Raw plus/minus for 93-94, 94-95, 95-96 seasons

[lorak]

Penny in '96: +17.1 net!

[colts18]

We now have 10 years (1994-2003) of Plus/Minus data for Stockton and Malone

Code: Select all

   Malone   Stockton
MP    29246   24585
+/-   +4496   +4483
On     8.2   9.7
Off   -2.1   -1.3
Net   10.3   11.0

Malone outscored Stockton by a mere 13 points over that span but outplayed Stockton by 4661 MP so Stockton gets the slight overall lead in Net Plus/Minus. We have 10 years of data and we still don't have enough to make a conclusion on the Stockton vs Malone debate

[penbeast0]

I'm curious about who was tracking that stat? Was it from a play by play file or was it done by box score? Did someone watch every game after the season and recorded plus/minus?

God bless Harvey Pollack.
His archive has an incredible amount of unofficial stats since the beginning of the NBA.

I remember he used to publish referee stats, my favorite of which was which referees called more fouls against road teams than home teams. The answer was ALL OF THEM except Mendy Rudolph, sometimes over 10% more. It explained the notorious "home court advantage."

[Texas Chuck]

David Robinson 3 Year Average from 1994-96

On Court: +10.3
Off Court: -8.5
On/Off: +18.8

This should surprise exactly no one.

[Dipper 13]

David Robinson 3 Year Average from 1994-96

On Court: +10.3
Off Court: -8.5
On/Off: +18.8

This should surprise exactly no one.

One of the all time underrated players.

[RSCD3_]

David Robinson 3 Year Average from 1994-96

On Court: +10.3
Off Court: -8.5
On/Off: +18.8

I wonder how this compares to fellow underrated defensive big man kevin garnett Over a 3 year period?



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[colts18]

David Robinson 3 Year Average from 1994-96

On Court: +10.3
Off Court: -8.5
On/Off: +18.8

I wonder how this compares to fellow underrated defensive big man kevin garnett Over a 3 year period?



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KG's best span came from 02-04:

On +7.3
Off -10.9
Net +18.2

[RSCD3_]

David Robinson 3 Year Average from 1994-96

On Court: +10.3
Off Court: -8.5
On/Off: +18.8

I wonder how this compares to fellow underrated defensive big man kevin garnett Over a 3 year period?



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KG's best span came from 02-04:

On +7.3
Off -10.9
Net +18.2

Thanks I'm kind of interested in these numbers do you have a link to the net plus minus numbers on your site for each player with year selected I want to see what the best 3 years player peaks are by +/-


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[drza]

David Robinson 3 Year Average from 1994-96

On Court: +10.3
Off Court: -8.5
On/Off: +18.8

I wonder how this compares to fellow underrated defensive big man kevin garnett Over a 3 year period?



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I don't know if the Robinson numbers are per 48 minutes or per 100 possessions?

Basketball-ref has per 100 possessions on/off numbers since 2001.

KG had a +18.2 average for 02 - 04, which is right in the same ballpark. (ETA yeah, what Colts18 said). The 3 year average is a bit misleading in KG's case, though, as 2002 was "just" a +10 season while the other two were in the 20s.

There's a similar story with LeBron (+16.3 three-year avg from 2008 - 2010), peak at +21.2 in 2009

Shaq's best mark starting in 2001 was +15.6 (in 2001)

Duncan's best mark from 01 on was +17.8 in 2005. He was +14.7 in 2003

Dirk's best mark was +20.4 in 2003. He was +16 in 2011

[Dipper 13]

I don't know if the Robinson numbers are per 48 minutes or per 100 possessions?

100 possessions

[SideshowBob]

where do you find Lebron's +/- for 09? also other notable players from other different years?

http://bkref.com/tiny/0Ssgw

[SideshowBob]

where do you find Lebron's +/- for 09? also other notable players from other different years?

http://bkref.com/tiny/0Ssgw

are those by per 48 min or per 100 poss?

also how do you find a set number for a particular season? like in Lebron's plus/minus finder on B-R if I wanted to know what his number was for the '13 season?

I tried it and it lists numbers for all games in that season when I only want one set number telling me what his plus/minus is for the entire season

Those are seasonal totals, not per 48 min or per 100 poss.

If you go to the individual On/Off pages for any player, you'll be able to see per 100 poss numbers for any season you select (within the 01-14 frame). Each individual also has a Plus/Minus finder under the Finders tab on their pages, which allows you to look at seasonal/per48/per100 +/- for any season you pick.

[SideshowBob]

alright thank you!

also do you know if realgm has other plus/minus data for other seasons except '94, '95 and '96? not counting '01-'14 since B-R already covers it.

Sure thing.

Nope, BBR does not. NBA.com has +/- data from 97-00 and 01-14, and fpliii's been kindly compiling the older data here.

