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Long Term Plan? (merged threads)

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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#841 » by TheSecretWeapon » Fri Apr 3, 2009 2:14 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Ruffin's still in the league, playing for the playoff-bound Blazers.

That dude, chemical engineering major with very limited game, has to be one of the smartest players in the league. Coaches love him.


I talked with Ruffin pretty extensively when I was doing my defensive tracking stuff. Very smart guy, very hard worker. Which makes his lack of shooting ability even more puzzling. I had an amusing exchange with him to start our conversation about tracking individual defense:

ME
You're an engineer. Have you ever spent any time on statistical analysis?

RUFFIN
Nah. Stats leave out so much. There are so many ways you can influence
a game without it showing up in the box score.

ME
Well, I've actually been working on a project to track some of those
other ways?

RUFFIN
Oh.

ME
I track individual defensive contributions. It lets me look at how individual
defenders perform against certain kinds of offenses, generate defensive
box scores, and even come up with an overall defensive "grade."

RUFFIN
Oh.

ME
The numbers show you as one of the team's better defenders.

RUFFIN
Really? Let me take a look...
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#842 » by LyricalRico » Fri Apr 3, 2009 2:38 pm

^ :rofl:
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#843 » by Rafael122 » Fri Apr 3, 2009 10:55 pm

I couldn't help but think that maybe the reason why Ernie hasn't made any moves is because he wants to see what he has first. I know its just one game, but I couldn't help but think that maybe we've got something with Arenas/Young/Butler/McGuire/Haywood/Jamison/Blatche/Critter/McGee/Songaila. Possibility of adding Griffin and we have something there. I don't know, I was just thinking. New coach with a good defensive scheme, and a healthy team...they could make noise. Not necessarily win a title, but make noise.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#844 » by Ruzious » Fri Apr 3, 2009 11:16 pm

doclinkin wrote:JCritter is also a serious student of the game. He's apparently got an extensive video collection of various Point Guards that he studies and tries to pick up tips from. I suspect he'll improve a few notches as he keeps grinding. Hard work + a modicum of smarts + athleticism + coaching tends to pay off eventually in most cases.

Unless of course you're Mike Ruffin.

3 things that were obvious when Crit was at Gatech - 1. Talented. 2. Very raw PG skills even at the college level. 3. Great attitude. The thing I said about him when he was drafted - He's going to be a good player at about the same time he becomes a free agent. So, nothing about him has been a surprise.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#845 » by pancakes3 » Fri Apr 3, 2009 11:39 pm

Arenas/Young/Butler/McGuire/Haywood/Jamison/Blatche/Critter/McGee/Songaila


young, maguire, and mcgee are all trade pieces in my opinion - and in that order (most to least tradable).

N1's attitude and mechanics scream "journeyman" to me. He's got all the physical tools of a kobe bryant but the way he plays is pretty disheartening. Consider his penchant to fade away. That's not going to change anytime soon because if Young had the work ethic to change it, it would've been corrected already. Consider Nick's negligible contribution on the rebounding, assist, and steals categories. It screams "selfish player", as well as "lazy player". We took a gamble that he would mature, but after 2 seasons to prove himself (this season especially) there's got to be a reason that DMac's starting over him and it probably shines through on the practice court.

DMac hustles his butt off but let's face it. he's just not that good. He is a utility player, sure... but if we had solid positional backups what good is he? I'd rather have a solid defined second unit like the lakers do than a hodgepodge of tweeners like the warriors.

McGee is a great asset to have but i'd have no problem trading him in the offseason. He'll be sitting pretty close to OPec at the very end of the bench and play a minimal amount of minutes next season with Haywood back. His value is still pretty high because of his physical ability and I think we'll get a lot more in return for our team in a trade than if we let him rot on the pine. Win-win-win.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#846 » by hands11 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 12:00 am

Rafael122 wrote:I couldn't help but think that maybe the reason why Ernie hasn't made any moves is because he wants to see what he has first. I know its just one game, but I couldn't help but think that maybe we've got something with Arenas/Young/Butler/McGuire/Haywood/Jamison/Blatche/Critter/McGee/Songaila. Possibility of adding Griffin and we have something there. I don't know, I was just thinking. New coach with a good defensive scheme, and a healthy team...they could make noise. Not necessarily win a title, but make noise.


