Gil vs. Javaris (Gun Incident)

[MagicFanMM]

I love Gilbert, alway's have.. How likely is it that he will be suspended and for how long? Thanks..

[queridiculo]

I love Gilbert, alway's have.. How likely is it that he will be suspended and for how long? Thanks..

Your guess is as good as mine. On the surface I don't see how this is any worse than the trouble Stephen Jackson has gotten into.

My biggest fear is that Stern will end up more concerned with the perception of the incident than the actual facts of what went down. I'm afraid that he'll hand out a double digit suspension to make an example out of Arenas.

[hands11]

How different really is Gils level of immaturity from that we saw from Blatche.

Up until now you can put most of what is Gil immunity into the mostly harmless category. He never really did anything that made him have to be accountable or that challenged him to really change.

He blogged and predicted 50 pts against teams. He over worked and isolate himself on a recovery plan that failed. He shot jacked and acted the insecure egomaniac. But nothing that was at this level.

I think Gil may end up being a tougher nut to crack then Blatche was. Blatche doesn't have all of Gils fame and money. He was also younger. But Blatche seems to have to have had the light bulb go on.

Gil is more in the AI category. So talented and rich that it's harder for them to listen, learn and own up because they have so much going for them. I hope Gil takes advantage of this situation and really learns something from it. Kobe had to have something really bad happy to him to make him finally wake up.

So for Gils sake, I hope he gets punished. I think the 2 years off from the game made him appreciate it more but he still doesn't understand how to follow a team plan. He doesn't get that he is not bigger then the team or the game. He doesn't get where that line is between being somewhat unique and needed to follow the guidelines of what works to be a winning player on a winning team.

In the long run it may serve him better if he has to pay a price for what he did then if he gets off to easy.

[lupin]

Stephen Jackson got 7 games for firing a gun outside a nightclub. I have a hard time believing that Arenas would get a rest-of-the-season suspension (unless jail time is involved).

Btw, I read somewhere (the Post probably) that one of the reasons Stern and/or the Wiz might not have taken any action at this stage is that the CBA precludes a player for being fined and suspended twice for the same 'crime' (sounds like Double Jeopardy). So, they're waiting to see what the real crime was before acting. Seems reasonable to me. Might not wait for a court case to play out, but would probably wait for at least an indictment.

[LyricalRico]

Btw, I read somewhere (the Post probably) that one of the reasons Stern and/or the Wiz might not have taken any action at this stage is that the CBA precludes a player for being fined and suspended twice for the same 'crime' (sounds like Double Jeopardy). So, they're waiting to see what the real crime was before acting. Seems reasonable to me. Might not wait for a court case to play out, but would probably wait for at least an indictment.

Are you saying that a player can't be suspended by the team, and then also be subsequently suspended by the league? In other words, if the Wiz suspended him right now and he came back in a week, the league wouldn't then be able to give him another suspension based on the same incident?

[Tirion]

I love Gilbert, alway's have.. How likely is it that he will be suspended and for how long? Thanks..

Your guess is as good as mine. On the surface I don't see how this is any worse than the trouble Stephen Jackson has gotten into.

Sjax fired shots in the air:

a) in self-defense (other dude tried to run him over with a car!);
b) nowhere near the NBA property;
c) in a state were carrying of handguns is allowed.

This two cases aren't really similar at all, except for the parts "gun" and "NBA player".

[fishercob]

Your guess is as good as mine. On the surface I don't see how this is any worse than the trouble Stephen Jackson has gotten into.

Sjax fired shots in the air:

a) in self-defense (other dude tried to run him over with a car!);
b) nowhere near the NBA property;
c) in a state were carrying of handguns is allowed.

This two cases aren't really similar at all, except for the parts "gun" and "NBA player".

It's interesting. On face value, Jackson's crime is much more serious -- actually firing five shots in the air, and breaking laws while doing it.

But I think Tirion has a point in that Gil did two things --broke District law(s) by having handguns in the city AND broke league rule for having guns on "league premises." So he's going to get suspended for that.

Gil broke the law. I don't see him having committed any serious moral wrongs though. It's tough to listen to all the moral soapboxing when Gil's colleagues are adulterers, sexual assaulters, etc.

[WizStorm]

It will be interesting to see if Stern will break the "12 game" barrier, where the player will then have the right to file a grievance and an independent arbitrator to hear the case and rule on whether the length of the suspension is just. This should help in peeling off the sensationalism of this case and to ensure that Gilbert doesn't receive a suspension out of line with similar incidents.

[Too Late Crew]

It will be interesting to see if Stern will break the "12 game" barrier, where the player will then have the right to file a grievance and an independent arbitrator to hear the case and rule on whether the length of the suspension is just. This should help in peeling off the sensationalism of this case and to ensure that Gilbert doesn't receive a suspension out of line with similar incidents.

