Simone Biles

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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#441 » by nfmos » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:43 am

13th Man wrote:You guys realize that Biles is competing on borrowed time right? The peak age for Olympic women's gymnasts are in their teens and most retire by their early 20s out of their prime. With women's gymnastics, it relies on a very small frame with maximum flexibility and agility hence why their bodies quickly grow out of their peak frame.

Imo, nothing happened to her mentally. GOATs or potential GOATs in every sport have never mentally crumbled as she did here. They just don't do that. The fact that Biles has achieved all that she has up to this point just shows how mentally strong she really is.

I think that this excuse was more of a copout than anything. She wanted to preserve the perception of her being heads and shoulders above everybody else when she clearly isn't anymore. She was in the past but not currently. Her underwhelming performance at the Olympic Trials signified this but nobody really took account of it because of all the immense hype surrounding her which she benefited from financially as well.

I'm sorry but you can't have it ALL ways. She is deserves to reap the accolades of the past, nobody can take any of that away from that but what has she done currently to deserve such high praise? Decide to continue with extremely difficult routines that she can no longer perform? That's just setting her and her team up for failure.

So she comes into the Olympics with a picture of a goat on her uniform, flounders again, yet gets a free pass for quitting blaming it on mental health. All the while getting to keep her reputation in tact as being so much better than everyone else. Again, you can't have it all ways, saying that she's too good for the competition while not having done anything today to back that up. All she did was save herself from getting truly exposed in the individuals competition imo, that is not praise worthy nor brave.

I'm sorry but I am not so gullible and naive as some of you guys. I have tons of life experience, been watching all sorts of sports for decades and have a bit better understanding of sports performance and psychology than some kid with a 4 year degree in health sciences calling themselves a mental health expert in all aspects of life including sports. If doctors with PHDs can be sol biased when it comes to recent political issues, what makes you think some grad with a B.A. cannot? So spare me with the rhetoric that you cannot have a say in the matter unless you are "qualified".


So even though she was suffering from aerial disorientation, she should have continued flipping through the air? You realize she almost lost it and hurt herself during that first vault right?

What a ridiculous take.

Its not even about being gullible or naive, its about not being an ***hole. Some people just can't help themselves i guess.
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#442 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:50 am

CallMeKahn wrote:Love arm chair gymnasts and gold medalists.


Seriously. Quite frankly it screams to me that these people don't actually put themselves in the place of the athlete when they watch sports, which is really alien to me.

I think part of what people are missing here is that gymnastics isn't first and foremost a sport the way the main topics on RealGM are. While you can have basketball skill exhibitions, the scoreboard is such an objectively intrinsic aspect of the sport that it tends to come along even there (Harlem Globetrotters).

In a very real sense, any sport that is fundamentally about objective scoring is a sport anyone can compete in.

But when we talk about stuff like gymnastics in the Summer Olympics or figure skating in the Winter Olympics, what we're talking about are artistically-oriented athletic endeavors that have been artificially turned into a competition, which in time has driven these sports toward objectively quantifiable tricks which naturally get more and more extreme - and more dangerous - except when rules are put in place to curtail them (which gymnastics has done to many things).

When Evil Knievel did his stunt performances, part of the draw was that he really might die. He was taking his life into his hands, and that was the deal with the devil he knew he was making, and what he was committing to when you bought a ticket.

But this is not what the Olympics have ever been expected to be about, and particularly not with a sport personified by teenager girls (though granted Biles is in her mid-20s now). This is supposed to be a celebration of the human body, not a bloodsport.
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#443 » by nfmos » Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:01 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
MostValQuitter wrote:There's nothing heroic about quitting.

I am glad she is getting help for whatever she needs but she should have realized she wasn't able to do the Olympics from a mental standpoint before cracking during an event. She made the decision to compete and then quit and at the end of the day cost someone else a spot and their dream of competing in the Olympics.


So, I don't want to single you out as I know a lot of people are saying similar things but, man:

Y'all, most of the sports we discuss on RealGM are way, way, way less dangerous the what Simone Biles does out there. Football is the only one even close, and in football the danger is largely about what will happen to you over the rest of your life, not the danger of breaking your neck if you do things slightly wrong.

Moreover: As much as the sport of gymnastics has fallen down on the job of protecting young gymnasts from their coaches, there's a long history of protecting gymnasts by trying to make the sport less dangerous, because when they don't, you end up with paralyzed 12 year olds. (Go watch Olga Korbut on the Uneven Bars and imagine what happens if she doesn't manage to catch the bar as she dives straight down head-first toward the floor, and know that the gymnastics world doesn't have to imagine, because stuff like that actually happened.)



:clap: :clap: :clap:

Thank you. Its so mind numbing that people can't see this. In additon to Korbut , what about Kerri Strug? Or Dominque Moceanu? There are also many examples of teenage gymnasts being pushed to perform while injured and some literally were paralyzed for life, and some died. Look up Elena Mukhina, Julissa Gomez, Adriana Duffy, Sang Lan, Melanie Coleman,etc. And those are just the world class gymnasts we know about, imagine how many more injuries occur that we don't hear about.

