Resurrected unified MUSIC thread.

[BanndNDC]

Basehead's first album was great. I made the mistake of picking up a later album and it just wasnt that good. Some people just have one album, book, piece of art in them where it all comes together. 2000 BC was one of those.

[doclinkin]

Please listin to a minute or two of these songs, guaranteed to be enjoyed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR83LB5dAOc you are everything - the low life (local balto band, knew the drummer who ditched the band right before they got a record deal, the schmuck!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pMQtXb1 ... 7&index=14 maybe i'll come down - soul coughing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR0k7AvROfw $300 - soul coughing

Yeah we can talk. Three of the better shows I've ever seen were Soul Coughing at 9:30. "Got a body like soft serve, melting down in the june sun..." Too bad they self-destructed, too much talent pulling different directions, things fall apart.

I like Cake too. Hadn't heard the Low Life, they're a new favorite now. Who else you got?

[doclinkin]

Basehead's first album was great. I made the mistake of picking up a later album and it just wasnt that good. Some people just have one album, book, piece of art in them where it all comes together. 2000 BC was one of those.

Loved "Not Over You" et al. But I just don't know that I'd count it as a key touchstone in hiphop history.

[doclinkin]

Referenced Gil Scott Heron as a cat who early on rhymed poetry over beats and bass, but some young cats ain't aware. There's still useful basslines to mine from these.

Gun.

Bottle. I remember the NYC in that video.

Smooth late 70's-early 80's funk.

[miller31time]

Currently listening to a lot of James Morrison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0yQfxM3Hr8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU1Yau9K9YQ

[BanndNDC]

Loved "Not Over You" et al. But I just don't know that I'd count it as a key touchstone in hiphop history.

i wouldnt count it as one of the touchstones of hip hop (i mean it was no all the way to heaven or la di da di and probably too regional) but im feeling a little contrarian, so how's this:

1. one of the first real "alternative" hip hop crossovers. moody and theatrical it presaged the jazzy influences soon to come. it was undeniably hip hop but not really. it was the first of a style that is just now being appreciated. paper planes owes it more then a few influences.

2. played with real instruments and homemade. it showed 2nd wave people what was possible to do on your own without a studio and predicted the disillusionment w mainstream hip hop. it was the east coast diy version of the blackalicious/dj shadow/latryx scene that led to J5 and PUST and right in line with old school tricky/massive attack. it expanded hip hop out of the same ole same ole.

3. middle class, post racial unpretentious, no preen talking about everyday things. excessively open and brutally honest there was no fronting to the music, no cloying hippie bs. no comic book over the top afrocentrism. no stereotyped gangsta lean. just stripped down good music. did mos def, twalib and common hear basehead? who knows, but i like to think they did. post bling bling when it was still pre.

(oh and he did the whole semi singing flow before nate dogg and bone thugs)

to me it just represented the dc that i lived in. laid back, overeducated but unpretentious, eclectic, sarcastic, honest and soulful.

Basehead turns hip-hop into shaggy-dog stories, dropping rap's usual stylized cockiness for something closer to the everyday. Ivey is on the cusp of hip-hop and alternative rock, where self-deprecation rules. Funny but not exactly a joke, Basehead rejects the escapism that reigns equally in the seamless machismo of old-school rap and the benign transcendence of P. M. Dawn; without raising his voice, he gives hip-hop a reality check.
NY Times 1993

after finding that quote and a few others it's pretty clear that what i thought was a bit of a regional thing actually got a ton of big time critical success. it may not normally be considered a touchstone but its revolutionary nature certainly was influential and deserves a place on any list.
Roslling Stone review

Play with Toys
2000 B.C.

[doclinkin]

after finding that quote and a few others it's pretty clear that what i thought was a bit of a regional thing actually got a ton of big time critical success. it may not normally be considered a touchstone but its revolutionary nature certainly was influential and deserves a place on any list.

I was about to say, it wasn't strictly regional since I found it in NYC, and I remember reviews in the independent papers that piqued my interest, plus a little of the local northeast low-power radio/college radio play. The 'influential' part is the bit that I questioned since I never heard anyone reference it or steal from it, and just figured it was something all the critics liked, but nobody but me ever gave a crap about really. Maybe not.

So, what-- influential in bridging hiphop to the college alt-radio crowd? Okay. Still curious who cites it as an influence, mostly because I'd like to hear what else they liked and what music they made after.

