Armchair Coaching, Scouting, etc thread.

[LyricalRico]

With Gil out I think we have no choice but to try Butler at SG. We're gonna need the firepower and it also opens it up for Blatche to start (a role he clearly plays better in).

Haywood/Etan
Blatche/Songaila
Jamison/McGuire
Butler/Stevenson
Daniels/Young

Backup PG is clearly a problem but I'd much rather let DS and N1 muddle through than go long stretches with Dee Brown on the floor.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I have faith in Dee Brown to at least score while he's out there. I'm thinking a scoring PG with quicks might not be all that big a detriment, LR.

Young at PG is just frightful to me.

[LyricalRico]

I have faith in Dee Brown to at least score while he's out there. I'm thinking a scoring PG with quicks might not be all that big a detriment, LR.

Young at PG is just frightful to me.

Well, in my scenario I'm guessing that Stevenson would be the "lead guard" as far as ball handling goes. He did that job well for a number of games last year.

I strongly disagree about Dee Brown. What makes you view him as a scoring guard? He's not a great shooter and is too small to finish at the rim. If he could score at the NBA level, why was he banished to Euprope to improve his game? IMO he's a poor man's Brevin Knight and scoring is probably near the bottom of BK's list of strengths. At least with my idea Young has to be guarded everywhere on the floor.

[doclinkin]

No knock on Dee Brown that he landed in Turkey for a time, if that were the case then we'd have given up on Mason before he ever landed here (Macabee Tel Aviv was one stop if I recall correct-like).

Dee Brown is a high enrgy basketball lifer, one of those guys who will kill himself to improve. He never slacks on court and is a pain in the ass defender because of it. If occasionally a ballhog, and short and all those knocks, still what he can improve on I expect he will. And having played in Turkey for FREE (ripped off by management) and maintaining a good attitude you got to know he'll put in all to death of dedication to do whatever it takes to stick in the league. I fully expect after sessions with 'Hoops' Hopla he'll continue to develop his shot. Shame that he has to be forced into service because of Gil's injury, but there are moments in every couple games where I suspect he'll win fans hearts.

For Example-- quotes from his journal on his web site:

Everyday I'm just feeling so much better after the good workouts at the gym. I've been working on my shot, strength and conditioning, and the Wizards defensive strageties. I workout twice a day once in the morning and then in the evening around 7. The attitude is the gym is great, everyone comes in and get some work done. I love when your star players live at the gym. Gilbert ask me every morning you coming back to the game tonight, Caron too. No matter how late I stay up, no matter what I did the night before I always get up the next day and put in some work in the gym. I love working out and staying on top of my game. This is what I do and it makes me feel so much better once I get home from the gym. My body is a little sore, but I make sure I stretch, eat right, and get plenty of massages. The NBA season is long and you have to be in shape and prepared for a lot of games and traveling.
...
I'm out here making things happen y'all. I have a big week coming up and I'm excited about everything. I feel like I'm getting better and stronger everyday. I love my job, I love the game of basketball and I love my fans. Thanks for stopping thru showing your boy love means a lot to me. God bless and holla at your boy

And again:

My vacation is over...I just moved out of my condo in downtown Chicago and now currently living in Washington, DC. I'm really excited about the new situation and opportunity with the Wizards that some nights I just couldn't sleep thinking about being back in the NBA.

...

As soon as I got into my place I dropped my bags and headed to the gym. I workout twice a day and I haven't been working out due to a sore foot that occured during Las Vegas camp. It felt so good to get back out there and work. I'm in good shape, but I guarantee come late September when training camp starts I will be in GREAT shape because I work so hard and love being in the gym with other pros and guys who work just as hard on their games. I really been focusing on my shooting and ball handling the two areas I think I'm good at but need to be great. The pickup games have been great and individual workouts have been unbelievable. The feeling I have right now I can't explain. I'm just so grateful and blessed to be back in the NBA and working out in great facilites, with great people, great players, and being back in America just feels GREAT!

