Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III)

[LyricalRico]

Wade to the Bulls?

Heat trade: Wade, Haslem, and Marcus Banks
Bulls trade: Hughes, Gooden and #1 overall pick
TRADE ID 4670452

Why for Chicago? They get a superstar to help them compete right away. Could Wade/Deng be the next MJ/Pippen?

Noah/Gray
Haslem/Tyrus
Deng/Nocioni
Wade/Sefolosha
Hinrich/Banks

Why for Miami? They completely rebuild with the top two prospects, not taking any chances with Wade's health. They'll wipe a huge part of their cap clean next offseason and the rest in 2010. By then Rose/Beasley should be ready to compete with the addition of a few veterans from that historic FA class.

Blount/Barron
Beasley/Gooden
Marion/Wright(?)
Hughes/Cook
Rose/(vet mentor)

[Kanyewest]

^^^^
So you would trade a NBA finals MVP who willed his team to finals for an unproven 19 year old rookie? Really? Dwayne Wade is going to be fine; he just shut it down last season so the Heat could accumulate more ping pong balls.

[Wiz99]

^^^^
So you would trade a NBA finals MVP who willed his team to finals for an unproven 19 year old rookie? Really? Dwayne Wade is going to be fine; he just shut it down last season so the Heat could accumulate more ping pong balls.

^^^^
I agree. I think Ole Riley is playing some gamesmenship trying to convince SOMEONE ELSE he might just be crazy enough to deal with Chicago for the #1, in order to scare that 3rd party into doing a deal now more on Riles' terms.

For example, I could see Riles thinking he could take a real run at the Eastern Conference Finals (and hence another shot at a ring) if he trades the #2 to the Clips for a resigned Elton Brand. And you know what, he might just be right. A lineup of Wade, Marion, Brand, Haslem + some shooter at the 2 could really compete with anyone in the East.

Why for the Clips? The (in)famous penny pinching Clips owner would love not having to pay Brand vet star money but get a cheap Beasley on a rookie salary for the next 3 years.

Maybe this is one of those deals that can't happen until after the draft b/c of Elton's option year status. But it makes a lot of sense. If I were Riles, I'd do this before I blew up the team and took 2 rooks. Physically talented as they may be, they are still rooks who haven't proven they have the head or heart to succeed in the NBA.

[miller31time]

Toronto and Indiana are thinking about a trade. Apparently, it's Ford, Rasho and pick(s) for Jermaine O'Neal.

(Got these sources from a GB thread)

Indy Star

Pacers, Toronto talk about trading O'Neal
By Mike Wells
Posted: June 23, 2008

The Indiana Pacers and Jermaine O'Neal could be parting ways in the near future.

The Pacers and Toronto Raptors have discussed a possible deal with O'Neal going north of the border with point guard T.J. Ford and center Rasho Nesterovic coming to Indiana, according to two people with knowledge of the situation. The deal may also include Toronto's first-round pick (No. 17) in Thursday's draft.

The Raptors will have to throw in at least one other player to make the deal work financially.

An issue that could hold up the deal is O'Neal's left knee. O'Neal, who has dealt with injuries the past four seasons, played just 42 games last season. Pacers officials, however, recently said O'Neal's knee is healthy. The six-time All-Star is spending the summer working out in Las Vegas.

Call Star reporter Mike Wells at (317) 444-6053.

Toronto Star

Closing in on a Ford deal

Told you it was going to be a busy week of rumours and speculation and trade talk.

It’s all very tentative and quite up in the air but the Raptors have already investigated the possibility of a blockbuster trade that would net them a veteran – yet expensive – NBA centre.

According to league sources, Toronto has had talks with the Indiana Pacers about acquiring 29-year-old Jermaine O’Neal for a package that would include T.J. Ford, Rasho Nestervoic and, perhaps, the 17th pick in this week’s draft.

The talks are not the point where any deal is imminent and a deal is certainly not assured but the source said the Raptors are aggressively trying to move Ford and O’Neal is one of their targets.

Toronto also still has serious interest in forward Boris Diaw of the Phoenix Suns and is in talks with at least three other teams for trades of a similar magnitude.

O’Neal is coming off an injury-riddled season in which he played just 42 games and averaged 13.6 points and 6.7 rebounds per game. The 6-11 centre has been working out in Las Vegas since just after the 2007-08 season ended and according to reports has just begun full-court work.

Obtaining O’Neal will be a huge two-year financial commitment for the Raptors. He’s due to make about $21 million (all figures U.S.) this season and $23 million in 2009-10. To make the trade work under NBA salary cap rules, Toronto would have to add some other pieces in addition to Ford and Nesterovic but they have several less expensive expiring contracts that would make it work.

