The Amazingly Sucky Wes Unseld Jr. Thread

[J-Ves]

I was expecting a bad team. In particular, I thought we would suffer a great deal by not having any real defense benders on the roster. When you best offensive player is Kyle Kuzma, you are sure to have a lousy offense. If the Wizards finished dead last in offense, it wouldn't really bother me. You can't squeeze blood from a stone.

What concerns me is how bad the defense is. When I look at the personnel, I see a lot of competent NBA defenders. Tyus Jones played the 3rd most minutes on the 2nd best defensive team in the league last year. Delon Wright is an exceptional defender. Deni Avdija is an exceptional defender. Kuzma is an average-ish defender at least. He is tall, agile, experienced, and has a championship ring as a role playing defender. Gafford is a good shot blocker, albeit not a great defensive decision-maker. I understand that Jordan Poole is bad, and Kispert is limited; but still, I don't see the talent of the worst defensive team in the league. I'm not expecting miracles, but I don't understand why they can't defend as well as a team like the Chicago Bulls (23rd ranked defense) or the Dallas Mavericks (17th ranked defense). Both of those teams lack a quality defensive center and have to worry about hiding bad perimeter defenders, but they somehow manage to be mediocre defensively.

By the numbers though 6 games this is quite possibly the worst defense ever assembled. Baffling

[wewillnevertank]

I was expecting a bad team. In particular, I thought we would suffer a great deal by not having any real defense benders on the roster. When you best offensive player is Kyle Kuzma, you are sure to have a lousy offense. If the Wizards finished dead last in offense, it wouldn't really bother me. You can't squeeze blood from a stone.

What concerns me is how bad the defense is. When I look at the personnel, I see a lot of competent NBA defenders. Tyus Jones played the 3rd most minutes on the 2nd best defensive team in the league last year. Delon Wright is an exceptional defender. Deni Avdija is an exceptional defender. Kuzma is an average-ish defender at least. He is tall, agile, experienced, and has a championship ring as a role playing defender. Gafford is a good shot blocker, albeit not a great defensive decision-maker. I understand that Jordan Poole is bad, and Kispert is limited; but still, I don't see the talent of the worst defensive team in the league. I'm not expecting miracles, but I don't understand why they can't defend as well as a team like the Chicago Bulls (23rd ranked defense) or the Dallas Mavericks (17th ranked defense). Both of those teams lack a quality defensive center and have to worry about hiding bad perimeter defenders, but they somehow manage to be mediocre defensively.

Having a lot of good individual defenders doesn't really help if:

1) Your starting backcourt (Tyus and Poole) is swiss cheese at the point of attack.
2) You have zero support on the bench behind a foul-prone rim protector (Gafford)
3) You don't communicate or ever get back in transition

The point about Dallas scraping together a mediocre defensive team is a prime example of what a more vocal coach can do. I'm not sure where, but there are clips online of Jason Kidd literally coaching through every switch on an individual possession. I don't know if Wes needs to do that specifically, but a little more actual activity from him (as opposed to his standard stoic stance) on the sideline would be a good place to start.

[nate33]

I was expecting a bad team. In particular, I thought we would suffer a great deal by not having any real defense benders on the roster. When you best offensive player is Kyle Kuzma, you are sure to have a lousy offense. If the Wizards finished dead last in offense, it wouldn't really bother me. You can't squeeze blood from a stone.

What concerns me is how bad the defense is. When I look at the personnel, I see a lot of competent NBA defenders. Tyus Jones played the 3rd most minutes on the 2nd best defensive team in the league last year. Delon Wright is an exceptional defender. Deni Avdija is an exceptional defender. Kuzma is an average-ish defender at least. He is tall, agile, experienced, and has a championship ring as a role playing defender. Gafford is a good shot blocker, albeit not a great defensive decision-maker. I understand that Jordan Poole is bad, and Kispert is limited; but still, I don't see the talent of the worst defensive team in the league. I'm not expecting miracles, but I don't understand why they can't defend as well as a team like the Chicago Bulls (23rd ranked defense) or the Dallas Mavericks (17th ranked defense). Both of those teams lack a quality defensive center and have to worry about hiding bad perimeter defenders, but they somehow manage to be mediocre defensively.

