RealGM

Following the progress of Wagner and Sengun in their respective teams. How significant of an upgrade (or maybe downgrade defensively?) from current Thunder team had Thunder drafted Wagner instead of Giddey and kept the 16th pick instead of the 18th pick and drafted Sengun instead of Tre Mann. At the very least I think frontcourt and wing wouldve been more balanced in terms of roster built and we would have more size in the starting lineup.

They would be able to boast a starting lineup of:

Shai
J-Dub
Franz
Chet
Sengun

Would this complete our starting lineup or we would still need to trade for other all stars?

This team is significantly better. You are upgrading Giddey to Wagner and Mann to Sengun. Why is this even a question?

Obviously if we drafted Wagner instead of Giddey we would be much better right now. But I’m not mad about it - drafting is hard. Giddey wasn’t a bad pick, even in retrospect.

But I still don’t want Sengun. He’s good but I am still not a fan.

Colbinii wrote:This team is significantly better. You are upgrading Giddey to Wagner and Mann to Sengun. Why is this even a question?

I think they would too, but I always anticipate or welcome the opposite side of the argument. But my real question if you read it thoroughly was how significantly better would the Thunder be right now with those 2 in the lineups.

Would the Thunder be a top 2 team in the league with those 2. Would the Thunder be a championship level team with those 2? Would it complete the rebuild without the need of adding additional stars?

I know no one would nail every draft pick but boy we had an absolute chance of finding stars down that stacked draft and missed out. Im curious if those 2 were in Presti and the scouts' target at all.

cjmcallist wrote:Obviously if we drafted Wagner instead of Giddey we would be much better right now. But I’m not mad about it - drafting is hard. Giddey wasn’t a bad pick, even in retrospect.

But I still don’t want Sengun. He’s good but I am still not a fan.

Not mad about it. But just being human, woulda coulda shoulda, its never enough for us no matter how good our front office were.

Giddey might still pan out. Holder of the 3 youngest triple double record. I still have high hopes for him, just the fit with the Thunder leaves room to be desired.

dlughie wrote:Following the progress of Wagner and Sengun in their respective teams. How significant of an upgrade (or maybe downgrade defensively?) from current Thunder team had Thunder drafted Wagner instead of Giddey and kept the 16th pick instead of the 18th pick and drafted Sengun instead of Tre Mann. At the very least I think frontcourt and wing wouldve been more balanced in terms of roster built and we would have more size in the starting lineup.

They would be able to boast a starting lineup of:

Shai
J-Dub
Franz
Chet
Sengun

Would this complete our starting lineup or we would still need to trade for other all stars?

If you drafted Franz and Sengun in 2021, are you still in position to draft Chet and J-Dub? Changing the picks in one year changes where you're picking the next year. It's unrealistic to think changing 2021 events does not affect 2022 events.

I really wanted Sengun. I certainly would've taken him over Giddey. He wasn't entirely dissimilar as a prospect to Giddey, but I thought Sengun had a much better sense of what he was (positionally) and possessed a significantly higher skill level. With that stated, I'm still not sure how he gets on with Oklahoma City. Sengun is not a 'one size fits all' type of player. He doesn't fit with what Oklahoma City does and I'm not going to assume that Daigneault would've adapted for Sengun's benefit. His development and trajectory would've progressed differently. And he supposedly stated on a recent podcast that he wasn't keen on Oklahoma City when he worked out here. I'm guessing that factored into Presti's math.

Wagner is rapidly becoming one of the most overrated players in the NBA. He is a quality player, to be sure, but he doesn't actually possess any skills that separate him from most NBA players. His only real advantage is his positional height/length. Beyond that, he possesses a veteran's understanding of the game. He is a good defender, because he understands his role and how to use his length, but he isn't anything resembling a lockdown defender and he isn't versatile. He lacks physicality, so he plays a lot smaller than he is around the basket. He understands what the defense is trying to accomplish. He uses his length as an added buffer to prevent guys from getting by him. His length allows him to challenge shots without getting right up on the offensive player. He isn't a plus shooter. He isn't a plus finisher. I really like him as a player, but he is far less talented than Mikal Bridges, for instance. I think he has a decent chance of living up to his next contract, but he is never going to be an engine. He can't brute force his way through opposition to make plays when plays are needed. If he were in OKC, he never would've walked into the same role and he wouldn't have the same stat line, so the perception of him as a player would be very different right now.

If things were different, then they wouldn't be the same. So this is kind of a pointless endeavor. Would we have Holmgren if we drafted either of those players? I don't know. Would I rather have either of those players over Holmgren? I would not.

With the benefit of hindsight sure ,

Draft Wagner
Draft Trey Murphy
Draft Herbert jones
Trade one pick in the 30s away
Still draft wiggins

I wanted Sengun badly in this draft for the Thunder. Just trying to guess why Presti didn't pull the trigger is that at the time of the draft Sengun had similar strengths and weakness as Giddey. Weakness being not a great 3 pointer and defensive concerns. (note: i realize that Sengun is mostly looking good on D this year). And maybe Presti didn't think he could take on both of these guys despite their great strenghts. And wanted his potentially weak link on D on the permeiter. Just a theory. Maybe OKC just screwed up the Sengun eval like a lot of teams in that 2021 draft. The signs were there.

However I am absolutley thrilled with JDub and Chet and am not using the time machine if it could screw up our 2022 draft.

in a redraft i don't think these guys would be available at 6th:

barnes
cade
mobley
sengun
franz

realistically, in a redraft giddey remains one of the best options, but at this point i would take jalen johson at 6th.

funny thing is: in 2021 i would have drafted sengun 6th overall, not nowing he would last until 16th pick. but back in 2021 SGA wasn't the juggernaut he is now so i could downplay fit next to SGA then and I can't now (and in a year or two maybe i'll say the same about jdub, but not yet).

i think we can say presti was a bit lucky to have chet in 2022.

otoh, i wasn't that high on barnes, displeased with the amount of interest by thunder's fo in him, and right now he would be my first overall in a redraft, and possibly the one player i would trade the farm for