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Man, Jokic really is a tier or two above everybody else these days. I took SGA because I love his game and I've never picked him before, but it doesn't feel like nearly the advantage it should be to have the #2 pick.

Giannis would definitely have been the wiser choice given positional scarcity. I've built around him so many times though.

MadNESS wrote:

Fifii wrote:In

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Fadeaway_J wrote:

flaco wrote:

Fadeaway_J wrote:I very much believe it

Kinda surprising that the guy who decided that game at the buzzer will likely end up undrafted. I wanted to select him, but I cannot afford him.

Nah, he plays a loaded position and his best moments have come in the playoffs. With only 9 drafters I would have bet against him being picked.

Why is the enlarged part used against him? Our games are decided via playoffs. All teams want players who elevate their game come playoff time. Finding a reliable go-to scorer in the clutch is the hardest thing when building a team. I would assume that's part of the reason players like Harden, Embiid or Westbrook are underrated in our games: they are considered playoff chokers.

For a league that is going smaller and smaller, the Center position remains surprisingly deep. Wemby, Chet and cheap Porzingis are great additions from the 2024 season. Adding 3 starting-calibre stretch 5s changes the dynamics of our games. For instance, Horford went undrafted in the previous draft! Don't think it has ever happened before.

A few other names I added on my list are Jonathan Isaac, Jordan McLaughlin and a certain 3+D swing from the Pels who somehow remains still on the board! Jalen Williams is a great glue guy as well, but he's fairly expensive at 14 FGA.

Fadeaway_J wrote:Man, Jokic really is a tier or two above everybody else these days. I took SGA because I love his game and I've never picked him before, but it doesn't feel like nearly the advantage it should be to have the #2 pick.

Giannis would definitely have been the wiser choice given positional scarcity. I've built around him so many times though.

It’s wild to me that both SGA and Luka have fans talking about how massive a robbery it would be if their guy doesn’t get MVP.

I get that the best player in the league has always had haters, but Jokic seems to have it on another level.

flaco wrote:

Fadeaway_J wrote:

flaco wrote:Kinda surprising that the guy who decided that game at the buzzer will likely end up undrafted. I wanted to select him, but I cannot afford him.

Nah, he plays a loaded position and his best moments have come in the playoffs. With only 9 drafters I would have bet against him being picked.

Why is the enlarged part used against him? Our games are decided via playoffs. All teams want players who elevate their game come playoff time. Finding a reliable go-to scorer in the clutch is the hardest thing when building a team. I would assume that's part of the reason players like Harden, Embiid or Westbrook are underrated in our games: they are considered playoff chokers.

For a league that is going smaller and smaller, the Center position remains surprisingly deep. Wemby, Chet and cheap Porzingis are great additions from the 2024 season. Adding 3 starting-calibre stretch 5s changes the dynamics of our games. For instance, Horford went undrafted in the previous draft! Don't think it has ever happened before.

The game is based primarily on regular season performance. Murray basically tops out as an All-NBA level player in the playoffs, but I'm not going to pick him over players who are already performing at or above that level (without the benefit of Jokic as a teammate) over the course of a full season.

flaco wrote:

Fadeaway_J wrote:

flaco wrote:Kinda surprising that the guy who decided that game at the buzzer will likely end up undrafted. I wanted to select him, but I cannot afford him.

Nah, he plays a loaded position and his best moments have come in the playoffs. With only 9 drafters I would have bet against him being picked.

Why is the enlarged part used against him? Our games are decided via playoffs. All teams want players who elevate their game come playoff time. Finding a reliable go-to scorer in the clutch is the hardest thing when building a team. I would assume that's part of the reason players like Harden, Embiid or Westbrook are underrated in our games: they are considered playoff chokers.

For a league that is going smaller and smaller, the Center position remains surprisingly deep. Wemby, Chet and cheap Porzingis are great additions from the 2024 season. Adding 3 starting-calibre stretch 5s changes the dynamics of our games. For instance, Horford went undrafted in the previous draft! Don't think it has ever happened before.

A few other names I added on my list are Jonathan Isaac, Jordan McLaughlin and a certain 3+D swing from the Pels who somehow remains still on the board! Jalen Williams is a great glue guy as well, but he's fairly expensive at 14 FGA.