I'm still in the process of moving in..My bags laying everywhere, plain walls, no food or drinks in the house. I'm just excited to be here and the gym has been my home. I'm so focused and determined to stay and show people I can really play. The one thing I have shown people is..improvement. Every year I get better, I work on things I know I have to get better at and things that will keep me in this business. There are only 420 NBA players but there are millions chasing the dream of putting on an NBA jersey. So my work ethic has definitely increase and it will only get better and better because small guards like myself are rare in the league nowadays due to the bigger guards the NBA are chasing. This is the dream, my dream so I will take full advantage of the opportunity just like my first year with the JAZZ. When Coach Eddie Jordan call my number I have to be ready and produce simple as that. I chose to be a basketball player and there are so many things that comes with being an athlete nowadays. To all my fans I will not let you down when it comes to working hard, being a positive role model, and competing at the highest level. This is what I do and this is what I love.

So anyway, the attitude is right. And good to know the Dee Brown I recall ain't the same guy I saw at Vegas with that hurt foot.

I suspect Dee Brown will play a Juan Dixon type role here. An instant energy player who adds class and energy to the bench and practice and will never embarrass you with a half-assed effort on court. YOu know exactly what you'll get with him out there. If he lacks a bit in stature or whatever he'll do his best to make up for it in work ethic and championship attitude. Definitely preserves positive bench chemistry. I used to like having an ex-CBA player on court, back when the CBA was the only NBA minor league, they've seen what it takes to get here and stick. Dee Brown playing in Turkey can motivate lax young pups like Young and Dray to work their tail off and appreciate what's been given them. He's one of the role-model types that can also ride herd on them when out and about in the real world. Fiery, competitive, talkative, but committed to maintaining a positive public image.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

UPDATE: Rico, based on what he did with Utah you're exactly right. Profile says Brevin Knight all the way.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... nde03.html

Very bad three point and FG percentages and very few points per attempt or points per minute played.

I hope Dee Brown's quicks, athleticism, and scoring teammates give him open looks to back up my HOPE which stats don't bear out. Good catch, Lyrical.

doc, my gut tells me Dee Brown is a leader and a winner. To heck with stats. Gulp, I must be sick.

[doclinkin]

I hope Dee Brown's quicks, athleticism, and scoring teammates give him open looks to back up my HOPE which stats don't bear out. Good catch, Lyrical.

doc, my gut tells me Dee Brown is a leader and a winner. To heck with stats. Gulp, I must be sick.

Kid shot 43% from college three as a junior during the Illini championship run. That's evidence of a decent shot. He broke his foot and had to return for his senior year to a team without the same talent. Had to carry them offensively (from 15% to 22% of all team total possessions).

It's a steep learning curve adjusting to the NBA size and deeper 3pt line, but this offense has made worse players look good. He had a 5.27 pure passer rating and about a 3/1 assist to TO ratio at Utah. As a penetrate and dish guy he'll be fine, and again, I expect Dave Hopla to rebuild that shot from the outside to the midrange. Is he the savior? Nope, and shouldn't have to play heavy minutes, but he can break a press and pass the ball, and infuriate the opponent on defense.

Check his post all-star break numbers if you want to see how he adjusted to the Big leagues in his rookie run with the Jazz: Much better numbers in a quick adjustment to big league speed. Great? No, but improving. 33.3% from three is pretty good.

On-topic, yeah I can see him scooter in to drop the ball off to Javale above the rim, if big McGee actually improves enough to make it into the game. I can see Dee play well with Dray. (*)

(*)Metaphysical goofy aside: Hey they're both Leo. Dee Brown: same as Red Kerr, Sean Penn, Robert deNiro, Rudy Gay, Tyrus Thomas. Mixed bag there, but all are passionate slow burn types).

[Ruzious]

One lineup that got a lot of us excited in the 2007 pre-season was something I'll call the Triple Towers (although I don't think it was given an official moniker) where Haywood, Blatche, and Pesh were all on the floor at the same time.

