Yeah but caron regularly gets abused by both these players--(not only is caron not quick and agile in stopping dribble penetration..but he is short and offers no shot blocking ability on perimeter..especially during 2008 playoffs when it counted..and we saw what happened in the playoffs. we have caron signed long term and he was abused so badly we had to put deshawn stevenson and obvioulsy the wizards wound up watching the playoffs on their widescreens the following week. can someone say jeffries on defense.Kanyewest wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Young is pretty skinny and light for his size so he would have a problem with bigger, bulkier 3s like LeBron and Carmelo Anthony. He also hasn't learned how to use his hands and can often be pick up cheap reaching fouls.
Quick Blurb about Nick Young
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WizarDynasty
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pancakes3
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not to antagonize, i'd like to know the reasoning behind this counterintuitive obsession of disregarding "statstuffing" and yet putting such weight to blocks by a perimeter player.
This argument of Eddie Jordan being a terrible defensive player translating to him being a terrible defensive coach and consequently having him fired is the penultimate of fan overreaction.
First off, though i have not personally watched eddie jordan play basketball, there is no statistical evidence that he was a poor player. statistics aside, his rookie year with the nets they were ranked as 2nd overall defensively, 7th overall the year after that, and the following years were with the showtime lakers, which he had a minimal impact on the game. So, as starting point guard, and under 6 foot 2, he was able to lead a team 2nd and then 7th overall on defense does not equate him to being a poor defensive player. maybe a gambler, but a gambler with effective results.
The next argument of the translation of poor play to poor coaching is also flawed. dating back to 1998, the wizards have consistently been in the 20's on defense (except for 2001 where we were dead last), and also in the 20's for offense. Then when Jordan came into the system, we jumped to 10th in 2004-5, 7th in 2005-6 and then 3rd in 2006-7, and this past season with injuries, we slid to 12th. So it is sufficient to say that Jordan is as bad or good as a defensive coach as doug collins, or hamilton, or whichever carousel of coaches we've had in the past 10 years but have upgraded the offense significantly.
to say that a coach's defensive system is a gambler's system is ridiculous. no high school coach much less professional coach would send players out there and just say "go pick the pass off, i don't care." a defensive minded coach simply just spends more time during practice on defense. EJ just chooses to spend more time on offense because he believes it demands more attention especially when there are a lot of new players who do not have a firm grasp of the system. that's why flip saunders in Detroit can step in and upgrade the offense so quickly. the core nucleus of players know the defensive rotations well enough that they do not have to practice it as much; it's second nature. The 'zards however do not have a core of 5 that know the offense as well as the pistons know their defense. There's an addition of caron, haywood splitting time with etan, PG/SG duties shifting from AD to Deshawn, etc. that require consistent offensive drilling that there isn't time to practice defense as much. That just makes improvisational pickpocketing more pronounced when a player steals because the TOs that come off of solid defense compose less of a percentage of the total TOs and so the passing lane snatches are more pronounced.
Plus, if the system was truly gambit-friendly, wing defenders would not double down on lebron when he comes barging into the lane. they would stand between the shooter and lebron, hoping for a lazy kickout and snatch the steal. the problem is that no one on our team is able to take lebron 1 on 1, and not let lebron force his way to the rim, so it dictates a double team, and requires a difficult switch from a perimeter player to go to leave the top of the key to the wings. This almost never works with lebron because he gets to the rim so fast with no wasted movement/ time that he can kick it out before the switch can occur, leaving a wide open opportunity.
i'm not denying that we can improve on defense, but i feel the problem is inflated in some people's views, and that it in the grand scheme of things, has nothing to do with nick young's development. in regards to NY, he should pull a Kobe and go put on 20 lbs of muscle in the off season and be our new 2guard with D-stevey as our 6th man.
This argument of Eddie Jordan being a terrible defensive player translating to him being a terrible defensive coach and consequently having him fired is the penultimate of fan overreaction.
First off, though i have not personally watched eddie jordan play basketball, there is no statistical evidence that he was a poor player. statistics aside, his rookie year with the nets they were ranked as 2nd overall defensively, 7th overall the year after that, and the following years were with the showtime lakers, which he had a minimal impact on the game. So, as starting point guard, and under 6 foot 2, he was able to lead a team 2nd and then 7th overall on defense does not equate him to being a poor defensive player. maybe a gambler, but a gambler with effective results.
