Official Trade Thread Part XLVI

[nate33]

looks like the suns are trying to move their #22 pick. IF we could get that pick with a sign/trade for Tyus...i would be all over that

Tyus to Suns
Grayson to 3rd Team
Filler from 3rd team + pick to DC

That's not bad. But Tyus would have to agree to a S&T that pays him just $8.9M or less. Maybe if nobody offers him an MLE deal on the free market, this could become a possibility.

[pcbothwel]

looks like the suns are trying to move their #22 pick. IF we could get that pick with a sign/trade for Tyus...i would be all over that

Tyus to Suns
Grayson to 3rd Team
Filler from 3rd team + pick to DC

That's not bad. But Tyus would have to agree to a S&T that pays him just $8.9M or less. Maybe if nobody offers him an MLE deal on the free market, this could become a possibility.

Huh? Why?
Grayson makes 15M next year, so why cant they take back the same amount?

[nate33]

Tyus to Suns
Grayson to 3rd Team
Filler from 3rd team + pick to DC

That's not bad. But Tyus would have to agree to a S&T that pays him just $8.9M or less. Maybe if nobody offers him an MLE deal on the free market, this could become a possibility.

Huh? Why?
Grayson makes 15M next year, so why cant they take back the same amount?

My bad. I was looking at the basketball-reference salaries table and they didn't have Allen's extension. However, if I understand the CBA correctly, because of the extension, he can't be traded until October 15th.

[nate33]

That's not bad. But Tyus would have to agree to a S&T that pays him just $8.9M or less. Maybe if nobody offers him an MLE deal on the free market, this could become a possibility.

Huh? Why?
Grayson makes 15M next year, so why cant they take back the same amount?

My bad. I was looking at the basketball-reference salaries table and they didn't have Allen's extension. However, if I understand the CBA correctly, because of the extension, he can't be traded until October 15th.

The more I think about it, the more I think Phoenix will try and trade for a big forward rather than a PG. Tyus Jones isn't the guy they want, Kyle Kuzma might be, though.

Would they do the same structure of trade: Grayson Allen plus filler (Nassir Little?) for Kuzma? They can throw in their 2024 #22 pick plus their 2031 pick. Then we flip Allen for more pieces.

[Frichuela]

Huh? Why?
Grayson makes 15M next year, so why cant they take back the same amount?

My bad. I was looking at the basketball-reference salaries table and they didn't have Allen's extension. However, if I understand the CBA correctly, because of the extension, he can't be traded until October 15th.

The more I think about it, the more I think Phoenix will try and trade for a big forward rather than a PG. Tyus Jones isn't the guy they want, Kyle Kuzma might be, though.

Would they do the same structure of trade: Grayson Allen plus filler (Nassir Little?) for Kuzma? They can throw in their 2024 #22 pick plus their 2031 pick. Then we flip Allen for more pieces.

Interesting trade Nate! And the Wiz front office would finally get the 2 first rounders they sought for Kuzma. Question is: would Phoenix bite? Or would they think there is bigger fish available for that package?

[nate33]

Huh? Why?
Grayson makes 15M next year, so why cant they take back the same amount?

My bad. I was looking at the basketball-reference salaries table and they didn't have Allen's extension. However, if I understand the CBA correctly, because of the extension, he can't be traded until October 15th.

The more I think about it, the more I think Phoenix will try and trade for a big forward rather than a PG. Tyus Jones isn't the guy they want, Kyle Kuzma might be, though.

Would they do the same structure of trade: Grayson Allen plus filler (Nassir Little?) for Kuzma? They can throw in their 2024 #22 pick plus their 2031 pick. Then we flip Allen for more pieces.

How about this:

Washington trades: Kuzma, 2024 FRP (#26)
Washington receives: Nassir Little, 2024 FRP (#22), 2031 FRP (PHX), 2025 FRP (ORL)

Phoenix trades: Grayson Allen, Nassir Little, 2024 FRP (#22), 2031 FRP (PHX)
Phoenix receives: Kuzma, 2024 FRP (#26)

Orlando trades: 2025 FRP (ORL)
Orlando receives: Grayson Allen

We turn Kuzma into two FRP's plus move up from 26 to 22 in this draft.

Orlando adds a perfect fit in Grayson Allen as a floor stretching combo guard who doesn't suck on D.

Phoenix adds a big forward that helps them limit Durant's regular season minutes and gives them the flexibility to go smallball 5 without playing a guard at the PF position. And his declining contract helps manage their luxtax pain over the next few years.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

We may never see a first round pick from Phoenix, but just getting out of the Beal deal moves that trade to a B, at minimum.