Haywood - the anchor of the defense and primary offensive rebounder
Blatche - shot blocker and primary offensive option (at least in the frontcourt)
Pecherov - stretches the defense with his shooting and provides rebounding

My main question with that lineup would be defensively, although that could be mitigated by playing zone. Still, if one of them got stuck on the perimeter against a good SF they'd be toast. You could say that playing Jamison at SF poses the same problems but his offense is going to make up for that in a way that none of the guys in this group can even approach. So that tells me that we can't use this against a team with a smallish but quick frontcourt.

I don't recall which guards played in that lineup but I think that you'd have to have two things from your backcourt in order for a front line like that to work: a guy who can create his own shot and a guy who can create shots for others. (I'm not as concerned about defense since we'd have 2 quality shot blockers back there.) So that means you could use any of the following combinations:

Ssssssssssssssssssssssllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwww. It just wouldn't work in the NBA. Transition defense and offense would be the biggest problems. The best way to use Pech is as a big - so he can draw out opposing bigs - and open up space for our slashers and other bigs. Haywood and Pech could probably mech (?).

[doclinkin]

Interesting comment from Coach Eddie on Brendan's role as an inside scorer.

On Brendan Haywood:
“[I’m just looking for] subtle improvement -- little things that would mean a lot for us. Certainly his approach and his intelligence are top-notch. He’s one of the most intelligent guys on the team and in the League. He talks on defense, he works on his body. He maintains his body to be big and strong. His defense has improved greatly. There are some subtle things, like maybe some more passing to cutters, screening and stuff you guys don’t really see in games. Overall his improvement was huge for us this year, and we continue to see him work on his body and on his game. He’s not a core scorer for us, but he knows when to be aggressive for us. Again, because of his intelligence he knows when he needs to pick up some slack. If Caron [Butler] is not on the floor, then we throw the ball to Brendan.”

Essentially Caron is option one or two in the front court, or at least he needs room to operate against his man so Big Wood has to slide out of the paint, but with Caron out of the formation, the best option down low is Big Wood.

[miller31time]

Nice quote, but has Brendan's defense really "greatly improved"? Maybe he's talking more on defense, and being more assertive with his teammates, but his actual man/help defense hasn't really fluctuated over the past few years.

[LyricalRico]

^ Considering that the quote was from EJ it doesn't surprise me that he hasn't been paying attention all these years. Haywood's percieved "improvement" is a product of him not losing minutes to the likes of Etan/Ruffin. Haywood didn't actually get better - he just played more minutes. There was finally a full season where EJ wasn't waiting for Haywood to do something wrong so that he could get his favorites into the game. He had to play Haywood and was forced to notice his good qualities.

Am I the only one who sees it as a problem that EJ thinks Haywood was a bum all these years (even tried to run him out of town) and now thinks that Haywood has magically improved? What does that say about our coach's ability to evaluate quality play? But of course the media and fans will buy the "Haywood has magically improved" theory because they are eating out EJ's hand. Nobody will ever ask "Why wasn't this guy getting minutes all along?" And the worst part is that all it will take is a few games of Etan swinging his elbows and all of a sudden Haywood will be seen as "regressing" and people will start calling him "Brenda" again and he'll get benched in favor of a lesser player. It's frustratingly inevitable.

[doclinkin]

^ Considering that the quote was from EJ it doesn't surprise me that he hasn't been paying attention all these years. Haywood's percieved "improvement" is a product of him not losing minutes to the likes of Etan/Ruffin. Haywood didn't actually get better - he just played more minutes. There was finally a full season where EJ wasn't waiting for Haywood to do something wrong so that he could get his favorites into the game. He had to play Haywood and was forced to notice his good qualities.

Am I the only one who sees it as a problem that EJ thinks Haywood was a bum all these years (even tried to run him out of town) and now thinks that Haywood has magically improved? What does that say about our coach's ability to evaluate quality play? But of course the media and fans will buy the "Haywood has magically improved" theory because they are eating out EJ's hand. Nobody will ever ask "Why wasn't this guy getting minutes all along?" And the worst part is that all it will take is a few games of Etan swinging his elbows and all of a sudden Haywood will be seen as "regressing" and people will start calling him "Brenda" again and he'll get benched in favor of a lesser player. It's frustratingly inevitable.

