2024 Draft Thread - Part II

[DCZards]

We ain’t getting the #1 pick in the draft for Kuz. Not today, not any day.

But I could see the Zards getting a later first rd pick (maybe in the late teens or 20s) for Kuz from a team in a win-now mode that’s looking for a third or fourth offensive option.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Missi has only been playing organized basketball 3 years. He grew up playing soccer in Cameroon.

Interesting.

With guys like that, you need to know more about their character. If he is maniacally obsessed with basketball, then sure, he might be a steal.

And don't get me wrong, I fully recognize that Sarr has weaknesses. I'm just saying that mobility and length aren't among them.

Ulrich Chomche is another one, also from Cameroon I believe, and more of a project. I thought he looked good in the scrimmage matched up against Bona. Looked pretty fluid, coordinated, and athletic. Measured 6'10.25" with 7'4" wingspan. Draft and stash candidate.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Anyone notice when they showed the Spurs GM in the stands looked like he was having a nice chat with Will Dawkins?

[jangles86]

Personal thoughts so far.

-Reed Sheppard is giving me Klay Thompson vibes with his catch and shoot abilities. Not saying he will be Klay but his shooting is going to be a weapon.

-jakobe Walter is being slept on. He is a flamethrower.

-Johnny Furphy is a good prospect. Nearly 4 years younger than Knecht. Furphy would be a very nice pick is possible at 26.

-Isiah Collier is moving back up mock drafts and possibly back into top 10.

-Ron Holland gives me Michael Kidd Gilchrist vibes.

-Clingan is the best defender in this draft and wizards need a Bigman. Why wouldn’t he be taken at pick 2.

[Dat2U]

If it's ONLY about winning the most games next year ... take Donovan Clingan. He'll improve the low post defense immediately. With internal improvement from Deni, Bilal & Corey and Poole not being the worst player in the league for half a year.... the Wizards might win 30 games. Obviously the catch 22 to this is it would put us in a Toronto situation next year where we could end up potentially losing the 2025 1st if we drop in the lottery. Also while Clingan might be the most impactful next season, higher upside guys drafted after him may pass him by year 2 or 3 (see Walker Kessler).

If it's ONLY about finding the most productive rookie next year, take Zach Edey who could probably put up a near double/double playing half the game. The catch is he may not be able to handle the C position defensively and could be the type of player that gets played off the floor when it really matters.

If it's ONLY about finding the best fit with the current roster, take Zaccharie Risacher who could be a plug & play, 3 & D wing. It would give the Wizards length at 3 positions & needed shooting to complement the slashing ability of Deni/Bilal. Catch is Zaccharie hasn't shown much shot creation or slashing and doesn't appear to impact the game much outside of shooting/defending. He also may not be the best wing in the draft.

[gesa2]

Great post DAT. As always on draft chats here the tension between immediate help and fit vs long term outcomes and prospect floor vs ceiling lurks behind all of our posts. There shouldn’t be any debate this year. All in for best chance at a difference maker even if that means a higher bust potential.
David Aldridge advocates for Clingan in the Athletic ‘cause our D last year sucked. As if that is what should determine our choice!

[tontoz]

I see Clingan similarly to Reed. I like him but at 2....just can't do it.

[queridiculo]

Clingan, just say no.

I don't care how well he does any of the other stuff, he cannot move, absolutely insane to consider him with the 2nd pick.

I'd rather just trade out and settle for whatever anybody cares to offer than to make him my selection.

[dobrojim]

https://youtu.be/FmVNmKVE8lc?si=aelml3nYpbQ2GB_1

Sounds like execs are trying to evacuate this draft. Could be a good time to sell Kuz and maybe even poole shammaet for good value.

If those execs are correct on this draft, why would it be good value to trade Kuz to add another pick?

I've read/seen that some teams believe having 1st overall this year is like having as low as #10 in another draft year. That doesn't feel like a draft with a whole lot of value.

