Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III)

[LyricalRico]

Yes, and I think LR would (after seeing your post) agree Popovich has not run them in the ground.

Never!

Maybe "running into the ground" was the wrong choice of words. But I think you have to acknowledge that saying somebody is playing too many minutes is relative. Just because somebody plays less minutes than somebody else doesn't mean that they aren't still playing too many minutes for them. Manu plays both sides of the ball like a wild man and Duncan is typically pounding against the other team's best big on defense whille fighting double teams on offense. In thier cases 34 minutes could still be too much.

I'm just saying, if they had better second and third options they could afford to play their guys even less. Even if it's not every game. Maybe it's taking off back-to-back's every so often or being able to sit a few extra minutes against a bad team. All of that can add up to being healthier come playoff time. If you asked Pop if he'd rather have Manu out for the playoffs or having a quality backup 2/3 who took some of Manu's minutes during the season and prevented the stress fracture, which do you think he would pick?

[TheSecretWeapon]

Rico -- What you're talking about is unrealistic. The Spurs finding a backup who's almost as good as Duncan is not going to happen. Same with Parker. Same with Ginobili. I think Popovich has done a marvelous job of shaving minutes here and there, even sacrificing some regular season wins to give these guys more years on the back end of their careers.

The Ginobili thing is a false choice. How few minutes should he be playing? He got only 26.8 minutes per game this season. Roger Mason is getting 30. Michael Finley is getting 28.7. There's only so much a coach can protect a guy. At some point, he has to play.

[LyricalRico]

The Ginobili thing is a false choice. How few minutes should he be playing? He got only 26.8 minutes per game this season.

Sorry, I didn't realize his minutes were already so low. Point conceded.

[fugop]

The Heat's lineup tonight is terrible offensively: Wade--Chalmers--Diawara--Moon--O'Neal.

[lupin]

The Ginobili thing is a false choice. How few minutes should he be playing? He got only 26.8 minutes per game this season.

Sorry, I didn't realize his minutes were already so low. Point conceded.

LR conceded a point. HoF post!

[LyricalRico]

^ I knew I'd get a HOF post one way or another!

[nate33]

San Antonio Trades:
Bruce Bowen ($4M half of which is guaranteed)
Fabricio Oberto ($3.8M half of which is guaranteed)
Michael Finley ($2.5M)
$3M cash
rights to Tiago Splitter

Washington Trades:
Antawn Jamison ($11.6M)

Washington buys out Finley for $1M (and he resigns with San Antonio for $1.5M)
Washington cuts Oberto (and eats $1.9M in guaranteed money)
Washington cuts Bowen (and eats $2M in guaranteed money)

Jamison is off the books and it only cost Abe $1.9M in cash outlay. We'd be carrying $4.4M in phantom cap holds though the remainder of the season, but that's not enough to put us over the luxtax.

None of this would be possible unless the Wizards first bought out Etan and James to generate the roster slots. Let's say they're bought out for $1M less than their contracts are worth. The Wizards would be WAY under the luxtax with a lean and mean roster:

PG Arenas/Crittenton
SG Young/Stevenson
SF Butler/DMac
PF Blatche/Songaila/Pecherov
C Haywood/McGee

Additional assets: Top 4 pick, #33 pick, Rights to Splitter

[closg00]

San Antonio Trades:
Bruce Bowen ($4M half of which is guaranteed)
Fabricio Oberto ($3.8M half of which is guaranteed)
Michael Finley ($2.5M)
$3M cash
rights to Tiago Splitter

Washington Trades:
Antawn Jamison ($11.6M)

Washington buys out Finley for $1M (and he resigns with San Antonio for $1.5M)
Washington cuts Oberto (and eats $1.9M in guaranteed money)
Washington cuts Bowen (and eats $2M in guaranteed money)

Jamison is off the books and it only cost Abe $1.9M in cash outlay. We'd be carrying $4.4M in phantom cap holds though the remainder of the season, but that's not enough to put us over the luxtax.

None of this would be possible unless the Wizards first bought out Etan and James to generate the roster slots. Let's say they're bought out for $1M less than their contracts are worth. The Wizards would be WAY under the luxtax with a lean and mean roster:

PG Arenas/Crittenton
SG Young/Stevenson
SF Butler/DMac
PF Blatche/Songaila/Pecherov
C Haywood/McGee

Additional assets: Top 4 pick, #33 pick, Rights to Splitter

No-way they give up Splitter for AJ, No-way. SA is already wearing-down, they need youth & Splitter is a stud.

[LyricalRico]

^ From what I've read Splitter might not ever come over so I don't think he should be a deal breaker for either team. I'd rather have a 2010 first round pick and the Spurs would probably be agreeable to that.

The real question is will the Spurs want to put themselves on the hook for luxury tax payments in the last two years of Jamison's deal. They already have depth problems. If the tax threshold actually falls as far as some think, they'll be way over for the last two years of Jamison's deal (assuming they re-sign Manu).

[fugop]

To state the obvious, if 20+ teams are paying the luxury tax, the arrangement will be changed. There's no way owners would tolerate that much of a subsidy, basically, to rebuilding teams.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

San Antonio Trades:
Bruce Bowen ($4M half of which is guaranteed)
Fabricio Oberto ($3.8M half of which is guaranteed)
Michael Finley ($2.5M)
$3M cash
rights to Tiago Splitter

Washington Trades:
Antawn Jamison ($11.6M)

Washington buys out Finley for $1M (and he resigns with San Antonio for $1.5M)
Washington cuts Oberto (and eats $1.9M in guaranteed money)
Washington cuts Bowen (and eats $2M in guaranteed money)

Jamison is off the books and it only cost Abe $1.9M in cash outlay. We'd be carrying $4.4M in phantom cap holds though the remainder of the season, but that's not enough to put us over the luxtax.