Wait wait, is this the 'Sissy-pants whining thread' again? Let me check. Nope, this thread is about solutions. Actually Haywood was improved in a few respects-- miller touched on a key factor: Brendan took a leadership role on court, brought consistent effort, had no breakdowns of sulking, stomping, half-assed effort, whining, slogan-writing. Now you can postulate that the reason for that was that he wasn't mistreated by the coach (or 'coaches', Remember Brendan earned the epither 'Brenda' well before Coach Eddie landed withthe team, most because of his tendency to shy away from contact and give lazy half-hearted effort at times). But don't let selective memory edit out the periodic chemistry issues that Brendan was involved in in the past, no matter who you assign blame to. And those issues did get in the way of his performance on-court. Not just in minutes played. No way this team would have won the games they did this year if they had the same factions and distractions. 'Free Chucky' crap and complaining about roles/minutes. Some part of Brendan's complaint in past years was that he wasn't recognized for the work that he was doing. This year the coach went out of his way to publicly praise him throughout the year. And rightly so.

And Brendan did play better. Not just individually, but from a team perspective. He worked his tail off to fix the free throw woes that help get him pulled in late-game situations. He took responsibility for teaching younger players, pointing out to Nick Young where to be and what to do (when a guy like Daniels stated he 'can't play' with guys who don't know the offense). Brendan taught them in-game. He definitely deserves praise for that. It also seemed like he shot fewer weak fadeaways, made smarter decisions with the ball. And frankly it took a ton of maturity to make amends with the Coach and re-dedicate himself to the team despite the late-season troubles and friction. No matter who you think deserves the blame for the friction, Brendan still deserves praise. His reaction to the issue was merely to dedicate himself over the summer to prove that he was the starting center with no question.

Anyway the point of the EJ quote was less about the discovery that Brendan is motivated more by raise than anger, and more about his role in the offense. Interesting to note that he's considered a primary low-post option when Caron is out of the game. What line-ups and sets could take advantage of that and exploit it? Whine if you want, but provide solutions, man! Ideas!

[doclinkin]

Lets talk rotations:

Who's the first man off the bench and why?

Who's the first guard off the bench?

First 'mid'?

First Big?

What's your rotation. Adjusted for circumstances. Remember EJ prefers to play 4 guards, 3 forwards, 2 centers. Does that rotation alter this year? If we carry 15, who is inactive? Gil, Javale, and ....

[nate33]

^ Considering that the quote was from EJ it doesn't surprise me that he hasn't been paying attention all these years. Haywood's percieved "improvement" is a product of him not losing minutes to the likes of Etan/Ruffin. Haywood didn't actually get better - he just played more minutes. There was finally a full season where EJ wasn't waiting for Haywood to do something wrong so that he could get his favorites into the game. He had to play Haywood and was forced to notice his good qualities.

Am I the only one who sees it as a problem that EJ thinks Haywood was a bum all these years (even tried to run him out of town) and now thinks that Haywood has magically improved? What does that say about our coach's ability to evaluate quality play? But of course the media and fans will buy the "Haywood has magically improved" theory because they are eating out EJ's hand. Nobody will ever ask "Why wasn't this guy getting minutes all along?" And the worst part is that all it will take is a few games of Etan swinging his elbows and all of a sudden Haywood will be seen as "regressing" and people will start calling him "Brenda" again and he'll get benched in favor of a lesser player. It's frustratingly inevitable.

Did Haywood improve last year, or did he just improve his free throw shooting? Here is a comparison of his performance in his five seasons under EJ on a per-40 basis. I've also included what his numbers would have looked like last year had he shot the same 58% from the FT line that he averaged over the preceding 4 years (marked with an asterisk).