Having a lot of good individual defenders doesn't really help if:

1) Your starting backcourt (Tyus and Poole) is swiss cheese at the point of attack.
2) You have zero support on the bench behind a foul-prone rim protector (Gafford)
3) You don't communicate or ever get back in transition

The point about Dallas scraping together a mediocre defensive team is a prime example of what a more vocal coach can do. I'm not sure where, but there are clips online of Jason Kidd literally coaching through every switch on an individual possession. I don't know if Wes needs to do that specifically, but a little more actual activity from him (as opposed to his standard stoic stance) on the sideline would be a good place to start.

Well, yes. That was my point. We have enough defensive talent to be mediocre - not good or anything, but better than worst-in-the-league bad. At some point you have to look at the coach.

[Frichuela]

I was expecting a bad team. In particular, I thought we would suffer a great deal by not having any real defense benders on the roster. When you best offensive player is Kyle Kuzma, you are sure to have a lousy offense. If the Wizards finished dead last in offense, it wouldn't really bother me. You can't squeeze blood from a stone.

What concerns me is how bad the defense is. When I look at the personnel, I see a lot of competent NBA defenders. Tyus Jones played the 3rd most minutes on the 2nd best defensive team in the league last year. Delon Wright is an exceptional defender. Deni Avdija is an exceptional defender. Kuzma is an average-ish defender at least. He is tall, agile, experienced, and has a championship ring as a role playing defender. Gafford is a good shot blocker, albeit not a great defensive decision-maker. I understand that Jordan Poole is bad, and Kispert is limited; but still, I don't see the talent of the worst defensive team in the league. I'm not expecting miracles, but I don't understand why they can't defend as well as a team like the Chicago Bulls (23rd ranked defense) or the Dallas Mavericks (17th ranked defense). Both of those teams lack a quality defensive center and have to worry about hiding bad perimeter defenders, but they somehow manage to be mediocre defensively.

Having a lot of good individual defenders doesn't really help if:

1) Your starting backcourt (Tyus and Poole) is swiss cheese at the point of attack.
2) You have zero support on the bench behind a foul-prone rim protector (Gafford)
3) You don't communicate or ever get back in transition

The point about Dallas scraping together a mediocre defensive team is a prime example of what a more vocal coach can do. I'm not sure where, but there are clips online of Jason Kidd literally coaching through every switch on an individual possession. I don't know if Wes needs to do that specifically, but a little more actual activity from him (as opposed to his standard stoic stance) on the sideline would be a good place to start.

Well, yes. That was my point. We have enough defensive talent to be mediocre - not good or anything, but better than worst-in-the-league bad. At some point you have to look at the coach.

Ding ding ding. You hit the nail in the head Nate.

Of course this roster is flawed, but Wes is very mediocre. We have now 2+ years of Wes coaching the Wiz to prove it.

I hope Will/Michael get rid of him asap. I am up for tanking but it worries me that our younger players are not developing the right habits.

[Kanyewest]

Having a lot of good individual defenders doesn't really help if:

1) Your starting backcourt (Tyus and Poole) is swiss cheese at the point of attack.
2) You have zero support on the bench behind a foul-prone rim protector (Gafford)
3) You don't communicate or ever get back in transition

The point about Dallas scraping together a mediocre defensive team is a prime example of what a more vocal coach can do. I'm not sure where, but there are clips online of Jason Kidd literally coaching through every switch on an individual possession. I don't know if Wes needs to do that specifically, but a little more actual activity from him (as opposed to his standard stoic stance) on the sideline would be a good place to start.

Well, yes. That was my point. We have enough defensive talent to be mediocre - not good or anything, but better than worst-in-the-league bad. At some point you have to look at the coach.

Ding ding ding. You hit the nail in the head Nate.

Of course this roster is flawed, but Wes is very mediocre. We have now 2+ years of Wes coaching the Wiz to prove it.

I hope Will/Michael get rid of him asap. I am up for tanking but it worries me that our younger players are not developing the right habits.

All that yelling last season and the Mavericks were worse than the Wizards last season on defense. It's almost if one team made upgrades (Grant Williams, replacing Woods/McGee with Lively, and Bertans with anybody) and another team traded their 2 best players.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me something that WUJ does that impresses them other than his last name.