But even if the O’Neal trade doesn’t materialize, it does signal just how hard the Raptors are trying to move Ford so they can hand over the starting point guard job to restricted free agent Jose Calderon.

With Phoenix still in the mix and the other teams having talks with Toronto, it would appear Bryan Colangelo will have plenty of options to sift through before Thursday’s draft.

[fishercob]

Ambivalent from TOR's perspective. Another jumpshooting power forward masquerading as a center? It just doesn't strike me as a good fit.

[miller31time]

Ambivalent from TOR's perspective. Another jumpshooting power forward masquerading as a center? It just doesn't strike me as a good fit.

I had the same thoughts. JO's injury problems would scare me to death if I was a Raptors fan.

Just for fun, I checked the numbers on Rasho vs. O'Neal this past season.

JO scored more on a per minute basis was was horribly inefficient. He posted an eFG% of 43.9% and a TS% of 48.9% with a PER of 14.54 (15+ being the league average).

Rasho's eFG% was 55.1%. His TS% was 56.5% and his PER was 16.33.

They're basically equal in rebounding per 40 minutes and are both noted as above-average post defenders, though O'Neal is the far better shot-blocker.

Now, I'm not saying O'Neal and Rasho are equal. Obviously, Jermaine is his team's focal point on offense and will draw a double team frequently, which will take a toll on his %'s, but I just find it funny how they're even comparable.

EDIT: I will say that the biggest benefit for Toronto is the fact that Jermaine O'Neal has a massive expiring deal (21mil or so).

[LyricalRico]

If I'm Toronto, I absolutely make the deal AS LONG AS the #17 is not included. That would be the deal breaker for me. I would say that O'Neal and Ford are both nearly equal injury risks and both players fill areas of need for their respective teams. Toronto benefits by trying to keep up with the rest of the East and the extra players included in the deal would help Indy fill out their roster without adding to their cap. I think it works for both teams.

I would very surprised to see this go down on draft night, though. I think it would probably be a deal for later in the summer when Ford's BYC is dropped and they don't have to include any more players. It can be Rasho+TJ for JO. That seems fair to me.

[LyricalRico]

This just came to me. We've seen how the Rockets will trade out of the first when they can't get who they want (like when they traded Swift and the rights to Gay for Shane Battier). If nobody's there at #25 they like, would they do this to clear cap?

Rockets trade: Battier, Francis, Hayes, Head, Novak, and #25
Lakers trade: Lamar Odom, #58, and rights to Sun Yue
TRADE ID 4674101

Why for Houston? They'd be thin but they'd have another scorer in their starting lineup. If they can get some cheap vet forwards to fill in their bench they should be okay. Yue could be a nice addition down the road to play with Yao.

Yao/Mutombo
Scola/D.Jackson[#58]
Odom/Gist[#54]
TMac/B.Jackson
Alston/Brooks

Possible FAs - Kurt Thomas, Juwan Howard (again), Malik Allen, Matt Barnes, Jarvis Hayes, Bostjan Nachbar, Bonzi Wells (again), Brian Skinner, etc.

Why for Los Angeles? They take on salary to add a stopper for the postseason and get back into the first round.

Bynum/Turiaf/Mihm
Gasol/Radmanovic
Battier/Walton
Kobe/Lee[#25]/Head
Fisher/Farmar

Inactive - Head, Novak, Ariza

[nate33]

It looks like Ron Artest's days in Sacramento are numbered. He might not opt out this year because so few teams have money, but he'll definitely be one of the premier free agents next summer. With that in mind, Artest is basically on a one-year time horizon. He can either play for $7.4M in Sacramento, or he can opt out this year and play with somebody else for the MLE.

If I'm San Antonio, I'd do a little discreet tampering and get Artest to opt out for a 1 year shot at a title with San Antonio. Imagine if San Antonio made the following moves:

1. Sign Artest for 2 years at the full MLE with a player option in Year 2.
2. Resign Kurt Thomas
3. Draft Mario Chalmers.
4. Package Splitter plus their 2009 first rounder plus Michael Finley (resigned for one year at the minimum salary to make the deal work) for Udonis Haslem. (Miami does it for cap room in 2009.)

San Antonio would look like this next year:
PG Parker/Chalmers
SG Ginobili/Barry
SF Artest/Bowen
PF Haslem/Oberto
C Duncan/K.Thomas

[fishercob]

So Portland reportedly has bought pick #27 from New Orleans. Having an owner who is a billionaire really does make things easier for them....

