Simone Biles

[Balls Deep]

Weak move. All this mental health **** is nonsense. Spoiled multimillionaires folding under pressure of playing games. Those aren’t real problems. Real problems are struggling to feed/provide for your family.

[Andi Obst]

Weak move. All this mental health **** is nonsense. Spoiled multimillionaires folding under pressure of playing games. Those aren’t real problems. Real problems are struggling to feed/provide for your family.

You actually typed this and thought "yeah, this is want I want to post."

Just unbelievable stuff going on this thread. That's probably the worst post I've seen though. Soo...congrats, I guess?

[13th Man]

She could have just released the story at the beginning that her ankle was hurt. Would that have been better?

Or just face the tough reality like every other athlete. It sucks for her that she was built up to be super-human and that everything came to a head at the biggest meet in the world but this is the cruel reality of sports. The window to be elite in gymnastics is tiny, and it looks to me like may have closed on her.

I watched her at the Olympic trials and they hyped the crap out of her then as well with her failing to live up to expectations. They brushed it off to be a subpar performance which was fine but could a string of subpar performances be due to a natural decline of physical abilities rather than blaming it on something else like mental health?

What does "face the tough reality like every other athlete" mean? Explain that in detail. What's that supposed to look like? What does she have to do to do that? Sounds like a lot of vague nothing to me.

Easy. It means to make appropriate adjustments and carry forth in the spirit of competition and for her team and country.

One thing that I don't get is that if she is so good that her routine is an 11/10 on the difficulty scale where the judges need to dumb down her scores, why can't she adjust the routine to make it a 9/10 rather than 11/10? In any sport, individuals and teams have to make adjustments on the fly all the time.

Or is it because she'd rather concede than face the harsh reality of her not being as good as she once was?

[CoP]

Also, the copious number of posts saying that what she did was quitting perfectly demonstrates the widespread ignorance about mental health.

We just went through an NBA playoffs where multiple stars missed crucial games due to injury. Did they quit?

That's how we should think of this. Biles didn't quit, she had an injury. They even showed a video of her performing a vault and how she got lost in the air while she was flipping and twisting, and how she was supposed to do 2.5 twists on it but ended up doing 1.5. if she tried to push through her injury, she could have been paralyzed.

[Balls Deep]

I don't see much of a difference between Simone Biles and Ben Simmons. Zero mental fortitude. One absolutely destroyed by fans and media. The other getting the bubble wrap treatment.

Big facts. If she’s a hero then Ben is a bigger one.

[13th Man]

Also, the copious number of posts saying that what she did was quitting perfectly demonstrates the widespread ignorance about mental health.

We just went through an NBA playoffs where multiple stars missed crucial games due to injury. Did they quit?

That's how we should think of this. Biles didn't quit, she had an injury. They even showed a video of her performing a vault and how she got lost in the air while she was flipping and twisting, and how she was supposed to do 2.5 twists on it but ended up doing 1.5. if she tried to push through her injury, she could have been paralyzed.

She said that she felt fine physically and that there wasn't any injury. Her original reasoning was that there was immense pressure from social media and that this wasn't fun for her anymore.

Have you ever played a sport or done an activity where your body could no longer do what it used to be able to do? At the Olympics, which is the pinnacle of sports difficulty and physical demands on the body, is it plausible that she has run into a situation where she could no longer perform those extremely difficult routines as she used to?

[CoP]

Also, the copious number of posts saying that what she did was quitting perfectly demonstrates the widespread ignorance about mental health.

We just went through an NBA playoffs where multiple stars missed crucial games due to injury. Did they quit?

That's how we should think of this. Biles didn't quit, she had an injury. They even showed a video of her performing a vault and how she got lost in the air while she was flipping and twisting, and how she was supposed to do 2.5 twists on it but ended up doing 1.5. if she tried to push through her injury, she could have been paralyzed.

She said that she felt fine physically and that there wasn't any injury. Her original reasoning was that there was immense pressure from social media and that this wasn't fun for her anymore.

Have you ever played a sport or done an activity where your body could no longer do what it used to be able to do? At the Olympics, which is the pinnacle of sports difficulty and physical demands on the body, is it plausible that she has run into a situation where she could no longer perform those extremely difficult routines as she used to?

My point flew way over your head. I didn't say she had a physical injury.

[13th Man]

All athletes have to adjust their games to be able to continue, Vince Carter stopped dunking and focused on 3's. Even Lebron had to change his game as well.

If Simone Biles is no longer able to perform these 11/10 routines, why not tune down the routines to a 9/10 and still be able to be remain competitive and have a better chance of success? We caught a glimpse of her bumbling at the Olympics trials but nobody would accept that as reality.

