Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III)

[LyricalRico]

Well, well, well. The Knicks finally get their first competent GM since Grunfeld left. After suffering for years under Scott Layden and Isaiah Thomas, Knickerbocker fans can rely on the steady Donnie Walsh to guide them back to the playoffs. Here's what I assume will happen:

1. Isaiah Thomas will be fired. This is the first step in any NY rebuilding plan. Once he's gone, the fresh air can flow freely in Madison Square Garden.

2. Walsh will hire Rick Carlisle. He's a strong leader who has extensive playoff experience and who will focus on defense - two things the young Knicks need badly.

3. The entire roster will be on the trade block. I'm assuming that getting their cap in order will be a priority, as will creating playing time for the kiddies.

If they draft well (currently would have the #5 pick), can make a few deals to balance out the roster, and Carlisle gets the respect of the players - they can turn that thing around fairly quickly IMO.

[Soup's Uncle]

That's a lot of crappy contracts to unload.

[nate33]

That's actually a fun topic. How would I rebuild the Knicks?

I like steps one and two. Rick Carlisle would be a good choice to instill a defensive mindset. The only problem with Carlisle is that he isn't so good at developing young players.

Now for the hard part: Step 3. How does one clean up that terrible roster?

The guys on that team that I like are Lee, Balkman, Jeffries and Crawford. I figure there's no way to dump both Curry and Randolph, so, given the choice, I'd prefer to keep Randolph. At least he'll rebound and I can find a defensive center to cover his back. And his defense is serviceable if motivated.

Curry, Marbury and QRich are not in my future plans. I don't care for Nate Robinson either. He's a tough SOB, but ultrashort guys are never more than a sideshow in the NBA. You can't win with them.

But the trick is not to try to dump those contracts at all costs. It's impossible. New York is the place contracts come to die. There is no unloading bad contracts from New York. What I need to do is to take advantage of ownership's deep pockets. Keep those bad contracts (or trade them for equivalently bad contracts) until they become expriring contracts, and then look to trade them for talent.

The first thing I'd do is try to trade some of my bad attitude players for overpaid work-ethic guys. I've got to clean up my locker room. Again, I'm under no delusion that I'd actually save salary in the transaction. But maybe I could fool somebody into believing that they'd get a talent upgrade. Guys I'm targeting are: Etan Thomas, Dan Gadzuric, Tony Battie, Earl Watson, Speedy Claxton, Troy Murphy, Jamaal Tinsley, Brian Cardinal, Marko Jaric, Kenny Thomas, Rasho Nesterovic, Marcus Banks, TJ Ford. I'm offering Curry, Marbury and QRich, but I won't take back longer contracts.

How about this trade:
New York trades: Curry, QRich, Robinson, Chandler
New York receives: Gadzuric, B.Simmons, E.Watson

Miami trades: Blount
Miami receives: Curry

Milwaukee trades: Gadzuric, B.Simmons
Milwaukee receives: Blount, QRich

Seattle trades: Watson
Seattle recieves: N.Robinson

Miami does it to get a legit post presence. Milwaukee and Seattle each save a fair amount of money without sacrificing an important player.

Now I run with:
PG Watson/Marbury (whom I try to bury on the bench)
SG Crawford/Simmons
SF Balkman/Jeffries
PF Randolph/Lee
C Gadzuric/James

It's not a pretty lineup, but they'll play hard and defend. Maybe with this group, I can convince Randolph to be a team player.

From this foundation, I look to the draft and for trades to get real talent. I've got $28M in expiring contracts (Marbury and Rose) to use at the trade deadline. Next year, I've got another $31M in expiring contracts (J.James, J.Jeffries, E.Watson, B.Simmons) to use at the trade deadline. With a hard-working team, a major media market, and a good coach, I might position myself to be the beneficiary of the next Pau Gasol situation.

[tkunit]

they are doomed till the 2010 season

[mhd]

I think a Curry for Blount trade is a trade both teams do. The Knicks save a year off of Curry's contract, while Miami gets an upgrade at Center.

