Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III)

[no D in Hibachi]

Anyone else think Francisoc Garcia would fit in nicely as a guard next to Arenas? He plays good defense, he's a pretty decent shooter, and he handles the ball well. He's Salmons-lite.

Who would you trade for him? At this point I'd prefer N1 because numbers indicate that he's a good defender and when he's given an actual opportunity to play he produces, i.e. coach doesn't pull him if he misses his first shot.

[miller31time]

Garcia has the tools to be a good player but he lacks any sort of consistency which worries me considering he's been in the league long enough to establish it.

[Silvie Lysandra]

Why is Don Nelson considered a good coach?

He has a lot of wins, but a lot of losses too.

He's never had playoff success.

He runs a great offensive system, but again, little playoff success.

He cares about defense less than Eddie Jordan.

His most successful teams had a crapload of talent (Dallas with Dirk/Nash/prime Finley) but those never won until Avery got there.

He's run teams into the ground with egomania (Warriors twice lol)

I don't know what influence he had on that current roster, but it's an absolute mess - they literally have 3 tweener SG/SFs starting for them.

I guess the EFJ experience has made me look askance on every run and gun no defense coach under the sun, but iirc he's been mentioned as a HoF coach and I just don't see it.

[no D in Hibachi]

Hey I was wondering what you guys think will happen with Marion this off-season. Will there be much of a market for him? Which teams might go after him? Will he get the MLE, more or less?

[LyricalRico]

Hey I was wondering what you guys think will happen with Marion this off-season. Will there be much of a market for him? Which teams might go after him? Will he get the MLE, more or less?

I think this is the wrong offseason for Marion to be a free agent. He's coming off two down years, he's over 30, and the cap will probably shrink. Guys like Iverson, Odom, and Boozer (if he opts out) that will probably take up the big dollars and then you have a guy like Trevor Ariza who does what Marion does and will have a much smaller asking price.

And it's not like he can sign a one year deal on the cheap and then hope to make a splash in 2010 because the talent pool will be even deeper. I wouldn't be surprised if Marion signs a full MLE deal with a contender like Cleveland, Utah (if they don't re-sign Boozer), or even the Spurs (if they are willing to pay the luxury tax). That would be a huge steal IMO.

[BigA]

<snip>Guys like Iverson, Odom, and Boozer (if he opts out) that will probably take up the big dollars...<snip>

Who do you think will be interested in Iverson and how much will he be offered?

[miller31time]

So considering we're over the luxury tax, we can't throw the MLE at him. Damn. Is there any way we can position ourselves under the luxtax? He'd fit in perfectly in our system.

[TheSecretWeapon]

So considering we're over the luxury tax, we can't throw the MLE at him. Damn. Is there any way we can position ourselves under the luxtax? He'd fit in perfectly in our system.

There's no rule preventing a team from using the MLE if they're going to exceed the luxury tax.

[LyricalRico]

<snip>Guys like Iverson, Odom, and Boozer (if he opts out) that will probably take up the big dollars...<snip>

Who do you think will be interested in Iverson and how much will he be offered?

Places he could get more than the MLE:

- Atlanta could go after him in the $8-10M range to replace Bibby if they don't get beyond the first round this year.
- LA Clippers maybe in a sign-and-trade for Kaman if they can also move Baron Davis?

Places that would be interested at the MLE:
- Charlotte might want to re-unite AI with LB and generate some buzz
- Dallas would probably be desperate to do something
- Indiana Pacers, depending on what else they do

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's going to be in high demand league-wide. But I think every team I listed would rather have Iverson than Marion.

[miller31time]

So considering we're over the luxury tax, we can't throw the MLE at him. Damn. Is there any way we can position ourselves under the luxtax? He'd fit in perfectly in our system.

There's no rule preventing a team from using the MLE if they're going to exceed the luxury tax.

Not if they're going to exceed it but if they are already over it.

But if your point still stands, then my bad. I could have sworn there was a rule saying that.

[jimij]

I think Isaiah proved in NY many, many times that you could pay the MLE when you were over the cap. Jared Jeffries anyone?

[miller31time]

I think Isaiah proved in NY many, many times that you could pay the MLE when you were over the cap. Jared Jeffries anyone?

Good point.

In that case, I say we sign Marion to the MLE, trade Blatche and Songaila or Stevenson (along with a 2nd rounder or something) for expirings, draft a shooting guard (assuming we don't get the top pick) and go into next season with the following lineup....

Arenas/Crittenton
(Henderson? Evans?)/Young
Butler/Jamison
Marion/Jamison
Haywood/McGee

Obviously, this is a very, very rough plan but that's along the lines of something I'd do. We'd take a hard hit, financially, next season. Then our expiring would come off the books and I think we'd be alright luxury-tax-wise.

*I realize Henderson and Evans should not be picked as early as we'll probably be, so I'd trade down and try to unload even more bad contracts.