NBA code of conduct explicitly states that section 9 (gun) violations are punishable by a 50K fine and an INDIFINITE suspension at the commish discretion.

Gilbert admits that he broke section 9. They really have no choice but to suspend him. If there truly is concern over some "12 game rule" there is no reason why if there were 3 guns that belonged to Gilbert that he couldn't be suspended say 11 games per gun for a total of 33 games.

Its not about sensationalism. Gilbert didn't do something ambiguous. People keep talking about JAX and his suspension. The rules dicatate the minimum suspension for a felony. There is no NBA rule that specifically says "You cannot shoot a gun outside a nightclub" (yes I know its stupid but the fact is that JAX never signed anything that said he would not carry a gun outside NBA business).

Gilbert broke an explicit rule he agreed to. No guns in the arena. There is no grey area. He did exactly what the rules said you can't. You must be punished.

Its guns in the same arena where parents bring their kids for games. This is much worse than Vin Baker being a drunk or JAX shooting outside a nighclub. Its up there with Refs fixing games. You don't **it where you eat. The fact this happened on NBA property makes this a huge issue and as such the punishment will have to mirror the magnitude of the issue.

Oh and he already has a firearm charge in California so this is a repeat offense. His "I didn't know any better" defense just won't fly.

[WizStorm]

It will be interesting to see if Stern will break the "12 game" barrier, where the player will then have the right to file a grievance and an independent arbitrator to hear the case and rule on whether the length of the suspension is just. This should help in peeling off the sensationalism of this case and to ensure that Gilbert doesn't receive a suspension out of line with similar incidents.

NBA code of conduct explicitly states that section 9 (gun) violations are punishable by a 50K fine and an INDIFINITE suspension at the commish discretion.

Gilbert admits that he broke section 9. They really have no choice but to suspend him. If there truly is concern over some "12 game rule" there is no reason why if there were 3 guns that belonged to Gilbert that he couldn't be suspended say 11 games per gun for a total of 33 games.

Its not about sensationalism. Gilbert didn't do something ambiguous. People keep talking about JAX and his suspension. The rules dicatate the minimum suspension for a felony. There is no NBA rule that specifically says "You cannot shoot a gun outside a nightclub" (yes I know its stupid but the fact is that JAX never signed anything that said he would not carry a gun outside NBA business).

Gilbert broke an explicit rule he agreed to. No guns in the arena. There is no grey area. He did exactly what the rules said you can't. You must be punished.

Its guns in the same arena where parents bring their kids for games. This is much worse than Vin Baker being a drunk or JAX shooting outside a nighclub. Its up there with Refs fixing games. You don't **it where you eat. The fact this happened on NBA property makes this a huge issue and as such the punishment will have to mirror the magnitude of the issue.

Oh and he already has a firearm charge in California so this is a repeat offense. His "I didn't know any better" defense just won't fly.

What won't fly is what I bolded above. That's like saying Artest could've been suspended a year for each punch he threw. Speaking of that incident, I believe that was the last time arbitration was used, where Jermaine O'Neal (and his lawyers) convinced a federal judge to decrease the # of games from 25 down to 15.

Nonetheless, this should be real interesting to see what punishment is attempted in this case. The mandated minimum 10 game suspension is only for "violent" felony convictions. And since there hasn't been any evidence presented as yet for any act of violence or intended malice in this case, this really becomes more of a judgement call and what precedent to set for having unloaded guns on NBA team property. What is really interesting in this case is that the law in most cities, that would be legal (of course, the gun would have to be licensed/registered in that city).

[WizStorm]

I love the "kid" angle ... it's like that character from the Simpsons saying "won't somebody PLEASE think of the children". Like someone was going to sneak the correct ammunition into the Verizon center, get past security, sneak undetected into the Wizards locker room, break into Gil's locker, load the weapon and run onto the court during a game and shoot the place up.

Seems like there are much more dangerous and easier alternatives to put fans (and their kids) in danger, like waiting on the outside at the entrance to the Arena for instance.

[doclinkin]

It will be interesting to see if Stern will break the "12 game" barrier, where the player will then have the right to file a grievance and an independent arbitrator to hear the case and rule on whether the length of the suspension is just. This should help in peeling off the sensationalism of this case and to ensure that Gilbert doesn't receive a suspension out of line with similar incidents.

NBA code of conduct explicitly states that section 9 (gun) violations are punishable by a 50K fine and an INDIFINITE suspension at the commish discretion.

Gilbert admits that he broke section 9. They really have no choice but to suspend him. If there truly is concern over some "12 game rule" there is no reason why if there were 3 guns that belonged to Gilbert that he couldn't be suspended say 11 games per gun for a total of 33 games.

