Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III)

[LyricalRico]

^ If Shaq sits midway through the first period, say after 7-8 minutes, then when Paul and West come out early in the second he'll be ready to check back in. Even if it's only for a 2-3 minute stretch it could still be beneficial. If they get another 2-3 minute stretch in the second half then that's about 6 minutes per game where the Hornets would otherwise have zero offensive options. That's gotta help, especially in the playoffs.

[pancakes3]

i wonder who the hornets think they could nab in free agency in 2010. if they deal Peja, they'll have 33 million dollars spread between Richard jefferson, roger mason, and chris bosh?

[closg00]

MJ selected Adam Morrison with his 3rd pick over Brandon Roy 6th, Randy Foye 7th, and Rudy Gay 8th. I wonder what he'll do this year.

[LyricalRico]

:lol: MJ selected Adam Morrison with his 3rd pick over Brandon Roy 6th, Randy Foye 7th, and Rudy Gay 8th. I wonder what he'll do this year.

And he completely whiffed on Pecherov! Oh wait, that was us...

[LyricalRico]

If the Pistons are going to rebuild and add a young, elite-level forward, they may not be able to go the free-agent route. It might have to come through a trade, and if that's the case, the most valuable chip other than picks is Prince.

Prince has two years and about $25.1 million left on his contract, far from unmovable. The Raptors have shown interest just as the Pistons have barely hid their interest in forward Chris Bosh. Nobody is saying that will happen. But Prince is no longer untouchable.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090423 ... 1127/rss13

Interesting. He's not saying it's on the table but I wonder how Toronto would feel about Prince+#15+future1st for Bosh+Kapono+Banks? They don't get a star in the deal but It would do wonders for Toronto's cap. Not sure where they go from there, though.

Detroit gets the big man they need, plus some over-paid depth. It should be enough to convince McDyess to re-sign.

Kwame/McDyess
Bosh/Maxiell
Kapono/Herrmann
Hamilton/Afflalo
Stuckey/Bynum/Banks

That's a very good team in the East, with room to grow as Stuckey gets better.

[LyricalRico]

Well, the offseason has officially begun for the Pistons. Here's on writer's take:

A big man who can score in the paint, more athleticism on the perimeter, a shooter and a veteran backup point guard are all on the Pistons' radar for the June 25 NBA draft and the free-agency period that begins July 1.

It's a safe bet there will be a major roster overhaul for next season.

Of the core group, only Rodney Stuckey, Richard Hamilton, Arron Afflalo, Will Bynum, Kwame Brown and Jason Maxiell appear likely to return.

I imagined they'd let Sheed and McDyess walk, but I'm somewhat surprised to see that Prince might not be in their longterm plans. He's a very attractive trade piece IMO. Assuming they sign Boozer with their cap space, here are some Prince deals I think could make sense for them:

- Prince for Kaman: gives the Clippers a defender and gives the Pistons a legit C
- Prince for Chandler: saves NOH about $2M per year while giving them a good player, maybe they also make DET take back James Posey's contract
- Prince for Spurs expirings: not sure how the Spurs can sweeten it
- Prince for Blake+Outlaw: gives DET a vet backup PG and a versatile forward while getting even more cap space, POR gets a reliable defensive SF with playoff experience
- Prince+24 for Kapono+9: gives DET a shooter, more cap space, and a higher pick; TOR gets a quality SF without adding too much salary
- Prince for Shaq: could work of the Pistons don't get Boozer

I actually like the idea of Prince for Chandler+Posey after signing Boozer. Follow that up by sending Amir Johnson and Afflalo to OKC for Earl Watson and they're set.

Chandler/Kwame
Boozer/Maxiell
Posey/Sharpe
Hamilton/#24
Stuckey/Watson

They do that and they are officially back in the East. There's probably a little concern about Posey playing starter's minutes but maybe they can pickup a cheap vet like Barnes who can take some of the load off.

[nate33]

I don't understand why they would trade Prince. I understand his trade value is highest, but that's also why they should keep him. He's good, young, durable, and signed to a reasonable deal.

Rip is the guy they should trade. They won't get much in return because of his huge contract, but they can get him off the books and rebuild around Prince, Stuckey, a free agent acquisition, their pick, and the other youngsters.

Could they trade Rip + #15 for Kaman? Do that. Sign Millsap. Then dangle their remaining $5M or so in raw cap space to see what they can get in return. Maybe they can get a pick in the 9-14 range and draft a SG. Or maybe they can help Chicago get under the tax by trading Kwame for Hinrich or Salmons.