[SideshowBob]

alright thank you!

also do you know if realgm has other plus/minus data for other seasons except '94, '95 and '96? not counting '01-'14 since B-R already covers it.

Sure thing.

Nope, BBR does not. NBA.com has +/- data from 97-00 and 01-14, and fpliii's been kindly compiling the older data here.

alright sorry last thing. hate to be bothersome but trying to understand the whole metric thing

what's the difference between these links?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/on-off/2013/

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/plus_minus_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=jamesle01&match=combined&output=per_min&year_min=2013&year_max=2013&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=ge&c4val=&order_by=diff_pts

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/plus_minus_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=jamesle01&match=combined&output=per_poss&year_min=2013&year_max=2013&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=ge&c4val=&order_by=diff_pts


Is the first link of 15.3 just his on/off for offensive rating while the other two are on/off per 48 minutes and on/off per 100 poss?

No worries.

So, the 2nd and 3rd links are NOT On/Off. They only cover the ON part of On/Off.

Link 2: How much the Heat outscored opponents per 48 minutes with Lebron on the floor

Link 3: How much the Heat outscored opponents per 100 possessions with Lebron on the floor


The first link, however, also accounts for how the Heat did when Lebron was OFF the floor, and then sums the two together. With Lebron on the floor, the Heat outscored opponents by 13.2 pts per 100 possessions. With Lebron OFF the floor, they were outscored by opponents by 2.1 pts per 100 possessions. The difference between the two (13.2 - (-2.1)) is Lebron's net ON/OFF for 2013.

[colts18]

Thanks I'm kind of interested in these numbers do you have a link to the net plus minus numbers on your site for each player with year selected I want to see what the best 3 years player peaks are by +/-

I don't have a link for net plus/minus numbers. I've thought about compiling them, but I would have manually do it for 30 teams each season. Plus I would have to manually calculate the Net plus/minus for the 97-00 seasons. That would take too much time.

[Doctor MJ]

Edited the links into the OP:

94-95:

http://i59.tinypic.com/122k8js.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/2e52ozo.jpg

95-96

http://i61.tinypic.com/312jwar.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/2vs47km.jpg

Wow fpliii. Just wow.

You make stuff happen!

[Doctor MJ]

Hmm, links not working for me.

[ceiling raiser]

Hmm, links not working for me.

Seems like the image hosting site is down. Try these:

http://www42.zippyshare.com/v/14043969/file.html
http://www42.zippyshare.com/v/63551140/file.html
http://www42.zippyshare.com/v/14257621/file.html
http://www42.zippyshare.com/v/51872645/file.html

Looking forward to your take on the data.

[colts18]

Here is an updated list for the top 10 total on court plus/minus from 1994-2014 (21 seasons):

Here is how to read this: on court Net +/-, on court per 100 poss, Net Plus/Minus per 100 poss

1. 96 Jordan +980, +16.7, +15.2
2. 96 Pippen +899, +16.8, +11.8
3. 09 James +871, +15, +21.2
4. 97 Jordan +818, +14, +9.7
5. 97 Pippen +807, +13.9, +9
6. 08 Pierce +784, +14.2, +9.8
7. 03 Nowitzki +778, +12.6, +20.4
8. 97 Hornacek +775, +15.9, +18
9. 97 Malone +768, +13.7, +16.3
10. 07 Duncan +746, +13.8, +14.5

MJ and Pippen have 4 out of the top 5. MJ's on court +/- of +16.7 in 1996 was good enough to pass 2005 Ginobili as the 2nd best on court +/- ever recorded (min. 1500 MP). 2005 Duncan is still first at +16.9. Ben Wallace 2009 does have a +18.2 but it was only done in 1312 MP. Hornacek's 97 season seems underrated. His +15.9 on court +/- would be the 4th best in the 01-14 span (behind Duncan, Ginobili, and 08 KG).


EDIT: 97 Rodman and Ostertag rank well in on court +/- per 100 possessions. Rodman was +15.7 and Ostertag was +16.5. That +16.5 ranks only behind 05 Duncan, 96 MJ, and 05 Ginobili.

I completely forgot about 96 Pippen. His +16.8 on court plus/minus is 2nd ever, not MJ's. MJ is 3rd and Ginobili is 4th.

[colts18]

Here is a list of guys I can confirm had a net plus/minus of +20 since 1994. I know for sure that 09 LeBron is the only guy to do it from 08-14. Before that, I glanced around and only found a few guys who did it. Here is the unofficial list:

03 KG +23.4
09 LeBron +21.2
04 KG +20.7
03 Dirk +20.4

Here are some that are +20 if you round up: 94 Robinson at +19.9, 95 Robinson at 19.8 and 09 Chris Paul at +19.6.


Based on a quick glance of the leaderboards of 97-00, I didn't see anyone who was +20 but I can't be 100% sure that I didn't miss anyone.