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

It looks like Ron Artest's days in Sacramento are numbered. He might not opt out this year because so few teams have money, but he'll definitely be one of the premier free agents next summer. With that in mind, Artest is basically on a one-year time horizon. He can either play for $7.4M in Sacramento, or he can opt out this year and play with somebody else for the MLE.

If I'm San Antonio, I'd do a little discreet tampering and get Artest to opt out for a 1 year shot at a title with San Antonio. Imagine if San Antonio made the following moves:

1. Sign Artest for 2 years at the full MLE with a player option in Year 2.
2. Resign Kurt Thomas
3. Draft Mario Chalmers.
4. Package Splitter plus their 2009 first rounder plus Michael Finley (resigned for one year at the minimum salary to make the deal work) for Udonis Haslem. (Miami does it for cap room in 2009.)

San Antonio would look like this next year:
PG Parker/Chalmers
SG Ginobili/Barry
SF Artest/Bowen
PF Haslem/Oberto
C Duncan/K.Thomas

Much as that would make the Spurs much better I can't see Duncan or Popovich having the stomachs for Artest's antics.

I believe Posey would be a more likely guy for them to pursue. Also, Josh Childress.

I love the idea of Haslem going to SA for the Spurs.

He wouldn't go for the MLE, but I think Antawn Jamison would really help SA.

[AgentOvechkin08]

RealGM: Hornets Trade 27th pick to Blazers for cash considerations

I wonder what this means for their pick at 13.

[miller31time]

So Portland reportedly has bought pick #27 from New Orleans. Having an owner who is a billionaire really does make things easier for them....

So a New Orleans team in need of some quality depth trades away their only 1st round pick in a deep draft for money? I have to question their motives on this one.

[fishercob]

I am starting to get annoyed with Portland's (legal) exploitation of the rule allowing teams to buy picks. I'd be interested in seeing that rule changed or adjusted.

[LyricalRico]

So a New Orleans team in need of some quality depth trades away their only 1st round pick in a deep draft for money? I have to question their motives on this one.

I saw/read somewhere that Chalmers only stayed in the draft because of a promise from the Hornets. But now that his stock has risen he's probably not going to be there. If he's the only one they targeted, then I can see why they'd want out of the first round.

Also, they have 2 stars and a solid starter in their primes (Paul, West, Chandler) along with a couple youngsters already in the mix (Armstrong, Wright). Even guys like Peja and MoPete have at least a few good years left in them. With them taking the step to contender this past season, my guess is they want to add veterans - not late first round picks.

Really, how much would CDR or Jason Thompson have helped them? They probably wouldn't have even seen the floor.

I am starting to get annoyed with Portland's (legal) exploitation of the rule allowing teams to buy picks. I'd be interested in seeing that rule changed or adjusted.

I don't think other teams mind, especially when the luxury tax savings outweighs the likely contributions of a late first round pick. In this case the Hornets, after resigning Pargo, will have less than the value of the MLE left to fill 4 roster spots before hitting the tax threshold. The mil or so they save here could allow them to sign somebody who will actually help them take the next step. I don't see them complaining at all.

[doclinkin]

RealGM: Hornets Trade 27th pick to Blazers for cash considerations

I wonder what this means for their pick at 13.

Right? My understanding was that P'land was trying to dump players and picks to make roster space. Best guess: they're trying to package a mess of picks to move up. Or they're willing to simply cut players and eat their contracts if they get a guy they like in the draft.

Interesting.

[Halcyon]

Those picks are now just begging to be traded. I see the #27 pick being an addon to some previously proposed deal they have with some team to move up in the draft. They'd probably package some of their young players as well, I would assume.

[MJG]

They could always just nab another foreign player they like, like they've done in the past with picks they've bought. Sure, they could always do that with the 13th pick, but if the owner doesn't mind paying the cash and the player will almost definitely be available in the late first, might as well do it this way and continue to try to get something for the much-more-valuable 13th.

[LyricalRico]

^ I agree. The #27 is probably going to be a Euro that's stashed overseas for a few years. I've already seen Ante Tomic linked to this pick.

If Portland was going to move up IMO it would be for a true PG to run their team and the only one in this trade is Augustin. They might have to go as high as #6 to get him depending on what the Knicks do. I don't think 13+27 is enough to do that. Maybe Augustin slips into their price range but they'd have to wait until draft day to see if that were to happen. If there plan is that volatile, why acquire the pick two days in advance?

No, I think this will be a Euro for sure.

[Ruzious]

Yeah, if Portly really did get the 27th pick for cash considerations, they now have picks 13, 27, 33, 36, and 55. It's hard to believe they'll stay there. I wonder how high they could move up - packaging 27, 33, and 36. Gotta consider it if you're EG - if you think Hendrix will be there at 26.