[TheSecretWeapon]

So considering we're over the luxury tax, we can't throw the MLE at him. Damn. Is there any way we can position ourselves under the luxtax? He'd fit in perfectly in our system.

There's no rule preventing a team from using the MLE if they're going to exceed the luxury tax.

Not if they're going to exceed it but if they are already over it.

But if your point still stands, then my bad. I could have sworn there was a rule saying that.

The only restriction on using the MLE is that team salary has to be over the salary cap. The luxury tax doesn't stop a team from using it.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Any team that signs Marion, even at the MLE, and expects an above average player is in for a shocker once they see what they actually get. Anybody who gives him more than 2 years at decent money is looking at a pretty bad contract on their hands. His game is so heavily reliant on his legs and as he ages it won't be pretty. He's got lots of miles on him, a poor jumper and has been declining relatively rapidly for the last few seasons.

[miller31time]

Any team that signs Marion, even at the MLE, and expects an above average player is in for a shocker once they see what they actually get. Anybody who gives him more than 2 years at decent money is looking at a pretty bad contract on their hands. His game is so heavily reliant on his legs and as he ages it won't be pretty. He's got lots of miles on him, a poor jumper and has been declining relatively rapidly for the last few seasons.

I wouldn't expect him to be the Marion of 04-05 or anything, but I would expect him to play much better in a high-tempo offense.

[LyricalRico]

Kidd to Cleveland over the summer? Not sure how that would work since they already have Williams, West, and Gibson (and Pavlovic too unless he replaces Wally as the backup SF). I just don't that working out. Places I do see Kidd working out:

- Boston: He'd probably come off the bench but he would solidify their second unit and would likely play big 4th quarter minutes come playoff time.
- Detroit: This would move Stuckey off the ball and give them more leadership. The question is how much does he demand in salary since they have more than the MLE?
- Golden State: Kidd plus a move for a PF makes them a playoff team. No title chances but it would be a homecoming for him.
- Houston: Depends on how much faith they have in Brooks and what happens with Artest.
- Portland: He'd be the mentor/leader they need and could make Oden a real factor.

Of those, I like Detroit the best. If they can both acquire Kidd and retain Sheed for cheap and then use their cap space to trade for a legit big like Kaman, they'd be right back near the top of the East. Stuckey as the third guard might stifle his stats but I think it would be better for the team since he's not a real PG IMO.

Kaman/McDyess
Sheed/Maxiell
Prince/Herrmann
Rip/Stuckey
Kidd/Stuckey

Kidd can mentor Stuckey to help develop his PG skills. Dumars should give Kidd a 2 year deal so that he's out of the picture once it's time to re-up with Stuckey longterm.

[LyricalRico]

Wow, I never thought I'd see the day Iverson quit on a team. He's got his flaws and he's overrated to an extent, but one thing you could never question was his heart. And now he's shutting it down cuz he doesn't want to come off the bench? Very disappointing.

It's actually bodes well for Detroit, though. Now they don't have to worry about what AI is going to do and they can get back to playing Pistons basketball. I think they will be a tough out in the playoffs, even moreso without Iverson.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think Iverson's just discouraged. He can't help that team. Detroit did better without him but with Rip starting. So has Denver with Billups. So has Philly with Andre Miller.

Dumars traded for him IMO more with thinking of moving Stuckey in and losing AI's salary. At best Iverson was a one-year rental.

I think Iverson seriously considers retirement, barring some offer to play for the Lakers, Spurs, or Celtics next season just to make a run at the title.

Just a thought: Iverson at the MLE for the Wizards .... He knows it's Gil's team, but AI can still score and the Wizards could use a shooting guard ...

EDITED: Orlando makes a ton of sense for AI. They've got Howard and a ton of perimeter shooters. He can still compete at PG against Nelson and Alston.

[LyricalRico]

I think Iverson seriously considers retirement, barring some offer to play for the Lakers, Spurs, or Celtics next season just to make a run at the title.

I think we'll see reports about him considering it but in the end he'll sign somewhere. No way he lets himself go out like this. But if it doesn't work out immediately, I think he could retire with years left on whatever deal he gets in the offseason.

One place he could turn to would be Charlotte. He had his biggest success playing for Larry Brown and they could use a star. Guys like Wallace, Bell, Diaw, Radman, and even Okafor are all complimentary 3rd or 4th option players offensively so I don't see him having the problems he had with guys like Melo and Rip. And Diaw's playmaking ability will allow Iverson to spend a lot of time off the ball. All they'd need to do is draft a swingman.

Okafor/Diop
Diaw/Radman
Wallace/Budinger(?)
Bell/Budinger(?)
Iverson/Augustin

Give LB an entire offseason with that group and I think you'll see them make the playoffs next year. Heck, they actually look somewhat like the Wizards if you think about it.

[miller31time]

Ginobili out for the rest of the season and playoffs. Ouch.