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Discussing Potential Coaches Thread

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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#321 » by hands11 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:23 am

miller31time wrote:Sacramento seems intent on going after EJ, and honestly, it's not a bad idea on their part. EJ is a great offensive mind and could probably turn Sacramento's piss-poor offense into a respectable one (or at least not embarrassingly bad). Their defense literally cannot get any worse (they're 30th in the league) so it's not like he'll kill them in that area.

For a rebuilding team that needs both structure and a learning environment, I think it's a good hire if they do decide to go in that direction.

And that would also take another team off of TT's option-list (though I, like everyone else here, have not heard any inclination that he has the Wizards on his list).



Are we talking about the same TT who would already be here if it wasn't for EJ?

I think it is not only safe to say we are on his list but it's most likely already a done deal with him and EG.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#322 » by miller31time » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:03 am

hands11 wrote:Are we talking about the same TT who would already be here if it wasn't for EJ?


The very same.

I think it is not only safe to say we are on his list but it's most likely already a done deal with him and EG.


Possibly. Probably. But unless I see a published report stating that the Wizards are on his list, it's pure speculation. Maybe he doesn't want to come back to D.C after the EJ situation (even though EJ is gone). Who knows.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#323 » by pancakes3 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:08 am

bring ej back
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#324 » by doclinkin » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:42 am

pancakes3 wrote:bring ej back



Heh. As Tom Thibodeaux's offensive assistant.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#325 » by eltacoman » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:38 am

i hope we bring TT as our coach ... but all the drama that happen before it might make TT just try to avoid us ... so if we bring Flip in a proven vet coach that Ernie wants then that would not be bad at all
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#326 » by Rafael122 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:43 pm

Chris Sheridan on ESPN also said Flip is the frontrunner. Where there's smoke, there's fire. I guess we have to resign ourselves to the fact that he may be the next coach.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#327 » by miller31time » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:40 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Chris Sheridan on ESPN also said Flip is the frontrunner. Where there's smoke, there's fire. I guess we have to resign ourselves to the fact that he may be the next coach.


Not the worst choice but I'd MUCH rather have TT. This team needs a defensive mastermind, not a solid all-around coach, IMHO.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#328 » by fishercob » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:06 pm

My question is that if FLip's the guy, why didn't they just hire him right away? Wouldn't it stand to reason that if they wait until the summer to make the hire that their target(s) are otherwise disposed right now?

Some might say that at 1-11 with our injuries this season was a lost cause, so they figured why spend the money on Flip? But if the season was really a lost cause wouldn't they want Flip coming in to implement his system right away -- sort of a head start on next year?

Something just doesn't smell right about the flip rumors. Seems like classic Ernie mis-direction to me.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#329 » by wizards-fan » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:47 pm

fishercob wrote:My question is that if FLip's the guy, why didn't they just hire him right away? Wouldn't it stand to reason that if they wait until the summer to make the hire that their target(s) are otherwise disposed right now?


IIRC, it's almost always an assistant or someone from within the organization that is promoted. Bringing someone from outside (event 10-12 games into the season) is probably considered a excessively drastic move and is far too disruptive to the team. That guy would want all new assistants, new systems on offense and defense, and probably a few new players too. No chance of all that happening in-season.

If the goal is a first-time coach, TT is fine. But I believe the reports that the team wants a veteran coach to mesh with a largely veteran team. One who can potentially come in an immediately guide this team to the Eastern Conference Finals. That being said, I think Flip Saunders is far and away the most qualified candidate. Forget the bias you might have about him being "offensive-minded" or a "players coach" and "underachieving in the playoffs" ... just look up the entirety of his experience and accomplishments and compare them to Avery Johnson or Sam Mitchell. It's not even close! Look at his recent history -- his last four full seasons as head coach -- and consider if that's something we might want in DC.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#330 » by TheKingOfVa360 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:40 pm

I want Thibodeau to be the next coach. But Flip would be a great second option. We need a coach that is a solid offensive coach but an amazing defensive coach. Thibodeau fits that bill and could help develop our young players and make sure our incoming top 3 pick doesn't develop the bad habits of Jamison!
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#331 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:50 pm

doclinkin wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:bring ej back



Heh. As Tom Thibodeaux's offensive assistant.

If not for egos and the wierdness of it all that would be the best idea of all.
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#332 » by doclinkin » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:59 pm

The Flip rumors amount to the following:

Eddie had Flip in training camp to teach Zone defense (as a friendly gesture to a good-guy colleague -- like he usually does, keeping a guys name in the tops of people's minds). Same way he called in Lenny Wilkens a few years ago (IIRC) and Pete Carrill.