Agreed. But I am more optimistic on those 2026, 28 and 30 pick swaps. I could easily picture a meltdown scenario when Phoenix crashes and burns in a couple of years...

I think we're still going to be terrible in '26.

I don't think there's a way to project two seasons from now. Next season, this team could easily double it's wins. Two good players and one decent free agent and this team could be back to respectable.

I don't think 30-35 wins would be terrible in 2026.

[9 and 20]

Watching the playoffs, I definitely think there will be a trade market for Kuz. Especially with his contract. Sending him to Phoenix after the Beal trade last year would be hilarious.

If Poole wasn't so horrible the first part of the year, there would be one for him too in that 6th man/microwave role. Even with his terribleness early on this year, we might see some kneejerk type moves. One can hope, right.

[payitforward]

...How about this:

Washington trades: Kuzma, 2024 FRP (#26)
Washington receives: Nassir Little, 2024 FRP (#22), 2031 FRP (PHX), 2025 FRP (ORL)

Phoenix trades: Grayson Allen, Nassir Little, 2024 FRP (#22), 2031 FRP (PHX)
Phoenix receives: Kuzma, 2024 FRP (#26)

Orlando trades: 2025 FRP (ORL)
Orlando receives: Grayson Allen

We turn Kuzma into two FRP's plus move up from 26 to 22 in this draft.

Orlando adds a perfect fit in Grayson Allen as a floor stretching combo guard who doesn't suck on D.

Phoenix adds a big forward that helps them limit Durant's regular season minutes and gives them the flexibility to go smallball 5 without playing a guard at the PF position. And his declining contract helps manage their luxtax pain over the next few years.

That's a great trade, nate -- very creative! Well done!

[nate33]

Agreed. But I am more optimistic on those 2026, 28 and 30 pick swaps. I could easily picture a meltdown scenario when Phoenix crashes and burns in a couple of years...

I think we're still going to be terrible in '26.

I don't think there's a way to project two seasons from now. Next season, this team could easily double it's wins. Two good players and one decent free agent and this team could be back to respectable.

I don't think 30-35 wins would be terrible in 2026.

We are going to be terrible in 2025-26 because the pick we owe NY is only top 8 protected. It's possible that we start looking pretty good by mid-season, but we are sure to tank down the stretch.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I think we're still going to be terrible in '26.

I don't think there's a way to project two seasons from now. Next season, this team could easily double it's wins. Two good players and one decent free agent and this team could be back to respectable.

I don't think 30-35 wins would be terrible in 2026.

We are going to be terrible in 2025-26 because the pick we owe NY is only top 8 protected. It's possible that we start looking pretty good by mid-season, but we are sure to tank down the stretch.

We owe a 1st round pick to NY? For what? Who did we get from NY?

And how does that work with the Suns pick swap? If our pick goes to NY, can we swap it with Phoenix?

[nate33]

I don't think there's a way to project two seasons from now. Next season, this team could easily double it's wins. Two good players and one decent free agent and this team could be back to respectable.

I don't think 30-35 wins would be terrible in 2026.

We are going to be terrible in 2025-26 because the pick we owe NY is only top 8 protected. It's possible that we start looking pretty good by mid-season, but we are sure to tank down the stretch.

We owe a 1st round pick to NY? For what? Who did we get from NY?

And how does that work with the Suns pick swap? If our pick goes to NY, can we swap it with Phoenix?

It was the pick we sent to Houston along with Wall to dump Wall and add Westbrook. (NY later acquired that pick in an unrelated trade.)

The pick was lotto protected in 2023, top 12 protected this year, top 10 protected in 2025, and top 8 protected in 2026. After that, it turns into a SRP in 2027 plus a SRP in 2028.

The trade was made before the Phoenix trade so it is unrelated to Phoenix. If we are forced to convey the pick to New York, then we will have no pick left to swap with Phoenix so no swap will take place.

[nate33]

We are going to be terrible in 2025-26 because the pick we owe NY is only top 8 protected. It's possible that we start looking pretty good by mid-season, but we are sure to tank down the stretch.

We owe a 1st round pick to NY? For what? Who did we get from NY?

And how does that work with the Suns pick swap? If our pick goes to NY, can we swap it with Phoenix?

It was the pick we sent to Houston along with Wall to dump Wall and add Westbrook. (NY later acquired that pick in an unrelated trade.)

The pick was lotto protected in 2023, top 12 protected this year, top 10 protected in 2025, and top 8 protected in 2026. After that, it turns into a SRP in 2027 plus a SRP in 2028.

