Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I am simply underwhelmed and almost devastated that guys like Jefferson, Carter, and Shaq all went for less than what the Wizards sent to get Foye and Miller on one-year rentals.

One thing I think you have to also consider is that perhaps these are reactionary deals. If Cleveland doesn't get Shaq, does Orlando even pick up the phone to inquire about Carter? And if NJ doesn't see the Wiz and Hawks adding pieces, do they even decide to blow it up and make Carter available? And if those teams are making reactions, then so can we.

And then there's the possibility that Hedo is seeking the max and they don't want to give it to him. So they are essentially trading Turkgolu for Carter, which is another thing altogether. Even if they do keep Hedo, it could always end up being a chemistry disaster (which is why some on this board didn't want Carter in the first place).

Let's just stay calm and see how things play out.

I agree there are reactionary deals going down, LR. But like nate said, EG blew his wad way early. We've known forever he wanted to trade the pick and it's like he felt he had to take Miller and Foye. To me this is like drafting for EJ. Flip obviously liked those two bad watching them in Minny. But the Wolves gangstered them, not even giving back the 18.

As for Orlando, LR I also agree that Hedo not returning now (likely) will change that team's chemistry. I can't see them not missing him. Anderson does play the same kinda game but he's not equipped to play G. That said, if Orlando HAD TO replace Hedo that kid Chris Anderson sure does hit threes and he can ball.

Chemistry's on hold in Orlando. Is there any way Hedo can take a one year deal?

[Dat2U]

So lets see...

San Antonio dumps some expiring contracts to get a front line player in Richard Jefferson.

Cleveland dumps some expiring contracrts to get Shaq to pair with LeBron.

Orlando gives Courtney Lee and not much else for VC & Ryan Anderson.

Washington begs someone to take its expiring in Etan Thomas, gives up a #5 and filler for two role players in Miller & Foye.

Anyone see anything wrong with this scenario?

We pay full price for two role players while everyone around us is paying pennies on the dollar for superior talent.

EG basically held a fire sale for the #5. He devalued his own pick by begging anyone to make an offer. And he was set on taking the best offer available even if it was garbage. Word is if the Minny deal hadn't come through, he'd have settled for Hughes & Chandler for Etan, filler & the 5th.

If anyone can tell me that the #5 pick & Etan Thomas is somehow inferior to the likes of Courtney Lee, Rafer Alston, Fabricio Oberto or Ben Wallace please let me know. Because I don't quite understand the excitement among many for this deal. I'm not saying Shaq, RJ or even VC were the best options to go after, but its amazing how little it cost to acquire either of those guys.

[verbal8]

Carter and Ryan Anderson, a very good three point shooter and rebounder at 6'10"; in exchange for Battie, Alston, and Courtney Lee.

(Wizards could have probably offered Etan, James, and Young for Vince).

I think it would have taken the 5th pick to match the potential of Courtney Lee. Maybe Young and Blatche could match Alston.

I think Anderson had to be added to make the later years of VCs contract bearable. He also only shoots 40%.

[yungal07]

Dat2u, you're ignoring the financial aspects of the trade, which was one of the main reasons it was made in the first place. We simply couldn't afford to trade away expirings for players like Carter and Jefferson, who have 2 years left on the their enormous deals (I didn't mention Shaq because I don't really care). It simply wasn't worth going into cap hell for these guys.

[mhd]

Abe didn't want to be pay the luxary tax and we were not getting tied up in 2010 salary. The Magic may let Hedo walk. If they do, I think they actually downgraded. I've never liked Nelson's game.

[LyricalRico]

Carter and Ryan Anderson, a very good three point shooter and rebounder at 6'10"; in exchange for Battie, Alston, and Courtney Lee.

(Wizards could have probably offered Etan, James, and Young for Vince).

I think it would have taken the 5th pick to match the potential of Courtney Lee. Maybe Young and Blatche could match Alston.

I think Anderson had to be added to make the later years of VCs contract bearable. He also only shoots 40%.

I'll agree with this.

It's funny but I remember many here said that VC's deal was WAY too much for the Wizards to take on, and he wasn't what we needed, and there wouldn't be enough balls, blah blah blah. Oh but now that somebody else got him, all of a sudden now he's the guy we should have gotten?