Ivan Carter being a Minneapolis kid held onto this fact, often reported the possibility of Flip as coach as if it were a strong probability.

Everyone else assumed beat guy Ivan Carter had the inside track on some info. Though followers of the team know Ivan was often the last guy to know any real inside nugget. (Having watched press conference feeds it always seems like Ernie was giving Ivan the bizness about something, gently mocking him).

Echochamber ensues. People hear it reported from this source or that, usually another news outlet. But when has Ernie let anything slip out that might affect his bargaining position? Coaches have agents too. I can't imagine GMEG would allow to slip that any one coach is their primary target, since that would necessarily ratchet up the signing price.

That said. No surprise if Flip was on the list. But I doubt he's the top ticket.

I expect they'd be more likely to try to land Tom Tippytoe, if that works out. Maybe even with an eye towards the retirement of Phil Jackson, flipping Gilbert for Kobe down the line. Eh, maybe not. But still. When you think about it the Wiz are a plum job, especially for a top defensive coach. Offensively these guys (the starters) can keep themselves organized, play with anyone.
Defensively whatever their talents, the teams habits on this end are awful and can easily be improved with slight tweaks. There are some raw materials here for defensive improvement. Plsu we get a high pick.

Personally, I'm still on a crusade. If we land an 'experienced' head coach, I want Rudy Tomjanovich. Best playoff win % of any coach available. Here. Two time champion. Rested, still in the game working as a scout. Only a few short years removed from his last top job, with only 2 sub-500 years in his career. (Both with absolutely horrible Houston teams).

And he's got the pipeline to HOF advisors at key positions. Knows how to coach both offense and D. Knows how to coach Bigs. Tough, old school, but respected by everybody. If we're going with a veteran, Rudy T is the best available.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#333 » by nate33 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:00 pm

fishercob wrote:Something just doesn't smell right about the flip rumors. Seems like classic Ernie mis-direction to me.

Me too.

A concern with TT would be the appearance of impropriety. If he comes back here now, some of the players may think it was a set-up job all along. The assumption might be that EG pushed EJ out because he wanted his guy, TT the whole time.

That said, I don't much care if the players think EJ was mistreated. Their job is to play basketball, not second-guess the team president in personnel decisions.

I'm not excited at all about Flip Saunders. It seems like more of the same to me. He's another players' coach who is a pretty good tactician but not enough of a disciplinarian with the vets. EG needs to swing for the fences with this pick. I want a successful assistant coach, not another retread head coach.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#334 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:01 pm

wizards-fan wrote:
fishercob wrote:My question is that if FLip's the guy, why didn't they just hire him right away? Wouldn't it stand to reason that if they wait until the summer to make the hire that their target(s) are otherwise disposed right now?


IIRC, it's almost always an assistant or someone from within the organization that is promoted. Bringing someone from outside (event 10-12 games into the season) is probably considered a excessively drastic move and is far too disruptive to the team. That guy would want all new assistants, new systems on offense and defense, and probably a few new players too. No chance of all that happening in-season.

If the goal is a first-time coach, TT is fine. But I believe the reports that the team wants a veteran coach to mesh with a largely veteran team. One who can potentially come in an immediately guide this team to the Eastern Conference Finals. That being said, I think Flip Saunders is far and away the most qualified candidate. Forget the bias you might have about him being "offensive-minded" or a "players coach" and "underachieving in the playoffs" ... just look up the entirety of his experience and accomplishments and compare them to Avery Johnson or Sam Mitchell. It's not even close! Look at his recent history -- his last four full seasons as head coach -- and consider if that's something we might want in DC.


Nice post, wizards-fan.

I think you're right about them waiting on hiring new assistants and disrupting the entire coaching staff. That said, FWIW I think it might have made more sense to fire EJ's assistants and keep him. Nothing really changed under Tapscott and the team struggled mightily. I don't see where not having EJ made things better. Blatche took a step or two forward but Javale took the same two back. But I digress ...

As for hiring Flip for his experience and qualifications and those meshing with a veteran team, I buy it. Saunders has credibility, is a proven winner, and has been a head coach for a long time. I like his winning percentages a lot.

Honestly, Flip does make a lot of sense and I think what could happen is he'll come in and win a ton of regular season games, get a higher seed in the playoffs, and eventually get to the conference finals.

If bad defense does the Wizards in like it did Detroit when Saunders coached there, by the time that happens somebody like Joerger or Blatt will probably be available.

