Where I thought we would be / where we are

[The Consiglieri]

I take solace in knowing that this past season is probably the worst it’s going to get for at least the next decade. I think next season can be really fun and then primed for take off in 2026 and beyond.

2026,2028, and 2030 swaps with the Suns (looking at you 2028) could be chef’s kiss.

Next season could be worse, if/as we move on from left over vets via trades and move towards the kiddo's full time.

I don't think much will change, 15-20 instead of 15 probably, but injuries to Deni, Bilal again, other guys could make it worse. Let me add, I 1000% think '19-'23 was worse than this, because it was utterly directionless stupidity. No plan, just a pipe dream and a desire to cash checks from idiot Ted motivating all decisions. 15 wins this year was fine, who cares, there is a clear direction and aim, and its a sound one, there is hope in that, far more hope than the inane bull--- that guided the second half of '18-'19, and all of '19-'20 through '22-'23. I take solace in that, and the 60 loss seasons don't bother me at all, now that there's sense for the first time in eons. Even the joy of actually tearing it down and rebuilding in '09-'10 was neutered by the reality that we'd utterly botched the '09 draft so badly that the team was derailed at least a year if not more by the terrible decision to trade the pick for vets.

This time, everything their doing is sound philosophically, it may not work, but it makes sense, and is premised on good process and best practices. That's literally never been true ever, except '10-'13, and '10-'13 was guided by a self-interested, talentless moron, in the nearly 40 years I've watched, so yeah, I'm not in the least bothered by potential 67 loss seasons, its literally the best season that happened to this team since 1978-1979 when I was 3.

[Zonkerbl]

This part is not true. The Zards fanbase doesn’t root for the opponents. It’s the opponent’s fan that infiltrate Cap One that you hear rooting for their team.

Same thing is happening right now in Philly where Knick fans have showed up in large numbers. The Sixers and their fans are pissed…but I’m kinda enjoying it because it’s what Philly fans do here in DC.

ok that's a distinction without a difference. The MCI center is regularly filled halfway with fans who root for the other team. What you're describing is a rare, playoff context driven occurrence. What happens in DC is almost every damn home game. Those are fans who LIVE HERE who actively root for other teams. That is a SUCKY FAN BASE. There are *reasons* - we have a transient fan base, our sucky ownership actively encouraged it - but it is still the case that a city of 8 million people has no home court advantage, which loses them 5 games a season by itself, and can't attract the free agents that cities a tenth - no, in some cases a twentieth! - their size can (Cleveland?????).

I have lived in three different cities that had NBA franchises and I immediately switched allegiance to the local home team when I moved. Rooting for some other city's team WHILE YOU ARE LIVING THERE is cowardly, shameful behavior. Grow a spine and root for the crappy home team, you carpetbagger.

Lol, weak sauce. I've been battling Niner and Raider Fan, and Warrior fan etc in the bay for 3 decades before I moved to nowhere, it was anything but cowardly to walk into those stadiums with opponents gear, especially considering most of the time, the gear I had on represented the clear inferior team. Didn't do that so much with raider fan, just A's fans who were more congenial. But no, its not cowardly lol. Its pretty hellish to literally always be in enemy gear when you go into stadiums, knowing your gonna get heckled, constantly threatened, spit at by drunks, have your car potentially damaged by idiots etc. Not fun, but its life when your a fan of a team from far away (and neither myself, nor my brother and close friends were ever the taunting sort either).

Ok, this is horsecrap. 100%.

You are not being brave to root for LeBron with your 5000 friends at the MCI center. Come on. You KNOW I'm not talking about walking into MSG with Pelicans gear on. I'm talking LeBron nut huggers, San Antonio nut huggers, Chicago nut huggers, by the thousands, every damn home game. This isn't being BRAVE. This isn't TAKING A STAND. This is peeing on your local team with a smirk.

[The Consiglieri]

ok that's a distinction without a difference. The MCI center is regularly filled halfway with fans who root for the other team. What you're describing is a rare, playoff context driven occurrence. What happens in DC is almost every damn home game. Those are fans who LIVE HERE who actively root for other teams. That is a SUCKY FAN BASE. There are *reasons* - we have a transient fan base, our sucky ownership actively encouraged it - but it is still the case that a city of 8 million people has no home court advantage, which loses them 5 games a season by itself, and can't attract the free agents that cities a tenth - no, in some cases a twentieth! - their size can (Cleveland?????).