Its just crazy how some people are so insistent in their claimed knowledge of these teenage girls mental states that they overlook the life and death dangers of competing in gymnastics if arent 100% mentally in it.

To me, she is a hero, because she pushed back against the pressure that has historically coerced these girls to compete even if it wasn't in their best interests to do so. If this gives a little more strength for young gymnasts to push back against some of these win at all cost coaches, and in the process saves some lives, then hell yes she is a hero.
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#444 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:08 am

13th Man wrote:You guys realize that Biles is competing on borrowed time right? The peak age for Olympic women's gymnasts are in their teens and most retire by their early 20s out of their prime. With women's gymnastics, it relies on a very small frame with maximum flexibility and agility hence why their bodies quickly grow out of their peak frame.

Imo, nothing happened to her mentally. GOATs or potential GOATs in every sport have never mentally crumbled as she did here. They just don't do that. The fact that Biles has achieved all that she has up to this point just shows how mentally strong she really is.

I think that this excuse was more of a copout than anything. She wanted to preserve the perception of her being heads and shoulders above everybody else when she clearly isn't anymore. She was in the past but not currently. Her underwhelming performance at the Olympic Trials signified this but nobody really took account of it because of all the immense hype surrounding her which she benefited from financially as well.

I'm sorry but you can't have it ALL ways. She is deserves to reap the accolades of the past, nobody can take any of that away from that but what has she done currently to deserve such high praise? Decide to continue with extremely difficult routines that she can no longer perform? That's just setting her and her team up for failure.

So she comes into the Olympics with a picture of a goat on her uniform, flounders again, yet gets a free pass for quitting blaming it on mental health. All the while getting to keep her reputation in tact as being so much better than everyone else. Again, you can't have it all ways, saying that she's too good for the competition while not having done anything today to back that up. All she did was save herself from getting truly exposed in the individuals competition imo, that is not praise worthy nor brave.

I'm sorry but I am not so gullible and naive as some of you guys. I have tons of life experience, been watching all sorts of sports for decades and have a bit better understanding of sports performance and psychology than some kid with a 4 year degree in health sciences calling themselves a mental health expert in all aspects of life including sports. If doctors with PHDs can be sol biased when it comes to recent political issues, what makes you think some grad with a B.A. cannot? So spare me with the rhetoric that you cannot have a say in the matter unless you are "qualified".


I don't think you need advanced degrees to have insight, but I think you've let cynicism create imagine an intricate story that's not very realistic.

The reality is that Biles' legacy is going to be damaged by all of this, and that Biles isn't ignorant of this. She knew the importance of earning lots of golds in these games to her legacy, else she'd have already retired. Her explanation of what's happening to her ain't going to get those golds back, and she's now not going to live up to that "Olympic dynasty" status that she really needed to match up with the Phelpses and the Bolts of the world.

Biles coming into the Olympics looked to be a strong candidate for Female Athlete of the Half Century, and that case is seriously damaged now.

Let me put it another, more gymnastics specific way:

What makes Simone Biles special in gymnastics is her power. It's unprecedented relative to body in female sports.

This wasn't a situation where an athlete was in danger of being "exposed" in the sense of their killer edge not actually being killer. Nobody doubts Biles physical power. And frankly, her power has made the sport even more of a danger to her body, and so there's already been concern for her safety.

No, what Biles always had in the past and was lacking now is something else: Control. She lost control. She knew she'd lost control. And she knew she still had all that power. I think it's a wise per that recognizes that power without control is always dangerous to someone. In gymnastics, you hurt yourself.
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#445 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:26 am

Pelon chingon wrote:
Spoiler:
There is a new "it girl" in women's gymnastics, congrats to Sunisa Lee from Minn who brought home the gold for the united states. Sunisa "suni" lee is the first Hmong American to participate on the U.S Olympic team and she repped the united states proudly and bravely.


https://www.npr.org/sections/tokyo-olympics-live-updates/2021/07/29/1022077328/as-gymnast-sunisa-lee-goes-for-gold-her-hometown-hmong-community-has-her-back


I'm really happy she won. Love seeing a Hmong-American shine, and I'm also more of an Uneven Bars fan than I am a Vault fan. Good chance Suni will be my favorite to watch this Olympics even if Biles comes back and dominates - though we'll see what specialists come out of the woodwork.
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#446 » by Winsome Gerbil » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:39 am

This was a pretty good summation by a guy trying to dodge both the apologists and the neandrathals:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/olympics/hern%c3%a1ndez-simone-biles-excels-as-a-human-being-but-fails-as-a-gymnast/ar-AAMHZqq?li=BBnbfcL
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Re: OT - Simone Biles 

Post#447 » by SA37 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:26 am

Sedale Threatt wrote:
SA37 wrote:Again, I am not questioning the validity of their mental health issues; I am saying the manner in which both of these situations have happened seem staged/rehearsed/planned in order to extract as much media attention as possible and laying the groundwork for future projects, such as documentaries, comeback stories, interviews, and careers that go well beyond sports.


