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Jazz Dog wrote:I would use Collins in the Zion trade with other filler.

Untouchables to me are the young guns, Sexton, Markanaan and Kessler.

I really like Kessler. His paint defensive presence is top tier, but the other aspects of his game are lacking in the modern NBA. IMO, if the Jazz were to win the lottery and be in a position to draft Sarr, Kessler might become a backup or trade asset.

WinterSoldier wrote:Even if we got two of those players I don't think we are a true contender.
Their are only a few young stars that would make us contenders.

Luka
Ant Edwards
Tatum
Ja Morant? if he gets his head straight.
SGA
Holmgren
Wemby

Unless you can get a young true #1 star option which might be impossible. Our only real option is drafting a star and using our other assets to build around them IMO.

Yep, all but one drafted by the team. OKC had Kawhi which enabled them to trade for SGA.
The Jazz, IMO, should extend Markk, do a real tank job this next season and take advantage of any opportunities as they arise after that.

SoCalJazzFan wrote:

WinterSoldier wrote:Even if we got two of those players I don't think we are a true contender.
Their are only a few young stars that would make us contenders.

Luka
Ant Edwards
Tatum
Ja Morant? if he gets his head straight.
SGA
Holmgren
Wemby

Unless you can get a young true #1 star option which might be impossible. Our only real option is drafting a star and using our other assets to build around them IMO.

Yep, all but one drafted by the team. OKC had Kawhi which enabled them to trade for SGA.
The Jazz, IMO, should extend Markk, do a real tank job this next season and take advantage of any opportunities as they arise after that.

I think you mean Paul George instead of Kawhi but you make a valid point. Something of note is that SGA was considered a good young player but not on the tier of those listed above when they traded for him. I wonder what players would fit that mold right now in the league. SGA made the all-rookie second team so an apt comparison might be someone like Bilal Coulibaly, Amen Thompson, or Cason Wallace.

I wonder if you could pry one of those loose + get some picks back by moving Lauri.

bkohler wrote:

SoCalJazzFan wrote:

WinterSoldier wrote:Even if we got two of those players I don't think we are a true contender.
Their are only a few young stars that would make us contenders.

Luka
Ant Edwards
Tatum
Ja Morant? if he gets his head straight.
SGA
Holmgren
Wemby

Unless you can get a young true #1 star option which might be impossible. Our only real option is drafting a star and using our other assets to build around them IMO.

Yep, all but one drafted by the team. OKC had Kawhi which enabled them to trade for SGA.
The Jazz, IMO, should extend Markk, do a real tank job this next season and take advantage of any opportunities as they arise after that.

I think you mean Paul George instead of Kawhi but you make a valid point. Something of note is that SGA was considered a good young player but not on the tier of those listed above when they traded for him. I wonder what players would fit that mold right now in the league. SGA made the all-rookie second team so an apt comparison might be someone like Bilal Coulibaly, Amen Thompson, or Cason Wallace.

I wonder if you could pry one of those loose + get some picks back by moving Lauri.

Wallace, Ivey, Jabari Smith, Thompson, and Maybe Kuminga?

I agree 100% with you this is the correct path forward. Lauri has been amazing for us but he is ready to win now and we as a team are not there and won't be for a few seasons. OKC is the exact model we should follow.

Yeah, I didn't include Ivey, Smith, or Kuminga because they're a bit farther along contract-wise than SGA was when he got traded, but I agree that all of these targets make sense. I'd add Sengun, Mobley, and Murray to that list as well.

The only problem with extending Lauri (which I agree with) and a proper tank job is I think they still end up around the 6-8, which you could get lucky, but I think playing your best players, which the Jazz clearly were not doing for 35-40% of the season will not get them to where they need to be for a full blown rebuild.

Trey Murphy is a guy I would love to see the Jazz try to get, but I'm sure he's virtually untouchable right now for New Orleans.

Gert42 wrote:The only problem with extending Lauri (which I agree with) and a proper tank job is I think they still end up around the 6-8, which you could get lucky, but I think playing your best players, which the Jazz clearly were not doing for 35-40% of the season will not get them to where they need to be for a full blown rebuild.

Trey Murphy is a guy I would love to see the Jazz try to get, but I'm sure he's virtually untouchable right now for New Orleans.

You have to fake an injury for Markkanen that lasts for the entire season.

Idk Lauri was available for most of the games post ASB and the Jazz still had the worst record in the league. It feels like he really needs a facilitator to maximize his talents and without Conley or Olynyk he didn’t have enough himself to lead to many wins.

Gert42 wrote:Trey Murphy is a guy I would love to see the Jazz try to get, but I'm sure he's virtually untouchable right now for New Orleans.

I’d offer a lot for Murphy. A lot.

bkohler wrote:Idk Lauri was available for most of the games post ASB and the Jazz still had the worst record in the league. It feels like he really needs a facilitator to maximize his talents and without Conley or Olynyk he didn’t have enough himself to lead to many wins.

Do you mean that he would have been available if Jazz didn't force him to sit with a fake injury?
Because he played 4 of the last 21 games. The team went 1 - 8 in the stretch before he was taken out, so you are right he wasn't able to carry them and won't be able to do it alone in the future either, but "available for most of the games post ASB" is just incorrect, he played 9 of 26 post ASB.

BigJimFinn wrote:

bkohler wrote:Idk Lauri was available for most of the games post ASB and the Jazz still had the worst record in the league. It feels like he really needs a facilitator to maximize his talents and without Conley or Olynyk he didn’t have enough himself to lead to many wins.