I have lived in three different cities that had NBA franchises and I immediately switched allegiance to the local home team when I moved. Rooting for some other city's team WHILE YOU ARE LIVING THERE is cowardly, shameful behavior. Grow a spine and root for the crappy home team, you carpetbagger.

Lol, weak sauce. I've been battling Niner and Raider Fan, and Warrior fan etc in the bay for 3 decades before I moved to nowhere, it was anything but cowardly to walk into those stadiums with opponents gear, especially considering most of the time, the gear I had on represented the clear inferior team. Didn't do that so much with raider fan, just A's fans who were more congenial. But no, its not cowardly lol. Its pretty hellish to literally always be in enemy gear when you go into stadiums, knowing your gonna get heckled, constantly threatened, spit at by drunks, have your car potentially damaged by idiots etc. Not fun, but its life when your a fan of a team from far away (and neither myself, nor my brother and close friends were ever the taunting sort either).

Ok, this is horsecrap. 100%.

You are not being brave to root for LeBron with your 5000 friends at the MCI center. Come on. You KNOW I'm not talking about walking into MSG with Pelicans gear on. I'm talking LeBron nut huggers, San Antonio nut huggers, Chicago nut huggers, by the thousands, every damn home game. This isn't being BRAVE. This isn't TAKING A STAND. This is peeing on your local team with a smirk.

I'm not in DC, I'm from the bay. I'm talking about walking into Candlestick, and the Santa Clara stadium, and the Coliseum in Oakland, the Oracle, though it wasn't called that, the San Jose arena where the Sharks play etc. I walked into those stadiums and Arena's with Wizards/Bullets, Redskins, Caps, Nats/Expos gear etc.

Not fun. Oakland, I can't remember if I was ballsy enough to walk into redskins gear there, that was Indians gear (long story) and the A's usually sucked too so it was warmer fans for whatever reason, the Raiders drew the violent crowds, A's drew families. Niner fans were colossal ----heads, but Seattle fans were even worse. I'm from the West Coast, with an older brother that turned me into a DC sports fan before I knew better, so I grew up in the bay, wearing jersey's and hats of whatever team the local bay team was about to annihilate... (at one point, my teams were like 6-26 h2h against the bay teams back when i attended games from the early eighties to '04). The Caps literally never beat the Sharks in any game I ever attempted (made much worse by the fact that they used to schedule that game for around my birthday in December) period. The Redskins lost every game I attended until 1999. I still have a picture from December of '99 with me pointing at the scoreboard after that win, our record against SF when I was in public school and college:
'81: Lost
'83: Won playoff game which they always said the refs gave us (they kinda did, though Mosely's horrible kicking nearly cost us it)
'84: Lost
'85: Lost
'86: MNF Win: This was the last win ever, for the Redskins against the Niners, when I was in early 6th grade, until 1999)
'88: MNF Loss
'90: loss (I attended that one)
'90 Playoff loss: I watched that one on tv
'92 Playoff loss
'94: Loss
'96: Loss
'98 Loss

Pretty brutal, from the time I started following the Redskins, around '79, they went 2-10 against the Niners from age 6 through age 23. I even missed the win in '78 because I didn't know what football was when I was 3.

[penbeast0]

ok that's a distinction without a difference. The MCI center is regularly filled halfway with fans who root for the other team. What you're describing is a rare, playoff context driven occurrence. What happens in DC is almost every damn home game. Those are fans who LIVE HERE who actively root for other teams. That is a SUCKY FAN BASE. There are *reasons* - we have a transient fan base, our sucky ownership actively encouraged it - but it is still the case that a city of 8 million people has no home court advantage, which loses them 5 games a season by itself, and can't attract the free agents that cities a tenth - no, in some cases a twentieth! - their size can (Cleveland?????).

I have lived in three different cities that had NBA franchises and I immediately switched allegiance to the local home team when I moved. Rooting for some other city's team WHILE YOU ARE LIVING THERE is cowardly, shameful behavior. Grow a spine and root for the crappy home team, you carpetbagger.

Lol, weak sauce. I've been battling Niner and Raider Fan, and Warrior fan etc in the bay for 3 decades before I moved to nowhere, it was anything but cowardly to walk into those stadiums with opponents gear, especially considering most of the time, the gear I had on represented the clear inferior team. Didn't do that so much with raider fan, just A's fans who were more congenial. But no, its not cowardly lol. Its pretty hellish to literally always be in enemy gear when you go into stadiums, knowing your gonna get heckled, constantly threatened, spit at by drunks, have your car potentially damaged by idiots etc. Not fun, but its life when your a fan of a team from far away (and neither myself, nor my brother and close friends were ever the taunting sort either).

