What Should the Wizards Should Do with the 5th Pick?

[WizarDynasty]

after watching mcgee further, I do thinks its going to take a long time for him to develope his body to where he can maintain his post position? I think Thabeet at 7'3 is going to be way longer than even Javale in the measurement departments for shot blocking. I honestly don't see Javale ever building up his lower body and he isn't quick enough to beat people off the dribble. That' leaves Java's defense. I would take Thabeet's standing at 7'3 over Java. Java doesn't like to bang and we got enough of those players on team already. If we can get Thabeet or a talent like rubio by trading McGee, i think its helps in next two years. McGee is not helping us for at least another 3 years. The guy is so skinny that he is usually pulling up his shorts when he is running down the court. He just doesn't have alot of coordination when he is making his offensive moves in the post. Even Blatche ismore coordinated and they are nearly the same age.
OKC is perfect because they have a long time line for developing their players. We probably won't be able to afford Haywood and --our front court of Jamison and Caron are probably the worst defensively in the league and the situation is getting any better with those two and their history of knee problems. So I look forward to seeing Thabeet or Rubio on the roster starting next year. Both will have more of an impact on our wins and losses than Java for the next two years.

[WizarDynasty]

Go to those respective teams' boards and ask their teams if they would rather have Butler or their player...just do it. Then you can get even more evidence of just how much of a nitwit you are....

nitwit lmao....choosing between Josh Smith or Caron Butler as my starting small forward?
Let's see i post a trade of caron butler for josh smith on general trade board...just so everyone can see how...out of touch you are LOL.

[WizarDynasty]

Go to those respective teams' boards and ask their teams if they would rather have Butler or their player...just do it. Then you can get even more evidence of just how much of a nitwit you are....

nitwit lmao....choosing between Josh Smith or Caron Butler as my starting small forward?
Let's see i post a trade of caron butler for josh smith on general trade board...just so everyone can see how...out of touch you are LOL. So everyone can go the general trade board on realgm and see just how out touch people are of caron butler in this thread. Maybe they are right but it will be an interesting experiment.

[LyricalRico]

Since when is Josh Smith a good defender? He's a good weakside shot blocker, true. But man-on-man? Not really. And on offense, what can he do other than dunk? Inconsistent jumper, not a great ball handler, the list goes on. Yes he's tall, athletic, and has a big wingspan. But he's not all that skilled and he doesn't have a great IQ.

Hey, I've probably posted more Butler trade scenarios than anyone on this board and I don't consider the guy to be untouchable by any means. But Josh Smith is definitely at least a tier below Caron Butler. Easily.

[pancakes3]

What I've identified as the main area of contention between WizD and most posters is that WizD, you like to take the these biometrics to the grave. At some point you have to throw your hands up in the air and say wingspan be damned, this boy can play. This is most often most riotous in discussions of Caron Butler. You keep posting physical limitations of butler such as height, reach, etc. and others retaliate with game-resulting stats such as PERs, +/-'s and splits. Nobody can argue that Butler is undersized and doesn't have an albatross's span, but you can't really argue that Butler is inept as a player and not a top 10 sf.

1. Lebron James, 2. Paul Pierce, 3. Hedo Turkoglu 4. Ron Artest 5. Carmelo Anthony 6. Danny Granger 7. Kevin Durant 8. John Salmons 9. Andre Iguodala 10. Richard Jefferson 11. Luol Deng 12. Josh Smith 13. Rashard Lewis 14. Vince Carter --not mention Stephen Jackson, Tayshaun Prince, Josh Howard, Joe Johnson, Gerald Wallace, Shane Battier, and Rudy Gay. All players who are better defenders than Butler.
top 10 s/f is pretty homer talk...and everyone in the league can play or they wouldn't have been drafted and signed for millions of dollars. Nearly all of these players i would want on my team starting the s/f spot over Butler...maybe not Wallace....but Josh Smith a better all around player at the s/f spot versus Caron Butler? Is Caron Butler a better offensive player than Richard Jefferson or Vince Carter? Almost all of the players i mentioned are better defenders than Butler on the defensive side..except maybe Joe Johnson and Richard Jefferson but Joe Johnson and Jefferson score similiar points at shoot better 3pt percentage. Then we mention that Butler is 6'5 w/o shoes and unathletic and things should really start to blow up.