I have to say, I was definitely on the fence about this, probably leaning towards the "suck it up" camp. Intense, severe scrutiny and pressure just comes with the territory when you're a high-level athlete. (Hell, I played extremely low-level high school sports, and I was almost paralyzed with nerves before some games, just out of the fear of failure and not wanting to let my teammates down.) But reading idiotic opinions like this have swung me in the complete opposite direction.



Michael Phelps revealed the extraordinary pressures and mental health struggles that he faced in a recent documentary called The Weight of Gold: the title says it all.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/29/simone-biles-sporting-success-mental-demands

In a statement on Monday announcing her withdrawal from the event, Osaka said she was leaving the tournament so that the focus could return to tennis after days of attention and widespread discussion.

“This isn’t a situation I ever imagined or intended when I posted a few days ago,” Osaka wrote on social media. “I think now the best thing for the tournament, the other players and my well-being is that I withdraw so that everyone can get back to focusing on the tennis going on in Paris.

“I never wanted to be a distraction and I accept that my timing was not ideal and my message could have been clearer. More importantly I would never trivialise mental health or use the term lightly.”...

...On Thursday evening Osaka’s older sister, Mari, attempted to support her sister by providing further context of her struggles in a post on Reddit. She said Osaka had been hurt by frequent questioning about her ability on clay and that she felt she was being “told that she has a bad record on clay.” After losing in the first round of the WTA tournament in Rome, Mari Osaka said her sister was “not OK mentally.” After some criticism, Mari Osaka deleted her post...

...Osaka concluded her statement by saying she suffers “huge waves of anxiety” before speaking with the media. “So here in Paris I was already feeling vulnerable and anxious so I thought it was better to exercise self‑care and skip the press conferences. I announced it preemptively because I do feel like the rules are quite outdated in parts and I wanted to highlight that,” she wrote.


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/31/naomi-osaka-withdraws-french-open-press-conference-fines-tennis

[Wilkinson] has heard about how Kearnan Myall opened up about his own mental health problems in a recent interview with the Guardian. He knows there are a lot of players out there going through the same things he suffered with himself. Anxiety, depression, angst. “The guys I was playing with when I started came from the amateur era, and they definitely had a better sense of balance because they had the grounding of working in an office one day and playing rugby the next,” he says. “They knew that the same guys they were working with in that office might be there in the crowd watching them play, so they understood that it was supposed to be for fun and entertainment.”...

...Jonny Wilkinson was speaking as the ambassador of a new mental health campaign launched this month by health insurer Vitality.


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/sep/08/jonny-wilkinson-mental-iilness-rugby-union

There’s a reason for the rhinestone goat outlined on Simone Biles’ leotard.

At 24, Biles has redefined what’s possible in gymnastics by performing complex skills few in the world can match. It’s why she’s acknowledged to be the Greatest of All Time (try abbreviating it).

When it comes to monetizing her abilities through sponsorships and other marketing deals, Biles may be just as special thanks to her unique combination of generational talent, leadership ability, social advocacy and knack for managing her own narrative....

...“The sorts of personalities that come around are few and far between,” said Americus Reed II, professor of marketing at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. He compared Biles to Muhammad Ali — like the boxing great who transcended the ring to become an antiwar and civil rights icon, she is one of the few who can “take her brand with her” beyond gymnastics and into the “greater cultural stratosphere.”...

...Biles has also been strategic about how she spends her brand capital.

Although she typically mentions fewer brands a year in her social media posts than former Olympians such as Bolt, the Jamaican sprinter, or U.S. gymnast Nastia Liukin, the ones she does post about are usually related to health and fitness, said Krishna Subramanian, chief executive and co-founder of Captiv8, an influencer marketing platform that collected and analyzed these data....

...Comparing a selected group of standout Olympic athletes, Hookit found that Bolt had an estimated sponsorship value of $1.5 million, according to the company’s calculations. That figure was determined based on the number of Bolt’s followers, interactions across social media, rate of engagement and other factors.

Biles had an estimated sponsorship value of about $628,000. Phelps’ value was estimated at about $96,000, with Felix at about $75,000.

Of course, not all athletes are active on social media or do endorsements or ads there. And differences in career arc from athlete to athlete and sport to sport make apples-to-apples comparisons difficult. Both Phelps and Bolt have had careers spanning many more years than Biles, and those careers began before social media was widely used.

“It’s a little bit tough to make a direct comparison because obviously Phelps is finished, where Biles is still competing so it’s tough to tell where the trajectory of her career will go,” said Kris Mathis, founder of SponsorPitch, a platform that tracks sponsorship spending. “I think the upcoming Olympics will be a pivotal event for her.”

Compared with 2016, Biles’ marketability seems “very strong” and potentially “even greater,” said Kwak of the University of Michigan.

“With all the things that happened around our society in the past year,” he said, “I think there is a greater chance she will be more influential than just being a gymnast winning another gold medal.”




https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-07-26/simone-biles-and-endorsements


Simone Biles Leaves Nike for Partnership With Athleta
The gymnast will have her own performance wear line and activist platform at a female-focused apparel company

...With Atleta, Biles will have her own performance wearline, including products for wearing to and from the gym.