Ok, this is horsecrap. 100%.

You are not being brave to root for LeBron with your 5000 friends at the MCI center. Come on. You KNOW I'm not talking about walking into MSG with Pelicans gear on. I'm talking LeBron nut huggers, San Antonio nut huggers, Chicago nut huggers, by the thousands, every damn home game. This isn't being BRAVE. This isn't TAKING A STAND. This is peeing on your local team with a smirk.

Being a front running Laker fan is different from being a Wizard fan in a city like Miami where the local team is both loved and a heck of a lot better than the Wiz every year. Lived in Washington for 45 years and had season tickets for about 10 of those; still a Wiz fan down here in South Florida though it's hard. I don't go to a lot of games though, just catch them on TV at Bokampers.

[AFM]

Probably not what OP meant when he asked "where we are", but basically from this thread I've learned no one actually lives in DC here. Bunch of FAKERS!!!!

[Zonkerbl]

Lol, weak sauce. I've been battling Niner and Raider Fan, and Warrior fan etc in the bay for 3 decades before I moved to nowhere, it was anything but cowardly to walk into those stadiums with opponents gear, especially considering most of the time, the gear I had on represented the clear inferior team. Didn't do that so much with raider fan, just A's fans who were more congenial. But no, its not cowardly lol. Its pretty hellish to literally always be in enemy gear when you go into stadiums, knowing your gonna get heckled, constantly threatened, spit at by drunks, have your car potentially damaged by idiots etc. Not fun, but its life when your a fan of a team from far away (and neither myself, nor my brother and close friends were ever the taunting sort either).

Ok, this is horsecrap. 100%.

You are not being brave to root for LeBron with your 5000 friends at the MCI center. Come on. You KNOW I'm not talking about walking into MSG with Pelicans gear on. I'm talking LeBron nut huggers, San Antonio nut huggers, Chicago nut huggers, by the thousands, every damn home game. This isn't being BRAVE. This isn't TAKING A STAND. This is peeing on your local team with a smirk.

I'm not in DC, I'm from the bay. I'm talking about walking into Candlestick, and the Santa Clara stadium, and the Coliseum in Oakland, the Oracle, though it wasn't called that, the San Jose arena where the Sharks play etc. I walked into those stadiums and Arena's with Wizards/Bullets, Redskins, Caps, Nats/Expos gear etc.

Not fun. Oakland, I can't remember if I was ballsy enough to walk into redskins gear there, that was Indians gear (long story) and the A's usually sucked too so it was warmer fans for whatever reason, the Raiders drew the violent crowds, A's drew families. Niner fans were colossal ----heads, but Seattle fans were even worse. I'm from the West Coast, with an older brother that turned me into a DC sports fan before I knew better, so I grew up in the bay, wearing jersey's and hats of whatever team the local bay team was about to annihilate... (at one point, my teams were like 6-26 h2h against the bay teams back when i attended games from the early eighties to '04). The Caps literally never beat the Sharks in any game I ever attempted (made much worse by the fact that they used to schedule that game for around my birthday in December) period. The Redskins lost every game I attended until 1999. I still have a picture from December of '99 with me pointing at the scoreboard after that win, our record against SF when I was in public school and college:
'81: Lost
'83: Won playoff game which they always said the refs gave us (they kinda did, though Mosely's horrible kicking nearly cost us it)
'84: Lost
'85: Lost
'86: MNF Win: This was the last win ever, for the Redskins against the Niners, when I was in early 6th grade, until 1999)
'88: MNF Loss
'90: loss (I attended that one)
'90 Playoff loss: I watched that one on tv
'92 Playoff loss
'94: Loss
'96: Loss
'98 Loss

Pretty brutal, from the time I started following the Redskins, around '79, they went 2-10 against the Niners from age 6 through age 23. I even missed the win in '78 because I didn't know what football was when I was 3.

Dude you can talk about what you want to talk about, I guess. Let me know when you'd like to join the conversation we're actually having

[pancakes3]

it's one thing to be a transplant fan in a different city.

when people talk about fans rooting against their own team, i'm thinking more DMV/757 lifers who are cowboys fans. Or guys who have never been to LA even once yet they're rocking a Kobe jersey on the playground. Or the fact that despite being a mid-sized private university, Duke basketball is the #1 ranked program by revenue.