There's absolutely no rush in trading Kuz. Dawkins and Winger seem committed to a patient rebuild, and I'm with them. Some team out there will give up a future FRP (or two) for him.

I happen to think there are a few good players in this draft. It's packed full of PGs and it's pretty flush with good center talent.

Is #1 is #10 would you not trade kux for a top ten pick? I would yes. So like if Atlanta offers us #1 for Kuz I'm taking it.

(DCZards beat me to the punch on this)

Me too. But I seriously doubt that is a plausible scenario. Kuz is a below average player at his position.
I'd buy a 2nd half of the first round pick maybe.

This is a fascinating draft. Even if the 'weak year' label ends up being correct, it still seems likely
that 2-4 years down the road and with 20-20 hindsight people will say, it was obvious that player X
was going to be really good.

[doclinkin]

If it's ONLY about winning the most games next year ... take Donovan Clingan. He'll improve the low post defense immediately. With internal improvement from Deni, Bilal & Corey and Poole not being the worst player in the league for half a year.... the Wizards might win 30 games. Obviously the catch 22 to this is it would put us in a Toronto situation next year where we could end up potentially losing the 2025 1st if we drop in the lottery. Also while Clingan might be the most impactful next season, higher upside guys drafted after him may pass him by year 2 or 3 (see Walker Kessler).

If it's ONLY about finding the most productive rookie next year, take Zach Edey who could probably put up a near double/double playing half the game. The catch is he may not be able to handle the C position defensively and could be the type of player that gets played off the floor when it really matters.

If it's ONLY about finding the best fit with the current roster, take Zaccharie Risacher who could be a plug & play, 3 & D wing. It would give the Wizards length at 3 positions & needed shooting to complement the slashing ability of Deni/Bilal. Catch is Zaccharie hasn't shown much shot creation or slashing and doesn't appear to impact the game much outside of shooting/defending. He also may not be the best wing in the draft.

Lol. Swap Castle for Clingan and you have my favorite choices.

Castle. If it's ONLY about building the strongest team over time, take the guy who will upgrade your exterior defense immediately and be instantly playable next to no-D players like Poole or Vukcevic. Gamble on the guy who will be an alpha level role player to assist when we do land a star in future drafts. Take the guy who has shown both starpower lead guard skills in HS and the ability to subsume his game to fit a team scheme in order to win. Pick the winning champion with the workhorse mentality. The SF with the strength to battle inside and the footspeed to defend the PGs and perimeter players. On any player ask if the Spurs would take him. If the answer is yes, re-consider passing him up. If this draft is lacking in stars, take the star level glue guy and bank on your development program to shape him into a threat in the places where he falls short. Try him out at PG so his learning curve has a few rumble strips along the way while he develops confidence in the role. Figure his development takes enough time that his D does not jeopardize a high pick next year. Trade back and get this guy plus extra picks in future years that are deeper in stars. What is the #2 pick worth? What about #2 plus Kuzma? Can we slip a couple spots and pick up extra chits in 25/26? Or take him and see if the Spurs at 4 & 8 offer a haul that is worth letting him go.

Canadian Zack. If it's ONLY about adding the best player available, then pick a player who will be truly dominant at the times when you can afford to play him. He will instantly be the biggest player in the league, and will force opposing teams to adjust, even if that means you are forcing them to go small, where your tallball players can smother them. Consider the tactical advantage you have of controlling other team's moves. Then look around and see the players that are still in the post season. Bigs on every team. True centers and drop coverage players all around. If we are in a rebirth of big man play, consider the option Big that can cancel their advantage here. Then consider that he has gotten better and more mobile every year, adding skills every year. Is there more? Mo. Bigger. Better.