It's because she had too much pride in her abilities and pressure from the media to be heads and shoulders above everybody else so when she couldn't live up to the hype and expectations, it was easier to quit than face the harsh reality.

Look at everybody running to her defense and calling this brave and heroic, chalking it up to mental health. Just goes to show that it's become way too easy to blame any of your woes or shortcomings on other people or entities these days.

[Jstock12]

Weak move. All this mental health **** is nonsense. Spoiled multimillionaires folding under pressure of playing games. Those aren’t real problems. Real problems are struggling to feed/provide for your family.

Ah the classic logical fallacy. Struggling to provide for your family is a problem, therefore all other problems are not problems! Yay for abuse victims then, they can finally move on. As long as you have a million or two in your bank account, you're immune to any possible problems?

[13th Man]

Also, the copious number of posts saying that what she did was quitting perfectly demonstrates the widespread ignorance about mental health.

We just went through an NBA playoffs where multiple stars missed crucial games due to injury. Did they quit?

That's how we should think of this. Biles didn't quit, she had an injury. They even showed a video of her performing a vault and how she got lost in the air while she was flipping and twisting, and how she was supposed to do 2.5 twists on it but ended up doing 1.5. if she tried to push through her injury, she could have been paralyzed.

She said that she felt fine physically and that there wasn't any injury. Her original reasoning was that there was immense pressure from social media and that this wasn't fun for her anymore.

Have you ever played a sport or done an activity where your body could no longer do what it used to be able to do? At the Olympics, which is the pinnacle of sports difficulty and physical demands on the body, is it plausible that she has run into a situation where she could no longer perform those extremely difficult routines as she used to?

My point flew way over your head. I didn't say she had a physical injury.

I guess it did because you specifically stated, "That's how we should think of this. Biles didn't quit, she had an injury"

[bkseven]

Anyone notice she didn’t look all that excited for Sunis gold medal finish

[CoP]

She said that she felt fine physically and that there wasn't any injury. Her original reasoning was that there was immense pressure from social media and that this wasn't fun for her anymore.

Have you ever played a sport or done an activity where your body could no longer do what it used to be able to do? At the Olympics, which is the pinnacle of sports difficulty and physical demands on the body, is it plausible that she has run into a situation where she could no longer perform those extremely difficult routines as she used to?

My point flew way over your head. I didn't say she had a physical injury.

I guess it did because you specifically stated, "That's how we should think of this. Biles didn't quit, she had an injury"

Yep, it did.

[13th Man]

I'm sorry but I'm not buying the mental breakdown excuse, she didn't get to where she is by being mentally weak. She has fought through injuries and adversities before to win multiple competitions.

Imo, she was still trying to perform extremely difficult routines that her body isn't as capable as it once was. Everybody knows that the window of eliteness in gymnastics is much smaller than those of other sports so her coaches should have realized this to make appropriate adjustments.

Remember when Kobe (RIP) went on a chucking spree for awhile because he couldn't accept that he was on the decline? Not saying that Simone is at the same level of decline, the point being that the pride that she had in herself and expectations placed on her was so high that she couldn't live up to them. This is not the same as going through a mental breakdown imo.

[SA37]

Isn’t refusing interviews also the kind of “privacy” you’re asking of them? I don’t know why your take is so cynical - if the issues are valid, withdrawing is the same thing it would be with a physical injury. Like, maybe they could rake in media bucks going on talk shows to hype memoirs, but.. most (all?j athletes who have revealed mental health issues haven’t gotten million dollar Netflix deals. Like, they’re on big stages. There’s not really an easy way to not get attention, and a maximally circumspect withdrawal as if they’re experiencing something shameful and best left unacknowledged wouldn’t be healthy or fair.

Every player and their publicist knows there is no way the French Open (I mistakenly said it was Wimbledon, which Osaka subsequently skipped) or any major tournament is going to allow the star players to skip interviews (where many times there are products sponsors pay big money to place products or their logo, depending on the sport). The NBA, for example, has explicit rules against this.

While some tennis tournaments have different rules, in general players must appear at a post-match news conference at a Grand Slam event if a journalist requests their presence, whether they win or lose. Fines for refusing are often little more than a few thousand dollars. In 2015, Venus Williams was fined $3,000 for skipping a news conference after a loss at the French Open. She and her sister, Serena, were fined $4,000 each in 2010 for skipping a news conference at Wimbledon...