[mhd]

What about this trade?

Trade ID: 4551952

Pacers trade:
1) JO
2) Tinsley
3) Marquise Daniels

for:
1) Curry
2) Jerome James
3) Jamal Crawford
4) Jerome James

NEW LINEUPS:
Indy:
PG: Diener/Murray
SG: Crawford/Rush
SF: Dunleavy/QRich
PF: Granger/Diogu
C: Curry/Foster

Knicks:
PG: Tinsley/Robinson
SG: Daniels/Chandler
SF: Balkman/Jefferies
PF: Randolph/Rose
C: JO/Lee

Why for the Knicks?
1) They shave a year off of their long-term cap issues since Crawford+Curry are 3 more years while only Tinsley is 3 years coming back. They do this to prepare to go full boat for Lebron.
2) JO would be a better defender by miles than Curry.
3) Tinsley is a good passer who'd set up the offense.
4) JO and Daniels only have 2 more years of their contracts.
5) They can draft Mayo with their lotto pick and plug him in at 2g.

Why for Pacers?
1) They get out guys with character problems.
2) Curry could use a fresh place, and perhaps Obie is the guy to give it to him.
3) With Murph, Dunleavy, its hard to project cap room till they expire, so getting Curry who expires with them isn't a burden.
4) Crawford would be a long-needed scorer at the 2g.
5) They can draft an Augustine/Collison with their 1st rounder and start him from day one.

[Kanyewest]

The Knicks should make a trade for Cleavland's expiring contracts which include Joe Smith, Eric Snow, Wally Szczerbiak, and Damon Jones. I think Cleavland could want Eddy Curry, Zach Randolph and/or Quentin Richardson.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Biggest thing the Knicks could do to get better is to acquire players with some consideration for how they'll play together. And, maybe using some of those vast resources to fully consider how good guys actually are before they go and get them.

Two of the biggest acquisitions are prime examples -- Curry's performance with the Knicks was entirely predictable BEFORE the Knicks gave up picks and a bunch of money to get him. Randolph and Curry not working well together was predictable BEFORE the Knicks traded for Randolph.

I like nate's trade thoughts (though I'd work real hard to move Marbury out too). Only thing with the lineup -- Lee should be starting. It's tough to get him in there because he's really not big enough to play center. But he's more of an impact player than is Randolph. With that group of players, the best move would probably be to suck it up and use Lee at center with Randolph at PF, and then use zones and doubles to help them out on post-ups.

[nate33]

What about this trade?

Trade ID: 4551952

Pacers trade:
1) JO
2) Tinsley
3) Marquise Daniels

for:
1) Curry
2) Jerome James
3) Jamal Crawford
4) Jerome James

I forgot about JO. The Indy situation is actually the closest thing left to the Pau Gasol situation. New York could definitely make a play for him.

I don't think you are offering enough though. Indy isn't going to just give away JO. You gotta offer them some cap relief. Maybe offer to take on both Murphy and JO.

In fact, JO would likely be my first target at the trade deadline next year. By then, Marbury and Rose's $28M in expiring contracts would seem real valuable. If Indy is sucking, I might be able to simply trade those two for JO and Daniels straight up. Basically, I'd be taking JO off their hands in exchange for pure cap relief.

Factoring my offseason trade plus this trade deadline deal, the team would look like this at the start of the 2009/10 season:

PG Watson/2008 lotto pick
SG Crawford/M.Daniels/B.Simmons
SF Balkman/Jeffries
PF Randolph/Lee
C JO/Gadzuric/2009 lotto pick

Now we're getting somewhere! And we still have $38M in expiring contracts to use at the trade deadline in the 2009/10 season. If we make no additional trades, we could simply let Daniels, Watson, J.James, and Simmons walk.

[LyricalRico]

I forgot about JO. The Indy situation is actually the closest thing left to the Pau Gasol situation. New York could definitely make a play for him.