She said the company has also pledged to support the post-Olympics gymnastics tour that she is planning to mount herself, rather than the usual tour backed by US Gymnastics, the sport's national governing body. The tour could reshape professional opportunities for elite gymnasts for years to come.

Athleta and Biles said that [b]the company would give her a platform to be an activist
participating in "honest conversations" with women and girls....[/b]



https://www.wsj.com/articles/simone-biles-gymnastics-nike-athleta-11619140549


Biles could still compete in other gymnastic events during the Olympics. She also has a solid history of gymnastic accomplishments, including four gold medals and a bronze medal at the 2016 Olympics. She has earned five more all-around titles in world championships since 2013. That earns the 24-year-old a lasting athletic legacy that sponsors can capitalize on.

"We are past the time when athletes like Simone are valued simply for their athletic prowess," said Jim Andrews, founder of A-Mark Partnership Strategies. "She has earned a place in gymnastics history, and has proven herself to be an amazing spokesperson and influencer who has much to offer brands even without competing and eventually in retirement."

Biles split with longtime sponsor Nike in April to sign with Athleta, the athletic clothing arm of Gap. Biles' deal with Athleta also includes sponsorship of the Gold Over America victory tour later this year, which will star her as well as other USA Gymnastics team members.



https://www.npr.org/sections/tokyo-olympics-live-updates/2021/07/29/1022411449/simone-biles-olympic-sponsors-praise-her-for-putting-mental-health-first


In an episode of her Facebook Watch documentary series, Simone vs. Herself, Biles talks candidly about how Nassar’s abuse impacted her. “I was, like, super depressed. I didn’t want to leave my room, and I didn’t want to go anywhere. I kind of just shut everybody out. I don’t know, it was probably hard for me,” she said.

Biles admitted a few months ago that a big reason she chose to return for this Olympics was to hold the governing authorities in her sport accountable for enabling Nassar and failing to protect girls and women. “I just feel like everything that happened, I had to come back to the sport to be a voice, to have change happen,” Biles told NBC’s Today show in April. “Because I feel like if there weren’t a remaining survivor in the sport, they would’ve just brushed it to the side.”...

...Michael Phelps, who has been extremely candid about struggling with depression and anxiety, said Biles’s situation “broke my heart,” but he hoped that her withdrawal would make athletes feel more comfortable sharing their mental-health struggles.

“I hope this is an eye-opening experience, I really do,” said Phelps, who is serving as a commentator for NBC’s Olympic coverage. “I hope this is an opportunity for us to jump on board and to even blow this mental-health thing even more wide open. It is so much bigger than we could even ever imagine. This is something that’s gonna take a lot of time, a lot of hard work, and people who are willing to help.”


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/07/simone-biles-doesnt-need-to-look-invincible/619606/

Simone Biles is the subject of a new seven-part documentary which premieres on Facebook Watch on Tuesday, June 15...


...Simone Biles released a brief trailer of the upcoming docuseries on her Instagram profile last week and here's everything you need to know ahead of Simone vs. Herself...



https://www.newsweek.com/simone-biles-facebook-documentary-watch-premiere-date-1600381


Similar to Chopra’s projects with Brady and Curry, Biles’ story and docuseries is incomplete.

Of the seven total episodes, Facebook Watch will release the first five on Tuesdays leading up to the Summer Olympics. The remaining two will be based on what happens in Tokyo, Chopra said, and Biles could return to the states with five gold medals — which would be a record for an American woman in a single Games.


https://ftw.usatoday.com/2021/06/simone-biles-documentary-gotham-chopra-gymnastics-olympics

But certainly [Osaka's] profile, well outfitted as it is, provides a glimpse into her business — and like the meme decrees, business is boomin’. Ms. Osaka is covering everything from ears to rears, making headphones with Beats, athleisure with Nike and denim with Levi’s. Dresses? She designed them with Adeam, a Japanese-American brand. Swimwear? She crafted a collection with Frankies Bikinis.

In April, she announced that she would serve as C.E.O. of her own company: Kinlò, a line of skin care made for people with melanated skin tones, produced with GoDaddy. According to Forbes, she made $37.4 million in endorsements and tournament prizes between May 2019 and May 2020, the most a female athlete has ever earned in a single year.

“She’s the first professional tennis player we’ve worked with,” said Jen Sey, the brand president of Levi’s, “but for us, she rises above that. She’s such a powerful voice, the way she’s encouraged others to speak out about equality. She’s outspoken. That’s what we like about her. There’s no point in partnering with someone if you’re just going to tell them what to do.”

With Nike, she founded an academy to introduce more young women to sports; with L.V.M.H., she joined a judging panel to choose an emerging fashion designer worthy of a 300,000-euro grant. Her imprint seems to be suddenly on everything from enterprise management software (Workday) to water (Bodyarmor).

“She is the perfect storm,” said Cindy Gallop, a brand consultant who has worked with several of Ms. Osaka’s sponsors. “She’s a spectacular athlete. She has a strong sense of social justice, she’s prepared to speak her mind.”...

