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AFM wrote:Not sure what Deni fans really want. And I'm not singling you out badinage, its unclear what you meant tbh, but ultimately it's up to Deni to be more aggressive. It's not Kuz or Poole's fault that Deni is perpetually gunshy.

Deni hasn't been gunshy this season. He certainly was his first 3 seasons but this season he attacks when he gets the chance.

Sometimes he drives and then passes to open shooters or cutters but I don't see that as gunshy.

Really missed Bagley... but probably no way to overcome Poole's stinker.

tontoz wrote:

AFM wrote:Not sure what Deni fans really want. And I'm not singling you out badinage, its unclear what you meant tbh, but ultimately it's up to Deni to be more aggressive. It's not Kuz or Poole's fault that Deni is perpetually gunshy.

Deni hasn't been gunshy this season. He certainly was his first 3 seasons but this season he attacks when he gets the chance.

Sometimes he drives and then passes to open shooters or cutters but I don't see that as gunshy.

If gunshy is proxy for not being a chucker, I'm cool with it.

nate33 wrote:

RinseRepeat wrote:

NatP4 wrote:Why the hell did Johnny Davis only play 2 minutes? What is this team doing?

this is why certain franchises like us are perpetually frozen in mediocrity. They prioritize building trade value of their veterans, despite trades actually being pretty rare in the NBA, over developing young players. To me, if you're going to shamelessly tank, might as well play the young guys since it should be treated like a fact-finding mission. Can they play or not. We already have our answer with the vets. And any trade value vets have is already pretty well-established at this point so showcasing them really doesn't make much sense.

Spare me. Davis practices with the team. They know damn well what Davis can and can't do. They won't play him because he can't shoot. He is shooting 24% from 3 in his NBA career, and just 10% from 3 in the freaking G-League. A defense with any kind of scouting report will cheat off of him to protect the paint, making it very difficult for his teammates to score. While he is a competent ball handler and defender, he is not so overwhelmingly good at either of these functions that the team can afford to endure his horrific impact on spacing. It would be one thing if he was an Ausar Thompson type of rebounding/defending menace, but he isn't. He is just a guy on defense.

Yeah but if that's the way the coaching staff feels, why even play him? He was 1-1 in his two minutes of play, and was trying out there, why can't you find a way to give him a couple more minutes of Poole's minutes, or Shamets, or Kisperts? Alone they could have given him 7-9 minutes from Poole. Shamet also has absolutely no future on this team, and let's face it, there's no point of showcasing him at this juncture because he's a known commodity. Just don't get wasting so many developmental minutes in a season we are tanking the **** out of.

"Why even play him?" does see like a more reasoned response to what he's shown so far in his pro career than "Why can't you find a way to give him more time?"

We picked up his option and he's shown pretty close to nothing. When we can, we should let him walk unless something changes.

CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:

nate33 wrote:

RinseRepeat wrote:
this is why certain franchises like us are perpetually frozen in mediocrity. They prioritize building trade value of their veterans, despite trades actually being pretty rare in the NBA, over developing young players. To me, if you're going to shamelessly tank, might as well play the young guys since it should be treated like a fact-finding mission. Can they play or not. We already have our answer with the vets. And any trade value vets have is already pretty well-established at this point so showcasing them really doesn't make much sense.

Spare me. Davis practices with the team. They know damn well what Davis can and can't do. They won't play him because he can't shoot. He is shooting 24% from 3 in his NBA career, and just 10% from 3 in the freaking G-League. A defense with any kind of scouting report will cheat off of him to protect the paint, making it very difficult for his teammates to score. While he is a competent ball handler and defender, he is not so overwhelmingly good at either of these functions that the team can afford to endure his horrific impact on spacing. It would be one thing if he was an Ausar Thompson type of rebounding/defending menace, but he isn't. He is just a guy on defense.

Yeah but if that's the way the coaching staff feels, why even play him? He was 1-1 in his two minutes of play, and was trying out there, why can't you find a way to give him a couple more minutes of Poole's minutes, or Shamets, or Kisperts? Alone they could have given him 7-9 minutes from Poole. Shamet also has absolutely no future on this team, and let's face it, there's no point of showcasing him at this juncture because he's a known commodity. Just don't get wasting so many developmental minutes in a season we are tanking the **** out of.

You still have to beat out the vets in front of you. Bilal easily passes the eye test. Davis has pretty much looked like crap since he got to the league. When he’s not even showing out in the G league, then what’s the point in developing him? He’s going to be at best a 4th/5th guard type who can’t shoot. I doubt he’s in the league after next year

Go check his G league stats. I posted them in the other thread. They're actually horrific. He's done.

mhd wrote:

CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:

nate33 wrote:
Spare me. Davis practices with the team. They know damn well what Davis can and can't do. They won't play him because he can't shoot. He is shooting 24% from 3 in his NBA career, and just 10% from 3 in the freaking G-League. A defense with any kind of scouting report will cheat off of him to protect the paint, making it very difficult for his teammates to score. While he is a competent ball handler and defender, he is not so overwhelmingly good at either of these functions that the team can afford to endure his horrific impact on spacing. It would be one thing if he was an Ausar Thompson type of rebounding/defending menace, but he isn't. He is just a guy on defense.

Yeah but if that's the way the coaching staff feels, why even play him? He was 1-1 in his two minutes of play, and was trying out there, why can't you find a way to give him a couple more minutes of Poole's minutes, or Shamet's, or Kispert's? Alone they could have given him 7-9 minutes from Poole. Shamet also has absolutely no future on this team, and let's face it, there's no point of showcasing him at this juncture because he's a known commodity. Just don't get wasting so many developmental minutes in a season we are tanking the **** out of.