PG Stuckey
SG Salmons/Afflalo
SF Prince
PF Millsap/Maxiell
C Kaman/Amir

[LyricalRico]

I don't understand why they would trade Prince. I understand his trade value is highest, but that's also why they should keep him. He's good, young, durable, and signed to a reasonable deal.

Rip is the guy they should trade. They won't get much in return because of his huge contract, but they can get him off the books and rebuild around Prince, Stuckey, a free agent acquisition, their pick, and the other youngsters.

Could they trade Rip + #15 for Kaman? Do that. Sign Millsap. Then dangle their remaining $5M or so in raw cap space to see what they can get in return. Maybe they can get a pick in the 9-14 range and draft a SG. Or maybe they can help Chicago get under the tax by trading Kwame for Hinrich or Salmons.

PG Stuckey
SG Salmons/Afflalo
SF Prince
PF Millsap/Maxiell
C Kaman/Amir

Honestly, I don't see that lineup striking fear into the hearts of anybody. Great on the boards and solid defensively, but no bench to speak of nobody who they can depend on to get a bucket when they need one. I don't see anybody in the lineup that I would expect to score 20ppg and I would expect them to have extended scoring droughts on an almost per game basis.

Swap out Prince and put in a guy like Paul Pierce and all of a sudden that team looks really good. But without that first option scorer I would expect to win around 35 games, and that's assuming elite defense every night.

[nate33]

I don't understand why they would trade Prince. I understand his trade value is highest, but that's also why they should keep him. He's good, young, durable, and signed to a reasonable deal.

Rip is the guy they should trade. They won't get much in return because of his huge contract, but they can get him off the books and rebuild around Prince, Stuckey, a free agent acquisition, their pick, and the other youngsters.

Could they trade Rip + #15 for Kaman? Do that. Sign Millsap. Then dangle their remaining $5M or so in raw cap space to see what they can get in return. Maybe they can get a pick in the 9-14 range and draft a SG. Or maybe they can help Chicago get under the tax by trading Kwame for Hinrich or Salmons.

PG Stuckey
SG Salmons/Afflalo
SF Prince
PF Millsap/Maxiell
C Kaman/Amir

Honestly, I don't see that lineup striking fear into the hearts of anybody. Great on the boards and solid defensively, but no bench to speak of nobody who they can depend on to get a bucket when they need one. I don't see anybody in the lineup that I would expect to score 20ppg and I would expect them to have extended scoring droughts on an almost per game basis.

Swap out Prince and put in a guy like Paul Pierce and all of a sudden that team looks really good. But without that first option scorer I would expect to win around 35 games, and that's assuming elite defense every night.

I don't think they're a championship contender, but they're a .500 ballclub with an extremely cheap payroll. They can fill out their bench with good picks and MLE free agents. That team is as good as Atlanta or Philly. Everybody in the starting 5 is a two-way player.

But you raise a valid point that there isn't a #1 option on that team. #1 options are real hard to find. I suppose that's the argument for trading Prince plus incentive for Bosh. But even if they pulled that off, they'd be left with a team that looks a lot like the Raptors: Bosh plus a bunch of marginal players.

Detroit is in an unusual position. Dumars has done a nice job of finding talent in the middle of the draft and he has kept the payroll under control. With that foundation, they should remain decent for years to come. Unfortunately, they're not bad enough to get a high pick and it's going to be pretty hard to attract a superstar caliber free agent to the godawful city of Detroit.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't understand why they would trade Prince. I understand his trade value is highest, but that's also why they should keep him. He's good, young, durable, and signed to a reasonable deal.

Rip is the guy they should trade. They won't get much in return because of his huge contract, but they can get him off the books and rebuild around Prince, Stuckey, a free agent acquisition, their pick, and the other youngsters.

Could they trade Rip + #15 for Kaman? Do that. Sign Millsap. Then dangle their remaining $5M or so in raw cap space to see what they can get in return. Maybe they can get a pick in the 9-14 range and draft a SG. Or maybe they can help Chicago get under the tax by trading Kwame for Hinrich or Salmons.

PG Stuckey
SG Salmons/Afflalo
SF Prince
PF Millsap/Maxiell
C Kaman/Amir

I agree with the keep Prince part, but I have a pretty different take on the Pistons, nate.