Never gonna happen. After all the froth and fervor by such luminaries as Al Sharpton (...) David Stern will do what David Stern usually does: decide for himself. But he has to balance a few things here, in part what he's looking to do is minimize an appearance of thuggery, the lesser the result in court the better the result for Sr Stern. After a canvas of a few anecdotal cases of simple possession in DC (resulting in fines, community service & probation) I can't see that Gil will be stung much by the legal aspect. In this respect it's in Mr Stern's best interest to downplay the hullballoo. Minimal result in court does best for Mr Stern.


Understand Gilbert is among the top 10 all-star votegetters in the East, top 20 leaguewide. He is still a remarkable and engaging player with many fans around the league, with among the highest name recognition. It doesn't benefit the league to cast him as a thug and not the loveable goofball that is his public persona.

It is in League best interest to both minimize the incident while still making clear offenses of this kind will not be tolerated. I suspect we'll see statements to snuff the Mexican standoff angle of the reporting: this was a prank, nobody was in any danger, etc -- but the League office wants to make clear that they find nothing funny in any of this and the NBA will come down hard on any and every incidence of gun possession in their facilities. And so forth.

Then they'll slap Gil with an unchallengeable Ten Game suspension. No way does Mr Stern want the issue dragged out longer by virtue of Player Association appeals etc. An unusually sober Gil will hold a press conference attempting an act of contrition, then appeal to all to accept his apology, he was goofing on a friend, never expects to be taken seriously in anything, but realizes now how stupid it was. He'll accept his suspension, and ask for fan forgiveness etc. and promises to make his absence up to them with his play on court following the ban.

All but the most grumbling and disgruntled antifans will be appeased and satisfied. Life goes on.

[Silvie Lysandra]

All but the most grumbling and disgruntled antifans will be appeased and satisfied. Life goes on.

You mean 80% of non-Wizards-fan RealGM posters?

teeheehee

Cheap shot, I know, but imo deserved.

[TheSecretWeapon]

I agree completely with doc's analysis.

[Dat2U]

As a guy that's hired a former head of the US attorney's office to represent me, I can say this is a great move for Gil and gives him the best chance going forward. In my situation, I did something incredibly stupid 8 years ago and was looking at serious time in jail. It was only b/c i had a lawyer that was good friends with and knew everyone in the US attorney's office that I was able to avoid a potential 15 year sentence and enter the 1st offenders program and walk out without anything on my record. I spent about 5 years paying for my lawyer but man, was it worth it.

A wise and connected lawyer has the ability to make a huge difference in the outcome of the case.

do i dare ask?

8 years ago? Hmmm...

It's obvious he was under the influence of KFB at the time (as were the rest of us). 20/20 hindsight that ****'ll make any sane person crazy and do something out of character.

Jokes aside, I'm happy it all worked out for you, Dat2U.

I probably opened a can of worms by mentioning it so I might as well share. I got far too intoxicated one night, lost control and started acting a fool. Bottom line, I got into a fight with 3 cops outside a strip club on M St. NW and faced a number of potential felonies. Had a court appointed attorney and she couldn't get anything done and it was looking real real bad for me. Had a friend of a friend who knew this high powered attorney and former prosecutor and he made one call to his old buddy in the DC prosecutor's office and got the charges reduced to misdeameanors and eventually got those expunged through me doing community service. He cost me about half my yearly salary but hell, it was more than worth it.

I don't think Gil is gonna be as blessed as I was on that one. This is one time were being a celeb is working against him.

[dobrojim]

Your guess is as good as mine. On the surface I don't see how this is any worse than the trouble Stephen Jackson has gotten into.

Sjax fired shots in the air:

a) in self-defense (other dude tried to run him over with a car!);
b) nowhere near the NBA property;
c) in a state were carrying of handguns is allowed.

This two cases aren't really similar at all, except for the parts "gun" and "NBA player".

It's interesting. On face value, Jackson's crime is much more serious -- actually firing five shots in the air, and breaking laws while doing it.

But I think Tirion has a point in that Gil did two things --broke District law(s) by having handguns in the city AND broke league rule for having guns on "league premises." So he's going to get suspended for that.

Gil broke the law. I don't see him having committed any serious moral wrongs though. It's tough to listen to all the moral soapboxing when Gil's colleagues are adulterers, sexual assaulters, etc.

Interesting to read the %ages of folks actually charged and convicted and having to
do time for violations of DC's handgun laws. It was in the game article in the Post
this morning so rather than misquote, suggest that folks look there. It's possible
that he may not even get charged. It happens.

I like your (fish) philosophy on Sharpton. He certainly can be and often is
a gaping and enlarged (fill in the blank).