Relax people. The offseason is young. I actually like that the Wiz went after what they wanted instead of waiting to see what everybody else does and then making knee-jerk reactions. And trust that Ernie also sees what's going on and probably still has options where he can counter. Just because it doesn't happen tonight doesn't mean he's asleep at the wheel.

[Wizards2Lottery]

Well **** seems like Amare is now a part of the Golden State Warriors.

Bosh at the trade deadline. Pleaaaaaaaaase.

[Rafael122]

You guys never cease to amaze. This isn't fantasy basketball fellas. You are fooling yourselves if you think Vince Carter was going to come here without the Wizards giving up the 5th pick. It was all about the fifth pick. This whole time. Seriously, look at the big picture. The Wizards were never going to make a trade unless the 5th pick was involved. That was our only ammo.

[mhd]

Amare for Biedrins, Brandon Wright, Bellinelli, and #7.

I don't think we could have upped that offer. Its alot to give up.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

How did Orlando get him without a pick?

When did Lee's potential get higher than Young's?

I think it's totally irrational to say a guy who was just given away to Orlando couldn't have been given away to the Wizards.

[verbal8]

Well **** seems like Amare is now a part of the Golden State Warriors.

Bosh at the trade deadline. Pleaaaaaaaaase.

What I have seen for the Amare deal is just speculation, not a done deal.

[mhd]

How did Orlando get him without a pick?

When did Lee's potential get higher than Young's?

I think it's totally irrational to say a guy who was just given away to Orlando couldn't have been given away to the Wizards.

Simply put, it was Haywood or Carter CCJ. With Carter, it would have been too much money tied up and would have destroyed any financial sense to resign Haywood.

[Rafael122]

How did Orlando get him without a pick?

When did Lee's potential get higher than Young's?

I think it's totally irrational to say a guy who was just given away to Orlando couldn't have been given away to the Wizards.

No, its not totally irrational.

The 5th pick alone pretty much trumps anything Orlando would have given up. Then on top of that, you have to add some decent talent as well?

We weren't getting any of these guys without giving up a draft pick. Oh, and there's this whole thing about playing defense. What, 2 days I have been reading about Miller and Foye not playing any defense? Carter isn't exactly known for his defensive prowess.

[Dat2U]

Damn, some of you are a bunch of whiny babies. Who gives a funk about Vince Carter really? Like we needed more firepower. Vince Carter is on the downside of his career.

So you're saying that Foye, Young, and Mike Miller is better than Vince Carter plus the #5 pick that could be Steph Curry or Rubio with James traded?

JWiz, I'm not a whiny baby. Like badinage, I pretty much bleed for this team.

Geez, eight years ago I didn't like the Kwame drafting. Before that I hated the Ben Wallace for Ike Austin and others deal. I HATED CWebb for Thorpe and Richmond. I said Rip for Stack was wrong. I said don't draft Pecherov, Millsap's better. Said I thought Nick Young was not at all bright on draft night. Even giving Javale an F- was strong, but it ends up (by the same logic used to down Pecherov) that McGee didn't even start for a 19-win team. He WAS terrible defensively, as I said on draft night.

I am simply underwhelmed and almost devastated that guys like Jefferson, Carter, and Shaq all went for less than what the Wizards sent to get Foye and Miller on one-year rentals.

I'm also going to flat out say I think those calling me or others who are really pssed right now whiners are just mad and can't handle legitimately bad news.

Carter's no more on the downside than Allen was before he got traded to Boston, JWiz.

I'm with you. I was wrong about Kwame but I hated both Wallace deals (Sheed & Ben). I cried at the C-Webb deal. The Stack for deal left a bad taste in my mouth. I said Pecherov was a bust waiting to happen (and got blasted for saying it so early). I said Nick Young was a poor man's Jamal Crawford and got blasted for that two. I said McGee was too raw and would be a nightmare on D (though his talent does make him a worthwhile pick - props to EG there). I said AD got too many years on his deal. I said the Songaila signing made no sense. I thoroughly bashed the DeShawn resigning and panned the J-Critt deal.

I've been wrong more than a few times but have been right more often than not just like you CCJ. It's frustrating, were both considered whiners and born complainers on this board but its because we've seen the mistakes made so often. And usually our gut is pretty good at seeing when those mistakes been made.

I've been through that period were I tried to force myself to like a trade b/c my home team made it. It just doesn't work for me.

