the injuries he suffered. But mostly I think it was under-utilization by the Hawks. I just don't like the fit, contract, and the fact that we just drafted Hendricks.

[SoCalJazzFan]

I really think this is another good pick up by the Jazz.

My take is there is 144 minutes available for three positions.

My break down would look something like this.

Markanaan- 30-32 minutes
Kessler- 28-30 minutes
Oilynks (sp?)- 24-26 minutes
Collins- 24-28 minutes
Hendricks- 24-28 minutes
Everyone else- 10-14 minutes

Pleanty of time for Hendricks to grow throughout the year.

If Collins gets rejuvenated he is in the 28 minutes level, if not Hendricks moves into the 28 minute level.

I think the one that gets reduce time might by Senesbaugh.

If you’re okay with running 3 guys who defensively are clearly f/c type guys for at least 70 percent of the time, it’s fine.

I think most coaches wouldn’t be. None of those guys can reliably defend small forwards IMO.

I agree. We still have zero natural small forwards on our roster.

I've been watching additional highlights and interviews with Hendricks, and I think that he might surprise as to his defensive versatility. He actually welcomes the challenge of switches and at least in some videos looked Nic Claxton-ish defending guards and wings. Of course, Nic Claxton with a reliable 3pt shot would be an amazing player.

[Inigo Montoya]

I've been watching additional highlights and interviews with Hendricks, and I think that he might surprise as to his defensive versatility. He actually welcomes the challenge of switches and at least in some videos looked Nic Claxton-ish defending guards and wings. Of course, Nic Claxton with a reliable 3pt shot would be an amazing player.

I think that defensively Hendricks could probably guard small forwards pretty well, but offensively I don't know how much to his game is there, especially if Markkanen plays the 4. Will he just stand in the corner and shoot 3s? We know offensive creation is one of his weaknesses. I fear we won't have much offensive creation from our front court outside of Markkanen, and now that we traded for Collins, it might force Markkanen to play the 3 more and chase smaller players and there is only so much he can do. I still don't like our transition defense, I think we're still too big to do that effectively.

[SoCalJazzFan]

I've been watching additional highlights and interviews with Hendricks, and I think that he might surprise as to his defensive versatility. He actually welcomes the challenge of switches and at least in some videos looked Nic Claxton-ish defending guards and wings. Of course, Nic Claxton with a reliable 3pt shot would be an amazing player.

I think that defensively Hendricks could probably guard small forwards pretty well, but offensively I don't know how much to his game is there, especially if Markkanen plays the 4. Will he just stand in the corner and shoot 3s? We know offensive creation is one of his weaknesses. I fear we won't have much offensive creation from our front court outside of Markkanen, and now that we traded for Collins, it might force Markkanen to play the 3 more and chase smaller players and there is only so much he can do. I still don't like our transition defense, I think we're still too big to do that effectively.

I agree that Hendricks lacks offensive creation, and perhaps even the size/strength to do so down low or the handle to ever become an effective creator in space. It will be the difference of him being a starter/high level starter to an All Star. Getting a high level starter at #9 isn't so bad, though.

Markk played a lot of SF last season. With the league going bigger, it might not be a huge deal that he plays SF. What is encouraging is that when Markk, Olynyk and Kessler all played together, they had a very good net rating.

[vtime]

Collins is a great leaper, great dunker, average to good rebounder, and good 3pt shooter for a PF.

With that said, he disappears in big games, he doesn't know what to do if he is not the #1 option, and is not clutch and no dawg in him.

He is basically the opposite of Jimmy Butler and more like a Julius Randle clone. It really looks like Collins stopped caring about basketballafter getting his big contract two years ago.

He has declined in production since he got the big contract. Could be injury related, but some players do seem to disappear after getting their big second contract. As a Hawks fan, how much do you think it might have to do with him being on the trade block and marginalized and feeling not wanted by ATL from even before his contract was negotiated?

His numbers went down the last 2.5 seasons because he was dominating as a small ball 5 for years, but then they traded for Clint Capela and it moved him to PF and they added a bunch of wings like Bogdanovic and Hunter and his role reduced. He’s still just as good of a player.

[vtime]

https://youtu.be/6M_Kj8f1NUI

Good breakdown

[Cappy_Smurf]

Meh. At least we gave up nothing. I'd really rather have had Hendricks get the minutes. I don't think Collins helps that much, but probably gets more wins then the Jazz need.

Personally don't think the Jazz should be attempting to get into the playoffs yet- they just blew up the previous team for not being able to get out of the 1st round. This teams ceiling is a first round exit at best, and is a team full of role players. They need that star player through the draft.