One question is how would Bird and Walsh be at the negotiating table?

[nate33]

-= original quote snipped =-



One question is how would Bird and Walsh be at the negotiating table?

I think that personal relationships are overrated in these things. The bottom line is that both teams would do a deal that they perceive would benefit their respective teams.

For now, I don't think Indy is at the point where they're willing to dump JO with little in return. But Marbury's and Rose's contracts get more and more enticing as they get shorter and shorter. By the trade deadline next year, if Indy continues to suck, they might be very tempted to trade JO and Daniels for instant cap relief.

[miller31time]

I think that personal relationships are overrated in these things. The bottom line is that both teams would do a deal that they perceive would benefit their respective teams.

For now, I don't think Indy is at the point where they're willing to dump JO with little in return. But Marbury's and Rose's contracts get more and more enticing as they get shorter and shorter. By the trade deadline next year, if Indy continues to suck, they might be very tempted to trade JO and Daniels for instant cap relief.

It seems like McHale has no problems letting the Wolves take a hit so long as the Celtics prosper. I'm not talking about the KG deal (though there seemed to be better offers on the table at different points in time), but how about taking on Walker and giving up a good trading piece in Ricky Davis?

Just saying, when one person has a quasi-allegiance to one team, they might bend a little more than usual.

[mhd]

-= original quote snipped =-



It seems like McHale has no problems letting the Wolves take a hit so long as the Celtics prosper. I'm not talking about the KG deal (though there seemed to be better offers on the table at different points in time), but how about taking on Walker and giving up a good trading piece in Ricky Davis?

Just saying, when one person has a quasi-allegiance to one team, they might bend a little more than usual.

Mchale did the best deal he could. Walker expires next year, while Blount expires in two years. Plus, they got a future 1st out of the deal. It was a good deal for Minny.

The KG deal was a good deal as well. When the owner is demanding a huge expiring back, the best deal was Boston's. Jefferson signing a very reasonable extension (5 for 55) is also part of that deal. They also got back a lost first rounder. McHale is building that team the right way. If they get lucky and get a Rose/Beasley, they'll be in business.

[Ruzious]

I was really hoping Milwaukee would hire Walsh and Carlisle.

As ugly as their roster is, they could actually make some decent moves and have the makings of a future. Marbury's huge expiring next year makes him a valuable commodity. Rose as well. They can take on other teams' bloated long-term contracts and picks. Just go under the assumption that they'll never be under the cap, and they can afford to pay large lux tax. PG and C are very strong positions in this draft, so they should be able to get 1 to start for the next decade.

[JWizmentality]

I was really hoping Milwaukee would hire Walsh and Carlisle.

As ugly as their roster is, they could actually make some decent moves and have the makings of a future. Marbury's huge expiring next year makes him a valuable commodity. Rose as well. They can take on other teams' bloated long-term contracts and picks. Just go under the assumption that they'll never be under the cap, and they can afford to pay large lux tax. PG and C are very strong positions in this draft, so they should be able to get 1 to start for the next decade.

Hell no, the Bucks' situation is easily correctable. Let him go to NY. That's a 3 year spring cleaning at best. Less competition for us.

[Ruzious]

-= original quote snipped =-



Hell no, the Bucks' situation is easily correctable. Let him go to NY. That's a 3 year spring cleaning at best. Less competition for us.

You're right, but I like the Bucks (Lew Alcindor was the 1st player I remember as a kid - hoping to grow to 7'4 but coming up more than a foot and a half short.) and dislike the Knicks. Long live Isaiah.

[nate33]

-= original quote snipped =-



Hell no, the Bucks' situation is easily correctable.

How?

The Bucks have arguably the third worst roster situation in the NBA behind only New York and Indy. They've got a ton of bad contracts. Everybody who isn't on a rookie-scale contract is overpaid. They owe $55M to Gadzuric, Simmons and Bell for God's sake! Those guys would combine for about 15 minutes a game on our team (and we're not even that good).