[barelyawake]

Well, in terms of influencial, I tend to think more in terms of moving the music along. About ten people (in America) heard Daft Punk, until a decade later. They were still breaking ground. Basehead definitely did something no one else was doing at the time (and no one else did for at least another decade). As did Heroes of Hiphoprisy. You can call them offshoots of P.E., but they were the only ones doing that sort of rap at the time. Television was a big song at the time. That whole album was great and ground breaking.

In terms of influencial songs, I'll list the crossover songs that I can think of:

"Don't call me a whitey" -- Perry/IceT
"Cop Killer" -- Ice T
"Bring the Noise" -- Anthrax/P.E.
"Walk this Way" -- Aerosmith/Run DMC
"No Sleep 'Til Brooklyn" -- Beasties

These songs lead to Korn. Beasties broke ground several different ways at different stages in their career, and rarely get credit for it. Beasties, Public Enemy, Rakim etc broke alot of ground because they could use whatever the hell they wanted (before sampling laws). So, those guys were just laying tracks over each other (again on a four track recorder), which is pretty complex to get right (as the Beatles found out the hard way).

Shabba also belongs on the list. There was a guy before KRS1/Shabba, on the previously mentioned "Island album." That's what we called it. I think it was a collection of rap songs from Island records or something like that. It was the first time I ever heard anything close to political rap. It had deep African and reggae influences. I could quote the whole damn album, and I keep thinking the verses will pop onto my tongue. Anyway, that lead to KRS1, who then lead to Shabba. And Shabba lead to Busta. Busta lead to Mavado.

[doclinkin]

Nah. Shabba is straight from dancehall reggae, which led to hiphop in the first place with grandmaster marlymarl (I think, one of the 'grandmaster' dudes) 'toasting' on top of funk breakbeats same way they did it on soul records in Jamaica.

Shinehead actually probably predates KRS in the hiphop/reggae crossover. But Shabba is directly from the Pato Banton/Yellowman/etc etc tree. Actually Jamaican-American Heavy-D was one of the first I heard to to work in the dancehall riddim to a rap, toasting on top of the beat. Can't recall if I heard that before BDP though.

On the rap/rock crossover thing. I liked the Judgment Night soundtrack album. The Pearl Jam joint with Cypress HIllwas sublime, ditto the De La/TeenageFanclub mix. Gorillaz is on a direct bloodline from that.

Funny. Got to love Youtube. I'd forgotten about D-Nice. Special Ed. a host of ghosts from the long dead 80's.

[barelyawake]

No no Doc, I didn't mean it like that. I meant I thought that Shabba was found by KRS1. I thought that was the story. I thought Shabba was discovered by KRS1 back during the Boogie Down days. I could be wrong. I didn't mean they played the same music -- although KRS1 was the first to popularize guys like Yellowman.

And I loved the Judgement Night soundtrack too. And Sublime was my favorite band for about half a decade.

[doclinkin]

Far as critical rap/alternative/rock crossover is concerned, Chili Peppers were rhyming on top of hardcore funk for a good long while. And I'd count Beck's 'Loser' as a key song.

Dunno, I'm home sick from work, it's a blast walking though youtube on the nostalgia trip.

Busta Rhymes is probably the only rap artist impossible to imitate. Love the way he drives the beat with his syllabalistic clobbering. Not riding on top the beat, but using his voice as the primary rhythm instrument. The beat is chasing him. Never matters if he has anything to say, busta jabbering and verbally battering never fails to crack me a smile.

[barelyawake]

Yep, Chili Peppers and Jane's. Saw them many a time, but on the crossover front I saw both bands on stage with Ice-T singing "Whitey."

[BanndNDC]

after finding that quote and a few others it's pretty clear that what i thought was a bit of a regional thing actually got a ton of big time critical success. it may not normally be considered a touchstone but its revolutionary nature certainly was influential and deserves a place on any list.

I was about to say, it wasn't strictly regional since I found it in NYC, and I remember reviews in the independent papers that piqued my interest, plus a little of the local northeast low-power radio/college radio play. The 'influential' part is the bit that I questioned since I never heard anyone reference it or steal from it, and just figured it was something all the critics liked, but nobody but me ever gave a crap about really. Maybe not.

