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Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread.

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Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#1 » by doclinkin » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:10 pm

An experiment, we'll see how this works. We've got a Trade thread for all the wouldbe GM's etc, and we can fill petitions with complaints, but aside from the 'fire everybody' chorus, we have never had a spot specifically for breaking down team strengths weaknesses, proposed line-ups, etc.

Hey look if you're willing to criticize, fine, that's good, but why not also provide positive suggestions. On the 'million monkeys typing' theory-- you never know when the collective intelligence of the internets might unearth a useful nugget of brilliance that could profit the team if they were only smart enough to listen.

What goes in here?

We had a brief roundabout on the breakdown of minutes, and that's always good, more of that is fine. But how's about a rousing discussion of line-ups, etc.? With special attention to what role is played by each player within the line-up, what strengths they bring to the role, what weaknesses of theirs exists and how best to mask it. You know, a coaching workshop. Nuts and bolts.

Also. We all watch other teams, it could be useful to track what plays other teams like to run,. what they have had success with, and how other teams have defensed players who have proven to be a problem for the Wiz. Scouting reports, breakdowns, game analysis of other teams contests.

And for the truly dedicated, feel free to diagram and breakdown plays, or draw them up, invent new offenses we should be playing instead of the much maligned 'weave and heave' deally. Did you find a play on the web you think the Wiz have the personnel to run effectively? What tools are they ignoring in their arsenal. What defenses.

Feel free to complain in this thread if you want, but always try to offer a positive suggestion, what you would do in that instance, what should be done etc, more than just the good old 'throw the bums out' chant (fire or trade). The question is: how can _this team_ win. But wild speculation on the potential development of young players is allowed. Future line-ups, etc.

How can we win the championship with smarter coaching if you were in charge? Go:
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#2 » by Dat2U » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:13 pm

This is not a DCZards approved thread.

We are just fans. Our opinions don't matter.
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#3 » by yungal07 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:34 pm

Strategically, I would love to see more plays run for our bigs. I'd like to see more post up opportunities for Haywood especially. I think he has worked hard on his post game and should be rewarded with more offensive touches. I do not like the way our bigs are encouraged to roam around the perimeter instead of banging down low. Get them on the block and let 'em work.

As far as lineups are concerned, I'd like to see EJ "try" a lineup consisting of Arenas, Butler, Jams, Blatche, Wood just to see how it works. EJ is so hell bent in staying within his own little rotational box that he never tries anything different.

As for plays - I love Utah's style of play. They win a ton of games because they run that pick and roll to death. If you have two guys who can run it, it's deadly (and efficient).
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#4 » by LyricalRico » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:46 pm

^ Nice one, Dat. :rofl:

But I do like Doc's original premise so I'll keep it civil.

One lineup that got a lot of us excited in the 2007 pre-season was something I'll call the Triple Towers (although I don't think it was given an official moniker) where Haywood, Blatche, and Pesh were all on the floor at the same time.

Haywood - the anchor of the defense and primary offensive rebounder
Blatche - shot blocker and primary offensive option (at least in the frontcourt)
Pecherov - stretches the defense with his shooting and provides rebounding

My main question with that lineup would be defensively, although that could be mitigated by playing zone. Still, if one of them got stuck on the perimeter against a good SF they'd be toast. You could say that playing Jamison at SF poses the same problems but his offense is going to make up for that in a way that none of the guys in this group can even approach. So that tells me that we can't use this against a team with a smallish but quick frontcourt.

I don't recall which guards played in that lineup but I think that you'd have to have two things from your backcourt in order for a front line like that to work: a guy who can create his own shot and a guy who can create shots for others. (I'm not as concerned about defense since we'd have 2 quality shot blockers back there.) So that means you could use any of the following combinations:

Arenas
Daniels

Butler
Daniels

Young
Daniels

The common name in all of those groups is Daniels so I would say that if we ever do go to the Triple Towers lineup in a game, AD has to be on the floor for every second that that lineup is used. And then the other guard position can be alternated based on matchups.

This actually reminds me somewhat of the Indiana Pacer teams of the 90's that had the following lineup:

Smits
D.Davis
McKey
Miller
M.Jackson

The only guy that doesn't directly translate is Rik Smits since nobody on our team has what he had offensively. But aside from that we'd have a poor man's version of that type of lineup.