Hedo Turkoglu - yes yes... a 6'10 player who plays even less in the post than "absurdly short 6'5 w/o shoes" Butler, gets less rebounds than "absurdly short 6'5 stubby armed" butler, and shoots a lower percentage than "offensively overrated" butler is a better sf... oh wait. he's not.
posting.php?mode=quote&f=35&p=19578118
John Salmons - a 6'9 player who's never grabbed more than 4 boards a game, scoring 8.8 ppg for his career is obviously a better sf than butler because he's taller. negative.

Richard Jefferson - Pretty comparable to Caron - except that he's pulling down 2 less boards a game. Man, Butler is outrebounding all these taller, more athletic players.

Stephen Jackson - Another more athletic sf that just can't seem to put up the 6rpg that Butler is. Oh yeah, and he's shooting an iverson-esque .400 from the field. He'd be stellar as a baseball player.

Vince Carter/Joe Johnson - If you hate the perimeter play of Butler, i'm not sure how you could offer these two as "better players" in the "frontcourt". Both are notorious shooting guards and are half the defender that Butler is in the post. They also cost 2x as much.

Prince/Battier - These guys are just too horrid on offense to matter. BTW, as good as their on-the-ball defense may be, they're not much for boxing out. Both are outrebounded by Butler.

Josh Smith - the guy is a PF. you might as well as have added on boozer, millsap, maxiel, and jason thompson to this list.

This pares the list of SF to:
Lebron, Pierce, Artest, 'Melo, Granger, Durant, Iggy, Deng, and Josh Howard. It's difficult to rank Butler between Deng, Artest, and Josh Howard. What one player gives up in rebounding, another gives up in playmaking. Butler is the 2nd highest in rebounding and top assist man in the group. According to PER, Butler is better than all of them, but I wouldn't say that if you factor in defense. The point is, Butler is a damn good sf, and on the cheap also. This goes beyond physical ability and edges towards basketball ability. Sometimes the shorter guy with stubbier arms can just play basketball. He shouldn't but he does.

I think i liked it better when you were bashing Jamison.

[hands11]

Just got a twitter from bullets forever…he says the rumor about Mcgee is sooo false and the wiz think he can be a multiple all star. They also hate James Harden who they saw lacks athleticism, ball handling and explosiveness. If we don’t trade the pick..hello Hill or Curry or Evans!

Harden is a basketball player period. This is disappointing

Really. So we aren't trading McGee

This place has become a little comical over the years. Just spagetti on the walls.

McGee is going no where. That should have never even been a question. Just look at the obvious. Consider our GM and his history. While the past is no gaurentee of the future, it's usually a pretty good indicator to follow.

Actually, he and Haywood are probably two of the last players that would get moved. While a great post player alone doesn't take you to the top these days, it is a great place to start in building a great team. Most great teams have the post covered and a great SG/SF type.

While this team isn't set up with an obvious winning line up, they do have something pretty interesting and solid going on. They are definatly a playoff team but more likely then that, a 2nd round team with could be good enough with some luck to make it to the 3rd round.

But If you look at the finals, 3 of the top teams have an outstanding SG/SF player. This is the most obvious design for a winner. This is the MJ design. I pointed this out when we were debating the Kobe leaving LA and should we give up GA in a package for him. That was a no brainer. I couldn't believe there was even a debate over it. Not only should you put GA on the table for that but you could toss in AJ with him and it still would have made sense.

So three of the top remaining teams have Kobe, LeTravel and Melo. The 4th team has a unique front court of Turk and R Lewis and that team has Howard in the post.

But the reality is there aren't of ton of these types of players in the league. That kind of player that can do it all. They are seasoned, strong, can jump, quick, rebound, pass, dribble, defend, shoot, block, dunk, and they are clutch. And even of this talent, it wasn't overnight that they got this good. Kobe was good early but he had Shaq. There are a few other names that fix this catagory. You have Wade and PP. So this is the player you want to ultimately find. In our design, we are counting GA as that player only he isn't as big, doesn't defend as well, etc. So we have a combo of players that get us closer to having that one player.

So short of trading any combo of GA, CB or AJ or any of these players, you have to do something more like Orlando or find the next Melo who seems to be coming into his own. It's actually amazing that Kobe is battling with Melo because Melo is so much stronger then Kobe. The LA vs Denver series is a classic.