...In September, Ms. Osaka won the U.S. Open while declaring solidarity with the Black Lives Matter movement through her face masks. From a corporate sponsorship perspective, this was a turning point: taking a stance increased her brand value. She shortly thereafter teamed up with Basic Space, an online swap meet for hype beasts (sample items for sale include a St. John coat and a Range Rover) to sell 500 masks designed by her 25-year-old sister, Mari. They sold out in 30 minutes, with proceeds going to UNICEF.



https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/19/style/naomi-osaka-sweetgreen-beats-nike.html?

But in 2020, Osaka found her voice and the self-possession to speak up when and how she saw fit, a massive leap for a global superstar who once felt too self-conscious to exhort herself even on the court. With time to engage with civil rights protests because of the pandemic’s pause of tennis, Osaka found the space to unravel her thoughts to convey an urgent and unequivocal demand for change.

In doing so, she came to be as precise and efficient in her protest as she has been in her tennis, offering up her version of soft power: deploying bold activism shaped by her unique understanding of the world and her place in it....

...
Without the tunnel vision of a tennis schedule, Osaka showed the effects of the psyche-scarring onslaught of violence against Black Americans. In the days after George Floyd was killed by the Minneapolis police in May, she flew with Dunston to protests there and later wrote an opinion piece for Esquire challenging that society “take on systemic racism head-on, that the police protect us and don’t kill us.”

Though Osaka’s assertion of each part of her identity — Japanese, Haitian, raised for a time in the United States — has given her profitable endorsement lanes, she has often highlighted her Blackness when commentators minimize it...

...With Osaka cut off from IRL social touchstones and without access to her day job, her TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and other platforms provided the most candid way for her to speak up as she had pledged. When she tweeted her support for the Black Lives Matter movement in June and encouraged participation in a B.L.M. protest in Osaka, Japan, she faced social media trolls who called her a terrorist and a widespread backlash from Japanese people who viewed the issue as an outsider’s cause.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/16/sports/tennis/naomi-osaka-protests-open.html?


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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#448 » by MostValQuitter » Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:39 pm

nfmos wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
MostValQuitter wrote:There's nothing heroic about quitting.

I am glad she is getting help for whatever she needs but she should have realized she wasn't able to do the Olympics from a mental standpoint before cracking during an event. She made the decision to compete and then quit and at the end of the day cost someone else a spot and their dream of competing in the Olympics.


So, I don't want to single you out as I know a lot of people are saying similar things but, man:

Y'all, most of the sports we discuss on RealGM are way, way, way less dangerous the what Simone Biles does out there. Football is the only one even close, and in football the danger is largely about what will happen to you over the rest of your life, not the danger of breaking your neck if you do things slightly wrong.

Moreover: As much as the sport of gymnastics has fallen down on the job of protecting young gymnasts from their coaches, there's a long history of protecting gymnasts by trying to make the sport less dangerous, because when they don't, you end up with paralyzed 12 year olds. (Go watch Olga Korbut on the Uneven Bars and imagine what happens if she doesn't manage to catch the bar as she dives straight down head-first toward the floor, and know that the gymnastics world doesn't have to imagine, because stuff like that actually happened.)



:clap: :clap: :clap:

Thank you. Its so mind numbing that people can't see this. In additon to Korbut , what about Kerri Strug? Or Dominque Moceanu? There are also many examples of teenage gymnasts being pushed to perform while injured and some literally were paralyzed for life, and some died. Look up Elena Mukhina, Julissa Gomez, Adriana Duffy, Sang Lan, Melanie Coleman,etc. And those are just the world class gymnasts we know about, imagine how many more injuries occur that we don't hear about.

Its just crazy how some people are so insistent in their claimed knowledge of these teenage girls mental states that they overlook the life and death dangers of competing in gymnastics if arent 100% mentally in it.

To me, she is a hero, because she pushed back against the pressure that has historically coerced these girls to compete even if it wasn't in their best interests to do so. If this gives a little more strength for young gymnasts to push back against some of these win at all cost coaches, and in the process saves some lives, then hell yes she is a hero.


None of what you are arguing about is something I actually said. What I said was if she wasn't right mentally she should have withdrawn well before it got to that point instead of quitting in the middle of an event.

I know the millennials think the world just exists in their own little bubble where their feelings and whatever they are going through is the only thing that matters but it doesn't. Her actions has consequences not only for herself but those around her like the gymnast who was forced to take her spot and compete in an event unexpectedly for does her health and her preparedness not matter? Or the dream spot she took on the team that could have went to someone else who actually wanted to be there? Or her country who may have won gold but had to settle for silver?

Anyways I don't really have anything else to say about the subject other people have questioned the seriousness of her mental health crisis I am not one of those people I'm taking her at her word that she was going through a legitimate mental breakdown. If you want to belabor that point go find someone who actually argued otherwise.
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#449 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:11 pm

MostValQuitter wrote:None of what you are arguing about is something I actually said. What I said was if she wasn't right mentally she should have withdrawn well before it got to that point instead of quitting in the middle of an event.