If the team was ever getting beaten badly on the boards by a big frontcourt (like Cleveland) or were giving up a lot of layups/dunks, I think we could go to the Triple Towers to counter.
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#5 » by nate33 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:20 pm

I'd like to see EJ exploit matchups a little more. For example, Haywood can be a very effective offensive threat against relatively small PF/C types posing as real centers. Those guys just don't have the length to stop his jump hook. Against that kind of player, post Haywood up repeatedly until we force the other team to put a bigger, less-skilled center in the game (which would presumably hinder their offense). Next time we play Atlanta (Horford), Miami (Blount), New Jersey (Boone), Minnesota (Jefferson), Detroit (McDyess) or any other team lacking a true center, let's make them pay.

EJ seems to reflexively opt to a smaller lineup late in games. In general, that's not such a bad idea because we spread the floor and give room for Arenas to operate. But I don't think it's always the right move. At times, our best one-on-one scoring option might be Jamison working in the post against a SF, rather than Arenas breaking a guy down. Late in games when we need a score, it might be wise to slide Jamison to SF, Butler to SG, and put either Blatche or Songaila at PF. I think that might be good for a key bucket or two before the opposing team reacts by doubling Jamison.

Out of necessity, EJ did a very good job of making sure one of Butler/Jamison was in the game at all times last year. (We sucked so bad when both were off the floor.) I'd like EJ to stick with that strategy. Yank Jamison early in the 1st and 3rd so he can be reinserted at the start of the 2nd and 4th to play alongside the bench players. Daniels, Young, Jamison, Blatche and either Etan or Songaila should be a fairly effective 2nd unit.

Keep the Big Three healthy by playing them no more than 36 minutes a piece. And for God's sake, play Haywood 30+ minutes a game!
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#6 » by DCZards » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:19 pm

Dat2U wrote:This is not a DCZards approved thread.

We are just fans. Our opinions don't matter.


Wow, dat, I'm really surprised by how consumed you are by what I think or say. I don't know whether to take it as a compliment or look out the window to make sure you're not stalking me. :D
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#7 » by doclinkin » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:09 am

LyricalRico wrote:One lineup that got a lot of us excited in the 2007 pre-season was something I'll call the Triple Towers (although I don't think it was given an official moniker) where Haywood, Blatche, and Pesh were all on the floor at the same time.

Haywood - the anchor of the defense and primary offensive rebounder
Blatche - shot blocker and primary offensive option (at least in the frontcourt)
Pecherov - stretches the defense with his shooting and provides rebounding


I like the triple tower concept-- if Pech ever develops to become even a competent role player. If he can become the player he thinks he is and would like to be, we'd have something pretty strong. A 7-footer who can back up Jamison, rebound and still stretch the floor is a useful weapon in the arsenal.

It might be too much to think we'd get competent SF play out of either Pech or Dray though. Dray keeps his stance too upright on defense (trying for speed of shotblocking) if he kept a lower base his opponent would have to drive all the way around those long legs, giving the frontcourt time to react. And Pech right now looks more lost than Nick Young in defensive rotations.

Really though if we could get reliable ranged shooting and defense out of any one of Pesh, Dray or McGee I'd be very happy. I'd be Ecstatic if they could take the Job on merit from the 20/10 man Tawn. Twin towers would work just fine for me. IF we get strong role players out of two of them, well yeah, then a ton of possibilities open up in the playbook.
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#8 » by doclinkin » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:15 am

I'm getting more and more intrigued with the chemistry possibilities off the bench. We've got savvy players that work well together in

Dray,
Songaila,
Daniels.

And I like the chem displayed between Caron and Songaila. All are savvy head's-up ballers,

Mix and match with Nick Young (scorer) and DMac (natural ballhound talent roleplayer) and there's a mess of possibilities we can play with right now, without begging for development far beyond what they've already displayed. A good mix of talent and experience to play with.

No time now to break it down, but I'll come back to that.
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#9 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:10 am

I agree on most nights we have the advantage at center with Haywood. He really has finally become one of the top centers in the game, especially in the East. Even more talented guys like Bosh have a tough time with his length and he has gotten stronger. He even usually actually matches up well against guys like Duncan and DHoward. Too often we would start games going to him inside effectively, only to stop for no apparent reason. Especially when we go with Blatche next to him at the 4 we can be tough to match up with inside and I'd like to see us take advantage of that more. Having Etan to backup Haywood now, he also usually gives us an edge vs the opponents backups, we hopefully will see more of Blatche at PF, with Jamison getting more pt at the 3 when resting Caron.