...Attending a news conference, regardless of the outcome of a match, is considered an obligation tennis players fulfill to promote their sport, which has struggled to maintain coverage in some markets in recent years as the budgets of news organizations have been slashed.

Billie Jean King, the Hall of Fame player who helped create the women’s pro tour, has spoken about visiting the sports editors in the markets in which she played to beg them to send sportswriters to cover matches during the tour’s early years and the importance of players speaking with the press to promote the sport.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/26/sports/tennis/naomi-osaka-french-open-no-interviews.html

Had Osaka and her team approached the French Open organizers privately about working out some sort of arrangement, then one could see an effort to keep things low-key. However, Osaka had a very public announcement of not doing interviews and the public fallout was the biggest story in tennis and arguably in sports. Osaka already has a history of using her platform to draw lots of media attention to things she believes are important; she has also been very active using her endorsements to do the same. Of course, this has the off-shoot of drawing attention to her and it is to be expected the media will continue to ask her about her activism and her opinion on other political or social matters -- or look to her social media where she has also issued public statements. This was her decision.

Osaka is one of the most influential players in the world. Last year, tennis officials suspended play at the Western & Southern Open, a United States Open tuneup, after Osaka announced that she would default her semifinal match to draw attention to the issue of police violence against Black people following the shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wis.

The suspension of play, a move that several sports undertook as athletes threatened a boycott, allowed Osaka to remain in the tournament. She won her postponed semifinal match and then defaulted the final because of an injury.

Days later, she began her triumphant quest to win her second U.S. Open championship. She walked to the court for each match wearing a mask with the name of a different person of color who had been a victim of racist violence.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/26/sports/tennis/naomi-osaka-french-open-no-interviews.html

But certainly [Osaka's] profile, well outfitted as it is, provides a glimpse into her business — and like the meme decrees, business is boomin’. Ms. Osaka is covering everything from ears to rears, making headphones with Beats, athleisure with Nike and denim with Levi’s. Dresses? She designed them with Adeam, a Japanese-American brand. Swimwear? She crafted a collection with Frankies Bikinis.

In April, she announced that she would serve as C.E.O. of her own company: Kinlò, a line of skin care made for people with melanated skin tones, produced with GoDaddy. According to Forbes, she made $37.4 million in endorsements and tournament prizes between May 2019 and May 2020, the most a female athlete has ever earned in a single year.

“She’s the first professional tennis player we’ve worked with,” said Jen Sey, the brand president of Levi’s, “but for us, she rises above that. She’s such a powerful voice, the way she’s encouraged others to speak out about equality. She’s outspoken. That’s what we like about her. There’s no point in partnering with someone if you’re just going to tell them what to do.”

With Nike, she founded an academy to introduce more young women to sports; with L.V.M.H., she joined a judging panel to choose an emerging fashion designer worthy of a 300,000-euro grant. Her imprint seems to be suddenly on everything from enterprise management software (Workday) to water (Bodyarmor).

“She is the perfect storm,” said Cindy Gallop, a brand consultant who has worked with several of Ms. Osaka’s sponsors. “She’s a spectacular athlete. She has a strong sense of social justice, she’s prepared to speak her mind.”...

...In September, Ms. Osaka won the U.S. Open while declaring solidarity with the Black Lives Matter movement through her face masks. From a corporate sponsorship perspective, this was a turning point: taking a stance increased her brand value. She shortly thereafter teamed up with Basic Space, an online swap meet for hype beasts (sample items for sale include a St. John coat and a Range Rover) to sell 500 masks designed by her 25-year-old sister, Mari. They sold out in 30 minutes, with proceeds going to UNICEF.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/19/style/naomi-osaka-sweetgreen-beats-nike.html?

But in 2020, Osaka found her voice and the self-possession to speak up when and how she saw fit, a massive leap for a global superstar who once felt too self-conscious to exhort herself even on the court. With time to engage with civil rights protests because of the pandemic’s pause of tennis, Osaka found the space to unravel her thoughts to convey an urgent and unequivocal demand for change.

In doing so, she came to be as precise and efficient in her protest as she has been in her tennis, offering up her version of soft power: deploying bold activism shaped by her unique understanding of the world and her place in it....

...
Without the tunnel vision of a tennis schedule, Osaka showed the effects of the psyche-scarring onslaught of violence against Black Americans. In the days after George Floyd was killed by the Minneapolis police in May, she flew with Dunston to protests there and later wrote an opinion piece for Esquire challenging that society “take on systemic racism head-on, that the police protect us and don’t kill us.”

Though Osaka’s assertion of each part of her identity — Japanese, Haitian, raised for a time in the United States — has given her profitable endorsement lanes, she has often highlighted her Blackness when commentators minimize it...