[leswizards]

Well, yes. That was my point. We have enough defensive talent to be mediocre - not good or anything, but better than worst-in-the-league bad. At some point you have to look at the coach.

Ding ding ding. You hit the nail in the head Nate.

Of course this roster is flawed, but Wes is very mediocre. We have now 2+ years of Wes coaching the Wiz to prove it.

I hope Will/Michael get rid of him asap. I am up for tanking but it worries me that our younger players are not developing the right habits.

All that yelling last season and the Mavericks were worse than the Wizards last season on defense. It's almost if one team made upgrades (Grant Williams, replacing Woods/McGee with Lively, and Bertans with anybody) and another team traded their 2 best players.

The Wizards were 3-6 in the 9 games last season where neither Beal nor kp played, and they were far more competitive in their 6 losses than they have been in the 5 losses this year. Something else is at play than just losing those 2.

[payitforward]

I refuse to believe this wizards team is this bad....

Why?

Of course we are this bad. Why would we not be?

We've had a zillion bad drafts in a row. This year we have an 18-19 year old R1 pick w/ a lot of upside, but no one is expecting him to put up good numbers is heavy minutes as a rookie (would be great if he did of course, but...).

Why would we be any good at all?

... I feel that Wes Jr also bares a huge responsibility for how bad this team looked....

We are just getting started on what will clearly wind up a total rebuild. No one could make this roster anything other than what it's shown so far.

I don’t have a problem with the team being 1-6. I have a problem with a team that looks like it doesn’t even belong on an nba court. And, yes wuj bares a huge responsibility for that, and I am quite certain that better coaching could make this team look more competitive.

And actually the wizards haven’t blown a zillion draft picks in a row. Deni is looking good. Kispert was looking good last season but seems to suck this year. Johnny Davis sucked last year, but he is playing well this season. Even Rui out in Los Angeles is playing well. So, it seems that the Wizards have had 5 straight (including bilal) decent first round picks, but are stuck with a coach who is incapable of getting decent consistent production out of those first round picks.

So... if Deni is improving rapidly, how come Wes gets no credit for that?
& if Kispert was good last season, why does Wes get no credit? Then suddenly gets dinged for his looking bad this season?
Oh, & that's while the opposite has happened to Johnny -- but no credit to Wes for his improvement...

& on... e.g. Beal was bad in '21-22 but good in '22-23 (until injured). Which of those was Wes's doing?
Meanwhile, Gafford was about the same those two years.

TBH, I really don't want to have an argument about this subject. How about we just agree to disagree?

[Kanyewest]

Ding ding ding. You hit the nail in the head Nate.

Of course this roster is flawed, but Wes is very mediocre. We have now 2+ years of Wes coaching the Wiz to prove it.

I hope Will/Michael get rid of him asap. I am up for tanking but it worries me that our younger players are not developing the right habits.

All that yelling last season and the Mavericks were worse than the Wizards last season on defense. It's almost if one team made upgrades (Grant Williams, replacing Woods/McGee with Lively, and Bertans with anybody) and another team traded their 2 best players.

The Wizards were 3-6 in the 9 games last season where neither Beal nor kp played, and they were far more competitive in their 6 losses than they have been in the 5 losses this year. Something else is at play than just losing those 2.

The 3 wins
- The Bulls without DeRozan
- The Mavs (Kuzma's super bowl vs Dinwiddie)
- The Heat resting all it's starters.

[BobbyD10]

Haven't posted here in about 3 years (I used to be dandridge 10). Started coaching HS basketball and just lost interest in the Wizards, primarily because of the Grunfeld/Sheppard era and treadmill of mediocrity. I really just started watching again given that they finally have committed to rebuild.

I think Unseld is probably an adequate coach from an X and O's perspective. Let's face it, there is not a lot of difference between coaches on the offensive and defensive schemes in the NBA. Where I think Unseld's main issue is he is too nice of guy and there is no accountability. I have heard this from insiders in the organization and its no surprise Kispert raised this issue in the offseason without naming Unseld directly. I mean, when have we ever seen Unseld yell at a player or even pull aside a player and affirmatively correct them for jacking up a bad shot, not getting back on D, blowing a defensive rotation, etc. All he does is clap and chew his gum on the sidelines. Of course, he may try to do it behind the scenes but that is not what I have heard. Our stars like Beal and Kuzma in the past got away with jacking bad shots, playing no D, etc. without any ramifications. That was one of our main issues.