I am interested in seeing the development of our young guys Nick, Dominic, Pesh, McGee. I'm looking for some serious improvement from Young to give us a nice 1-2 punch at SG with DeShawn. I'm looking for McGuire to give us some all around game (Caron-lite) and D off the bench at SF behind Butler and Jamison. If McGee can give us anything in spot minutes at the 5 that would be total gravy. Pesh I want to see better judgement on the court and just smarter play overall, and going inside. He can be effective if he can go inside aggresively, then work outside. His tendency to stand at the 3 pt line and chuck shots when he gets it has to stop... someone please tell him to stop watching Jamison and start watching Songaila! I don't think Dleague would be a bad idea for Pesh.
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#10 » by LyricalRico » Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:59 am

doclinkin wrote:I'm getting more and more intrigued with the chemistry possibilities off the bench. We've got savvy players that work well together in

Dray,
Songaila,
Daniels.

And I like the chem displayed between Caron and Songaila. All are savvy head's-up ballers.


As much as I want Songaila gone, I have to agree with this. But I only agree about this group working well together offensively. Blatche is a solid weakside shot blocker but he's not a great rim defender in that he doesn't change enough shots to drastically drop the opponent FG% like Haywood does. He also gets beat a lot by his own man, forcing him to foul. Songaila has the same problem. AD is done as a defensive player and Caron is merely average (he becomes less than average if you move him over to SG). That almost forces you to either play Stevenson to help on defense or play Arenas to outscore the opposing lineup. Either option leaves us back where we started.

Another option could be to maximize our defense by going with our biggest players and best rebounders off the bench.

Etan
Blatche
McGuire
Young
Daniels

That gives us two shot blockers (Etan/Dray), two solid rebounders (Etan/DMac), two guys who can create their own shots against other reserves (Dray/Young) and AD to manage the show. None of them are even above average defensively but there's enough length and activity on the boards to be effective against reserves. The problem is if neither Blatche nor Young become consistent offensively we could have scoring droughts with that group. And again that puts us back where we started.
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#11 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:54 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
doclinkin wrote:I'm getting more and more intrigued with the chemistry possibilities off the bench. We've got savvy players that work well together in

Dray,
Songaila,
Daniels.

And I like the chem displayed between Caron and Songaila. All are savvy head's-up ballers.


As much as I want Songaila gone, I have to agree with this. But I only agree about this group working well together offensively. Blatche is a solid weakside shot blocker but he's not a great rim defender in that he doesn't change enough shots to drastically drop the opponent FG% like Haywood does. He also gets beat a lot by his own man, forcing him to foul. Songaila has the same problem. AD is done as a defensive player and Caron is merely average (he becomes less than average if you move him over to SG). That almost forces you to either play Stevenson to help on defense or play Arenas to outscore the opposing lineup. Either option leaves us back where we started.

Another option could be to maximize our defense by going with our biggest players and best rebounders off the bench.

Etan
Blatche
McGuire
Young
Daniels

That gives us two shot blockers (Etan/Dray), two solid rebounders (Etan/DMac), two guys who can create their own shots against other reserves (Dray/Young) and AD to manage the show. None of them are even above average defensively but there's enough length and activity on the boards to be effective against reserves. The problem is if neither Blatche nor Young become consistent offensively we could have scoring droughts with that group. And again that puts us back where we started.



I agree I like that group as our essential 2nd string... Etan, Blatche, McGuire, Young, Daniels... that group could be very good together and complimenary IMO. The combo of Etan's strength with Blatche's athleticism inside, DMac's added shot blocking and passing at sf, NY to score and AD to be the level headed leader to run things.

This leads a 3rd string of reserves to include McGee, Songaila, Pecherov, Dee Brown.... although I see Songaila getting worked in frequently with that 2nd group as well, adding versatility in the post with a well rounded heads up game to mix in at the 4 and 5.

I also think a 2nd season with Randy Ayers will really show this season as guys get a 2nd year under his system, and go into camp already familiar with his system and schemes without having to "learn" them... just go in and get to work on it and practice. Defense more than anything else is based on being able to react instinctively and team chemistry.
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#12 » by doclinkin » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:23 am

Wizblog guy SportzWiz watched an informal scrimmage.

Wiz official blog guy answering doc's questions wrote:

The guys went 5 on 5, I dont know who the 10th guy was. But the teams were
Black Green
Dee Brown vs. Nick Young
Caron Butler vs. Unnamed 10th player
Dominic McGuire vs. Antawn Jamison
JaVale McGee vs. Andray Blatche
Brendan Haywood vs. Etan Thomas

The black team won every game I saw. There was also a game where Nick and CB3 went at each other almost every possession, and lets just say Caron was unguardable (although nick got a few on the other end his jumper looks about 10 times better than summer league). Twan and CB3 didn’t try to control the game, they let the young guys shoot more except the game where Caron dominated

Questions:

" Dom’s jumper, how does it look? Is he still able to hit that midrange shot he displayed in Vegas? What position was he playing: inside or wing."