You say that like it was some kind of new idea or explanation for EGs moves.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#847 » by hands11 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 12:05 am

pancakes3 wrote:
Arenas/Young/Butler/McGuire/Haywood/Jamison/Blatche/Critter/McGee/Songaila


young, maguire, and mcgee are all trade pieces in my opinion - and in that order (most to least tradable).

N1's attitude and mechanics scream "journeyman" to me. He's got all the physical tools of a kobe bryant but the way he plays is pretty disheartening. Consider his penchant to fade away. That's not going to change anytime soon because if Young had the work ethic to change it, it would've been corrected already. Consider Nick's negligible contribution on the rebounding, assist, and steals categories. It screams "selfish player", as well as "lazy player". We took a gamble that he would mature, but after 2 seasons to prove himself (this season especially) there's got to be a reason that DMac's starting over him and it probably shines through on the practice court.

DMac hustles his butt off but let's face it. he's just not that good. He is a utility player, sure... but if we had solid positional backups what good is he? I'd rather have a solid defined second unit like the lakers do than a hodgepodge of tweeners like the warriors.

McGee is a great asset to have but i'd have no problem trading him in the offseason. He'll be sitting pretty close to OPec at the very end of the bench and play a minimal amount of minutes next season with Haywood back. His value is still pretty high because of his physical ability and I think we'll get a lot more in return for our team in a trade than if we let him rot on the pine. Win-win-win.



I would have said this 2 weeks ago but, I bet your wrong with Nick now. He isn't going anywhere and he will be solid for us.

DMAC is still a question. He has improved a lot. Again, I don't think he is going anywhere so he gets another year to shows us.

As for McGee. Anyone that would let him go is missing the boat completely.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#848 » by nate33 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 12:28 am

pancakes3 wrote:N1's attitude and mechanics scream "journeyman" to me. He's got all the physical tools of a kobe bryant but the way he plays is pretty disheartening. Consider his penchant to fade away. That's not going to change anytime soon because if Young had the work ethic to change it, it would've been corrected already. Consider Nick's negligible contribution on the rebounding, assist, and steals categories. It screams "selfish player", as well as "lazy player". We took a gamble that he would mature, but after 2 seasons to prove himself (this season especially) there's got to be a reason that DMac's starting over him and it probably shines through on the practice court.

I disagree about Young. He has really come around lately. He's scored in double figures in 12 of the last 13 games (scored 9 in the other one) while shooting an eFG% of 53%. What I like is that he's been pretty consistent over that stretch of games. He had one 2-12 dud but other than that, shot right around 50% in all the other games. I also think he plays better defense that everyone on the team except Haywood and McGuire. The other encouraging sign is how well he played alongside Arenas last night. He didn't force things when the Big Three were on the floor but created the offense when they sat. He also played good D. Overall, he has been pounding the ball a lot less and passing more. (The only thing that really bugs me about him is his inability to rebound.) It's possible that things are finally clicking for him. I think he has earned another year before I look to trade him. (Don't get me wrong, he's certainly expendable. But I don't think trading him is a priority.)

pancakes3 wrote:DMac hustles his butt off but let's face it. he's just not that good. He is a utility player, sure... but if we had solid positional backups what good is he? I'd rather have a solid defined second unit like the lakers do than a hodgepodge of tweeners like the warriors.

I definitely disagree about DMac. At the rate DMac is going, he won't be a backup with an undefined role, he'll be a starter who guards the opposition's best player while making up for all the weird idiosyncrasies of this roster. All he needs is a jumper and he has definitely shown signs of developing one.

pancakes3 wrote:McGee is a great asset to have but i'd have no problem trading him in the offseason. He'll be sitting pretty close to OPec at the very end of the bench and play a minimal amount of minutes next season with Haywood back. His value is still pretty high because of his physical ability and I think we'll get a lot more in return for our team in a trade than if we let him rot on the pine. Win-win-win.

I agree that McGee is potentially a trade asset. It looks like the plan is to try and compete right now, not build for a distant future. McGee doesn't fit into that plan. He's definitely tradeable if the right offer comes along. Blatche can handle backup center duties.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#849 » by ZonkertheBrainless » Sat Apr 4, 2009 12:43 am

You guys are nuts. I'd much rather trade Blatche than McGee.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#850 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Apr 4, 2009 12:53 am

nate, I think Javale's too freakish of an athlete to trade.