I'm okay with Saunders as the coach. He'll be fine at least a couple years.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#335 » by mhd » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:08 pm

Look how badly Detroit has fallen off without Flip. Flip is my #1 choice. He won't be an idiot and refuse to play Haywood. Detroit insiders know Curry stinks. I remember I read a quote from an anomous player from Detroit who said (I'm paraphrasing) "Flip was a very good coach. We didn't buy into his defensive concepts, but you can tell they would have worked".
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#336 » by miller31time » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:15 pm

mhd wrote:Look how badly Detroit has fallen off without Flip. Flip is my #1 choice. He won't be an idiot and refuse to play Haywood. Detroit insiders know Curry stinks. I remember I read a quote from an anomous player from Detroit who said (I'm paraphrasing) "Flip was a very good coach. We didn't buy into his defensive concepts, but you can tell they would have worked".


They haven't really fallen. They've made really bad short-term moves and have been plagued with injury.

Remember, the Detroit Pistons started the season 4-0. Then they made the AI/Billups trade. Then Hamilton got injured. Then Sheed got injured.

The Detroit situation doesn't have much to do with coaching.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#337 » by wizards-fan » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:14 pm

In Minnesota, Flip was .500+ 7 out of 9 seasons. I think he learned to be a good regular-season coach there. Yeah he lost in the first round 7 times in a row ... but Eddie Jordan only did that 3 times and look how much casual fans love that guy! ;)

In Detroit, Flip came into a situation with a veteran team with high expectations and composed of occasional All-stars but no superstar, a bit similar to the Wizards. He won 64, 53, and 59 games and made the Eastern Conference Finals 3 straight seasons. Maybe he learned to be a better playoff coach there, I don't know. But you add in 03-04 and he's made the Conference Finals (1 West, 3 East) in the 4 most recent seasons that he coached 82 games. His winning % since 03-04 (including the season he was fired midway through) is 68%. If he were 20 years younger (he's 54) he'd be the hottest coaching ticket around based on his recent record.

He's got years in the CBA ... but also coached the All-Star game. He's coached guys who never sniffed the NBA, and some of the best players that ever lived. He even survived Latrell Sprewell. I think he can handle Gilbert.

Again, I think it all depends on what direction the Wiz want to go. If they share the opinion of the veteran players that the window is now, then I think they want a veteran coach. IMO, Flip is the most qualified candidate.

Edited to add: I would be willing to give his zone principle a shot as well. It strikes me as a bit unorthodox, but for this team it might be just the thing. The Wizards don't have great individual defenders, but what they do have is tremendous length, shotblocking, and active hands. A zone could work.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#338 » by wizards-fan » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:20 pm

doclinkin wrote:If we're going with a veteran, Rudy T is the best available.


Rudy T is done, at least as a coach.

"I love the game, I absolutely love it," he notes. "I love the preparation for games, I love the games themselves. But dealing with the stress -- just the travel alone -- would be too much after the things I've been through. Part of me would like to get that thing stirred up again, but I can't. I just can't do it."


http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may/27 ... sp-crowe27
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#339 » by doclinkin » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:50 pm

Yeah I've read that one. Just saying you never know, y'know? Never know. If he listened to an offer, then in the back of his mind he ain't entirely done. And if he took the job, then he ain't done, would be better than any other NBA-experienced coach available.

The interesting angle, he was the director of Int'l scouting for the gold-medal USA squad, so he'd even have insight to Europlayers coming into the league. Possible second-round draft and stash prospects in future years.

Just saying, I'd prefer to have a guy who has won something. Been on a championship squad as a key role-player or a coach. Knows what it takes.
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Re: Discussing Potential Coaches Thread 

Post#340 » by wizards-fan » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:21 am

I've got tons of respect for Rudy T. He's practically a sports hero in my mind for what he's done in the NBA. I just feel like he's moved on, retired. You read his words ... he's cleaned up his lifestyle, went vegetarian and quit smoking and drinking. He survived cancer, has his family and his scouting reports, and loves his life. Is he "available" in the sense that you could twist his arm to bring him back? His quote suggests that's possible, but it wouldn't be fair. He deserves his retirement. We should all be so lucky.

Saunders is a coaching lifer, yet still relatively young. He started at the bottom and worked his way up. I believe his career has been trending upward, with his most recent seasons being pretty darn successful. People are against him because his reputation is uninspiring, but I believe his record says he can get the job done. Avery Johnson has really only had 3 full seasons in the NBA. He's made the Finals and Conference Finals, but his last two teams were 67-win and 51-win teams that both lost in the 1st round. I haven't looked up all the history on those seasons, but I know Don Nelson outcoached him when his 8th-seeded Golden State and the Mavs met in the playoffs. I don't believe that Avery Johnson has any fewer question marks concerning his ability to coach a successful playoff team. Considering Saunders's longer resume and more player-friendly personality, I think he's the better choice.

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