Code: Select all

haywood,b  PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO  TS%  PER  MIN
2007-08*  14.9 10.7  1.3  0.6  2.5  2.0 .551 17.0 27.8
2007-08   15.8 10.7  1.3  0.6  2.5  2.0 .582 18.5 27.8
2006-07   11.6 10.8  1.1  0.8  2.0  2.0 .571 14.3 22.6
2005-06   12.3 10.0  1.0  0.6  2.2  2.1 .542 13.9 23.7
2004-05   13.6  9.9  1.2  1.1  2.4  2.1 .588 16.7 27.4
2003-04   14.6 10.5  1.2  0.9  2.7  2.2 .547 17.4 19.3

Ignoring the FT improvement, Haywood played a bit better than in the prior 2 years, but not really any better than he played in 03/04 and 04/05. Unsurprisingly, his improved play happens to correspond with increased minutes. (Of course, there's a "chicken and the egg" problem with drawing any conclusion from that observation.)

I gotta side with Rico here. Haywood has not made some kind of massive improvement thanks to EJ "reaching out" to Haywood in the offseason. EJ just let Haywood play and Haywood did his job like he always does. While I'm happy that EJ has finally figured out that Haywood is a good player and his best center, I'm not going to sit here and praise EJ for figuring out something that I figured out five years ago.

[doclinkin]

I gotta side with Rico here. Haywood has not made some kind of massive improvement thanks to EJ "reaching out" to Haywood in the offseason. EJ just let Haywood play and Haywood did his job like he always does. While I'm happy that EJ has finally figured out that Haywood is a good player and his best center, I'm not going to sit here and praise EJ for figuring out something that I figured out five years ago.

Re-read what I said without "Haywood's-bung" colored glasses.

No-one said his improvement had anything to do with Eddie reaching out to him. Nor did I state that he improved individually and statistically, beyond FT shooting -- which is a not-insignificant factor (ask Shaq) and is a stat that players rarely show improvement in (ask Shaq again).

Brendan grew up a ton, he was a positive factor in overall team attitude and chemistry. Not even a question.

Whomever was at fault, the fact is in past years he was an occasional distraction. Gilbert said Haywood should start because if he didn't he would sulk and check out, whereas Etan would bring 100% of his lesser talent whether starting or not. Caron and Jamison both have implied that Haywood had been a distraction. Coaches other than EJ (back to Bill Gutheridge in Carolina) noted that Brendan has given less than 100% effort in the past-- that at his best he's a game changer, but you don't always get his best. This year the team got his best, or near it, in every category.

I credit Brendan. He did work his tail off. Maybe a better coach would have gotten a better performance out of him earlier -- pointless to debate it. But you have to take the word for the players on the team. Brendan included. He gave no snide comments in the media, said nothing but positive things about the coach this year, gave nothing but professionalism.

From a coaching perspective: If the minutes are the only answer, what threshold of minutes must be surpassed before Brendan complains and checks out? Solutions people! Take the whining elsewhere. Complain if you want, but you must provide a positive theorum. Something to do or try to improve or fix.

[nate33]

Re-read what I said without "Haywood's-bung" colored glasses.

No-one said his improvement had anything to do with Eddie reaching out to him. Nor did I state that he improved individually and statistically, beyond FT shooting -- which is a not-insignificant factor (ask Shaq) and is a stat that players rarely show improvement in (ask Shaq again).

Don't get me wrong, doc. I wasn't taking a shot at you. I didn't mean to imply that you were crediting EJ for Haywood's improvement.

I just mean that Rico has a good point that there's no reason to praise EJ for his recent compliments about Haywood. We shouldn't praise somebody for belatedly recognizing the obvious.

Heck, I think Haywood should get even more praise. We actually had a Big Three last year, and Haywood was one of them. Yet, to this day he remains perhaps the most underrated player in the game. I can't believe how many top centers lists that show up on the Player Comparison's board (or ESPN or FoxSports etc.) that don't even have Haywood cracking the top 20, or even the top 25. They put guys like Eddy Curry, Al Horford, Brad Miller and Kendrick Perkins ahead of him. I saw one list that ranked Andrew Bynum 3rd and Brendan Haywood 20th! Talk about hype differential.

[doclinkin]

Gotcha.

Still, since this is the strategy and tactics thread, the point you inadvertently raise is interesting. Haywood's numbers do seem to drop off with his minutes, or vice versa. If we state positively that his performance follows his time, how long is reasonable to expect him to play?