Dom played the wing and was guarding Twan. Offensively he looked terriffic! The guy was knocking in that 18-20 foot jumper from both the baseline and the wing. He also looked much more comfortable handling the ball to me. I was very impressed.

"Dray’s low-post work, did he develop anything to score in the paint or is he still trying to be face-up only. How about his footwork on defense? Is he any bigger?"

Dray and JaVale guarded each other and it was a pretty good matchup. Dray wasnt in the paint as much because Etan setup on the block on most possessions.

" Ditto x3 on JaVale. Does he still look lost on D unless he’s blocking a shot?"

If JaVale runs, jumps and hustles he will be a force in this league one day. He scored on multiple put back shots where nobody could jump with him. Caron kept yelling “Dunk it on everybody.” the vets like the young guy and Dee Brown kept referring to him as J-Mac while most other people refer to him as “young fella”.

"How did any Brendan vs Etan match-ups go?"

Both guys know each other very well and they anticipate each other’s moves. Etan looks Ripped! Brendan’s mid-range jumper is getting very good from that 10-15 foot range and he also had a great face up and baseilne drive for the game winning dunk. Great to see Etan back out there also and he will be a very very nice addition to the frontline after missing last year.

" Is Caron lean like last year or did he add back on some bulk?"

Caron looks like a beast, and whenever he wanted to score he could, Again from someone very close to him “He’s in the best shape of his career”.

" Does Nick still pound the hellout the ball or does he occasionally pass? Defense?"

Nick’s jumper is great and he said after summer league he worked extra hard to prove that really wasn’t him. I wouldnt put too much stock in his play from summer league. Nick did a nice job staying with a quick Dee Brown the other games I saw

One last thing, Dee Brown is super quick, his jumper was solid and he seems to always make the extra pass to setup his teammates. He’s lightning quick on defense and the guy seems to never run out of energy on the court and is always trying to get his teammates going.


AAAhhhh... it's been so long without actual basketball news. Must resist urge to gorge on optimism.

Anyway given the tidbits and scraps here, any new ideas for line-ups and chemistry?
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#13 » by doclinkin » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:49 am

LyricalRico wrote:As much as I want Songaila gone, I have to agree with this. But I only agree about this group working well together offensively. Blatche is a solid weakside shot blocker but he's not a great rim defender in that he doesn't change enough shots to drastically drop the opponent FG% like Haywood does. He also gets beat a lot by his own man, forcing him to foul. Songaila has the same problem. AD is done as a defensive player and Caron is merely average (he becomes less than average if you move him over to SG). That almost forces you to either play Stevenson to help on defense or play Arenas to outscore the opposing lineup. Either option leaves us back where we started.

Another option could be to maximize our defense by going with our biggest players and best rebounders off the bench.

Etan
Blatche
McGuire
Young
Daniels

... The problem is if neither Blatche nor Young become consistent offensively we could have scoring droughts with that group. And again that puts us back where we started.


I'm a billion percent certain we'll see that line-up in games, though I agree with S'ballman that we'll probably see Songaila (if healthy) sub in for Etan at times to exemplify that highpost game and jumpstart bench scoring, ball movement. You have to show how it looks if the young guys are going to learn run it ever.

And in that case you get the offense/passing to go with the rebounding and hustle D that DMac and Dray can bring. Opposing centers will be more likely to check Dray than Songaila (and compared to low-post Etan) which clears the paint for Daniels in his give and go game with DSong. There's a ton of room to operate there, especially if the opponent plays a slow immobile frontcourt.

If Dom's jumper and handle are better this year, well then we've really got something interesting in this line, in either iteration (Dsong or Etanic). I really like the spacing possible on offense with this bunch, especially the Songaila line. This is exactly how the offense is meant to be run: smart cunning ballers at each position, unorthodox mismatches possible and the passing to take advantage of it. Your attack can come from anywhere, whomever's got the advantage. Read and recognition skills are high for all except NickY, and either the rest of the players on court can boss him around and tell him where to be, or they'll find him as soon as he's in the right spot, or he'll score regardless.

Defense isn't bad, high effort, willing to foul sure but some intimidation is possible. One of the Wiz' best defensive line-ups (in terms of opponent eFG%) last year was

Mason
Young
Jamison
Dray
Songaila

(incidentally we should be stripmining that linked page for ideas in this thread).