I think Rip and Prince are proven winners. Curry IMO is the weak link. That team needs a better coach IMO. Rip stated he wanted to remain a Piston and I think he's a better than average player who they should keep. I don't think Rip's the problem at all. He's gotten better as a passer and he's expanded his three point range. He's still a deadly midrange shooter. Like Reggie Miller, Rip's a guy who defenses have to honor. I'd keep both Tayshaun and Rip, just because. Sheed and Ben got old. Iverson was a cap dump bad fit. Don't toss out two winners IMO.

The guy who is not as good as I thought he'd be is Rodney Stuckey. Stuckey at times played better than Iverson or Hamilton, but in the final analysis, the Pistons were worse with him on the court. Stuckey was a bigtime college scorer at a small school. He's got a great physique and can distribute and finish at the rim. But his weakness is he's got no outside shot at all. HOWEVER, history involving guys like Hamilton and Devin Harris has taught me that two seasons is too soon to judge Stuckey. So, I'd keep him, too.

nate, I think the Piston should go after Millsap for sure. Maybe even Boozer if he opts out. Kaman WOULD BE a good addition for them but I don't see trading Rip to the Clippers at all. Even Dumars, the guy who sent Chauncey packing wouldn't do that. Kaman would help the Pistons, no doubt. I just don't see trading for him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If Prince wants out, then this is the kind of deal I think would be good for Detroit:

Pistons send SF Prince, PF Walter Sharpe, and SG Aaron Afflalo to Golden State for SF Steven Jackson, PF Brandon Wright, and SG Marco Belinelli

This gives the Pistons talent that Don Nelson's badly misusing. Wright projects to be a stud PF/SF, but he's battling Anthony Randolph for minutes, and he might lose that battle. Biedrins and Turiaf make big bucks. I see Wright at the odd man out relative to where he was drafted. Doesn't mean he's not the best of that bunch, however. I think he could be. Steven Jackson's a thug perhaps, but dude's a competitive player. The Pistons lacked fire from Prince. Captain Jack is fiery. For good and bad, but I think he'd be proud to be a Piston. (Yeah, I remember he and Artest aren't too popular in Detroit!) Last, Belinelli was the other guy besides Stuckey (and for me the huge mancrush on Morris Almond) that I wanted instead of Nick Young on draft night. I still think the guy has game. Pistons would, too.

I think for the Warriors, Prince would be a guy who defends, has no ego and needs few shots, that would give a frenetic-paced team some credibility. GS would welcome his winning background. I think the Warriors give up talent, but gain expertise in winning. They have some real talented young players in CJ Watson, Anthony Morrow, and Anthony Randolph. Prince would make that team legitimately a playoff contender.

That's the kind of trade I could see working for Detroit and GS.

[nate33]

I think Rip and Prince are proven winners. Curry IMO is the weak link. That team needs a better coach IMO. Rip stated he wanted to remain a Piston and I think he's a better than average player who they should keep. I don't think Rip's the problem at all. He's gotten better as a passer and he's expanded his three point range. He's still a deadly midrange shooter. Like Reggie Miller, Rip's a guy who defenses have to honor. I'd keep both Tayshaun and Rip, just because. Sheed and Ben got old. Iverson was a cap dump bad fit. Don't toss out two winners IMO.

The guy who is not as good as I thought he'd be is Rodney Stuckey. Stuckey at times played better than Iverson or Hamilton, but in the final analysis, the Pistons were worse with him on the court. Stuckey was a bigtime college scorer at a small school. He's got a great physique and can distribute and finish at the rim. But his weakness is he's got no outside shot at all. HOWEVER, history involving guys like Hamilton and Devin Harris has taught me that two seasons is too soon to judge Stuckey. So, I'd keep him, too.

nate, I think the Piston should go after Millsap for sure. Maybe even Boozer if he opts out. Kaman WOULD BE a good addition for them but I don't see trading Rip to the Clippers at all. Even Dumars, the guy who sent Chauncey packing wouldn't do that. Kaman would help the Pistons, no doubt. I just don't see trading for him.

I think Rip is a good player too, but I don't see the point in rebuilding around an above-average (but not great) 31-year-old SG with a lot of miles on him. Detroit should trade him before his trading value becomes negative (if it isn't already). Kaman is 4 years younger and a foundation to build on. He's no superstar either, but if you have him in the paint, you don't have to worry about the center position for another 6 or 7 years.

You know who else might fit? Ben Gordon. They might have enough cap room for Gordon and Millsap. Gordon isn't necessarily a 1st option scorer for 35 minutes a game, but he has proven to be a clutch scorer who can carry his team down the stretch. Stuckey has the size to defend SG's, which would help hide Gordon defensively.