Not so much used against him. Playoff performance is typically a secondary thing in the valuation of a player.

And there are plenty of high scoring low defense guards who take 14+ shots going undrafted in this game.

Murray is a tad pricey for what he brings. I want a point who's all-NBA type, not a very good player who has yet to be an all-star, for nearly 17 FGA.

I suppose we'll see guys like Herbert Jones and KCP join the ranks of the Bowen/Battier/Christie types. In general that type of player should be easier to get with 2024 in scope.

Still feel like the pool got very flat after Jokic. A half dozen guys could have gone at two and not surprised me.

Snakebites wrote:

flaco wrote:

Fadeaway_J wrote:Nah, he plays a loaded position and his best moments have come in the playoffs. With only 9 drafters I would have bet against him being picked.

Why is the enlarged part used against him? Our games are decided via playoffs. All teams want players who elevate their game come playoff time. Finding a reliable go-to scorer in the clutch is the hardest thing when building a team. I would assume that's part of the reason players like Harden, Embiid or Westbrook are underrated in our games: they are considered playoff chokers.

For a league that is going smaller and smaller, the Center position remains surprisingly deep. Wemby, Chet and cheap Porzingis are great additions from the 2024 season. Adding 3 starting-calibre stretch 5s changes the dynamics of our games. For instance, Horford went undrafted in the previous draft! Don't think it has ever happened before.

A few other names I added on my list are Jonathan Isaac, Jordan McLaughlin and a certain 3+D swing from the Pels who somehow remains still on the board! Jalen Williams is a great glue guy as well, but he's fairly expensive at 14 FGA.

Not so much used against him. Playoff performance is typically a secondary thing in the valuation of a player.

And there are plenty of high scoring low defense guards who take 14+ shots going undrafted in this game.

I'd argue it's the #1 thing. Jokic was considered soft till he won his first ring. People were arguing you can't build a championship-level defense around him. Giannis was considered an empty stats guy cause he's at his best on the open court, whereas playoff games are mostly won in the half court. Everything changed when he dropped 50 in the Finals. Dirk is widely considered better than Chuck/Malone mainly because he won a ring. Wilt broke a gazillion records, yet he's relatively low in the GOAT discussion due to his limited success in the playoffs. Bradley Beal was averaging 30 for the Wizards, yet nobody cared (and for good reason). I could go on and on. Even LeBron was considered overrated prior to his first ring!

flaco wrote:

Snakebites wrote:

flaco wrote:Why is the enlarged part used against him? Our games are decided via playoffs. All teams want players who elevate their game come playoff time. Finding a reliable go-to scorer in the clutch is the hardest thing when building a team. I would assume that's part of the reason players like Harden, Embiid or Westbrook are underrated in our games: they are considered playoff chokers.

For a league that is going smaller and smaller, the Center position remains surprisingly deep. Wemby, Chet and cheap Porzingis are great additions from the 2024 season. Adding 3 starting-calibre stretch 5s changes the dynamics of our games. For instance, Horford went undrafted in the previous draft! Don't think it has ever happened before.

A few other names I added on my list are Jonathan Isaac, Jordan McLaughlin and a certain 3+D swing from the Pels who somehow remains still on the board! Jalen Williams is a great glue guy as well, but he's fairly expensive at 14 FGA.

Not so much used against him. Playoff performance is typically a secondary thing in the valuation of a player.

And there are plenty of high scoring low defense guards who take 14+ shots going undrafted in this game.

I'd argue it's the #1 thing. Jokic was considered soft till he won his first ring. People were arguing you can't build a championship-level defense around him. Giannis was considered an empty stats guy cause he's at his best on the open court, whereas playoff games are mostly won in the half court. Everything changed when he dropped 50 in the Finals. Dirk is widely considered better than Chuck/Malone mainly because he won a ring. Wilt broke a gazillion records, yet he's relatively low in the GOAT discussion due to his limited success in the playoffs. Bradley Beal was averaging 30 for the Wizzards, yet nobody cared (and for good reason). I could go on and on. Even LeBron was considered a loser prior to his first ring!

I’d say it’s something used against you if you haven’t been a playoff performer.

Not something that will otherwise elevates you.