Now they gave up a ton of FT's, true, but DMac's quicker laterally than Jamison and adds weakside shotblocking, even strongside shotswatting if he sees it coming. Even though Daniels is slower than Mason defensively, with a shotblocker on either wing he's smart enough to follow the force rules and funnel the opponent to their area of intercept. This squad is definitely good enough to buy a few minutes rest for the satarters and even extend a lead against reserves.
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#14 » by miller31time » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:05 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Wiz official blog guy answering doc's questions wrote:" Does Nick still pound the hellout the ball or does he occasionally pass? Defense?"

Nick’s jumper is great and he said after summer league he worked extra hard to prove that really wasn’t him. I wouldnt put too much stock in his play from summer league. Nick did a nice job staying with a quick Dee Brown the other games I saw


That part has me a bit worried. You ask a question regarding Nick's defense and passing and the blog guy just posts about Nick's jumper.

Overall though, enjoyable read and it certainly does provide reason for optimism.
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#15 » by nate33 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:40 pm

blog guy seems a little too optimistic to me. It makes me want to take everything he says with a grain of salt.

I really like hearing that DMac is playing on the wing and hitting his J. I also like hearing that Dee Brown is playing like a true PG (I think he might be a factor this year with AD's wrist still a problem).

Man, McGee is one long dude! His arms come down to his knees!
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#16 » by closg00 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:38 pm

Yep, take the Wiz blog writer for what he is, a paid writer for the blog.

McGee is a stick-man affraid of contact, hence Caron telling him to dunk it. Dude has a lot to learn.

I wonder how many fadeaways Young shot during the 5 on 5 :D

Nice to hear that Etan is ripped-n-ready.
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#17 » by doclinkin » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:41 pm

Yeah I've been bugging the blog guy all summer for some details on who's in town, how they look, who works out, etc but he keeps crying 'impossible'. Sheesh, Eric Hernandez come back, we need ya buddy. Traffic on the site dwindled to a trickle since the ony thing up there was regurgitated breakdowns of other team's summer moves (available anywhere) or worse, links to other sites discussing which NBAer would make a good football player.

So it's nice to get a piece of information. By all means feel free to bombard the site with further requests and questions. They need an intern with too much time on his hands who can make a pest of himself interviewing players and writing scrimmage breakdowns. This cat seems to think he's too busy. No knock on him, maybe that IT stuff is kicking his butt, just saying I'm looking forward to training camp when Dave Johnson will murder a keyboard (and grammar, english language) typing every minute detail of the team's workings.

Just saying, if you have a blog on a team website, you know, kinda, why not discuss the team?

Still I love what I'm hearing, I don't care if it's all happy talk, preseason and offseason are when Wizfans hopes are highest. Except of course there's the murmur that Gil may have had another scope? And won't participate in training camp?

Ug.

On-topic, Javale's putback skill and practice chemistry may earn him PT sooner than later. Nice to hear the veterans putting him through his paces, encouraging him and finding out what he can do. Interesting that he was playing PF, though I don't like hearing he's dribbling coast to coast and laying it off for wee Dee Brown to make the lay-up. Throw it down big man. One time.

Now Scribbling up new formations and plays while I sit here.. Interesting possibilities, even if, uh.... crap, even if Gil's out of the game or limited. Caron it's on you baby.

Okay new coaching question: if Gil can't go, how can this team weather the storm? (trades excluded).
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#18 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:25 pm

Double post. Sorry.
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#19 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:30 pm

With Gil out for a good while, it will be good to see an even distribution of shots.

I'm going to ease up on my criticisms of McGee (finesse big man when I thought a traditional pummeler like Hendricks would have been a much better pick). Although, I wanted the Wiz to land a rebounder, defender, ass-kicker at PF; I see the Wizards got what they wanted: an offensive threat that could finish over taller PFs. They have that in McGee, now.

It seems Javon is really fitting in with teammates and that he's got ALLEY OOP-ability. That's a good thing for this team. My hope is that McGee wi'll master the nuance of low post scoring so that he can be a difference maker in the long haul. Also, his defense has to improve. Bottom line is if McGee can really score well inside, with Gil out, every little bit of scoring helps (so long as he doesn't give away more than he gets).

doc, as for armchair coaching, I'm encouraged that Dominic's handle and outside shot look better. I'm wondering if he can't play some SG just to help with rebounding and finishing.

I could see this lineup being effective: Daniels, McGuire, Butler, Jamison, Haywood

I've always wanted a Josh Childress-like SG next to Caron and Antawn. I know Stevenson can defend moving his feet and cutting off some penetration, but I suspect Dominic could defend better.
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread. 

Post#20 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:40 pm

How about this lineup with three starters resting:

Daniels, Stevenson, McGuire, McGee, Thomas

AD and DeShawn keep the floor spaced. The two Mcs get put back dunks. Etan operates on the blocks.
Bye bye Beal.

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