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Discussing Potential Coaches Thread

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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#161 » by Dat2U » Tue Mar 3, 2009 5:09 pm

nate33 wrote:
Ivan Carter wrote:As with everything else involving Abe Pollin's franchise, the choice of the new coach will likely revolve around Arenas, the mercurial star who is armed with a $111 million contract and a mixture of talent and personality that can alternately make a coach look like a genius or make him want to jump off the Key Bridge.

"Bottom line: Whoever gets that job -- and it's a good job if Gilbert is right and you come back with Butler and Jamison -- priority one is handling" Arenas, said a rival front-office executive who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he did not want to hamper future dealings with the Wizards. "The thing you had to appreciate about Eddie Jordan was that he had a system that made the kid a star but he also handled all of his quirks. That's a rare combination and, now, the guy has that contract. There are some coaches who flat out could not deal with a player like that. So, whoever Ernie chooses, that coach is going to have to be able to work around Arenas. How that plays out is going to determine the direction of that franchise."

link


Wow, those are pretty strong words. Is Arenas that difficult to deal with? Is his presence going to drive away potential candidates? Will Arenas' "quirks" be less of an issue now that he's had an additional 2 years of maturation while watching from the sidelines?


Arenas might be that difficult for Ivan to deal with (or interview) but honestly its a load of crap to me. Is Gil quirky? Absolutely but I have a hard time believing he's a real problem child on the court and in the locker room. Sure he's had some bouts of immaturity but I don't see him as some uncontrollable ego that needs to be "managed'. If anything, I think that players coach mentality of EJ created abit of a monster b/c he gave so much freedom to a guy like Gilbert who honestly took advantage of it in terms of his shot selection & dedication to defense. Also at some point over the last year or so I think Gil lost respect for EJ and recognized that EJ really didn't have control of things and he could run right over him. I think a huge mistake would be to get another players coach.

That's why I'd prefer a tough minded coach that will demand accountability. A coach that's not afraid to hold players responsible and not afraid to discipline the veterans as well as the young guys. Heck, I remember reading an article (it may have been SI) a few years back where Gil's father stated that Gil responds better to disciplined leadership and how a guy like Lute Olson at Arizona was the perfect coach for Gilbert.

This is just more garbage spewed by Ivan. Anything he puts out nowadays should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#162 » by Rafael122 » Wed Mar 4, 2009 3:51 am

From all accounts, Gilbert works hard, maybe a little too hard. If the guy averages 24 points a game, with 5 assists and maybe 4 boards...you can deal with his quirkiness.

I see Ivan's already written an article that somewhat pushes Tapscott as the next head coach. This is exactly what's wrong with the local media. Tapscott has been in this area for years, lived year for decades, he knows the media, he knows how to spin things. He knows he's never going to get flak from the local paper as long as he paints everything a rosy picture.

Really, I think Ernie has Thibs on speed dial. He has to know this team needs some sort of defensive coach. What will be intreresting is what assistants the new coach will bring in, assuming the coach is not in house.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#163 » by miller31time » Wed Mar 4, 2009 4:22 am

I agree, Raf.

And let's not forget...just because EG and company say all of the politically correct things to the public and to Ivan, that doesn't mean they don't know EXACTLY what's wrong with the Wizards, and EXACTLY what they (we) need.

You're probably right that Ernie has his sights set on TT. We can only hope...
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#164 » by Zerocious » Wed Mar 4, 2009 4:35 am

i hope we dont get this clown from toronto, what'shis face?
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#165 » by miller31time » Wed Mar 4, 2009 4:37 am

Zerocious wrote:i hope we dont get this clown from toronto, what'shis face?


Sam Mitchell? I'd basically give up my Wizards fandom.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#166 » by queridiculo » Wed Mar 4, 2009 4:37 am

The way I see it Thibodeau would be the logical choice. He's got championship experience, defensive expertise, knows our rivals inside out and has extensive experience with the Eastern Conference.

He's worked with some great basketball people and his ties to Ernie Grunfeld date back to the Knicks.

If he's not the guy I'd be really surprised.