So, what-- influential in bridging hiphop to the college alt-radio crowd? Okay. Still curious who cites it as an influence, mostly because I'd like to hear what else they liked and what music they made after.

i was just talking out of my ass and seeing if i could make the argument. to be honest, i think it was just one of those background albums that people liked and kind of forgot about, just another obscure background influence to the bargain bin musician crowd. it kinda just blended into what a lot of others were doing expanding hip hop.

one thing that's interesting to me that i noticed is that it got a lot more credit overseas. so there might be an actual argument that the euro etc movement was actually influenced (since they had to rely a lot more on reviews to find what they listened to)

check out this weird ass page:
http://encyclopedia.kids.net.au/page/al ... ve_hip_hop

there was actually a lot of good music (hip hop and otherwise) when we were growing up. the early 90's scene taken as a whole has turned out to be very influential. i find it hard to single out one or another group since it was the entire vibe, of which basehead was just one extreme outlier, that was influential. there were quite a few random groups that had one or two good songs and tried out different things that are clearly seen in more modern groups like Jedi Mind Tracks, People Under the Stairs etc.

of the early 90's stuff the only albums id put down as definite touchstones would be:
Guru - Jazzmatazz
Cypress HIll - Cypress Hill
Tribe Called Quest - Low End Theory
with a special mention of the whole New Jack Swing mini-era, De La Soul, Jungle Brothers, and what started in Cali with Blackalicious/DJ Shadow.

those were the bridge albums that received commercial and critical success without any loss of credibility. they opened up what hip hop could be in terms of beats, rhythms, grooves and content.

[BanndNDC]

man this has really taken me down a cool diversion

just some random songs this thread has made me remember, check out the progression it's kinda amazing that all of these came in a span of 5 or 6 years.
The Goats- Typical American
Blood of Abraham - Stabbed by the Steeple
Pharcyde - Runnin'
Black Sheep - Choice is Yours
Tribe - Scenario
Jungle Brothers - Straight out the Jungle
Doo Doo Brown
Wrecks N Effect - New Jack Swing
Kwame - The Rhythm
Big Daddy Kane - I Get the Job Done
Slick Rick - Children's Story
Kool Moe Dee - wild Wild West

warning - rock
Hater - Who Do I Kill

[barelyawake]

Guru - Jazzmatazz
Cypress HIll - Cypress Hill
Tribe Called Quest - Low End Theory
with a special mention of the whole New Jack Swing mini-era, De La Soul

Yep, those were all my favorite albums the day they came out (and months to years after).

[BanndNDC]

Shinehead actually probably predates KRS in the hiphop/reggae crossover. But Shabba is directly from the Pato Banton/Yellowman/etc etc tree. Actually Jamaican-American Heavy-D was one of the first I heard to to work in the dancehall riddim to a rap, toasting on top of the beat. Can't recall if I heard that before BDP though.

i used to love that song (and album). i thought BDP was before any of them. although as far as my listening habits i remember being turned on to shinehead, slick rick and nwa all in the summer of '88 and not hearing BDP until a couple of years later.

[barelyawake]

Christ, on the crossover front, how could I forget:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OdSoKfTP1k

[doclinkin]

Bannd's linked site pointed me to Poor Righteous Teachers, remember Rock Dis Funky Joint. I'm pretty sure if I'd ever seen the video, these some odd looking cats. Truth is 80's video fashion has not aged well at all, but the dance step stuff was even worse, mad corny, the whole mess...

[BanndNDC]

he Anthrax version of Bring da Noise was absolutely amazing. They had done some of the cheesy rap metal before with Im The Man but when they got together with PE that put a real groove to it. No Sleep till Brooklyn of course had that Kerry King solo.

In the realm of the whole metal/funk/rap mix up i remember a great show at the old 930 of 24-7 SPyz/Follow for Now/the Hard Corps. the Body Count show was pretty bad ass too.

I am such an old man. Music was better when i was in high school and we were so lucky to be able to go to so many shows at relatively cheap prices.

rap metal
The Hard Corps - Hard Corps

funk metal
Infectious Grooves - You lie.. And yo breath stank

[barelyawake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAfrhmIvZ_s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izB85LUl ... 1&index=42


Said it before, but I think the greatest, "Wow what the hell is this," moment in my musical listening history is "Straight Outta Compton" (followed by Metallica, PE and Black Flag). You just can't explain it to people who weren't around then. Listen to Duran Duran songs for hours until you believe that is all the music that exists in the world. Then, suddenly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkPb4s0-QcI

And the next week Congress holds hearings trying to shut them down. Kids all over the suburbs with cueballs for eyes gawking at MTV.