I was at least pleased with the fact that he sat Jordan and Jones for long stretches last night. As someone has already noted, they have been sieves at the point of attack so far through the first several games. Unseld has to make it clear that if you don't play D, you don't play.

Only reason why I am watching this year is to see if Bilal, Deni and some of the other youngins develop. The sooner the Wizards can get rid of Poole the better. He's not the type of player you build around...selfish, takes terrible shots, bad defender, etc. Obviously, the main problem with the team is the lack of talent, not Unseld...but that is by design. If the youngins are going to learn how to play the right way, Unseld needs to start holding players that play the wrong way accountable.

[leswizards]

Why?

Of course we are this bad. Why would we not be?

We've had a zillion bad drafts in a row. This year we have an 18-19 year old R1 pick w/ a lot of upside, but no one is expecting him to put up good numbers is heavy minutes as a rookie (would be great if he did of course, but...).

Why would we be any good at all?



We are just getting started on what will clearly wind up a total rebuild. No one could make this roster anything other than what it's shown so far.

I don’t have a problem with the team being 1-6. I have a problem with a team that looks like it doesn’t even belong on an nba court. And, yes wuj bares a huge responsibility for that, and I am quite certain that better coaching could make this team look more competitive.

And actually the wizards haven’t blown a zillion draft picks in a row. Deni is looking good. Kispert was looking good last season but seems to suck this year. Johnny Davis sucked last year, but he is playing well this season. Even Rui out in Los Angeles is playing well. So, it seems that the Wizards have had 5 straight (including bilal) decent first round picks, but are stuck with a coach who is incapable of getting decent consistent production out of those first round picks.

So... if Deni is improving rapidly, how come Wes gets no credit for that?
& if Kispert was good last season, why does Wes get no credit? Then suddenly gets dinged for his looking bad this season?
Oh, & that's while the opposite has happened to Johnny -- but no credit to Wes for his improvement...

& on... e.g. Beal was bad in '21-22 but good in '22-23 (until injured). Which of those was Wes's doing?
Meanwhile, Gafford was about the same those two years.

TBH, I really don't want to have an argument about this subject. How about we just agree to disagree?

It is kind of ridiculous that in one post, you are belittling the Wizards first round picks, and in your very next response you are trying to use their development as a way to defend wuj. The Wizards made decent (but probably not the best picks available in most if not all cases) first round picks the past few years. These picks have shown little to no development. I don’t see how the little development they have made somehow reflects positively on wuj.

This is the amazingly sucky wuj thread. If you don’t want to read valid criticisms of wuj, you shouldn’t read the thread. If you don’t want to argue about valid criticisms of wuj, you shouldn’t respond to those valid criticisms.

[payitforward]

I don’t have a problem with the team being 1-6. I have a problem with a team that looks like it doesn’t even belong on an nba court. And, yes wuj bares a huge responsibility for that, and I am quite certain that better coaching could make this team look more competitive.

And actually the wizards haven’t blown a zillion draft picks in a row. Deni is looking good. Kispert was looking good last season but seems to suck this year. Johnny Davis sucked last year, but he is playing well this season. Even Rui out in Los Angeles is playing well. So, it seems that the Wizards have had 5 straight (including bilal) decent first round picks, but are stuck with a coach who is incapable of getting decent consistent production out of those first round picks.

So... if Deni is improving rapidly, how come Wes gets no credit for that?
& if Kispert was good last season, why does Wes get no credit? Then suddenly gets dinged for his looking bad this season?
Oh, & that's while the opposite has happened to Johnny -- but no credit to Wes for his improvement...

& on... e.g. Beal was bad in '21-22 but good in '22-23 (until injured). Which of those was Wes's doing?
Meanwhile, Gafford was about the same those two years.

TBH, I really don't want to have an argument about this subject. How about we just agree to disagree?

It is kind of ridiculous that in one post, you are belittling the Wizards first round picks, and in your very next response you are trying to use their development as a way to defend wuj. The Wizards made decent (but probably not the best picks available in most if not all cases) first round picks the past few years. These picks have shown little to no development. I don’t see how the little development they have made somehow reflects positively on wuj.

