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gigantes wrote:

G R E Y wrote:Djokovic case: VISA STILL REVOKED, WILL NOT PLAY IN AUSTRALIAN OPEN

...

To me this is frankly great news as a Djokovic fan.

Why? Because if he'd somehow weaseled his way in to the draw using his 'big shot' privilege against all common sense and evidence, it would probably have broken me as a fan. This way justice prevails, and I can go back to rooting for the man again, down the road.

If Djokovic ends up still gaining the record for Grand Slam wins, the lost opportunities of Covid are going to add to his legacy in some ways.

Supposedly some minister in France said all athletes coming for the French Open must be vaccinated.

Doctor MJ wrote:

gigantes wrote:

G R E Y wrote:Djokovic case: VISA STILL REVOKED, WILL NOT PLAY IN AUSTRALIAN OPEN

...

To me this is frankly great news as a Djokovic fan.

Why? Because if he'd somehow weaseled his way in to the draw using his 'big shot' privilege against all common sense and evidence, it would probably have broken me as a fan. This way justice prevails, and I can go back to rooting for the man again, down the road.

If Djokovic ends up still gaining the record for Grand Slam wins, the lost opportunities of Covid are going to add to his legacy in some ways.

Yeah, not to mention him probably throwing away that US Open because of carelessly smacking the ball.

As for the people who think Djokes doesn't have charisma or is intrinsically unlikeable or something, all I can really do is laugh. Normally he's extremely kind, pleasant, humorous and intelligent with people, and you can see it in dozens of interviews and interactions with others. Yet because he's one of those guys with a semi-hot temper, I think people use that as a kind of false confirmation bias that he's the bad guy.

The real issue historically is that he came along and destroyed the 2-man race of Fed and Rafa, and worse yet, might just top them both (and Laver) as the GOAT when all is said and done. Naturally that would irritate millions of fans, hence why IMO so many have jumped on him over the pettiest sh-t.

It's just sports, though. People are the same way with multiple other figures, teams, etc.

gigantes wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:

gigantes wrote:To me this is frankly great news as a Djokovic fan.

Why? Because if he'd somehow weaseled his way in to the draw using his 'big shot' privilege against all common sense and evidence, it would probably have broken me as a fan. This way justice prevails, and I can go back to rooting for the man again, down the road.

If Djokovic ends up still gaining the record for Grand Slam wins, the lost opportunities of Covid are going to add to his legacy in some ways.

Yeah, not to mention him probably throwing away that US Open because of carelessly smacking the ball.

As for the people who think Djokes doesn't have charisma or is intrinsically unlikeable or something, all I can really do is laugh. Normally he's extremely kind, pleasant, humorous and intelligent with people, and you can see it in dozens of interviews and interactions with others. Yet because he's one of those guys with a semi-hot temper, I think people use that as a kind of false confirmation bias that he's the bad guy.

The real issue historically is that he came along and destroyed the 2-man race of Fed and Rafa, and worse yet, might just top them both (and Laver) as the GOAT when all is said and done. Naturally that would irritate millions of fans, hence why IMO so many have jumped on him over the pettiest sh-t.

It's just sports, though. People are the same way with multiple other figures, teams, etc.

Well let's make a distinction from the jump: How a famous person is with their normal interactions in every day life is not necessarily how they come across when they are captured on film doing what makes them famous.

A generous person can come across as self-absorbed, a manipulative person can across as considerate. We don't know the entirety of what these people are and we should always remember that.

But Djokovic's reputation is what it is because of the way he responded to various things all throughout his career, and while that early stuff can be called petty, that's how it goes.

But we've moved beyond that at this point. I mean, you mention what happened at the US Open to further my point and I agree...but that was no minor thing. It was bad luck for Djokovic in the moment to be sure, but he'd been warned about this repeatedly and when he actually hurt somebody acting this way, it was really ugly. This is the sort of thing we expect perhaps from a young player, not from someone far older than "old" by normal tennis player longevity.

And then there's the Covid stuff, which is far bigger than everything else. It's partly that he's out there with his pseudoscience, but were it just that, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. It's the specific way he keeps being utterly careless toward the Covid health of other people as he continues to live the privileged life where he's celebrated the world over to play a game.

So no, I object to any notion that the feeling toward Djokovic is just some bizarre thing that came out of pettiness. It's trivial to pinpoint the ways in which Djokovic could have had none of these issues. Irrelevant to point to these things when talking about his tennis play - and people need to remember that - but in the end, Djokovic has himself the man to blame for how he's perceived today.

Thing I've seen is, in some tough matches, he will win a point because of an unforced error by his opponent and he's pumping his fist and screaming, celebrating.

As if he did something great, not that he just benefitted from his opponent having some misfortune.

That is such trollish behavior.

Doctor MJ wrote:...

Well you're not wrong, all things being equal. Yes, it can be hard to parse human nature from a distance.

But again, I'm talking about dozens and dozens of known interactions both publicly and privately with Djokovic. He has the reputation of being a gentleman, and you just won't hear stories about him being rude or inconsiderate with people, as you might some other athletes.