None of this would be possible unless the Wizards first bought out Etan and James to generate the roster slots. Let's say they're bought out for $1M less than their contracts are worth. The Wizards would be WAY under the luxtax with a lean and mean roster:

PG Arenas/Crittenton
SG Young/Stevenson
SF Butler/DMac
PF Blatche/Songaila/Pecherov
C Haywood/McGee

Additional assets: Top 4 pick, #33 pick, Rights to Splitter

Deal as far as I'm concerned.

If Splitter's the sticking point, why not just get the rights to James Gist plus a SA round 2 pick (basically a camp invite who'd probably get cut). The Spurs drafted Gist. They wanted Mason before he came to the Wizards. I trust their scouts. Gist is about the same size as Jamison and was a real decent defender and a great athlete at UMCP.

What do you think?

[LyricalRico]

I wouldn't do Gist and a low SA second. It would have to be Gist and a 2010 first.

[nate33]

No-way they give up Splitter for AJ, No-way. SA is already wearing-down, they need youth & Splitter is a stud.

My thinking isn't that they need youth. What they need is more top shelf talent since Duncan, Ginobili and Parker are getting too old to carry the load. This gives them one more stud player and they give up absolutely nothing. They can even sign Bowen and Finley back if they want to.

It doesn't hurt their luxtax situation much either. They might creep over the luxtax next year, but it's clear sailing after that. That's not much to pay in order to put together one last title run. The only real drawback is that it eliminates any possibility of a major free agent acquisition in 2010.

I think it's a good deal for San Antonio. The real question is if it's the best deal. They might be better off trading Splitter and 2010 expirings for guys like Carter and Rasheed Wallace.

[Dat2U]

Rico -- What you're talking about is unrealistic. The Spurs finding a backup who's almost as good as Duncan is not going to happen. Same with Parker. Same with Ginobili. I think Popovich has done a marvelous job of shaving minutes here and there, even sacrificing some regular season wins to give these guys more years on the back end of their careers.

The Ginobili thing is a false choice. How few minutes should he be playing? He got only 26.8 minutes per game this season. Roger Mason is getting 30. Michael Finley is getting 28.7. There's only so much a coach can protect a guy. At some point, he has to play.

What doomed Ginobili was not the minutes he got in San Antonio. It was all the additional wear and tear he got this past summer playing for Argentina in the Olympics.

In fact, its seems like the body simply wasn't made to play competitive basketball for 11 out of 12 months of the year. You need time to rest and recuperate and at Ginobili's age and penchant for being a bit fragile, it seems like it was only natural that he'd break down at some point.

[LyricalRico]

^ Okay, I was wrong. Can we move on? Sheesh!

[TheSecretWeapon]

Rico -- What you're talking about is unrealistic. The Spurs finding a backup who's almost as good as Duncan is not going to happen. Same with Parker. Same with Ginobili. I think Popovich has done a marvelous job of shaving minutes here and there, even sacrificing some regular season wins to give these guys more years on the back end of their careers.

The Ginobili thing is a false choice. How few minutes should he be playing? He got only 26.8 minutes per game this season. Roger Mason is getting 30. Michael Finley is getting 28.7. There's only so much a coach can protect a guy. At some point, he has to play.

What doomed Ginobili was not the minutes he got in San Antonio. It was all the additional wear and tear he got this past summer playing for Argentina in the Olympics.

In fact, its seems like the body simply wasn't made to play competitive basketball for 11 out of 12 months of the year. You need time to rest and recuperate and at Ginobili's age and penchant for being a bit fragile, it seems like it was only natural that he'd break down at some point.

My man Kevin Pelton took a look at the claim that guys who play international ball are more likely to be injured the following NBA season. His study used a pretty small sample size, but didn't find such an injury effect. http://www.82games.com/pelton25.htm

[LyricalRico]

So Shaq wants to play for Cuban, eh? Without looking at the numbers, I'm pretty sure that Howard+Stack+Williams for Shaq would work under the 125% rule. From the Mavs perspective, it's pretty much Howard for Shaq, which could be something they do if they also used their MLE on a guy like Ariza. They might even get Kidd to stay.

Shaq/Dampier
Nowitzki/Bass(?)
Ariza/George
Wright/Terry
Kidd/Barea

They'd be WAY over the luxury tax but their gains in size and defense would put them back into contention in the West IMO.

Phoenix gets a guy in Stack they can waive for immediate savings and Howard becomes their starting SF. If they don't like him, they can decline his option for 2010-11 and essentially make him an expiring contract.

[closg00]

Why should a team try to get into position to draft Thabeet when Sene was there in the D-League waiting to be plucked? That's exactly what the Knicks did and they won't have to pay him lotto money. Sene at-least can block shots at decent clip just like Thabeet.
http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... amed_sene/

[toughjuice03]

Kings Locked In On Eddie Jordan?
More Kings News



Apr 09, 2009 6:44 PM EST

Multiple sources say the Kings have all but eliminated the possibility of retaining interim coach Kenny Natt and have targeted Eddie Jordan to replace him.

Ettore Messina and David Blatt also have been mentioned as possibilities, but multiple league sources say the Kings are locked on Jordan.

It will be good for him to go back where he started his NBA coaching career.


I think it would be good for him to go back to Sacramento and I wish him nothing but luck. And please don't hesitate to merge if necessary.

[fishercob]

IBTM: Discussing Other Teams' Moves...