Landing Griffin would obviously be the dream scenario, but assuming that doesn't work our we could still attempt turn a combination of the pick, a young player and Jamison into another interior defender with scoring touch to lineup alongside Haywood.

Arenas
Butler
McGuire
PF X
Haywood

With some of Thibs defensive magic carrying over that's a lineup that can both be competent on defense, a terror on the boards and still has enough scoring power to get it done on offense.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#167 » by doclinkin » Wed Mar 4, 2009 5:29 am

hermitkid wrote:The way I see it Thibodeau would be the logical choice. He's got championship experience, defensive expertise, knows our rivals inside out and has extensive experience with the Eastern Conference.


Plus Doc Rivers has the endorsement from the Celts stars, no way to move up in that organization.

A few question marks and speed bumps exist with this plan though. Without head coaching experience there's no track record what sort of a player motivator and in-game coach Thibbs is. Smart guy, stat oriented, immersed in defensive principles, but he's never had to call the shots make the decisions and get his guys to follow him into the trenches.

Point two is like unto the first: this is the guy that Eddie was axed for. That was the plan all along, he'd better be significantly convincing on his own behalf to make up for the fact that a well-loved coach was sacrificed to pave the path for him.

Otherwise if not bad blood, or player revolt, still, team chemistry is at risk. We have good guys on this squad, guys who play with pride, but if someone kneecaps your brother and takes over as the new boss, well it may be tougher to buy in wholeheartedly to everything he says. Especially when he benches Jamison for instance in favor of Blatche (sitting the one player who has given 100% of whatever talent he has-- in favor of a sometimey guy with a record of lazy play, but who by virtue of size, happens to defend better by accident at times than Jamison does on purpose). It might be the smart play, but it's a tough sell on the motivational front.

This team is hungry to win. They also love to score, get they swag on. I'd be curious to see what sort of offense Thibbs could develop to maximize offense and defense both. Or any head coach. I'd be interested to see what direction the franchise goes in the draft/free agency to build a roster to his standard. That will tell you alot about where we are headed.

I suspect chemistry-wise, because of EJ and the affection that the core of the team had for him, Thibbs would be a trickier hire than say: Tomjanovich with his championship rings; Van Gundy with the national profile; Silas maybe, with Zo as a Big Man assistant or the like; or even Bill Laimbeer, remembered as a badass from grainy footage of yesteryear. Not saying Thibbs wouldn't prove to be a fine coach, just saying he's got a handicap here at the start that another coach would not have.

If the offensive system sputtered, could be you'd hear murmurs of how much more wide open it used to be...
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#168 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Mar 4, 2009 6:43 am

With his experience winning championships, him being a skilled big, and him having played on a team with both great defense and a scoring PG; Laimbeer would be a logical choice IMO.

Gil is like a bigger Isaiih. McGuire will remind of Rodman. Butler is like Aguire/Dantley. Brendan will be given a chance to show some of his offense a la Laimbeer. Laimbeer will be thrilled with Javale's upside and impressed with the skill level of Blatche. Crittenton isn't like Dumars, but he can play good defense at PG or SG, and will be all the more effective when he gets confident shooting jumpers.

The thing Laimbeer would insist upon is nastiness on defense.

Don't see how he couldn't help but be real successful coaching this team next season.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#169 » by ZonkertheBrainless » Wed Mar 4, 2009 12:11 pm

ooh! ooh! and N1 is like Vinnie the Microwave!
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#170 » by LyricalRico » Wed Mar 4, 2009 12:40 pm

^ Laimbeer was #1 on my list 2-3 years ago when I first suggested it and he's still near the top now (Flip Saunders is currently #1). I especially like what he brings to a team with so many young guys that he can mold. Aside from Jamison, this team has enough guys with potential for defense/toughness that we could be Bad Boys Lite.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#171 » by fishercob » Wed Mar 4, 2009 1:13 pm

Doc, you bring up an interesting point on players' perception of Thibbs. I hadn't considered that, and also wonder if it could be an issue.

Laimbeer could be a good fit, but he's always been a big ego/personality and attention-seeker himself. I'm not sure how that meshes with this group. CCJ, half of Laimbeer's offense was about his jumper (deadly on the pick and pop). That's not Haywood's game.