Problem with McGee is his defense is a long ways off. Don't see him winning matchups at C any time soon. I agree that at C he doesn't fit the plans in the immediate future.

Where I think he fits into the plans right now is when he plays PF next to Brendan or Andray. McGee can catch the ball and he can finish with the best of them in transition. Javale has a bit of a face up game, too. I see a guy who can score 18 a night, easily, within a couple years.

He can really score a lot over shorter opponents, which is what would happen if he's at PF.

I'd much rather trade Jamison for somebody like Rasheed and keep Javale than trade McGee at this point.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#851 » by nate33 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 1:49 am

Don't get me wrong. It's not like I want to trade McGee. But if we're gearing up for a "win now" run, and we can get a real good return in a McGee trade, then McGee definitely should be on the table.

What if we could trade McGee + Etan + Stevenson + Young for Joe Johnson? That's the kind of "win now" trade that I could see management pulling the trigger on.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#852 » by yungal07 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 1:50 am

nate33 wrote:Don't get me wrong. It's not like I want to trade McGee. But if we're gearing up for a "win now" run, and we can get a real good return in a McGee trade, then McGee definitely should be on the table.

What if we could trade McGee + Etan + Stevenson + Young for Joe Johnson? That's the kind of "win now" trade that I could see management pulling the trigger on.


And our pick, but Atlanta is not doing that. Johnson is their franchise.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#853 » by Rafael122 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 3:44 am

I've always been against trading Nick Young. He's got potential defensively with his wingspan, and the dude is instant offense off the bench. You take him off the bench and we've got nothing. Blatche is too inconsistent, you don't know what you're gonna get with Songaila. Young is our best option off the bench. Remember a few years ago we all complained about how bad our bench is? Well look at it now, and we want to break that up? Meh.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#854 » by no D in Hibachi » Sat Apr 4, 2009 4:23 am

Rafael122 wrote:I've always been against trading Nick Young. He's got potential defensively with his wingspan, and the dude is instant offense off the bench. You take him off the bench and we've got nothing. Blatche is too inconsistent, you don't know what you're gonna get with Songaila. Young is our best option off the bench. Remember a few years ago we all complained about how bad our bench is? Well look at it now, and we want to break that up? Meh.


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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#855 » by hands11 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 6:51 am

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02954.html


EG Looking Good
They've also presented an argument supporting Wizards General Manager Ernie Grunfeld's decision to keep his core intact. "We hope that this will give people a bit of a preview of what we think we will be next year. This is what we thought we would be this year," Wizards interim coach Ed Tapscott said of the win against Cleveland. "It's nice to be able to capture some of that here at the end."

Gil as a pass first PG
Arenas has no trouble controlling the floor, though, as he has dished out 20 assists with only one turnover in his two games. "Gilbert has come back with a wonderful, pass-first mentality," Tapscott said.

Woodman - A True Center
Haywood, who had a double-double against Cleveland with 12 points and 10 rebounds, has provided some defensive backbone for the Wizards upon his return. In his first two games, the Wizards are outscoring opponents by 26 points when he is on floor. Haywood is still trying to regain his timing and stamina. "My weight is fine, but other than my weight I am supremely out of shape," Haywood said. "I don't think I've been this out of shape since high school."

Tough Juice - Still Maturing
"I learned through the course of my career, as a veteran. You've got to cherish moments. The moments and stuff that pass over the past four years, I didn't cherish them like I should've," he said. "But now, these are moments I'm really just taking it in and being grateful. What didn't break me is going to make me. We're getting stronger and we're getting healthy and next year is a big season. I'm going to cherish every moment next year, and it starts now."

This is good stuff
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#856 » by hands11 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 6:56 am

The Wizards became the third team in the league to beat the Cavaliers twice this season. The other two? The defending champion Boston Celtics and the Los Angeles Lakers.


Asked before the game if he's going to miss the Wizards this postseason, Cavaliers Coach Mike Brown said: "In a nutshell, no. From the crab dribble to Soulja Boy to Jay-Z to DeShawn Stevenson, the hard fouls and so on. It's a talented team, and there was a couple of times that some of those games could have gone either way and it could have been the difference in the series. I'm okay not playing those guys."