So short of finding that player, you just enjoy your team being a deep playoff team until you can pull a magic trade or find that magic player. We are in the Orlando design which is also the SA or Detriot design.

But this is why McGee is going no where. His - like Blatche - is a tall young man with lots of talent only in the case of McGee, he isn't going to be the head case Blatche was. He is going to get there sooner and go farther once he does. Plus he can jump out of the gym. He is part of our future solid post play in our balanced attack.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

THE REASON I'M ALL OVER GRUNFELD RIGHT NOW is the talk about (more of the same) Jordan Hill being his pick, along with him (reportedly) trying to get Rubio or Thabeet at the expense of McGee and the pick.

CCJ - why are you worried about the "talk" about what EG is going to do in the draft? When it comes to the draft or trades, when does Ernie ever really let anything slip about what he's going to do? He just seems like a guy who keeps things close to the vest and any rumors that we hear about who he likes or dislikes are just that, rumors.

Now I do agree with you wholeheartedly about him overpaying for a number of players although I give him a pass for some of the signings due to Pollins influence (i.e. Thomas, Jamison, etc.), but I'm not too concerned about anything in the press regarding the Wizards because I just see it as disinformation.....

Okay, I see yours and the points of fisher and dobrojim: Don't crucify Ernie over hearsay. I apologize for that. They're just rumors (McGee+5 being traded). It's wrong to act on rumors. I was wrong.

I sure do hope it is the media dis-informing folks.

[WizarDynasty]

Just got a twitter from bullets forever…he says the rumor about Mcgee is sooo false and the wiz think he can be a multiple all star. They also hate James Harden who they saw lacks athleticism, ball handling and explosiveness. If we don’t trade the pick..hello Hill or Curry or Evans!

Harden is a basketball player period. This is disappointing

Really. So we aren't trading McGee

This place has become a little comical over the years. Just spagetti on the walls.

McGee is going no where. That should have never even been a question. Just look at the obvious. Consider our GM and his history. While the past is no gaurentee of the future, it's usually a pretty good indicator to follow.

Actually, he and Haywood are probably two of the last players that would get moved. While a great post player alone doesn't take you to the top these days, it is a great place to start in building a great team. Most great teams have the post covered and a great SG/SF type.

While this team isn't set up with an obvious winning line up, they do have something pretty interesting and solid going on. They are definatly a playoff team but more likely then that, a 2nd round team with could be good enough with some luck to make it to the 3rd round.

But If you look at the finals, 3 of the top teams have an outstanding SG/SF player. This is the most obvious design for a winner. This is the MJ design. I pointed this out when we were debating the Kobe leaving LA and should we give up GA in a package for him. That was a no brainer. I couldn't believe there was even a debate over it. Not only should you put GA on the table for that but you could toss in AJ with him and it still would have made sense.

So three of the top remaining teams have Kobe, LeTravel and Melo. The 4th team has a unique front court of Turk and R Lewis and that team has Howard in the post.

But the reality is there aren't of ton of these types of players in the league. That kind of player that can do it all. They are seasoned, strong, can jump, quick, rebound, pass, dribble, defend, shoot, block, dunk, and they are clutch. And even of this talent, it wasn't overnight that they got this good. Kobe was good early but he had Shaq. There are a few other names that fix this catagory. You have Wade and PP. So this is the player you want to ultimately find. In our design, we are counting GA as that player only he isn't as big, doesn't defend as well, etc. So we have a combo of players that get us closer to having that one player.

So short of trading any combo of GA, CB or AJ or any of these players, you have to do something more like Orlando or find the next Melo who seems to be coming into his own. It's actually amazing that Kobe is battling with Melo because Melo is so much stronger then Kobe. The LA vs Denver series is a classic.

So short of finding that player, you just enjoy your team being a deep playoff team until you can pull a magic trade or find that magic player. We are in the Orlando design which is also the SA or Detriot design.

But this is why McGee is going no where. His - like Blatche - is a tall young man with lots of talent only in the case of McGee, he isn't going to be the head case Blatche was. He is going to get there sooner and go farther once he does. Plus he can jump out of the gym. He is part of our future solid post play in our balanced attack.

outstanding post!!! thumbs up!