This is the amazingly sucky wuj thread. If you don’t want to read valid criticisms of wuj, you shouldn’t read the thread. If you don’t want to argue about valid criticisms of wuj, you shouldn’t respond to those valid criticisms.

I guess you want to pick a fight, huh?

Okay then -- p[lease explain why people ought to take your criticisms of Unseld seriously.

For example, maybe you have the qualifications to judge NBA coaches! & if so, feel free to mention them.

Until you do, it's hard to see what makes your opinion is an informed one. Until you do, there's not much reason to take your opinions seriously.

Don't get me wrong -- you're a fan: you have the right to an opinion. & any Wizards fan has plenty of reasons to criticize the team as a whole!

For that matter, Unseld may be inept. Only... how would you know?

[payitforward]

... The Wizards made decent (but probably not the best picks available in most if not all cases) first round picks the past few years. ....

Sorry, but no.
In fact:

2019: Rui was a terrible pick.
We also wasted out R2 pick that year.

2020: Deni is having a good start to the season. I hope it continues. & I was happy we picked him, btw.
But... I was wrong. There have been a bunch of better players picked later -- in fact the best player in that draft went at #12, & one of the other very best guys went at 30.
Not to mention that, again, we wasted our R2 pick.

2021: I would agree with you in this case; Kispert was a "decent pick" at 15. Tho there were a few guys people here wanted (e.g. Trey Murphy III) who would have been better picks.

But, then there was the Isaiah Jackson fiasco at 22. Followed by the Isaiah Todd fiasco at 31. Not a good draft.

2022: No, Johnny Davis wasn't a good pick. Still hope he'll turn out to be an NBA player.

In any case, whether a FO manages a draft well involves a lot more than the question of whether they made a "decent" pick at a particular spot -- either in R1 or R2. Not to mention that it was his drafts that got Tommy Sheppard fired, obviously (his trades were quite good!).

[leswizards]

... The Wizards made decent (but probably not the best picks available in most if not all cases) first round picks the past few years. ....

Sorry, but no.
In fact:

2019: Rui was a terrible pick.
We also wasted out R2 pick that year.

2020: Deni is having a good start to the season. I hope it continues. & I was happy we picked him, btw.
But... I was wrong. There have been a bunch of better players picked later -- in fact the best player in that draft went at #12, & one of the other very best guys went at 30.
Not to mention that, again, we wasted our R2 pick.

2021: I would agree with you in this case; Kispert was a "decent pick" at 15. Tho there were a few guys people here wanted (e.g. Trey Murphy III) who would have been better picks.

But, then there was the Isaiah Jackson fiasco at 22. Followed by the Isaiah Todd fiasco at 31. Not a good draft.

2022: No, Johnny Davis wasn't a good pick. Still hope he'll turn out to be an NBA player.

In any case, whether a FO manages a draft well involves a lot more than the question of whether they made a "decent" pick at a particular spot -- either in R1 or R2. Not to mention that it was his drafts that got Tommy Sheppard fired, obviously (his trades were quite good!).

Paraphrasing pif:

Post 1: “our first round picks were abysmal for years”
Post 2: “wuj should get credit for developing our first round picks”
Post 3: “our first round picks suck”

I think you suffer from cognitive dissonance. You have built up a narrative in your head that Tommy Shepherd was awful, and if anyone writes anything that challenges your perception of that narrative you have an obsessive need to attack those opinions. It is tiresome. There is ample evidence that wuj was not a good coach. Me writing that triggers you because you have an obsessive need to place all the blame for the past 2 years of failure on shepherd’s shoulders.

And according to leonsis what got Shepherd fired was his failure to make the playoffs and not his draft picks. Shepherd got rid of Rui, other than that all his first round picks are still with the Wizards and 2 of them got extensions recently.

[gambitx777]

... The Wizards made decent (but probably not the best picks available in most if not all cases) first round picks the past few years. ....

Sorry, but no.
In fact:

2019: Rui was a terrible pick.
We also wasted out R2 pick that year.