The next argument of the translation of poor play to poor coaching is also flawed. dating back to 1998, the wizards have consistently been in the 20's on defense (except for 2001 where we were dead last), and also in the 20's for offense. Then when Jordan came into the system, we jumped to 10th in 2004-5, 7th in 2005-6 and then 3rd in 2006-7, and this past season with injuries, we slid to 12th. So it is sufficient to say that Jordan is as bad or good as a defensive coach as doug collins, or hamilton, or whichever carousel of coaches we've had in the past 10 years but have upgraded the offense significantly.
to say that a coach's defensive system is a gambler's system is ridiculous. no high school coach much less professional coach would send players out there and just say "go pick the pass off, i don't care." a defensive minded coach simply just spends more time during practice on defense. EJ just chooses to spend more time on offense because he believes it demands more attention especially when there are a lot of new players who do not have a firm grasp of the system. that's why flip saunders in Detroit can step in and upgrade the offense so quickly. the core nucleus of players know the defensive rotations well enough that they do not have to practice it as much; it's second nature. The 'zards however do not have a core of 5 that know the offense as well as the pistons know their defense. There's an addition of caron, haywood splitting time with etan, PG/SG duties shifting from AD to Deshawn, etc. that require consistent offensive drilling that there isn't time to practice defense as much. That just makes improvisational pickpocketing more pronounced when a player steals because the TOs that come off of solid defense compose less of a percentage of the total TOs and so the passing lane snatches are more pronounced.
Plus, if the system was truly gambit-friendly, wing defenders would not double down on lebron when he comes barging into the lane. they would stand between the shooter and lebron, hoping for a lazy kickout and snatch the steal. the problem is that no one on our team is able to take lebron 1 on 1, and not let lebron force his way to the rim, so it dictates a double team, and requires a difficult switch from a perimeter player to go to leave the top of the key to the wings. This almost never works with lebron because he gets to the rim so fast with no wasted movement/ time that he can kick it out before the switch can occur, leaving a wide open opportunity.
i'm not denying that we can improve on defense, but i feel the problem is inflated in some people's views, and that it in the grand scheme of things, has nothing to do with nick young's development. in regards to NY, he should pull a Kobe and go put on 20 lbs of muscle in the off season and be our new 2guard with D-stevey as our 6th man.
Bullets -> Wizards
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TheSecretWeapon
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pancakes3 wrote:
The next argument of the translation of poor play to poor coaching is also flawed. dating back to 1998, the wizards have consistently been in the 20's on defense (except for 2001 where we were dead last), and also in the 20's for offense. Then when Jordan came into the system, we jumped to 10th in 2004-5, 7th in 2005-6 and then 3rd in 2006-7, and this past season with injuries, we slid to 12th. So it is sufficient to say that Jordan is as bad or good as a defensive coach as doug collins, or hamilton, or whichever carousel of coaches we've had in the past 10 years but have upgraded the offense significantly.
What are you using as your measure of "defense"? Are the rankings you have here supposed to be of defense or offense?
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willbcocks
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pancakes3 wrote:This argument of Eddie Jordan being a terrible defensive player translating to him being a terrible defensive coach and consequently having him fired is the penultimate of fan overreaction.
If this is the penultimate (argument), I would hate to see the ultimate one...
(FYI: I think you mean 'epitome.' Penultimate is an adjective that means the 2nd highest, or 2nd to last)[/b]
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pancakes3
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you're right. mistype on the pen-ultimate. epitome, paradigm, prototypical, etc.
and by defense, i mean points/100 possessions. the stats were taken from basketball-reference.com. the point i was trying to convey was that eddie jordan was not detrimental to the defense, as it was "consistently in the 20's" though the offensive rankings shot up.
and by defense, i mean points/100 possessions. the stats were taken from basketball-reference.com. the point i was trying to convey was that eddie jordan was not detrimental to the defense, as it was "consistently in the 20's" though the offensive rankings shot up.
Bullets -> Wizards
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TheSecretWeapon
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If you're using pts per 100 possessions, something isn't right in the numbers you posted previously. Wiz haven't been nearly that good defensively under Eddie. Their defensive rankings through the years:
2002-03 -- 18 (Michael Jordan's final year)
2003-04 -- 20 (Eddie's first season)
2004-05 -- 19
2005-06 -- 22
2006-07 -- 28
2007-08 -- 24
2002-03 -- 18 (Michael Jordan's final year)
2003-04 -- 20 (Eddie's first season)
2004-05 -- 19
2005-06 -- 22
2006-07 -- 28
2007-08 -- 24
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Good to see Nick Young back on the court during the summer. Here's a nice windmill jam...
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_d ... =nba,87643
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_d ... =nba,87643