You still have to beat out the vets in front of you. Bilal easily passes the eye test. Davis has pretty much looked like crap since he got to the league. When he’s not even showing out in the G league, then what’s the point in developing him? He’s going to be at best a 4th/5th guard type who can’t shoot. I doubt he’s in the league after next year

I don't disagree that Davis has sucked in his limited playing time. What I'm saying is it can't hurt to take a flier on him and give him some consistent minutes even if it's for 10 or so a game for the rest of the season. Best case scenario is he forces us to give him more minutes, worst case scenario we still suck and he sucks too, it ain't going to make a damn bit of difference for the season.

Don't act like no team has ever played young guys over vets when the vets are clearly better so that they can see what they can get from a young lad. None of our vets are long term pieces, so who the hell cares.

And you know what, you're probably right. Nothing that Davis has shown me is that he can crack an NBA rotation, but admittedly he has been given very limited times in his year and a half in the league. Also it is possible the G-League is not the best environment for him. Scoot Henderson was tearing it up in the G-League, and up until a recent good stretch of games, was god awful. Hell even Davis has a few decent games, albeit some awful ones too, at the end of last season when he finally got some playing time in the last 3 weeks of last season.

So again, maybe a long shot, but now's the damn time to take some half court heaves.

We finally get a rebuild everyone has pining for, and you still have folks on this board that think the team should still buy into arbitrary hierarchies. No player is not going to sign with us because we benched some middling veterans during a rebuild, so it's not even a reputational thing either.

CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:

mhd wrote:

CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:
Yeah but if that's the way the coaching staff feels, why even play him? He was 1-1 in his two minutes of play, and was trying out there, why can't you find a way to give him a couple more minutes of Poole's minutes, or Shamet's, or Kispert's? Alone they could have given him 7-9 minutes from Poole. Shamet also has absolutely no future on this team, and let's face it, there's no point of showcasing him at this juncture because he's a known commodity. Just don't get wasting so many developmental minutes in a season we are tanking the **** out of.

You still have to beat out the vets in front of you. Bilal easily passes the eye test. Davis has pretty much looked like crap since he got to the league. When he’s not even showing out in the G league, then what’s the point in developing him? He’s going to be at best a 4th/5th guard type who can’t shoot. I doubt he’s in the league after next year

I don't disagree that Davis has sucked in his limited playing time. What I'm saying is it can't hurt to take a flier on him and give him some consistent minutes even if it's for 10 or so a game for the rest of the season. Best case scenario is he forces us to give him more minutes, worst case scenario we still suck and he sucks too, it ain't going to make a damn bit of difference for the season.

Don't act like no team has ever played young guys over vets when the vets are clearly better so that they can see what they can get from a young lad. None of our vets are long term pieces, so who the hell cares.

And you know what, you're probably right. Nothing that Davis has shown me is that he can crack an NBA rotation, but admittedly he has been given very limited times in his year and a half in the league. Also it is possible the G-League is not the best environment for him. Scoot Henderson was tearing it up in the G-League, and up until a recent good stretch of games, was god awful. Hell even Davis has a few decent games, albeit some awful ones too, at the end of last season when he finally got some playing time in the last 3 weeks of last season.

So again, maybe a long shot, but now's the damn time to take some half court heaves.

We finally get a rebuild everyone has pining for, and you still have folks on this board that think the team should still buy into arbitrary hierarchies. No player is not going to sign with us because we benched some middling veterans during a rebuild, so it's not even a reputational thing either.

I'd say all this logic applies after the Trade Deadline. But until then, it's more important to play guys like Shamet and Wright over Davis. First of all, this the last chance to showcase them for trade. And secondly, by playing these better players, it is likely to improve our team record and elevate the trade value of ALL of our players.

But sure, after the Trade Deadline has passed, it can't hurt to play Davis over the vets.

It could hurt to play him over Jared Butler who actually looks like he might be an NBA player if given the opportunity. That's who we should take a long look at after the deadline. (Man, I'm starting to sound like CCJ and Morris Almond).

penbeast0 wrote:It could hurt to play him over Jared Butler who actually looks like he might be an NBA player if given the opportunity. That's who we should take a long look at after the deadline. (Man, I'm starting to sound like CCJ and Morris Almond).

I think Butler becomes the backup PG once Delon is traded at the deadline.

mhd wrote:

penbeast0 wrote:It could hurt to play him over Jared Butler who actually looks like he might be an NBA player if given the opportunity. That's who we should take a long look at after the deadline. (Man, I'm starting to sound like CCJ and Morris Almond).

I think Butler becomes the backup PG once Delon is traded at the deadline.

Unless he becomes the starter.

It'll actually be pretty interesting if Tyus and Wright both get traded. Our point guard options will be Butler, Poole and Avdija. Frankly, I'd really like to see Avdija give it a go at PG for the remaining 35 games. It'll probably hurt the offense a bit because he is too turnover prone, but it will really help develop him individually.

Butler will get a lot of backup PG minutes because Deni still has to go to the bench early in the 1st and 3rd so he can cover the backup PF minutes when Kuzma sits.

AFM wrote:Go check his G league stats. I posted them in the other thread. They're actually horrific. He's done.

He’s played 100 minutes in the g-league after collecting DNPs for an entire season. His numbers actually look fine besides the shot not falling, which is to be expected after not playing basketball for so long.

People should atleast attempt to be rational here.