2020: Deni is having a good start to the season. I hope it continues. & I was happy we picked him, btw.
But... I was wrong. There have been a bunch of better players picked later -- in fact the best player in that draft went at #12, & one of the other very best guys went at 30.
Not to mention that, again, we wasted our R2 pick.

2021: I would agree with you in this case; Kispert was a "decent pick" at 15. Tho there were a few guys people here wanted (e.g. Trey Murphy III) who would have been better picks.

But, then there was the Isaiah Jackson fiasco at 22. Followed by the Isaiah Todd fiasco at 31. Not a good draft.

2022: No, Johnny Davis wasn't a good pick. Still hope he'll turn out to be an NBA player.

In any case, whether a FO manages a draft well involves a lot more than the question of whether they made a "decent" pick at a particular spot -- either in R1 or R2. Not to mention that it was his drafts that got Tommy Sheppard fired, obviously (his trades were quite good!).

Paraphrasing pif:

Post 1: “our first round picks were abysmal for years”
Post 2: “wuj should get credit for developing our first round picks”
Post 3: “our first round picks suck”

I think you suffer from cognitive dissonance. You have built up a narrative in your head that Tommy Shepherd was awful, and if anyone writes anything that challenges your perception of that narrative you have an obsessive need to attack those opinions. It is tiresome. There is ample evidence that wuj was not a good coach. Me writing that triggers you because you have an obsessive need to place all the blame for the past 2 years of failure on shepherd’s shoulders.

And according to leonsis what got Shepherd fired was his failure to make the playoffs and not his draft picks. Shepherd got rid of Rui, other than that all his first round picks are still with the Wizards and 2 of them got extensions recently.

Wuj should in theory be fired asap. Bring in new blood someone fresh. Mark Jackson maybe? Or the better can gundy, or gil!

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[leswizards]

Last season, I posted how there are a disproportionate number of players who have their career worst season in terms of drtg playing for wuj. Well, all the new wizards (Jones, Gallinari, Poole, Shamet, and Muscala) are having their career worst seasons in terms of drtg. I believe this is because wuj is an awful coach who can’t get his players to play effective team defense.

Additionally, Kuzma, Jones, and Poole are getting more mpg than all other wizards except Deni. They also have the worst plus minus and the worst on/off on the team with the exception of mike Muscala.

Wuj constantly shows an inability to figure who his best players are and to distribute minutes accordingly.

I don’t think Kuzma and Jones are the worst players on the team. I think they have the misfortune of sharing most their minutes with Jordan Poole. I don’t think we can judge Kuzma and Jones until Poole gets benched.

The last 2 games were winnable, but wuj blew them by playing the wrong players in crunch time.

[Endless Loop]

I was thinking that WUJ was handling things differently this year, given, for instance, how Poole's minutes fell after the first couple of games.

But last night...

And btw, Poole played 35 minutes.

Wondering what the vaunted Wiz brain trust will do now. There's 70-something games left. Are they going to be patient and see how things will play out?

It's a shame they weren't patient before they let Porzingas go for next to nothing.

This is surely the darkness before the dawn. Because right now it seem like the team has traded away its only decent assets for nothing; they took on a terrible 4 year deal in Poole; the come-from-ahead losses are awful; and there's little evidence of off-court process improvements.

I'm hoping that Bilal will be runner up for ROY; Poole just needs to be in the right role; the new players just need to get used to each other; the team will actually give its young players more time; and that WUJ will figure out what he's doing wrong.

For the true Wiz fan, it's always about next year anyway...

[Tyrone Messby]

The Poole contract doesn’t matter over the next two seasons. We are a terrible team and should be tanking. This is what a lot of us have been begging for. We can deal Poole out in 2026 or let him the season after.

[Kanyewest]

On the Bill Simmons podcast, Doc Rivers and Simmons were talking about the Wizards - Simmons said that the Wizards coach is probably going to get fired- Rivers replied back that Unseld Jr. is an excellent coach but that the situation in Washington is pretty bad- referring to Jordan Poole's behavior.

[FAH1223]

On the Bill Simmons podcast, Doc Rivers and Simmons were talking about the Wizards - Simmons said that the Wizards coach is probably going to get fired- Rivers replied back that Unseld Jr. is an excellent coach but that the situation in Washington is pretty bad- referring to Jordan Poole's behavior.

Time stamp?