[barelyawake]

deleted

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The McGee/Rubio trade discussions could be an indicator of the true-nature of Gilbert's knee surgery recovery. Perhaps the only way for Ernie to save-face after over-paying for what could be a permanently injured franchise player, would be to bring in what could be a new franchise player through the draft.

If I could say again and again DO NOT SIGN AN INJURED PLAYER WHO'S OPTED OUT BEFORE HE'S HEALTHY why couldn't Grunfeld?

He'll never save face on that one as far as I'm concerned.

Grunfeld should have waited on resigning Jamison, and he should have tried to get Gil for $95-105 Mil. If Gil had balked at that, if I were a GM I would have let both him and Jamison waik. (But I would have tried to retain Jamison even if Gil left).

Business is all I would have been about. I'd have told Gil as great as he is, his body didn't hold up the last 2 seasons, and IMO a real loyal guy wouldn't have come back just in time to hurt the team in the playoffs they made without him; ONLY to opt out and demand more money for himself and Jamison.

I recall arguing with/depressing a lot of you guys but I told you guys Gil's body was an injury risk and that I thought it was EXTREMELY FOOLISH to give an injured player that many years and that much money.

You guys think/thought I am/was a Gilbert hater. Nothing could be further from the truth. He did the right thing to get security for him and his family.

I say the guys over 50 got played. If I were a GM no way in the world they'd have ended up in this situation.

LAST THING TO ADD THAT MIGHT EXCUSE ERNIE IN MY EYES: Maybe Pollin did an Al Davis and meddled in Grunfeld's business. Offering 127Mil from the start to Gilbert might have been Pollin's idea.

[DaRealHibachi]

deleted

lol

[eltacoman]

Gerald Wallace is a ready SG / SF good Defensive Vet we need maybe he could be that missing link we need .... Do yall think MJ will go for

5th pick = Jordan Hill
Mike James
DeShawn Stevenson
for
Gerald Wallace

[eltacoman]

Gerald Wallace is a ready SG / SF good Defensive Vet we need maybe he could be that missing link we need .... Do yall think MJ will go for

5th pick = Jordan Hill
Mike James
DeShawn Stevenson
for
Gerald Wallace

then we could upgrage our backup PG

32 pick
2010 1st
Javaris Crittenton
Darius Songaila
for
Leandro Barbosa

Gilbert - Barbosa - Dee Brown
Gerald - Young - Dmac
Caron - Dmac - Jamison
Jamison - Blatch - Pesh
Wood - Mcgee - Etan

maybe we could get some vets to sign up for a chance to win a ring

[FreeBalling]

Gerald Wallace is a ready SG / SF good Defensive Vet we need maybe he could be that missing link we need .... Do yall think MJ will go for

5th pick = Jordan Hill
Mike James
DeShawn Stevenson
for
Gerald Wallace

For real?

Mike James, great passer. I wish he'd shoot more. Great stroke.

DS with his superior Def and long range bombs.

Lets not forget he likes to smell his fingers after a big shot or down by 25, I bet he's thinking, this one is a keeper.

I think the Bobcats should throw in the 2nd round pick and then it's a go by me.

[doclinkin]

Okay, I see yours and the points of fisher and dobrojim: Don't crucify Ernie over hearsay. I apologize for that. They're just rumors (McGee+5 being traded). It's wrong to act on rumors. I was wrong.

I sure do hope it is the media dis-informing folks.

Anything reported by Chad Ford has to be considered as total lies this time of year. Jon G gave the story some credibility, but still once Chad reported it there's a sudden stink of falsehood.

[doclinkin]

deleted

lol

Dang. I missed it. Bet it was delightfully mean-spirited.

[FreeBalling]

deleted

lol

Dang. I missed it. Bet it was delightfully mean-spirited.

How come no red pen like my man TheOutLaw bad MOD.

[miller31time]

Dang. I missed it. Bet it was delightfully mean-spirited.

How come no red pen like my man TheOutLaw bad MOD.

BA deleted the post himself.

You don't have to worry about me and my red pen.



(And no, doc, it was not a mean-spirited post - quite the opposite)

[doclinkin]

Too bad. I suppose it's too early in the offseason for bloody knuckles and noses.

[Ji]

I remember in January, there were a ton of Jordan Hill fans even some who thought he was a better PF than Griffen...


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009 ... our-090521