And if his role in the front court tends to trade off with Caron's presence on court-- what non-Caron line-ups can he play in that maximize his strengths.

[nate33]

Gotcha.

Still, since this is the strategy and tactics thread, the point you inadvertently raise is interesting. Haywood's numbers do seem to drop off with his minutes, or vice versa. If we state positively that his performance follows his time, how long is reasonable to expect him to play?

And if his role in the front court tends to trade off with Caron's presence on court-- what non-Caron line-ups can he play in that maximize his strengths.

I tried to put together a post showing how I'd like to do the lineups and rotations, but then I decided that I sounded like Hands11. Nobody wants to see a long series of player's intials. It's boring.

To keep it succinct, my lineup would have 4 criterias:
* The Big Three play 36 minutes a piece (perhaps just 34 for Butler) Any more is asking for injuries, any less is a waste of talent.
* Haywood plays 30-32 minutes, but with no stretches longer than 9 minutes (he generally tires at the end of quarters). The first 9 minutes and last 7 minutes of each half sounds good to me.
* One of Butler or Jamison should be on the court at all times.
* Arenas should be in the game at the end of each quarter to handle the potential isolation play.

I don't really care how to set up the roster as long as these criteria are met.

One possibility would be to play Arenas, Stevenson, Jamison and Haywood the first and last 9 minutes of each half. The bench plays from the last 9 minutes of the first and third through the first 3 minutes of the 2nd and fourth. Butler would rest at the 6-9 minute mark in the first and third, and at the 3-6 minute mark in the second and fourth and then comes back in alongside the 2nd unit. Blatche spells Butler and then stays on with the 2nd unit.

So our starters would be:
Arenas, Stevenson, Butler, Jamison, Haywood - with Blatche replacing Butler for 12 of their 36 minutes.

Our second unit would be:
Daniels, Young, Butler, Blatche, Etan - and they'd play 12 minutes a game (except Blatche who plays 24).

[LyricalRico]

I just mean that Rico has a good point that there's no reason to praise EJ for his recent compliments about Haywood. We shouldn't praise somebody for belatedly recognizing the obvious.

One possibility would be to play Arenas, Stevenson, Jamison and Haywood the first and last 9 minutes of each half. The bench plays from the last 9 minutes of the first and third through the first 3 minutes of the 2nd and fourth. Butler would rest at the 6-9 minute mark in the first and third, and at the 3-6 minute mark in the second and fourth and then comes back in alongside the 2nd unit. Blatche spells Butler and then stays on with the 2nd unit.

So our starters would be:
Arenas, Stevenson, Butler, Jamison, Haywood - with Blatche replacing Butler for 12 of their 36 minutes.

Our second unit would be:
Daniels, Young, Butler, Blatche, Etan - and they'd play 12 minutes a game (except Blatche who plays 24).

I would support that. Heck, I'd support any kind of actual rotation that's not based on "feel" or running the starters into the ground. Jerry Sloan for years would take Stockton out at a certain minute mark in the first quarter. It didn't matter what the score was. He did the same with the other starters.

When a coach does that, I think it makes everyone more effective because nobody has to wonder what their role will be from game to game. If guys know how many minutes they'll get and when they'll get them, it's much easier to prepare and execute.

[pancakes3]

i agree with the methodical distribution of minutes. The NBA is different from the NFL in the respect that you don't have time to gameplan. To trot out a different unit based on matchup strengths or even more micromanaging, a game flow situation, would destroy continuity. Now is the time for EJ to gameplan a strategy that would average out and win us 45+ games, and then play frankenstein in the postseason to come up with a hybrid lineup that matches up favorably with the opposition.

sidenote: if dee brown is going to have a juan dixon-esque role on this team, what role will juan dixon have?

[Kanyewest]

The book on Haywood during the early portion of his career is that he would give you the same production over 15 minutes that he would over the course of 30 minutes. Now his conditioning has improved and he has reaped a lot of the benefits with a career high in double doubles. Heck he opened the season with 3 straight double double, hence he earned the trust of EJ throughout the season.