At the conclusion of the game, Butler took off his jersey and whirled it above his head while Arenas raised his arms to the ceiling. The team exited to a standing ovation. The sweetest reunion. "Just to give the city a flash of what can be next year," Butler said. "I thought that was special."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 04207.html

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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#857 » by Ruzious » Sat Apr 4, 2009 1:47 pm

Count me in on those who are coming around on Young. He's a different guy out there lately - playing with a passion that had been missing from him. Somebody must have gotten through to him.

Dom - he still absolutely needs to show he can hit open jumpers consistently. Otherwise, he's not a starting option on a decent team.

McGee and Blatche - I'm not married to keeping either one of them. I'd slightly prefer to keep McGee over Blatche, but it concerns me that McGee's skills are so raw - considering he comes from a basketball family. Hopefully, physical maturation will take care of some of his problems. I think he has a better attitude than Blatche, but he needs to work harder.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#858 » by closg00 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 3:38 pm

Minutes will be scarce next year, so I advocate swapping McGuire for James Gist, and Crit for Will Conroy. I appreciate the hard work that they have put in, but we would be better off having players who can put up point coming off the bench.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#859 » by Rafael122 » Sat Apr 4, 2009 3:42 pm

I could deal with Young's knucklehead attitude. The fact is, the kid comes to play. He's all business on the court.
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Re: Long Term Plan? (merged threads) 

Post#860 » by doclinkin » Sat Apr 4, 2009 4:18 pm

Ruzious wrote:Count me in on those who are coming around on Young. He's a different guy out there lately - playing with a passion that had been missing from him. Somebody must have gotten through to him.

Dom - he still absolutely needs to show he can hit open jumpers consistently. Otherwise, he's not a starting option on a decent team.

McGee and Blatche - I'm not married to keeping either one of them. I'd slightly prefer to keep McGee over Blatche, but it concerns me that McGee's skills are so raw - considering he comes from a basketball family. Hopefully, physical maturation will take care of some of his problems. I think he has a better attitude than Blatche, but he needs to work harder.


Young: I think the prospect of adding Gil back to the roster has helped Nick's attitude a ton. When you has a chance of winning it makes it easier not to seize up in fear overthink and try to do too much. Gilbert challenges him to raise his game while also keeping things loose and fun. Loose and fun is great when you're winning, if not you'll tend to catch hell. Tough for Nick since loose and fun are his primary language even though he's a sensitive kid underneath the goofy exterior. Plus as Gilbert comes back and shows a team-first serious attitude he provides a role-model for how to give up the spotlight in favor of the Wins. Plus, Gil has the on-court ability to recognize a mismatch and tell Nick when and where it's his turn to "Go". Gives the kid confidence when the allstar says 'This one is all you, get him".

Dom. His form is better, his range is increasing, he now steps into the open shot without hesitation. He's on the progression curve towards reliable. If DeSteve improved next to Gil and after a year with Hopla, I have every confidence in Dom's workmanship. He's doing what is asked of him and having an overall positive effect.

The JV: Yes, physical maturation is key, the kid has added 30 pounds in two years, was playing as a face-up 3 in highschool since he was too skinny to take the contact. Is still learning how Big he is, and has shown some skills here that he never displayed in college.

The BFD Blatche. He's adding to his game as a reliable roleplayer, learning to pick his spots. Makes fewer 'hell no' plays per game, is still a better back-up to Haywood than anyone else on the roster, -- and depending on match-ups contends with Songaila well for that duty behind Jamison. The primary frustration with him is that despite the size and talent he hasn't contended for that starting spot. Fine, he's being beaten out by a sometime allstar and a top 5 defensive center. For a second round pick on a cheap contract, I can live with a slow steady progression from a back-up Big. Kid is still improving: PER remains steady but turnovers decreasing, passing ratios improving. Foul rate improving a little wee bit (no longer worst in the league, he's fallen outside the top/bottom 5...)

All important stats for a roleplaying back-up. And good signs especially in a year where he carried a heavier load (10% of team total points). Still slow improvement, but still moving in the right direction, bodes well as a back-up on a winning squad. Still room for a breakout. BUt yeah still needs to improve footwork and conditioning and strength and smarts to cut that foul rate in half. My feeling here is that Brendan helps him the most here. Teaching him how to prep for games, read scouting reports, work hard in the weight room, etc. Even just by example and osmosis-- though he has mentored him in the past.

Just saying I'm open to trades on most anybody, but I still think our back-ups have decent potential. As back-ups. Again, all you can ask from any player is constant improvement. That way lies perfection.

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