I know the millennials think the world just exists in their own little bubble where their feelings and whatever they are going through is the only thing that matters but it doesn't. Her actions has consequences not only for herself but those around her like the gymnast who was forced to take her spot and compete in an event unexpectedly for does her health and her preparedness not matter? Or the dream spot she took on the team that could have went to someone else who actually wanted to be there? Or her country who may have won gold but had to settle for silver?

Anyways I don't really have anything else to say about the subject other people have questioned the seriousness of her mental health crisis I am not one of those people I'm taking her at her word that she was going through a legitimate mental breakdown. If you want to belabor that point go find someone who actually argued otherwise.


Just keep in mind the timeline here:

July 25th - Biles participates in Qualifications and is still the highest performing women's gymnast in the world

July 27th - The Finals, where Biles makes one attempt before dropping out.

When you say "well before it got to that point", to me it sounds like you're saying she should have said something weeks before, but this is literally something that happened in that two day period.

While I don't have inside information, pretty confident this wasn't an issue that raised its head on the 25th given she'd already performed well that day. So the earliest she was likely to have this issue is on the 26th, and it's entirely possible that she was being told then "You got this! You've never had this issue during an event before, just give it a shot." Whatever happened, she did give it a shot, and the shot went poorly.

Re: Settle for silver. Do keep in mind that there's no reason to think the USA sans Biles was the best team.

The way they're doing the team events this year, you get 4 gymnasts performing. Russia's top 3 gymnasts were in general considerably stronger overall than any American other than Biles & Lee, and their 4th performer was a single event specialist.

All this to say that I think it's important to understand is that Silver is precisely what we'd expect from the USA team this year if Simone Biles never existed. Russia was that good.
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#450 » by Calamity_Cometh » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:44 pm

Horrendous takes in this thread, as usual. Comparisons that ignore context for the sake of criticism.

Bottom line is, that is her well being at stake. She has no obligation to put that at risk for anyone. Very few people do. If she lands wrong, she's crippled or dead. She lost confidence in her ability to avoid that at an acceptable percentage. To hell with sports. I would rather retire right there instead of pushing ahead for the sake of strangers and getting wrecked.
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#451 » by nfmos » Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:01 pm

MostValQuitter wrote:
nfmos wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
So, I don't want to single you out as I know a lot of people are saying similar things but, man:

Y'all, most of the sports we discuss on RealGM are way, way, way less dangerous the what Simone Biles does out there. Football is the only one even close, and in football the danger is largely about what will happen to you over the rest of your life, not the danger of breaking your neck if you do things slightly wrong.

Moreover: As much as the sport of gymnastics has fallen down on the job of protecting young gymnasts from their coaches, there's a long history of protecting gymnasts by trying to make the sport less dangerous, because when they don't, you end up with paralyzed 12 year olds. (Go watch Olga Korbut on the Uneven Bars and imagine what happens if she doesn't manage to catch the bar as she dives straight down head-first toward the floor, and know that the gymnastics world doesn't have to imagine, because stuff like that actually happened.)



:clap: :clap: :clap:

Thank you. Its so mind numbing that people can't see this. In additon to Korbut , what about Kerri Strug? Or Dominque Moceanu? There are also many examples of teenage gymnasts being pushed to perform while injured and some literally were paralyzed for life, and some died. Look up Elena Mukhina, Julissa Gomez, Adriana Duffy, Sang Lan, Melanie Coleman,etc. And those are just the world class gymnasts we know about, imagine how many more injuries occur that we don't hear about.

Its just crazy how some people are so insistent in their claimed knowledge of these teenage girls mental states that they overlook the life and death dangers of competing in gymnastics if arent 100% mentally in it.

To me, she is a hero, because she pushed back against the pressure that has historically coerced these girls to compete even if it wasn't in their best interests to do so. If this gives a little more strength for young gymnasts to push back against some of these win at all cost coaches, and in the process saves some lives, then hell yes she is a hero.


None of what you are arguing about is something I actually said. What I said was if she wasn't right mentally she should have withdrawn well before it got to that point instead of quitting in the middle of an event.

I know the millennials think the world just exists in their own little bubble where their feelings and whatever they are going through is the only thing that matters but it doesn't. Her actions has consequences not only for herself but those around her like the gymnast who was forced to take her spot and compete in an event unexpectedly for does her health and her preparedness not matter? Or the dream spot she took on the team that could have went to someone else who actually wanted to be there? Or her country who may have won gold but had to settle for silver?

Anyways I don't really have anything else to say about the subject other people have questioned the seriousness of her mental health crisis I am not one of those people I'm taking her at her word that she was going through a legitimate mental breakdown. If you want to belabor that point go find someone who actually argued otherwise.


The problem is you are misunderstanding the cause and extent of her issue here. She didn't stop competing because she was sad or depressed, she lost her sense of orientation while flipping in the air on the first vault! Basically she lost her sense of equilibrium doing a task which without that could literally risk her life!

As far as timing, what is the difference in a basketball player badly turning their ankle in a Finals series and not being able to play the rest of the series??