Flip Saunders doesn't excite me given his "failures" in Detroit.

I guess I'm most interested/excited by the out of the box guys -- Blatt, Jorger, Thibbs and much more wary of "re-treads" like Avery, Saunders, and aging Silas, etc.

The next twelve months will define Ernie's tenure with the Wizards -- who he hires and coach and how he shapes the roster. The potential is there for greatness. We'll just have to wait and see.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#172 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 4, 2009 2:01 pm

fishercob wrote:I guess I'm most interested/excited by the out of the box guys -- Blatt, Jorger, Thibbs and much more wary of "re-treads" like Avery, Saunders, and aging Silas, etc.

Me too.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#173 » by fishercob » Wed Mar 4, 2009 2:07 pm

nate33 wrote:
fishercob wrote:I guess I'm most interested/excited by the out of the box guys -- Blatt, Jorger, Thibbs and much more wary of "re-treads" like Avery, Saunders, and aging Silas, etc.

Me too.


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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#174 » by miller31time » Wed Mar 4, 2009 2:19 pm

If Silas' coaching skills are anywhere near as bad as his commentating ability, then no NBA team should go near him, especially the Wizards.

God....does EVERYTHING about the Cavs have to suck ass?
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#175 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Mar 4, 2009 3:05 pm

ZonkertheBrainless wrote:ooh! ooh! and N1 is like Vinnie the Microwave!

Didn't include that in the post, but I sure thought it.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#176 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Mar 4, 2009 3:20 pm

LyricalRico wrote:^ Laimbeer was #1 on my list 2-3 years ago when I first suggested it and he's still near the top now (Flip Saunders is currently #1). I especially like what he brings to a team with so many young guys that he can mold. Aside from Jamison, this team has enough guys with potential for defense/toughness that we could be Bad Boys Lite.

Lyrical, your list is about like mine. Flip gets it done and I would have no problems at all with the Wizards selecting him as coach. Saunders won in the CBA, with Minnesota (and when he had talent next to Garnett in Sprewell and Cassell, Minnesota did advance in the playoffs), and he got jobbed in Detroit (which is why I'm glad the Pistons suck this season).

Flip has an advantage over Laimbeer of having dealt with NBA egos as a head coach for years. Laimbeer's been coaching a different species, if you know what I mean.

Honestly, I see SUCCESS for almost whoever inherits the team. They will automatically double, maybe triple, the win totals of this sorry team. Great opportunity to come in and win coach of the year.

As for my top choice for coach, I would probably pick Joerger, just based on his youth and what he did with the Dakota Wizards and other minor league teams. Seems like a young genius type to me. Memphis has him on their staff, but I'm hoping since they hired Hollins, Joerger is available.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/joerger_070622.html

Joerger enters his first NBA coaching position as one of the most successful minor league basketball coaches in history. During his seven seasons, Joerger led his teams to three CBA titles and one IBA title in addition to his 2006-07 D-League championship with the Wizards. His five titles earns him the distinction of having more minor league championships than coaching veterans Phil Jackson, George Karl, Eric Musselman, and Flip Saunders combined.

Joerger recorded a combined 232-117 (.665) career head coaching record with Dakota (2000-04, 06-07) and Sioux Falls (2004-06). Known for his ability to teach the game, Joerger had 18 NBA call-ups during his last four seasons with the SkyForce and Wizards.


To me, hire Joerger and plan on winning the NBA championship in 2-3 years. He's young like the team is.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#177 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Mar 4, 2009 3:35 pm

fishercob wrote:Doc, you bring up an interesting point on players' perception of Thibbs. I hadn't considered that, and also wonder if it could be an issue.

Laimbeer could be a good fit, but he's always been a big ego/personality and attention-seeker himself. I'm not sure how that meshes with this group. CCJ, half of Laimbeer's offense was about his jumper (deadly on the pick and pop). That's not Haywood's game.

Flip Saunders doesn't excite me given his "failures" in Detroit.