It’s kind of besides the point. He wasn’t undrafted because he’s not good enough. He was undrafted because there were 9 options at that spot/with those FGA people thought were better.

Snakebites wrote:

flaco wrote:

Snakebites wrote:Not so much used against him. Playoff performance is typically a secondary thing in the valuation of a player.

And there are plenty of high scoring low defense guards who take 14+ shots going undrafted in this game.

I'd argue it's the #1 thing. Jokic was considered soft till he won his first ring. People were arguing you can't build a championship-level defense around him. Giannis was considered an empty stats guy cause he's at his best on the open court, whereas playoff games are mostly won in the half court. Everything changed when he dropped 50 in the Finals. Dirk is widely considered better than Chuck/Malone mainly because he won a ring. Wilt broke a gazillion records, yet he's relatively low in the GOAT discussion due to his limited success in the playoffs. Bradley Beal was averaging 30 for the Wizzards, yet nobody cared (and for good reason). I could go on and on. Even LeBron was considered a loser prior to his first ring!

I’d say it’s something used against you if you haven’t been a playoff performer.

Not something that will otherwise elevates you.

It’s kind of besides the point. He wasn’t undrafted because he’s not good enough. He was undrafted because there were 9 options at that spot/with those FGA people thought were better.

I think it all comes down to FGA cost. I'm about to draft a starting PG who's worse than Murray. Would have loved Murray, but I cannot afford him. Prior to my 3rd pick, I was on the fence between Murray+Bridges (or KCP) vs Jrue+Edwards. Ness made the decision easier for me by taking Bridges. Unfortunately, Laimbeer took Jrue right after me. Perhaps I should have gone Jrue in round 3 instead of Edwards. It's possible that Edwards would have still been on the board in round 4 due to his high FGA cost. Oh well. The PG I'll end up with is fairly decent as well. Fwiw, his advanced stats are considerably better than Jrue's (but Jrue is playing 5th fiddle in Boston which affects his stats).

flaco wrote:

Snakebites wrote:

flaco wrote:I'd argue it's the #1 thing. Jokic was considered soft till he won his first ring. People were arguing you can't build a championship-level defense around him. Giannis was considered an empty stats guy cause he's at his best on the open court, whereas playoff games are mostly won in the half court. Everything changed when he dropped 50 in the Finals. Dirk is widely considered better than Chuck/Malone mainly because he won a ring. Wilt broke a gazillion records, yet he's relatively low in the GOAT discussion due to his limited success in the playoffs. Bradley Beal was averaging 30 for the Wizzards, yet nobody cared (and for good reason). I could go on and on. Even LeBron was considered a loser prior to his first ring!

I’d say it’s something used against you if you haven’t been a playoff performer.

Not something that will otherwise elevates you.

It’s kind of besides the point. He wasn’t undrafted because he’s not good enough. He was undrafted because there were 9 options at that spot/with those FGA people thought were better.

I think it all comes down to FGA cost. I'm about to draft a starting PG who's worse than Murray. Would have loved Murray, but I cannot afford him. Prior to my 3rd pick, I was on the fence between Murray+Bridges (or KCP) vs Jrue+Edwards. Ness made the decision easier for me by taking Bridges. Unfortunately, Laimbeer took Jrue right after me. Perhaps I should have gone Jrue in round 3 instead of Edwards. It's possible that Edwards would have still been on the board in round 4 due to his high FGA cost. Oh well. The PG I'll end up with is fairly decent as well. Fwiw, his advanced stats are considerably better than Jrue's (but Jrue is playing 5th fiddle in Boston which affects his stats).

You’ve hit on another reason Murray gets passed on. Defensive fit.

The skills he offers are less in demand than some lesser players.

MadNESS wrote:.

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flaco wrote:Count me in.

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Laimbeer wrote:.

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Laimbeer wrote:In and prefer no exceptions

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Sent my pick to Ness.

Wish I could have afforded Trey Murphy. Now way though.

Fifii wrote:In

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wackbone wrote:

MadNESS wrote:

Fifii wrote:In

Back up again

Up Fifii

Up for your last pick

Snakebites wrote:Wish I could have afforded Trey Murphy. Now way though.

UP

Skip me for now, I need time to look through options after work. Will pick this evening.