[doclinkin]

I thought it was a little unfair but there is some truth to it, in the sense that our super sucky fanbase that consistently roots for the other team in the building probably costs the team at least 5 "home court advantage" wins a year, which over time is really crippling.

This part is not true. The Zards fanbase doesn’t root for the opponents. It’s the opponent’s fan that infiltrate Cap One that you hear rooting for their team.

Same thing is happening right now in Philly where Knick fans have showed up in large numbers. The Sixers and their fans are pissed…but I’m kinda enjoying it because it’s what Philly fans do here in DC.

ok that's a distinction without a difference. The MCI center is regularly filled halfway with fans who root for the other team. What you're describing is a rare, playoff context driven occurrence. What happens in DC is almost every damn home game. Those are fans who LIVE HERE who actively root for other teams. That is a SUCKY FAN BASE. There are *reasons* - we have a transient fan base, our sucky ownership actively encouraged it - but it is still the case that a city of 8 million people has no home court advantage, which loses them 5 games a season by itself, and can't attract the free agents that cities a tenth - no, in some cases a twentieth! - their size can (Cleveland?????).

I have lived in three different cities that had NBA franchises and I immediately switched allegiance to the local home team when I moved. Rooting for some other city's team WHILE YOU ARE LIVING THERE is cowardly, shameful behavior. Grow a spine and root for the crappy home team, you carpetbagger.

I researched and wrote about this before. Apparently a large proportion of those fans, especially from winning and popular franchises, actually are traveling to DC because it is cheaper and easier to buy a plane ticket (bus, amtrak) to an away game than it is to get tickets in their home arena. It's a known thing. Not just for East Coast teams in the DC to BOS corridor, but especially for fans of teams like the LA teams and Warriors whose ticket prices are insane. It's cheap enough compared to prices of the visiting teams home arenas that fans can make a weekend of it, fly in for a game, see the DC sights, then fly home. Nobody is flying to Indiana. Or Sacramento. Or you know, Cleveland. Because what else are you gonna do. Watch a flaming river? If the home team starts winning, those tickets become less available and more pricey for visiting fans to obtain. It becomes less of a deal.

Solve the winning problem and we get a better crowd. Yes we still have fans on cell phones or arriving late or leaving early or self-involved, or transient transplants from other places. But the playoff games in the Gilbert Arenas era were thrumming. John Wall could ignite the crowd. When we are good, real fans show up.

That said there is something seriously dead about the lighting etc in that building. There is a reason why players shoot a lower percentage from 3 in our building. I didn't love the idea of building a monument to Ted in Virginia, but that arena does really need a facelift or a colonic or an exorcism or something.

[AFM]

Yeah it needs an exorcism, the entire franchise needs one, inhabited by the Greek Demon Terd

[The Consiglieri]

it's one thing to be a transplant fan in a different city.

when people talk about fans rooting against their own team, i'm thinking more DMV/757 lifers who are cowboys fans. Or guys who have never been to LA even once yet they're rocking a Kobe jersey on the playground. Or the fact that despite being a mid-sized private university, Duke basketball is the #1 ranked program by revenue.

In my case, it was having an older brother raised in DC until nearly elementary school who inexplicably had attached to all things DC before the family moved back to the bay right before I was born in '74. He, being my older brother, inculcated all things DC into my sporting fandom before I knew better, and so I was a DC sports fan before I turned 5 in late '79 despite never having lived there. Can't change it once its implanted, so there it is. Not been easy.

[pancakes3]

it's one thing to be a transplant fan in a different city.

when people talk about fans rooting against their own team, i'm thinking more DMV/757 lifers who are cowboys fans. Or guys who have never been to LA even once yet they're rocking a Kobe jersey on the playground. Or the fact that despite being a mid-sized private university, Duke basketball is the #1 ranked program by revenue.

In my case, it was having an older brother raised in DC until nearly elementary school who inexplicably had attached to all things DC before the family moved back to the bay right before I was born in '74. He, being my older brother, inculcated all things DC into my sporting fandom before I knew better, and so I was a DC sports fan before I turned 5 in late '79 despite never having lived there. Can't change it once its implanted, so there it is. Not been easy.

dang. bay area too. being a DC sports fan is already a curse but the added weight of coming up in the 80's with niners?!