Do you mean that he would have been available if Jazz didn't force him to sit with a fake injury?
Because he played 4 of the last 21 games. The team went 1 - 8 in the stretch before he was taken out, so you are right he wasn't able to carry them and won't be able to do it alone in the future either, but "available for most of the games post ASB" is just incorrect, he played 9 of 26 post ASB.

I stand corrected, I obviously blocked most of the last few months from my memory.

I would go hard after Cade Cunningham on Detroit.

dr0welf wrote:I would go hard after Cade Cunningham on Detroit.

Cunningham would obviously be a nice get but I don't think he's on the market (unless I missed some news?). Aren't the Pistons building around him as their franchise player?

I think the Jazz would have to set their targets on a more attainable player, like Trae Young or Murray (if we're talking point guards) because one of them is likely to be moved.

Neither Trae or Dejounte is likely to be moved because Atlanta is very stupid and has Ainge disease (they won't make a trade unless they absolutely must or they feel like they won the trade).

Trae's trade value is at an all-time low currently.

Inigo Montoya wrote:

dr0welf wrote:I would go hard after Cade Cunningham on Detroit.

Cunningham would obviously be a nice get but I don't think he's on the market (unless I missed some news?). Aren't the Pistons building around him as their franchise player?

I think the Jazz would have to set their targets on a more attainable player, like Trae Young or Murray (if we're talking point guards) because one of them is likely to be moved.

He's good, but I don't think he's a franchise player. I think he's a #2 or #3 guy on a playoff team. But just reading inside the lines with the trades that happened at the trade deadline I would guess that was our big target we almost had. We ended up just trading Fontecio instead of the whole package because I believe the New York package came up and was in their minds a better option to build around Cunningham, like you say, then trading him and getting assets to really dig into a rebuild. Detroit has been horrible with their rebuild and I believe they are going to have to reset it with another rookie contract to build around, similar to how the Chicago Bears did in the NFL with trading Fields to get Williams. I wouldn't be surprised if the trade happens on draft night and they are taking who they believe to be their next player to build around. All just assumption with no proof but lots of conjecture.

Cooper Flagg

I see all these posts of concern that Utah won't be able to tank properly.

Worst record in the league has a 14% chance at the number one pick.

Tanking properly isn't actually a thing anymore. Winning the lottery is all luck and tanking properly equates to very slightly increasing your poor odds of a #1 pick.

Cappy_Smurf wrote:I see all these posts of concern that Utah won't be able to tank properly.

Worst record in the league has a 14% chance at the number one pick.

Tanking properly isn't actually a thing anymore. Winning the lottery is all luck and tanking properly equates to very slightly increasing your poor odds of a #1 pick.

I mean, this is kind of true, but Sexton and Markkanen are also going to hate playing here and end up playing with minimal passion if our goal is "let's just miss the playoffs and hope we get really lucky!"

It will also reduce their value by a good bit, reducing the amount of potential good picks we could have.

The bad odds for the #1 pick do mean that most rebuilds nowadays have to be 5-7 year rebuilds.

The Jazz also owe a top 10 protected pick next year and top 8 the year after so they would have to do aggressive post ASB tanking two years in a row.

HadAnEffectHere wrote:

Cappy_Smurf wrote:I see all these posts of concern that Utah won't be able to tank properly.

Worst record in the league has a 14% chance at the number one pick.

Tanking properly isn't actually a thing anymore. Winning the lottery is all luck and tanking properly equates to very slightly increasing your poor odds of a #1 pick.

I mean, this is kind of true, but Sexton and Markkanen are also going to hate playing here and end up playing with minimal passion if our goal is "let's just miss the playoffs and hope we get really lucky!"

It will also reduce their value by a good bit, reducing the amount of potential good picks we could have.

The bad odds for the #1 pick do mean that most rebuilds nowadays have to be 5-7 year rebuilds.

The Jazz also owe a top 10 protected pick next year and top 8 the year after so they would have to do aggressive post ASB tanking two years in a row.

Over the last twenty years, most championship teams built their rosters through trades and FA. The Warriors and Spurs being the outliers, but the Warriors won with their own stars who were selected at 7, 12, and in the 2nd round. The draft is a crap shoot and good scouting is more important than top picks.

AingesBurner wrote:

HadAnEffectHere wrote:

Cappy_Smurf wrote:I see all these posts of concern that Utah won't be able to tank properly.

Worst record in the league has a 14% chance at the number one pick.

Tanking properly isn't actually a thing anymore. Winning the lottery is all luck and tanking properly equates to very slightly increasing your poor odds of a #1 pick.

I mean, this is kind of true, but Sexton and Markkanen are also going to hate playing here and end up playing with minimal passion if our goal is "let's just miss the playoffs and hope we get really lucky!"

It will also reduce their value by a good bit, reducing the amount of potential good picks we could have.

The bad odds for the #1 pick do mean that most rebuilds nowadays have to be 5-7 year rebuilds.

The Jazz also owe a top 10 protected pick next year and top 8 the year after so they would have to do aggressive post ASB tanking two years in a row.

Over the last twenty years, most championship teams built their rosters through trades and FA. The Warriors and Spurs being the outliers, but the Warriors won with their own stars who were selected at 7, 12, and in the 2nd round. The draft is a crap shoot and good scouting is more important than top picks.

Okay, but like

Who are the Jazz going to possibly get through trade or free agency.

Jerami Grant or Zach LaVine look like the best case scenarios right now.