The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009

[Ruzious]

CCJ, could Blair play center in the Unseld mold, or is the NBA too entrenched in new school to even try something like that?

Yes, he can.

Wes played against Alcindor/Jabbar, Walton, Sikma, Paultz, all at their best. When the Bullets added another great rebounder/scorer at F and a great coach, they won one NBA title. Had a 60-win season, too. In fairness, having a short C really hurt them in 1974/75 against Golden State's C, George Johnson IIRC. Dude was an eraser of a shot blocker. So, in that matchup, Wes didn't fare too well. However, 90% of the time, leverage was a beast for taller guys to deal with.

Ruz, I'm positive with the lanky dudes the Wiz already have Blair could be a much better C than Songaila.

you left out some rather notables, HOFers that Wes battled against -
how about Wilt and even Russell maybe for a year, Cowens certainly,
Gilmore, Nate Thurmond. And Jerry Lucas too.

The year (Wes) being short REALLY hurt them I'd argue was in the 71 Finals.
Alcindor owned Wes. In fairness to Wes, at that time, Alcindor owned
the entire league. The closest we've come to that level of scoring since
was MJ for a year or 2 in his heyday.

Cowens and Thurmond - how did I forget them. And Lucas got poopooed for being a PF playing Center (when Reed was injured), but nobody knew how to defend him - because centers weren't supposed to be able to shoot from outside like he did. It really was a golden age for centers.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Here's my list of intriguing 2nd round prospects:

Wes Matthews, Marquette SG/SF (edited)

Trevor Booker, Clemson SF/PF (edited)

Eric Maynor,VCU PG (edited)

DeMarre Carroll, Missouri SF/PF
Very solid player who's stepping up his senior year. Has improved every season. Stats suggest he can score and defend at SF.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/DeM ... 069/stats/

Jack McClinton, Miami (FL) PG/SG (edited)

Very simply, I think the Wizards should get mature players. Guys who've played 3 or 4 NCAA seasons in winning programs against top competition. The players above seem to be the kind of guys who could supply unusual consistency for rookies if they stick.

Reposted tonight with Carroll having 22 pts, 7 rebs in Mizzou's win over Kansas. The Tigers have also beaten USC and Texas this season. Carroll's getting better as the season goes on. This kid is becoming my early on favorite player in this draft.

http://mutigers.cstv.com/sports/m-baskb ... rre00.html

Nicknamed the Junkyard Dog because of his toughness and relentless play ... Played most of his junior season with an ankle injury, but reached double figures in scoring a team-leading 22 times ... Paced the club and ranked among the Big 12's leaders in rebounds and steals for post players because of his tenacity on defense ... Undersized post performer that makes up for his size with quickness and toughness ... Has graduated from college and is working towards his graduate degree.

Last, he's faced Durant, Beasley, and Griffin already in the NCAAs. His profile reminds of that of Salmons when he was at Miami. Not the size/game, but the fact that he played 4 years and was very competitive and got better all four years. Plus, high-character dude to have graduated already.

[Rafael122]

CCJ - No Jerel McNeal (who I think is better than Mathews) or do you think its b/c McNeal is a first round pick?

[barelyawake]

"The Wiz would have to tank again next year to reach the Wall." Well, two ways to do it -- blow-up the team or trade for a future draft pick (with a good chance of being a top pick). We will do neither, and that's the part of EG's GMing that bugs me. He's stopped taking risks with our team. I love the way EG rebuilds broken players. I love the way he combs the second round and free agency for steals. Lots to love. What I hate is the lack of gamble in his game lately (which I understand from a keeping your job perspective). Trading our future firsts and trading for future firsts is my idea of gambling. That's what I've been advocating for years. EG develops; picks what he wants to keep; and lets the rest walk. We need more developing, then trading (which is hard with so many injuries). And we need more deciding not to develop, and trading for future picks. We keep getting the front end of EG's ability to judge talent, without the back end of a good trade for their value.

A trade for JO (for instance, or Martin back when Martin was on the block) or Brand, where we give up players we don't need and get a future first back serves us two ways -- we push now and bank the future (like what the Spurs do with foreign picks). I'm sure there is a team that needs Blatche or Young, and has a vet we could use, and will give us a future first for them (especially if they need expiring contracts -- which we have). They get youth and a chance to clear their books. And we get a vet ready to contribute and a lottery ticket for John Wall (or whoever). I've seen a ton of GMs make moves like that, and we never do. That element of GMing, meshed with EG's other talents, would make us a contender for the next decade. Why take Opec, when you could get a future first that could turn into Blake? Why take a Harden, when you can get Des Mas (or the like) and a future first? I don't see any player available worth a future first now (though there have been a few during EG's tenure), so why not collect them for when there is one (and vets to boot)?