Even their "stars" are overpaid. Redd and Mo Williams are good, but they're not worth $76M over the next 3 years. Bogut is their only reasonable contract, and that'll change once his rookie deal expires next summer.

Oh yeah, they're 24-45 this year. They suck badly yet odds are they'll land the 6th pick in a draft with just 2 impact players.

[Dat2U]

Here's what I'd do if I was hired as the Knicks GM.

1. Be Honest to the fans. There's no quick fix here. Layden & Isiah built a ditch that an army couldn't dig out of. It's going to take at least 2-3 years to get this team even sniffing the playoffs.

2. Trade Zach Randolph to Cleveland for Wally Szczerbiak. Getting rid of Zach is probably the most important move NY could make this offseason. He's a complete cancer, just look at Portland's revitalization this year once he left. Zach is the definition of a team killer. Trade options are limited for him so all I'd look in return is a good guy who could start if need be. Cleveland's GM, Danny Ferry is probably stupid enough to take Zach on.

3. Trade Eddy Curry to Dallas for Jason Terry. Eddy isn't the cancer Zach is. In fact he's a pretty harmless fat kid who just wants to have his cake and eat too. Problem is he doesn't help a team at all on the court even though Isiah at one point thought he was an all-star C. Adding a solid veteran like Terry to help in the backcourt makes this team better.

4. Tell Stephon Marbury to just "beat it" like Michael Jackson. Buy him out if necessary but I wouldn't let him within 1000 ft. of Madison Square Garden. He's been a nightmare for the franchise since his arrival. Much like Zach, he's poisionous in the locker room.

5. With the 5th pick (projected) in the '08 draft I'd draft the best player available. IMO, it would likely be O.J. Mayo if Beasley, Rose, Lopez & A. Randolph are gone. Jerryd Bayless would be my backup option. O.J. is a combo guard but I think ideally he'll be a SG in the league. I'd look for Sean Singletary in the 2nd round.

6. I'd refuse to sign any additional long term contracts to the roster. The key is clearing cap room, not adding to it. The team needs a stopgap C in FA to simply eat minutes for the 08-09 season. I'd try to sign Kwame Brown to a one year deal for the MLE. Kwame is a brutal offensive player but his low post defense remains a strong point. With the offensive minded lineup that's going out there, low post D will definitely be needed. DeSagna Diop would be a backup choice, but again, I'd refuse to sign either player beyond a one year deal, the hope would be that the entire MLE would be enticing enough for either player to take a risk without getting a future guarantee. Likely neither player would see full MLE type money over a multiyear deal.

Here's the new lineup:

PF David Lee / Renaldo Balkman / Malik Rose
SF Wally Szczerbiak / Quentin Richardson / Wilson Chandler
C Kwame Brown / Jared Jeffries / Jerome James
SG Jamal Crawford / O.J. Mayo / Mardy Collins
PG Jason Terry / Nate Robinson / Sean Singletary

I'd have no qualms in saying this would probably be a lottery team next year, but there's also no doubt in my mind that it would be a great improvement over the Isiah & Larry Brown era. They would play an exciting brand of uptempo basketball that would at least excite the fans and provide some optimism for the future. I think its a decent start in year one of rebuilding the New York Knicks.

[Dat2U]

One move that gets Milwaukee back into the playoff race in the East next year:

Miami receives:
PG Maurice Williams
PF Charlie Villanueva
SF Desmond Mason

Milwaukee receives:
SF Shawn Marion

Either draft a PG with their lottery pick or pick one up as a stopgap in FA.

New lineup:

PF Yi Jianlian > Kevin Love (R)
SF Shawn Marion > Bobby Simmons
C Andrew Bogut > Dan Gadzuric
SG Michael Redd > Charlie Bell
PG Delonte West (FA-MLE) > Chris Duhon (FA-LLE)

[nate33]

Riley would be an absolute fool to make that deal.