The trade was made before the Phoenix trade so it is unrelated to Phoenix. If we are forced to convey the pick to New York, then we will have no pick left to swap with Phoenix so no swap will take place.

And herein lies the greatest failure of the previous regime. When Wall got hurt again and then flashed the gang sign (or whatever he did that drove Ted to unload him) THAT was the time to start the rebuild. Rather than sacrifice a future 1st and trade Wall for Westbrook, the team should have traded Beal while his value was highest and started the rebuild right then.

That was the summer of 2020. Beal had just come off a year where he was second in the league in scoring at 30.5 points per game. He was recently extended and under contract for 2 more years at $28.7M and $33.7M respectively.

Imagine trading him for a package of firsts, and then tanking the 2020-21 season to land us a top pick in a draft with: Cunningham, Mobley, Suggs, Barnes, Franz etc. Then we tank one more year in 2021-22 while giving letting our young core of Rui, Deni, Mobley develop, plus probably a young draft pick acquired in a Beal trade. In 2022, we draft Paulo or Chet plus a second pick from the Beal trade. Meanwhile, we would still have that future pick that we didn't trade for Westbrook, and we'd have a ton of cap room.

[payitforward]

Add to that:

1. accepting Boston's offer of a low R1 in '20 for Bertans -- then taking Desmond Bane.
2. taking Haliburton with our #9 pick in the same draft.
3. still tanking in '20 & getting one of Mobley or Barnes or Franz Wagner in the '21 draft. Or maybe two of them using the pick that came in the Beal trade.
4. taking a promising young'un in '21's rich R2 (Herb Jones, Aaron Wiggins, Ayo Dosunmu...?)
5. making a solid mid-R1 pick in '22 -- say Tari Eason.

Of course, we're very young, so we're still making a mid-round 1 pick in 2023 -- let's take Brandin Podziemski. Then Trayce Jackson-Davis with 1 of our R2 picks & Vukcevic with the other.

Not too shabby, eh? Tyrese Haliburton, Desmond Bane, Evan Mobley, Franz Wagner, Herb Jones, Tari Eason, Podziemski, T J-D, & Vuk....
I'd call that a flying start, wouldn't you?

[AFM]

Yeah sure. As long as we're playing 20/20 hindsight let's go back and buy a million bitcoin as well.

[nate33]

Yeah sure. As long as we're playing 20/20 hindsight let's go back and buy a million bitcoin as well.

Yeah, I'm not too caught up in who we should have drafted because that requires 20/20 hindsight. My issue is with the overall strategy. It was obvious at the time that the loss of Wall meant that a rebuild was inevitable. Any time wasted would be time squandered. And the years wasted were also the peak years of Beal's trade value. As a result of this maddeningly stupid strategy, we started the rebuild two years too late, and we started it without a war chest of picks.

[9 and 20]

Would the Suns just trade #22 and the 2031 #1 for Kuzma? With a pick 7 years away, I'd want minimal protections.

Sacramento still makes sense for Kuz. Indiana, if Siakam leaves. Minny, if they dump KAT. Philly could use him depending on how they spend their money in free agency. Raptors could use him at forward. Detroit and Utah, maybe. Hawks as another forward next to Jalen Johnson.

There should be some good options out there.

[gambitx777]

Man things seem teaty here . I took a little BB break and went to football land for the draft.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[nate33]

Would the Suns just trade #22 and the 2031 #1 for Kuzma? With a pick 7 years away, I'd want minimal protections.

Sacramento still makes sense for Kuz. Indiana, if Siakam leaves. Minny, if they dump KAT. Philly could use him depending on how they spend their money in free agency. Raptors could use him at forward. Detroit and Utah, maybe. Hawks as another forward next to Jalen Johnson.

There should be some good options out there.

Phoenix and Sacramento seem like the best options to me. Detroit, Toronto, Atlanta and Utah are too far from competing to be throwing around first round picks for a 29-year-old.

The Minnesota/KAT situation is interesting. Maybe we somehow step in as a third party. Minnesota turns KAT into Kuzma and cap relief and we sent KAT to a third team for bad contracts and picks?

[bsilver]

Would the Suns just trade #22 and the 2031 #1 for Kuzma? With a pick 7 years away, I'd want minimal protections.

Sacramento still makes sense for Kuz. Indiana, if Siakam leaves. Minny, if they dump KAT. Philly could use him depending on how they spend their money in free agency. Raptors could use him at forward. Detroit and Utah, maybe. Hawks as another forward next to Jalen Johnson.

There should be some good options out there.

Can the Suns do that? For 2024-5 they’re already at 191M, and that doesn’t include signing Grayson Allen.