[dobrojim]

I love the "kid" angle ... it's like that character from the Simpsons saying "won't somebody PLEASE think of the children". Like someone was going to sneak the correct ammunition into the Verizon center, get past security, sneak undetected into the Wizards locker room, break into Gil's locker, load the weapon and run onto the court during a game and shoot the place up.

Seems like there are much more dangerous and easier alternatives to put fans (and their kids) in danger, like waiting on the outside at the entrance to the Arena for instance.

good point

but it's still true that he committed technical violations of both league
rules and DC laws. A whole range of outcomes is completely within the
realm of possibility.

[dobrojim]

It will be interesting to see if Stern will break the "12 game" barrier, where the player will then have the right to file a grievance and an independent arbitrator to hear the case and rule on whether the length of the suspension is just. This should help in peeling off the sensationalism of this case and to ensure that Gilbert doesn't receive a suspension out of line with similar incidents.

NBA code of conduct explicitly states that section 9 (gun) violations are punishable by a 50K fine and an INDIFINITE suspension at the commish discretion.

Gilbert admits that he broke section 9. They really have no choice but to suspend him. If there truly is concern over some "12 game rule" there is no reason why if there were 3 guns that belonged to Gilbert that he couldn't be suspended say 11 games per gun for a total of 33 games.

Never gonna happen. After all the froth and fervor by such luminaries as Al Sharpton (...) David Stern will do what David Stern usually does: decide for himself. But he has to balance a few things here, in part what he's looking to do is minimize an appearance of thuggery, the lesser the result in court the better the result for Sr Stern. After a canvas of a few anecdotal cases of simple possession in DC (resulting in fines, community service & probation) I can't see that Gil will be stung much by the legal aspect. In this respect it's in Mr Stern's best interest to downplay the hullballoo. Minimal result in court does best for Mr Stern.


Understand Gilbert is among the top 10 all-star votegetters in the East, top 20 leaguewide. He is still a remarkable and engaging player with many fans around the league, with among the highest name recognition. It doesn't benefit the league to cast him as a thug and not the loveable goofball that is his public persona.

It is in League best interest to both minimize the incident while still making clear offenses of this kind will not be tolerated. I suspect we'll see statements to snuff the Mexican standoff angle of the reporting: this was a prank, nobody was in any danger, etc -- but the League office wants to make clear that they find nothing funny in any of this and the NBA will come down hard on any and every incidence of gun possession in their facilities. And so forth.

Then they'll slap Gil with an unchallengeable Ten Game suspension. No way does Mr Stern want the issue dragged out longer by virtue of Player Association appeals etc. An unusually sober Gil will hold a press conference attempting an act of contrition, then appeal to all to accept his apology, he was goofing on a friend, never expects to be taken seriously in anything, but realizes now how stupid it was. He'll accept his suspension, and ask for fan forgiveness etc. and promises to make his absence up to them with his play on court following the ban.

All but the most grumbling and disgruntled antifans will be appeased and satisfied. Life goes on.

right on Doc

[WizStorm]

I love the "kid" angle ... it's like that character from the Simpsons saying "won't somebody PLEASE think of the children". Like someone was going to sneak the correct ammunition into the Verizon center, get past security, sneak undetected into the Wizards locker room, break into Gil's locker, load the weapon and run onto the court during a game and shoot the place up.

Seems like there are much more dangerous and easier alternatives to put fans (and their kids) in danger, like waiting on the outside at the entrance to the Arena for instance.

good point

but it's still true that he committed technical violations of both league
rules and DC laws. A whole range of outcomes is completely within the
realm of possibility.

Definitely not arguing Gil will or should get off scot-free with the league or the DC authorities. But there does come a point where intent and actual harm to society are being grossly overstated in the case against Gil. I think 10 game suspension and probation/community service would be adequate in this case.

[bullitz]

Interesting legal perspective on the Arenas case here: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1.

Registration is free. In sum: this case could force the hand of the Supreme Court that affirmed the 2nd Amendment as a right of citizens to bear arms in the Heller case. The article predicts a light sentence in light of the facts of the case case and the mere fact that "crossing a bridge" turns a non-offense into a felony. I'll pre-empt the argument of "lots of things are legal in one state yet illegal in another." This is America founded upon gun culture (organized militias played a huge role in this nations independence). It's not "them dang athletes" and rappers that participate in a gun culture, it's the entire nation. It is what it is. To single out athletes or rappers or any sub-culture is ignorant, foolish, and hints at racism. Not trying to go there but I call it like I see it. It has roots in the 19th and early 20th century when blacks weren't allowed to carry guns because of fear of insurrection. The outrage over athletes carrying guns is ridiculous. There are far more "gun clubs" that engage in much more perilous behavior that deserve true outrage.