Just, meh on the teams direction.

Ainge has stated this is a 2-3 year rebuild. Drafting potential is not a 2-3 year rebuild. Did you read the Book of Ainge?

I guess he's rebuilding us back to being perennial first round exits then.

FFS, Debbie downer. The nuggets just won a championship on the back of an MVP who was drafted in the 2nd round. The bucks have won a championship recently led by an MVP drafted at 16.

Meanwhile, there are plenty of Zions and Aytons in the league who were drafted high and either aren't that good or are chronically injured.

This obsession with only drafting in the top 3 every year is silly. No matter where you draft, there is a ton of luck involved with building a championship team.

Utah is in one of the best positions in the NBA in terms of building a powerhouse. If you can't get excited for the possible future of the team just because they aren't the worst team in the league, it might be time to quit watching the NBA.

[AingesBurner]

Ainge has stated this is a 2-3 year rebuild. Drafting potential is not a 2-3 year rebuild. Did you read the Book of Ainge?

I guess he's rebuilding us back to being perennial first round exits then.

FFS, Debbie downer. The nuggets just won a championship on the back of an MVP who was drafted in the 2nd round. The bucks have won a championship recently led by an MVP drafted at 16.

Meanwhile, there are plenty of Zions and Aytons in the league who were drafted high and either aren't that good or are chronically injured.

This obsession with only drafting in the top 3 every year is silly. No matter where you draft, there is a ton of luck involved with building a championship team.

Utah is in one of the best positions in the NBA in terms of building a powerhouse. If you can't get excited for the possible future of the team just because they aren't the worst team in the league, it might be time to quit watching the NBA.

And don’t forget the Klaw, dude was like 13th. Curry was 7th or 9th. The only superstars to be picked 1st and win championships, in recent memory, are LeBron and Irving; those guys had to team up to win.

[stitches]

I guess the Jazz are betting that they can rehab Collins' finger and his level of play from few years ago. He's still young and has shown some promise in the past. I don't mind this trade, but it's worth pointing out that this is pretty much an admission from the Jazz GM and FO that they cannot do any better than John Collins in FA over the next few years.

It also kind of sucks for Hendricks. This is a bit like the Udoka draft then adding Favors in FA. So much redundancy... On a positive note we added a contract which just by a little positive development will be neutral or thereabout contract and we can use that contract in case a superstar becomes available for trade without having to include any of our core players.

[Rauxcee]

Ainge has stated this is a 2-3 year rebuild. Drafting potential is not a 2-3 year rebuild. Did you read the Book of Ainge?

I guess he's rebuilding us back to being perennial first round exits then.

FFS, Debbie downer. The nuggets just won a championship on the back of an MVP who was drafted in the 2nd round. The bucks have won a championship recently led by an MVP drafted at 16.

Meanwhile, there are plenty of Zions and Aytons in the league who were drafted high and either aren't that good or are chronically injured.

This obsession with only drafting in the top 3 every year is silly. No matter where you draft, there is a ton of luck involved with building a championship team.

Utah is in one of the best positions in the NBA in terms of building a powerhouse. If you can't get excited for the possible future of the team just because they aren't the worst team in the league, it might be time to quit watching the NBA.

What you call being a Debbie downer, I call being a realist.

I'm not asking them to tank, I'm asking them to aim higher than being first round, maybe second round, playoff team. Collins isn't a winning move (it's not a losing move either). He was completely free and we gave up nothing which is great. And maybe he bounces back to a solid player. And maybe he doesn't and just takes minutes away from who drafted. Either way, I would rather give the minutes to Hendricks, not Collins.

To me, all the moves so far are capping our ceiling at a first round exit. Can that change with future moves? Sure. But I can only judge what we have actually done, not hypothetical moves in the future that may never happen.

Jazz going after KP and Collins, not going after generational talent this year, tells me they are fine being the average playoff team they always have been.

The best players to ever wear a Jazz uniform have come through the draft. Late lotto picks and beyond usually. We aren't getting stars in FA, and star players mostly have control in trades too- we are not a trade destination and never will be. Our best shot is the draft- even late lotto draft picks. That's why I lean on the draft because reality and history say we aren't getting a star any other way.

It's being realistic, not being a downer.

[MalonesElbows]

I guess the Jazz are betting that they can rehab Collins' finger and his level of play from few years ago. He's still young and has shown some promise in the past. I don't mind this trade, but it's worth pointing out that this is pretty much an admission from the Jazz GM and FO that they cannot do any better than John Collins in FA over the next few years.

Sad but true, history teaches they can't.