[DCZards]

Apparently a large proportion of those fans, especially from winning and popular franchises, actually are traveling to DC because it is cheaper and easier to buy a plane ticket (bus, amtrak) to an away game than it is to get tickets in their home arena. It's a known thing. Not just for East Coast teams in the DC to BOS corridor, but especially for fans of teams like the LA teams and Warriors whose ticket prices are insane. It's cheap enough compared to prices of the visiting teams home arenas that fans can make a weekend of it, fly in for a game, see the DC sights, then fly home. Nobody is flying to Indiana. Or Sacramento. Or you know, Cleveland. Because what else are you gonna do. Watch a flaming river? If the home team starts winning, those tickets become less available and more pricey for visiting fans to obtain. It becomes less of a deal.

Nats-Phillies games can be the worst. Philly fans make the 2hr trek to DC for a weekend series and take over Nats Stadium for 2-3 games... while taking in the historic sites and beauty of DC. I guess that's what happens when your team is in a destination city.

[payitforward]

Zards... I caught that! DC is a destination city for tourism, for sure....

You don't need to be a destination city to build a good team; that's obvious. OKC is no destination! But, LA & NY are always going to find it easier to sign prime FAs than most other NBA towns, ours included.

[penbeast0]

Apparently a large proportion of those fans, especially from winning and popular franchises, actually are traveling to DC because it is cheaper and easier to buy a plane ticket (bus, amtrak) to an away game than it is to get tickets in their home arena. It's a known thing. Not just for East Coast teams in the DC to BOS corridor, but especially for fans of teams like the LA teams and Warriors whose ticket prices are insane. It's cheap enough compared to prices of the visiting teams home arenas that fans can make a weekend of it, fly in for a game, see the DC sights, then fly home. Nobody is flying to Indiana. Or Sacramento. Or you know, Cleveland. Because what else are you gonna do. Watch a flaming river? If the home team starts winning, those tickets become less available and more pricey for visiting fans to obtain. It becomes less of a deal.

Hey let me know the next time the Cuyahoga catches fire; we'll get Randy Newman to do a benefit concert, fly up to Cleveland, it'll be great.

There's the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the Orchestra is one of the best, and one of my college friends owns (or used to) an Irish Pub in Cleveland Heights.

[url]

Watch on YouTube

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[penbeast0]

it's one thing to be a transplant fan in a different city.

when people talk about fans rooting against their own team, i'm thinking more DMV/757 lifers who are cowboys fans. Or guys who have never been to LA even once yet they're rocking a Kobe jersey on the playground. Or the fact that despite being a mid-sized private university, Duke basketball is the #1 ranked program by revenue.

Always hated Cowboy/Yankee/Laker fans who weren't from those cities. It's excusable to root for the Cowboys if you grow up in Texas, not if you've never been closer to Texas than Fairfax County.

[montestewart]

Apparently a large proportion of those fans, especially from winning and popular franchises, actually are traveling to DC because it is cheaper and easier to buy a plane ticket (bus, amtrak) to an away game than it is to get tickets in their home arena. It's a known thing. Not just for East Coast teams in the DC to BOS corridor, but especially for fans of teams like the LA teams and Warriors whose ticket prices are insane. It's cheap enough compared to prices of the visiting teams home arenas that fans can make a weekend of it, fly in for a game, see the DC sights, then fly home. Nobody is flying to Indiana. Or Sacramento. Or you know, Cleveland. Because what else are you gonna do. Watch a flaming river? If the home team starts winning, those tickets become less available and more pricey for visiting fans to obtain. It becomes less of a deal.

Hey let me know the next time the Cuyahoga catches fire; we'll get Randy Newman to do a benefit concert, fly up to Cleveland, it'll be great.

There's the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the Orchestra is one of the best, and one of my college friends owns (or used to) an Irish Pub in Cleveland Heights.

[url]

Watch on YouTube

[/url]

Nice art museum too, and lots of green space in the metro area. I watched the eclipse in Cleveland. Cleveland’s alright, unless they’re playing DC.

[dobrojim]

been thinking about this while watching the 1st round...
The level of excellence needed just to win in the first rnd of the playoffs is insanely high.
We're an ocean away from that right now.

[9 and 20]

We're definitely an ocean away from competing. But - we're an ocean ahead of where we were before Wes was fired. Since that time, Poole became a useful-ish player, Deni showed some stuff, and Kuz continued his pretty good play. At mid season, before Wes was fired, none of those things were guaranteed and it was looking bleak. Like Cormac McCarthy The Road bleak.

Just need to hit on this pick this year and the outlines of something good are right there.