Its funny also that you are arguing that whatever she is going through is the only thing that matters, while you and others seem to be pretty selfish in how you feel and how this affects you while disregarding what she was going through.
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#452 » by a8bil » Mon Aug 2, 2021 3:34 am

13th Man wrote:Bottom line is that she failed and let her team down, you don't celebrate failure. Remove everything that she's done in the past and look at what she's done for her team at this year's Olympics in a vacuum and the answer is not much.

You don't get extra points for difficulty if you can no longer nail any of the moves so wouldn't a logical approach be to go down in difficulty to be able to contend with everybody else? It was Simone and her coach(es) that chose not to go that route due to pride, over-confidence, delusion or to preserve her reputation. That is on them and nobody else.

Quit blaming things on everybody and everything else anytime you encounter failures or disappointments. The sad part is that todays' society encourages this type of mentality, worthy of high praise.
This is mind blowingly stupid and reflects that either don't understand the issue or are trying to remain willfully ignorant. :banghead:
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#453 » by a8bil » Mon Aug 2, 2021 3:43 am

13th Man wrote:
Little Nathan wrote:
13th Man wrote:What I'm learning here is that only medical health experts can have an opinion that's worth anything.


Having an opinion and stating opinions as facts are two entirely different things. Having an opinion on someone else's mental health, which you obviously know nothing about, is weird to me. But you do you. When you make up "facts" like "the truth of the matter is that she failed to live up to expectations and simply quit," that's when I have a problem with it.


Every single report on this story indicates that she was facing insurmountable expectations and that she is finally choosing herself over the expectations of others.

How is it far fetched for me to assume that she couldn't live up to the expectations of others based on the above?
Have you thought that maybe these are media narratives who don't really understand the issue? Please accept this --- every gymnast who has ever performed can get the "twisties" and it has nothing to do with the narratives being put out there by the talking heads. Every gymnast that gets it has to break down their skills, sometimes to the basic level, to get back their sense of orientation while in the air. It can happen out of anywhere, and can happen to anyone. Until you absorb this and understand it, you should think about taking a break from posting on this point because you come off as painfully ignorant and inexcusably arrogant.
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#454 » by a8bil » Mon Aug 2, 2021 7:29 pm

The Olympian also reiterated the fact that she did not quit because of having a bad performance on the vault during the team finals on Tuesday, where she had the lowest score of her career at 13.766. "I've had plenty of bad performances throughout my career and finished the competition. I simply got so lost my safety was at risk as well as a team medal," she wrote. “For anyone saying I quit. I didn't quit, my mind and body are simply not in sync. As you can see [in the video]. I don't think you realize how hard this is on hard/competition surface,” she captioned alongside a video of her falling on the discount during practice. "Sometimes I can't even fathom twisting. I seriously cannot comprehend how to twist. Strangest and weirdest thing as well as feeling,” she added. Simone says that she’s experienced the “twisties” in the past, but it usually shows up only during floor and vault routines and doesn't last more than 2 weeks. But during the Tokyo Olympics it has also "transferred to the bars and beam" right after the preliminary competition. “By that time no an alternate was not allowed to be placed in my position for all your ‘know it alls.’ we have four on a team for a reason. I chose to not continue team competition in jeopardizing losing a medal (of any color) for the girls/us. Also, for my own safety and health," Simone explained. Simone is the first woman since 1992 to advance to the final in all six possible Olympic events. She was set to compete in the team final, the individual all-around final, and in the vault, uneven bars, and floor event finals.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/mykayla-skinner-gives-insight-behind-054852106.html
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#455 » by K For Three » Tue Aug 3, 2021 11:22 am

She came back and won a bronze!

Read on Twitter
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#456 » by a8bil » Tue Aug 3, 2021 5:08 pm

K For Three wrote:She came back and won a bronze!

Read on Twitter
And that was even after dumbing down her routine by removing the twists from her skills to avoid the issues she's having with the "twisties." Got a lower starting point because the routine was easier, but she executed well to secure the bronze.
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#457 » by 13th Man » Tue Aug 3, 2021 8:04 pm

a8bil wrote:
K For Three wrote:She came back and won a bronze!

Read on Twitter
And that was even after dumbing down her routine by removing the twists from her skills to avoid the issues she's having with the "twisties." Got a lower starting point because the routine was easier, but she executed well to secure the bronze.


Lol @ he mental gymnastics here, looks like you had to perform some twisties yourself to make this suit your narrative.

I don't think I as too far off with my assessment. So the twisties only engage when the exercise is of a certain difficulty? Yeah Ok....I'm more inclined to believe that she is not as good as what she used to be, reflected by her Olympics trials performance.

Simone Biles is no longer heads and shoulders above everybody else and this is what they should have done from the start. I'm not here to demean her because she is human after all and a great Olympic champion but calling it as I see it.
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#458 » by a8bil » Tue Aug 3, 2021 8:49 pm

13th Man wrote:
a8bil wrote:
K For Three wrote:She came back and won a bronze!

Read on Twitter
And that was even after dumbing down her routine by removing the twists from her skills to avoid the issues she's having with the "twisties." Got a lower starting point because the routine was easier, but she executed well to secure the bronze.