[eltacoman]

seeing all the teams around us making major moves .... makes me think that we should go after a defensive big ... i know Mcgee and Blatche need time to develop but we want them to compete for there Jobs ... sooo i say... lets get Marcus Camby he would push our young bigs to compete to be the 3rd and 4th big on our squad

RIP Michael Jackson

[Joe_Wiz]

I think Shaq to Cleveland is a good move for them, especially since they didn't give up much for him. But I'd rather have a 2007-8 Ben Wallace and a 2007-8 Big Z than a 2009-2010 Shaq and a 2009-2010 Big Z, so I'm not convinced their big men will be any better this year than what they had a couple of years ago. So, good move, but not a big deal.

VC to Orlando, by contrast, is scary. I don't know how to assess all of the long-term and financial implications, but in terms of winning now, this was a really nice move for them.

As for the Wizards: I wouldn't have wanted Shaq here with our roster and at this stage in his career. VC I'm not sure about. He could have really helped this team, but I think he's a better fit for Orlando (can hit the outside shot like the rest, but adds the ability to drive they needed). When you add in the issues of salary, what we'd have to have given up, etc. -- well, there are reasons it didn't happen.

[LyricalRico]

Okay, the ESPN crew discussing the Carter deal pre-draft makes it sound like Carter is being brought in to replace Turkgolu. That changes everything for me. At first I thought they might just be adding Vince. But if he's replacing Turkgolu, Orlando now has zero depth and could also lose their matchup advantages if they decide to pursue a more traditional PF and move Lewis back to the 3.

[Ji]

Damn, some of you are a bunch of whiny babies. Who gives a funk about Vince Carter really? Like we needed more firepower. Vince Carter is on the downside of his career.

So you're saying that Foye, Young, and Mike Miller is better than Vince Carter plus the #5 pick that could be Steph Curry or Rubio with James traded?

JWiz, I'm not a whiny baby. Like badinage, I pretty much bleed for this team.

Geez, eight years ago I didn't like the Kwame drafting. Before that I hated the Ben Wallace for Ike Austin and others deal. I HATED CWebb for Thorpe and Richmond. I said Rip for Stack was wrong. I said don't draft Pecherov, Millsap's better. Said I thought Nick Young was not at all bright on draft night. Even giving Javale an F- was strong, but it ends up (by the same logic used to down Pecherov) that McGee didn't even start for a 19-win team. He WAS terrible defensively, as I said on draft night.

I am simply underwhelmed and almost devastated that guys like Jefferson, Carter, and Shaq all went for less than what the Wizards sent to get Foye and Miller on one-year rentals.

I'm also going to flat out say I think those calling me or others who are really pssed right now whiners are just mad and can't handle legitimately bad news.

Carter's no more on the downside than Allen was before he got traded to Boston, JWiz.

I'm with you. I was wrong about Kwame but I hated both Wallace deals (Sheed & Ben). I cried at the C-Webb deal. The Stack for deal left a bad taste in my mouth. I said Pecherov was a bust waiting to happen (and got blasted for saying it so early). I said Nick Young was a poor man's Jamal Crawford and got blasted for that two. I said McGee was too raw and would be a nightmare on D (though his talent does make him a worthwhile pick - props to EG there). I said AD got too many years on his deal. I said the Songaila signing made no sense. I thoroughly bashed the DeShawn resigning and panned the J-Critt deal.

I've been wrong more than a few times but have been right more often than not just like you CCJ. It's frustrating, were both considered whiners and born complainers on this board but its because we've seen the mistakes made so often. And usually our gut is pretty good at seeing when those mistakes been made.

I've been through that period were I tried to force myself to like a trade b/c my home team made it. It just doesn't work for me.

you have to be creative and take some risks to get out of that awful 39-46 win cycle...we have done neither and we have been stuck in place for years with not much hope. We need to blow this **** up if we are going to keep doing this.

[mhd]

I think Orlando resigns Gortat, and gets some vets to round out the bench. HOWEVER, they got less athletic in this deal IMO. Lee was a cheap athlete. VC isn't what he once was. I don't trust Jameer at all. He's a downgrade on D.

[Rafael122]

They have no bench. I mean, Orlando's backup is Anthony Johnson.

Out of the teams that made trades in the East, overall, 1-12, we have the most talent.