...With Osaka cut off from IRL social touchstones and without access to her day job, her TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and other platforms provided the most candid way for her to speak up as she had pledged. When she tweeted her support for the Black Lives Matter movement in June and encouraged participation in a B.L.M. protest in Osaka, Japan, she faced social media trolls who called her a terrorist and a widespread backlash from Japanese people who viewed the issue as an outsider’s cause.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/16/sports/tennis/naomi-osaka-protests-open.html?

After all of this fallout from the French Open and skipping Wimbledon, Osaka decided to be heavily involved in the Japanese Olympics despite he supposed desire to avoid the spotlight. I think this is beyond hypocritical.

In my opinion, you just can't have your cake and eat it too. Osaka nor anyone who decides to have such a vocal and active presence cannot pick and choose when to turn it off. Our decisions and our actions have consequences, and this is just an example of a person who doesn't want to accept the bad that comes along with the good. That's just not how life works.

I would argue that because of what Osaka did tennis has received a lot more attention than if she had just given interviews after her matches. So what's the problem?

I don't think anyone would argue that Osaka has been extremely influential both on and off the court for tennis, especially the Women's game. That's not what we're debating.

The accoutrements -- millions of dollars, fame, influence, prestige, sponsorship deals, magazine covers, top-of-the-line training and medical treatment, favorable treatment...etc -- that come for hitting a ball with a racket, shooting a ball through a hoop, or doing flips in the air are all made possible because of the 24/7 in-your-face marketing and the resulting status this brings these athletes in society. All of that comes with a price, such as immense pressure to perform, unreasonable expectations, criticism for not performing up to standard, intense media scrutiny, detractors, haters, insults...etc. You can't have one without the other.

Famous people can choose whether or not -- or how much -- they want to be involved in that circus. Osaka over and over again has chosen to cash in on her success by being outspoken about social issues (something, for example, Michael Jordan chose not to do in his playing days), by signing lucrative endorsement deals, and having a massive presence on social media. No one forced her to do that.

Osaka chose to make her mental health issues public when she decided to make a confrontational spectacle with the organizers at the French Open and continuing that public forum on her social media. That is her choice.

I just find it to be a hypocritical one given the choices she has made over the course of her career.

[Michael Lucky]

I don't think any less or any more of her from her decision. You have to be in the right mental state to compete in something where numerous things could go wrong. Having said that, her decision doesn't need to be glorified either....

[Pointgod]

She certainly has the right to quit in the middle of competition but she shouldnt be called a hero because of that. I dont believe the mental health excuse for a second, she simply messed up and then claimed that she felt too much pressure. She knew about the pressure before she competed so thats a lazy excuse, an excuse she knew is a win-win for her. The whole thing is pathetic honestly and anyone who calls her a hero for what she did is a person I dont want in my foxhole.

Read on Twitter

[Pointgod]

I'm sorry but I'm not buying the mental breakdown excuse, she didn't get to where she is by being mentally weak. She has fought through injuries and adversities before to win multiple competitions.

Imo, she was still trying to perform extremely difficult routines that her body isn't as capable as it once was. Everybody knows that the window of eliteness in gymnastics is much smaller than those of other sports so her coaches should have realized this to make appropriate adjustments.

Remember when Kobe (RIP) went on a chucking spree for awhile because he couldn't accept that he was on the decline? Not saying that Simone is at the same level of decline, the point being that the pride that she had in herself and expectations placed on her was so high that she couldn't live up to them. This is not the same as going through a mental breakdown imo.

Please show us your qualifications to speak on anyone’s mental state.

Read on Twitter

[Pointgod]

Weak move. All this mental health **** is nonsense. Spoiled multimillionaires folding under pressure of playing games. Those aren’t real problems. Real problems are struggling to feed/provide for your family.

Show us your expertise that makes you qualified to speak on anyone’s mental health or ability to perform in their sport.

Read on Twitter

[13th Man]

My point flew way over your head. I didn't say she had a physical injury.

I guess it did because you specifically stated, "That's how we should think of this. Biles didn't quit, she had an injury"

Yep, it did.

Ok, so you're purposely trying to conflate an injury in sports with mental illness. Got it.

[Lunartic]

So does anyone actually have any information from Biles herself concerning why she dropped out? Everything else is speculation and outsiders looking in

From what I've read, she said she wasn't "having fun" that doesn't sound like an injury or dealing with sexual abuse or some form of disorientation.

The posters that are suggesting she is dealing with some severe mental illness or stress - where are you getting this from?