Lol @ he mental gymnastics here, looks like you had to perform some twisties yourself to make this suit your narrative.

I don't think I as too far off with my assessment. So the twisties only engage when the exercise is of a certain difficulty? Yeah Ok....I'm more inclined to believe that she is not as good as what she used to be, reflected by her Olympics trials performance.

Simone Biles is no longer heads and shoulders above everybody else and this is what they should have done from the start. I'm not here to demean her because she is human after all and a great Olympic champion but calling it as I see it.


It's amusing that you think you are informed sufficiently to have an opinion on a subject upon which you have absolutely zero knowledge. Every word in my post is verifiable truth ...but you don't care to know or understand that because you have your knuckle-dragging opinions already formed. Good on you. And no, once a gymnast has the twisties, they have it even while doing skills that they mastered when they were 4 years old. Biles eliminated the twists to avoid issues arising from the twisties. In the unlikely event you actually want to educate yourself...read on.


Simone Biles nailed her beam routine in Tuesday’s final, earning an execution score more than three-tenths higher than she had in the qualifying round, when she stumbled backward on her dismount. But her total score, 14.0, was slightly lower.

That’s because she changed a single skill: the dismount.

In gymnastics, each skill is assigned a letter value that represents its difficulty. Skills rated A are easiest, while more difficult skills are rated sequentially using letters of the alphabet: B, C, D and so forth (and yes, they’re in reverse of the letter grades you wanted to earn in high school).

During the qualifying round, Biles dismounted with a full-twisting double back, which is rated G. In the final, she dismounted with a double pike, which is rated E, so two letter values easier.

Each successive letter is worth an extra tenth of a point: An A skill is worth 0.1, a B skill is worth 0.2, and so on. That means in terms of absolute difficulty, doing the easier dismount cost Biles only two-tenths. But because the total difficulty score for a routine is based both on the individual skills and on bonuses for linking multiple skills, changing one move can have a snowball effect.
The Code of Points, which governs scoring in gymnastics, awards a two-tenth bonus for connecting a B skill to an F (or higher) dismount. Biles normally receives that bonus because she does two back handsprings, each rated B, into her G-rated full-twisting double back dismount. But by downgrading to an E-rated dismount, she lost the bonus.

That meant her difficulty score went down by four-tenths of a point, compared with the routine she used in the qualifying round: 6.1 instead of 6.5. That outweighed her improved execution.

Still, balance beam finals are quite unpredictable. Several other gymnasts made mistakes, and Biles, with her less difficult but better-executed routine, won a bronze medal even after finishing sixth in the qualifying round.
[url]
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/sports/olympics/simone-biles-beam-routine-score.html[/url]
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#459 » by Ayt » Tue Aug 3, 2021 9:03 pm

13th Man wrote:
a8bil wrote:
K For Three wrote:She came back and won a bronze!

Read on Twitter
And that was even after dumbing down her routine by removing the twists from her skills to avoid the issues she's having with the "twisties." Got a lower starting point because the routine was easier, but she executed well to secure the bronze.


Lol @ he mental gymnastics here, looks like you had to perform some twisties yourself to make this suit your narrative.

I don't think I as too far off with my assessment. So the twisties only engage when the exercise is of a certain difficulty? Yeah Ok....I'm more inclined to believe that she is not as good as what she used to be, reflected by her Olympics trials performance.

Simone Biles is no longer heads and shoulders above everybody else and this is what they should have done from the start. I'm not here to demean her because she is human after all and a great Olympic champion but calling it as I see it.


Conservatives always assume everyone else is as duplicitous as they are.
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Re: Simone Biles 

Post#460 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Aug 3, 2021 10:05 pm

13th Man wrote:
a8bil wrote:
K For Three wrote:She came back and won a bronze!

Read on Twitter
And that was even after dumbing down her routine by removing the twists from her skills to avoid the issues she's having with the "twisties." Got a lower starting point because the routine was easier, but she executed well to secure the bronze.


Lol @ he mental gymnastics here, looks like you had to perform some twisties yourself to make this suit your narrative.

I don't think I as too far off with my assessment. So the twisties only engage when the exercise is of a certain difficulty? Yeah Ok....I'm more inclined to believe that she is not as good as what she used to be, reflected by her Olympics trials performance.

Simone Biles is no longer heads and shoulders above everybody else and this is what they should have done from the start. I'm not here to demean her because she is human after all and a great Olympic champion but calling it as I see it.


Well, twisties related to a certain type of body movement called 'twists', which should have been pretty obvious to you even before the other poster spelled it out for you. I think you need to start watching sports by imagining yourself in their place and thinking about how you'd perform such an action, because you really seem like you're missing a lot and you're trying to make up for it with boldness. Suffice to say "I call it as I see it" isn't something you should be relying on here, because you're pretty close to blind in this context.

And as I say all of this: Simone Biles was not the best gymnast at these games and it's certainly going to hurt her gymnastics GOAT candidacy. None of what I'm saying is intended to defend her gymnastics performance, but rather just to make clear the distinact physicality of the sport and why it's ain't the same thing as bouncing a ball.
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