Many athletes when they get on the court / field / ring flip a switch and become something of a beast, and I try not to judge them too harshly, depending. Yes Djokes loses his cool from time to time, but even on the court, for the most part he's still a gentleman. Still kind of amazed how fans will zero in and obsess over a person's flaws when they're outmatched by a person's good qualities. But such is human nature, I guess.

I don't know the man of course, but he has proven to me (and many others obviously) that he's a perfectly decent human being despite whatever flaws. Actually that's a big part of why I'm so disappointed in him over this Aussie / vaxx stuff.

wco81 wrote:Thing I've seen is, in some tough matches, he will win a point because of an unforced error by his opponent and he's pumping his fist and screaming, celebrating.

As if he did something great, not that he just benefitted from his opponent having some misfortune.

That is such trollish behavior.

Yeah, that's completely common across tennis and other sports. Athletes psyche themselves up and sometimes go in to a kind of beast mode, particularly during big moments.

It's such a mild thing to be complaining about, frankly. If that's the worst thing you saw that day, I'd say you had a pretty good day.

Well whatever the reason, fans in the stands are clearly not with him.

They're not booing him but they're often cheering his opponent more.

Maybe those fans have read about his views and things he's said or done outside the courts. Or maybe there is something about his on court behavior that just haven't connected to the crowd in the same way they have connected with other stars.

Then again they're often cheering more for lower-rated opponents too, though a lot of it is cheering for the underdog.

wco81 wrote:Well whatever the reason, fans in the stands are clearly not with him.

They're not booing him but they're often cheering his opponent more.

Maybe those fans have read about his views and things he's said or done outside the courts. Or maybe there is something about his on court behavior that just haven't connected to the crowd in the same way they have connected with other stars.

Then again they're often cheering more for lower-rated opponents too, though a lot of it is cheering for the underdog.

He's a boring player to watch. And he literally has no charisma. No one goes out of their way to watch his matches

azcatz11 wrote:

wco81 wrote:Well whatever the reason, fans in the stands are clearly not with him.

They're not booing him but they're often cheering his opponent more.

Maybe those fans have read about his views and things he's said or done outside the courts. Or maybe there is something about his on court behavior that just haven't connected to the crowd in the same way they have connected with other stars.

Then again they're often cheering more for lower-rated opponents too, though a lot of it is cheering for the underdog.

He's a boring player to watch. And he literally has no charisma. No one goes out of their way to watch his matches

I don't think that's fair. I feel very fortunate to have been able to see Djokovic play live. The way the man twists is like no one else.

azcatz11 wrote:

wco81 wrote:Well whatever the reason, fans in the stands are clearly not with him.

They're not booing him but they're often cheering his opponent more.

He's a boring player to watch.

I can understand his style being boring to some. Not everyone's in to watching great defenders, even the best of the best, like Djokes.

WCO-- it's not 'whatever reason.' Like I said earlier, he pissed off legions of Fed and Rafa fans, plus people who didn't appreciate him breaking up the two-way race narrative.

Oh, but there's also the people who think he was 'faking it' by suffering fatigue and other injuries early in his career, forcing him to retire from matches. These are pretty much the same people who don't seem to understand how untreated asthma and food allergies can sap your breathing & energy.

Those people are probably the biggest idiots of all when it comes to anti-Djokovic fans, and few of them I'm aware of ever had the presence to admit 'okay I guess I was wrong about that stuff, I'll give the man a fair chance now.'

Fact is, Nole is a much more complicated player than average, and most people probably aren't in to that.

rzzzzz wrote:Paris, London, and NYC are out. Game, set, match. At least until Covid is effectively dealt with, one way or another.

He will be out from NYC (same as in Kyrie Irving's case) and Australia Open for the next 3 years but I am not sure for Wimbledon and especially for RG Paris.

I think in NY, the prohibition is only against athletes on home teams of team sports.

So visiting NBA players can be unvaccinated and play in NYC or Brooklyn.

France recently passed a stringent vaccine passport law and some minister said unvaccinated players can't play in the French Open.

Popovich wrote:He will be out from NYC (same as in Kyrie Irving's case) and Australia Open for the next 3 years but I am not sure for Wimbledon and especially for RG Paris.

French Parliament just passed a new law on Sunday that looks like its going to be tough to get around. And if RG turns him down, the pressure on Wimbledon is going straight to 10 Downing St.

wco81 wrote:I think in NY, the prohibition is only against athletes on home teams of team sports.

So visiting NBA players can be unvaccinated and play in NYC or Brooklyn.

France recently passed a stringent vaccine passport law and some minister said unvaccinated players can't play in the French Open.

I hope you are right about NY.

He would still have to contend with entering the US.

I don't know if people from Serbia require a visa? People from Western Europe don't require a specific visa.

Also US entry requirements can change by September as well.

Nadal first to 21 majors.

Not a fan of Djokovic but I think he’d have beat Nadal if he played. Not sure if he’d have beat Medvedev.

Nadal is an absolute bulldog. He willed himself to victory against a 25-year old with a big serve — aces were like 28 to 3 — but in a 5.5 hour marathon, it was the guy at the start of his athletic prime getting his legs rubbed down between games, not the guy 10 years older.