French Zacc. If it's ONLY about synergy, consider adding the player at a position of our greatest weakness, who fits well next to the core we have begun to build with, but who is not yet developed enough to impact our lotto chances. Pick a guy who can play next to any star in the league because he plays the one spot that every team is looking for. Playable defensive tall 3pt shooter. An asset anywhere. Next consider that our biggest weakness last year was in playing a ball-dominant and short 2-guard who does not play team defense and is a poor fit next to Deni and Bilal. Now consider the possibility of playing a 6'9" catch and shoot specialist who is best off the ball and does not hog touches by overdribble, but either takes the quick shot, makes the efficient pass and re-positions, or cuts hard off the ball to catch and finish underneath. Our best possibility of a Klay Thompson threat. On both sides of the ball. Now picture that player next to Deni, who needs a finisher for an outlet pass. Preferably a tall one that opposing forwards will have to mark so the paint is not crowded. Picture that player training in summers and offseasons with his countryman Bilal, a player with similar build and good defense, but who needs most an off-the-ball catch and shoot game. Now picture a defense where your 2,3, and 4 are all long mobile rangy guys ~6'9" and realize that you might have the only team in the league that can afford to play a drop coverage big and still cover the perimeter. Plug and play whomever you got at dominant center or ballhandling guard.

We don't yet have a star to build around, so to me it is worth building a team that a star can slide into and instantly be in the pilot's seat of a smooth running war machine. The head of the Voltron. If this draft does not have an obvious star, but does have obviously useful players, then take the best of the non-stars and not try to force the issue around flawed players who lack a winning instinct or an ability to fit a team. Some years have That Guy. Some years have guys who wanna be that guy and never will. Or who are built like That Guy should be, but lack the force of will to be Him. That guy is coming up in the next couple drafts. Risk building the team that he will fit.

[machu46]

We ain’t getting the #1 pick in the draft for Kuz. Not today, not any day.

But I could see the Zards getting a later first rd pick (maybe in the late teens or 20s) for Kuz from a team in a win-now mode that’s looking for a third or fourth offensive option.

It won't actually happen because the optics of trading a #1 overall pick for a player of that caliber would just be horrific, but FWIW, Russillo was saying he heard back from a lot of teams the other day and the general message from them was that the #1 overall pick in this year's draft is worth roughly the #4 or #5 player on a good team. Some of the guys he was mentioning as being roughly the right value for the #1 pick were guys like Cam Johnson and Terrence Mann (and in classic Simmons/Russillo fashion, they had to mention a Celtic and said that Derrick White for example would be worth far more than the #1 pick).

[pancakes3]

GMs know it's a weak draft and they're not going to give up assets just to take Clingan at 2 when we don't even want him at 2 without giving anything up.

Ringer said that front offices are saying that a top 3 pick this year is like a top 5-10 pick in other years, and that the expected value of a top 3 pick is around Tobias Harris levels of talent. Of course, factoring in variance, you could get guys that overperform, but on average, based on the tape that the scouts have watched, that's what the consensus opinion of this draft is.

[nate33]

-Ron Holland gives me Michael Kidd Gilchrist vibes.

MKG had a horrific hitch in his shot. It was broken. Having no shooting ability whatsoever doomed his career. I agree that Holland's shooting is a grave concern, but at least the form isn't broken. That said, his scores so far on the shooting drills have not been good. It's a little disappointing that he hasn't been able to hone his jumper in the last 3 months when that was clearly the skill the scouts are looking from him. Of course, one day of shooting drills isn't really a fair assessment of a player either. I'm sure more information about Holland's shooting will come to light over the days and weeks of workouts leading up to the draft.

I find myself comparing Holland to Castle. They strike me as the type of athletic big-wing prototype that are likely to interest Dawkins. Holland is bigger and more aggressive and explosive, but Castle has shown some hints of dramatically improved shooting (and he has the championship pedigree). If Castle can reassure skeptics that he has a viable 3-point shot, does he move ahead of Holland who is still a big question mark as a shooter?

[machu46]

-Ron Holland gives me Michael Kidd Gilchrist vibes.