[Inigo Montoya]

It's worth noting the the free agency crop this season is very lean. As for Collins' finger, Hawks fans say that after it healed around allstar break he returned to his usual shooting percentages, which is pretty good. They also say he's a good defender now, FWIW.

[AingesBurner]

It's worth noting the the free agency crop this season is very lean. As for Collins' finger, Hawks fans say that after it healed around allstar break he returned to his usual shooting percentages, which is pretty good. They also say he's a good defender now, FWIW.

Danny is doing what he’s always done, finding undervalued assets on the cheap. Utah now has young players to flip for Luka.

[AingesBurner]

I guess he's rebuilding us back to being perennial first round exits then.

FFS, Debbie downer. The nuggets just won a championship on the back of an MVP who was drafted in the 2nd round. The bucks have won a championship recently led by an MVP drafted at 16.

Meanwhile, there are plenty of Zions and Aytons in the league who were drafted high and either aren't that good or are chronically injured.

This obsession with only drafting in the top 3 every year is silly. No matter where you draft, there is a ton of luck involved with building a championship team.

Utah is in one of the best positions in the NBA in terms of building a powerhouse. If you can't get excited for the possible future of the team just because they aren't the worst team in the league, it might be time to quit watching the NBA.

What you call being a Debbie downer, I call being a realist.

I'm not asking them to tank, I'm asking them to aim higher than being first round, maybe second round, playoff team. Collins isn't a winning move (it's not a losing move either). He was completely free and we gave up nothing which is great. And maybe he bounces back to a solid player. And maybe he doesn't and just takes minutes away from who drafted. Either way, I would rather give the minutes to Hendricks, not Collins.

To me, all the moves so far are capping our ceiling at a first round exit. Can that change with future moves? Sure. But I can only judge what we have actually done, not hypothetical moves in the future that may never happen.

Jazz going after KP and Collins, not going after generational talent this year, tells me they are fine being the average playoff team they always have been.

The best players to ever wear a Jazz uniform have come through the draft. Late lotto picks and beyond usually. We aren't getting stars in FA, and star players mostly have control in trades too- we are not a trade destination and never will be. Our best shot is the draft- even late lotto draft picks. That's why I lean on the draft because reality and history say we aren't getting a star any other way.

It's being realistic, not being a downer.

You are being realistic when the Millers owned the team… this is new territory we are in! We actually traded guys before their contracts were about to expire!! Utah has never had a GM like Ainge, a real ruthless molla ****. Utah has never had the most assets in the league, we have never followed this blue print before. We are getting a star in a trade and 99% certain it will be a white Euro dude.

[Inigo Montoya]

You are being realistic when the Millers owned the team… this is new territory we are in! We actually traded guys before their contracts were about to expire!! Utah has never had a GM like Ainge, a real ruthless molla ****. Utah has never had the most assets in the league, we have never followed this blue print before. We are getting a star in a trade and 99% certain it will be a white Euro dude.

Darko Milicic/Ante Tomic to the Jazz confirmed.

[Blazinaway]

Blazer fan coming in peace, was curious if you guys would consider a Collins for Ant Simons trade? Not sure what your needs are at guard

[Inigo Montoya]

Blazer fan coming in peace, was curious if you guys would consider a Collins for Ant Simons trade? Not sure what your needs are at guard

I'd do it. It fills our need at SG for the next few years with a young player who is still improving, clears some of the glut we have at PF, gives more time for Hendricks to develop, and already gets us off Collins' contract before we even began to reclaim his value. It's a yes for me.

[AingesBurner]

You are being realistic when the Millers owned the team… this is new territory we are in! We actually traded guys before their contracts were about to expire!! Utah has never had a GM like Ainge, a real ruthless molla ****. Utah has never had the most assets in the league, we have never followed this blue print before. We are getting a star in a trade and 99% certain it will be a white Euro dude.

Darko Milicic/Ante Tomic to the Jazz confirmed.

Don’t you put that evil on me, Inigo Montoya! Don’t you put that evil on me!!

[AingesBurner]

Blazer fan coming in peace, was curious if you guys would consider a Collins for Ant Simons trade? Not sure what your needs are at guard

I love Ant but we would need to find a home for Sexton as they replicate each other.

[Inigo Montoya]

You are being realistic when the Millers owned the team… this is new territory we are in! We actually traded guys before their contracts were about to expire!! Utah has never had a GM like Ainge, a real ruthless molla ****. Utah has never had the most assets in the league, we have never followed this blue print before. We are getting a star in a trade and 99% certain it will be a white Euro dude.

Darko Milicic/Ante Tomic to the Jazz confirmed.

Don’t you put that evil on me, Inigo Montoya! Don’t you put that evil on me!!

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