That would leave them with:

PG Stuckey
SG Gordon
SF Prince
PF MIllsap
C Kaman

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I love the idea of Gordon for the Pistons, nate. The Bulls need to match any reasonable offer for him, because as you said he's clutch as clutch can be.

[fishercob]

I love the idea of Gordon for the Pistons, nate. The Bulls need to match any reasonable offer for him, because as you said he's clutch as clutch can be.

I think they'll regret overpaying for him, because it'll limit their flexibility to improve in the future That's Rose's team.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I love the idea of Gordon for the Pistons, nate. The Bulls need to match any reasonable offer for him, because as you said he's clutch as clutch can be.

I think they'll regret overpaying for him, because it'll limit their flexibility to improve in the future That's Rose's team.

I did say any reasonable offer. I agree with you 100% that the Bulls are Rose's team. Actually, fisher, I see your point. With Kirk on their books I guess the question is how do they keep Gordon and keep their options open. I also think the Bulls have a couple other talented young guys already in Noah and Ty Thomas that will be there for years to come. Deng was a good player for them and should be again next season.

They'll need to resign at least those three and maybe keep Salmons, in addition to getting a low post scoring big..... Hey, what about Eddy Curry? ... Oops, they tried that before Curry allegedly started sexually harassing his male chaueffeur.

Seriously, I think a trade of Hinrich for Curry might make some sense.

Another thought: I haven't really read this thread thoroughly the past few days, so forgive me if this idea's already been tossed out there: Etan, DeShawn, and/or Blatche to the Bulls for something like Hinrich and Gray.

[floppymoose]

Pistons send SF Prince, PF Walter Sharpe, and SG Aaron Afflalo to Golden State for SF Steven Jackson, PF Brandon Wright, and SG Marco Belinelli

I love that trade for the Warriors.

Biedrins and Turiaf make big bucks.

Turiaf makes very small bucks for a veteran big. He's one of the few players on the Warriors who are not on a rookie contract but still have positive trade value. Biedrins makes 9 mill a year with no raises. It's also a good contract for the Warriors.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Pistons send SF Prince, PF Walter Sharpe, and SG Aaron Afflalo to Golden State for SF Steven Jackson, PF Brandon Wright, and SG Marco Belinelli

I love that trade for the Warriors.

Biedrins and Turiaf make big bucks.

Turiaf makes very small bucks for a veteran big. He's one of the few players on the Warriors who are not on a rookie contract but still have positive trade value. Biedrins makes 9 mill a year with no raises. It's also a good contract for the Warriors.

floppymoose, coming from a guy with 27,000 posts, your endorsement nullifies all the flames I got from some others regarding how GS makes out in the trade forum on this deal. Thanks.

[LyricalRico]

^ SJax will never be traded to Detroit because of the brawl.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Couple interesting stories from the Euroleague that Realgm wiretap captured:

JCN won the Euroleague MVP.

Juan Carlos Navarro returned to Europe this season and became the Euroleague MVP for Regal FC Barcelona.

Remember that guy? Juan Carlos Navarro, La Bamba. We posted about him becoming a Wizard for two or three years, before EG traded his rights for a draft pick from Memphis that he later traded right back to Memphis for Crittenton. (Traded Navararro for Crittenton, essentially).

Seems to me Navarro is better than Dixon, Crittenton or James. He just got to Memphis in time to see Pau Gasol get traded and before Mayo and another good Gasol got on the scene. Good for him to go back where he could succeed. Even though the Wizards could surely have used him this season with Gilbert out.

ANOTHER THOUGHT: Lots of folks have their hopes up about another Spanish player who didn't win MVP in the same league.

The other story is about the guy I just KNEW would be great in the NBA. Sarunas Jasikevicius.

Panathinaikos Takes Euroleague Title

Dimitris Diamantidis and Sarunas Jasikevicius made three free throws in the final 10.4 seconds for Panathinaikos to secure the victory

Why the heck does he win all over the world and give the US teams fits when he plays with Lithuania, yet can't cut it in the NBA? I would think Sarunas could have played for the Wizards along with his countryman Songaila and at least made a good contribution as a serviceable role player.

That said, Roony was smart to go back to Europe where his team won the title.

Final thought: How did Ricky's team do?

[closg00]

Steve Blake's contract is up this year. Who wants to bet that this is the year Portland will use their stock-pile of talent to try and trade for Rubio? I bet they even would include Bayless. Blake will not be re-upped by Portland.