MKG had a horrific hitch in his shot. It was broken. Having no shooting ability whatsoever doomed his career. I agree that Holland's shooting is a grave concern, but at least the form isn't broken. That said, his scores so far on the shooting drills have not been good. It's a little disappointing that he hasn't been able to hone his jumper in the last 3 months when that was clearly the skill the scouts are looking from him. Of course, one day of shooting drills isn't really a fair assessment of a player either. I'm sure more information about Holland's shooting will come to light over the days and weeks of workouts leading up to the draft.

I find myself comparing Holland to Castle. They strike me as the type of athletic big-wing prototype that are likely to interest Dawkins. Holland is bigger and more aggressive and explosive, but Castle has shown some hints of dramatically improved shooting (and he has the championship pedigree). If Castle can reassure skeptics that he has a viable 3-point shot, does he move ahead of Holland who is still a big question mark as a shooter?

Yeah I definitely view those two in the same sort of category. I tend to favor Holland at the moment but I can totally see how others might prefer Castle.

[NatP4]

Can’t put too much stock into one day of drills, but Holland shooting 36% on 3s in an empty gym(worse than Clingan), is concerning.

[doclinkin]

On Castle. He didn't show it at UConn since it wasn't his role. But recall that he was a lead guard and playmaker in HS. Consider our 5 year plan. Imagine that we are trying him out at PG full time. Now see that his footspeed in shuttle run and lane agility is quick enoughb to keep up with the flash PGs laterally and backwards. Now notice how good his shooting %'s were in the drills, having had time to concentrate on just shooting for the past month and a half. Reference his 75% at the line.

What team in the league would not want a 6'6" PG on the All Defense team, one who fits a team scheme and has a 2:1 ast TO ratio. Makes zero mistakes. Smart reads. Knows how to feed the post. Help the team even off the ball when he has alpha scorers next to him. Do you trust your shot doctors to teach him to translate that steady shot from the FT line to a reliable jumper? Jason Kidd was referenced as the best defending 6'5" PG coming into the league. Couldn't shoot, developed that over time, but could affect the game with his D, rebounding, etc. Granted, this kid hasn't shown Kidd level vision, but the shot looks like it's coming. The champion mindset is already there. We have time to develop him, try him out long term at the spot, if he can indeed play that lead guard role, why would he not be the best pick in the draft?

[nate33]

Mogbo had 4 points 6 rebounds 4 assists 1 steal in 18 minutes in his scrimmage. Looked like a NBA player. Still only 22 years old. Measured with a 7’2” wingspan yesterday.

Per 40 this year: 19.7 points 14.1 rebounds 5.1 assists 2.2 steals 1.1 blocks 2.4 turnovers 64.8% TS

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Another one of these stout, long-armed prototypes like Okongwu, Draymond, Nazr and Bam. He's 6-6.5 no shoes with a 7-2 wingspan. I wonder though, as the league gets bigger, are we going to see these guys fade away? It may no longer be viable to play guys this small against guys like Embiid, Wemby and Jokic.

(I'm not being critical of the idea of drafting Mogbo. I'm mostly just thinking out loud here.)

[TGW]

Castle at #2? Nah. A guard that can't shoot that high in any draft...I'm not seeing it unless he's Jason Kidd 2.0/

[Rafael122]

You guys are selling me on Castle lol. I just can't get past the shooting numbers. I did read he's working out with some sort of shooting trainer that has worked with SGA, KD in the past so hopefully that's a start.

[payitforward]

Mogbo had 4 points 6 rebounds 4 assists 1 steal in 18 minutes in his scrimmage. Looked like a NBA player. Still only 22 years old. Measured with a 7’2” wingspan yesterday.

Per 40 this year: 19.7 points 14.1 rebounds 5.1 assists 2.2 steals 1.1 blocks 2.4 turnovers 64.8% TS

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

I brought up Mogbo in the thread I started about our late R2 pick -- in fact, I started the thread with him in mind!

He's been projected to go undrafted, but I think the Combine will likely raise him some picks above us in R2. Oh well....