I guess I'm most interested/excited by the out of the box guys -- Blatt, Jorger, Thibbs and much more wary of "re-treads" like Avery, Saunders, and aging Silas, etc.

The next twelve months will define Ernie's tenure with the Wizards -- who he hires and coach and how he shapes the roster. The potential is there for greatness. We'll just have to wait and see.


fish, doc, points noted about Thibbs. Defensive philosophy and nagging emphasis might not fly as well without an ubuntu coach in Rivers selling it to the players. Butler and Jamison might soon dislike Thibodeau since by requiring them to defend first, he'd take energy away that they reserve for putting up shots.

fish, great points about Laimbeer, too. He's into drama. He was a pick-and-pop type C. Not Brendan's game. (I think Bill would be fine for sure next year, though. Down the road not as sure).

I'm definitely against Avery (too abrasive, and IMO way overrated as a coach) and Silas (too old).

Of the upstarts, I listed Blatt real early in this thread as a person to be interested in. Not coaching in the NBA would be a slight reservation with him. To me though, he's not a bad choice at all if available.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#178 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Mar 4, 2009 4:24 pm

doclinkin wrote:Hitting me at my weak spot. Either of the Dave's have been on my radar for a while. Blatt I think was running Maccabi Tel Aviv when they won the Euros (with Jasikecius IIRC-- Maceo Baston, Anthony Parker... I forget why I was following them. Maybe becuase Sarunas played next to Navarro in in Spain? And I'd seen him play at UMD?). And Joerger was kicking tail in the minors every damn year pre- and post- D-league. I respect CBA experience from the bad old days.

The only difficulty: both have succeeded best when they have GM roles and control over roster moves. Both ID and recruit better talent than their counterparts and win that way.

But on the positives: Every year he's coached Joerger had multiple Defensive first teamers, often with a DPOY in whatever league he's coached. In-game tweaking is his metier (according to minor league message boards and the comment sections of Dakota based newspapers. It's not like it's easy to find video here).

And David Blatt for his part runs a crisp and wicked Princeton hybrid. Multiple attacks from multiple angles. Easier offensive transition from this squad, similar starting principles.

Drawbacks: both have a tendency to piss off their respective owners and frontoffices. Not sure how they do with players. I recall their players liking Joerger (not sure about Blatt) but that often happens on winning teams.

Also: Laimbeer is in my top five favorite NBA villains. In the conversation with Reggie, Oakley, Stockton, and I dunno who else.


Just thought I'd save doc the trouble and repost that. Good stuff per usual from doc. :)
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#179 » by dobrojim » Wed Mar 4, 2009 6:37 pm

Rafael122 wrote:From all accounts, Gilbert works hard, maybe a little too hard. If the guy averages 24 points a game, with 5 assists and maybe 4 boards...you can deal with his quirkiness.

I see Ivan's already written an article that somewhat pushes Tapscott as the next head coach. This is exactly what's wrong with the local media. Tapscott has been in this area for years, lived year for decades, he knows the media, he knows how to spin things. He knows he's never going to get flak from the local paper as long as he paints everything a rosy picture.

Really, I think Ernie has Thibs on speed dial. He has to know this team needs some sort of defensive coach. What will be intreresting is what assistants the new coach will bring in, assuming the coach is not in house.


I thought I remembered seeing the opposite from Ivan. Basically that Tapps has
virtually no chance to be the coach next year.

I not a fan of JVG or Flip.

I hope you are right about TT. I hope that the reason we're not hearing anything
is because EG DOES want TT, but can't make a move or even talk to him until the
season is over.

Who our next coach is will have more impact on next year than anything that
is likely to happen with the roster.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#180 » by dobrojim » Wed Mar 4, 2009 7:38 pm

LyricalRico wrote:^ Laimbeer was #1 on my list 2-3 years ago when I first suggested it and he's still near the top now (Flip Saunders is currently #1). I especially like what he brings to a team with so many young guys that he can mold. Aside from Jamison, this team has enough guys with potential for defense/toughness that we could be Bad Boys Lite.


I'm not sure what you see in Flip.

Care to elaborate on why you think he would be a good choice?
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