There has to be an assessment, not of whether x player will be a good player, but is x player a championship player. And if he isn't, you trade him for a chance at one the first chance his value peaks (which might even be draft night). We should have done that with Hughes, and traded him when he had value (for a vet and a future first). Championship players are tough; have a deep work ethic; play both ways and are the right size/speed to play against the best player in that position. Players not fitting the above ought to be traded.

The more I look at it, the more I like the idea of:
Holiday/Crit
Rudy
Caron/Dom
Aldridge/McGee
Haywood/McGee

That's one piece away from really looking good. And we still have Blatche, Young, Opec, future firsts and expiring contracts to get us there. Throw a JO on there and MLE a vet SG, and I'm close to thinking that is the best option (which we will never do).
/end babblefest (most of which doesn't fit this catagory)

[Ruzious]

CCJ, what do you see Carroll doing in the NBA? He's not a great rebounder or shot-blocker even in college - using the per 40 pace adjusted stats. And the scouting report says he's got no perimeter game - offensively or defensively. Sounds like a poor man's Renaldo Blackman.

[mhd]

I think my order of preference is:

1) Hill
2) Griffin
3) Harden
4) Monroe
5) Holliday
6) Rubio

[Ed Wood]

CCJ, what do you see Carroll doing in the NBA? He's not a great rebounder or shot-blocker even in college - using the per 40 pace adjusted stats. And the scouting report says he's got no perimeter game - offensively or defensively. Sounds like a poor man's Renaldo Blackman.

The two players are similar in that they're undersized, pretty athletic, work HARD all the time, and rock the dreads but it's worth remembering that Balkman wasn't a focal point in the Gamecock offense. Balkman (and Dominic McGuire actually, whose performance in college looks an awful lot like Balkman's, with more rebounds and blocks but fewer points and more turnovers), were even more opportunistic and system reliant than Carroll is. Carroll is vastly more important to the Tigers' offense than Balkman ever was in South Carolina, Mike Anderson runs plays for Carroll, I don't think that was ever true of Balkman. Carroll isn't the shot blocker Balkman was, and probably isn't as quick off of his feet, but he's taller and physically bigger. He contributes about as much as a rebounder, and when he receives the ball facing the basket inside of the arc his defender has to respect his ability to drive or, occasionally, to shoot. With a little work I'd have more confidence in Carroll's ability to hit mid range jump shots reliably than I do Balkman's.

On the other hand he's clearly a nice fit for the Missouri system, and he does rely a lot on the transition game, cutting off of the ball, and cleaning up missed shots to get his points. Anyway, he could be a solid role player but he's not a guy I dream about getting at the top of the second round. If he were to go undrafted, however, (I doubt it) I'd love to give him an invite to the summer league and I think he'd stick (or that he'll stick somewhere, he might be a little too much like Dominic to work well here). Leo Lyons, his partner in crime is actually having a very similar season, but is both more of a power forward (he's bigger and slower, though not a plodder) and probably a better perimeter shooter.

Edit: The Tigers are also a ton of fun to watch this year.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ - No Jerel McNeal (who I think is better than Mathews) or do you think its b/c McNeal is a first round pick?

McNeal is the better prospect and I think he'll go round one. I like Matthew's stats because he gets to the line and puts pressure on opponents, but McNeal buries threes and has bounce and gets steals.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jerel-McNeal-1161/

Interestingly, DX currently projects McNeal as the 7th pick of the 2nd round. They rate Marquettes Dominic James as the 24 th pick of the 2nd round, and Wesley Matthews as the 26th pick of the 2nd round.
http://www.draftexpress.com/clubhouse/Marquette-179/

If ever a group of guys had motivation to make it to the Final 4 it should be Marquette. McNeal can get to round one and James and Matthews can move up in round two.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, what do you see Carroll doing in the NBA? He's not a great rebounder or shot-blocker even in college - using the per 40 pace adjusted stats. And the scouting report says he's got no perimeter game - offensively or defensively. Sounds like a poor man's Renaldo Blackman.

Early round 2 would be too early. I just like this kid's makeup.

I don't know what Carroll will do at the next level other than defend hard and compete at both ends. I like his toughness and maturity.

I dont' necessarily believe the scouting report at all about his perimeter game on either side of the ball.

[Notorious_1]

I think if we somehow do manage to get lucky enough to get the first pick and Griffin, then we need to go after a UNC's Danny Green.

I know he's been mentioned on here before and I'm still on the bandwagon. He has has great size at 6'6 210, which will allow him to play the SG or SF positions. He's a very good defender, something we don't have many of. He's elevated his game every season and is shooting a very impressive 47% from the 3. He's currently a senior at an elite basketball school in UNC.

I think he's the type of player this team is missing. A player that doesn't need to dominate the ball, knocks down open shots, and plays good defensive at the 2 or 3. He could be our perfect starting SG. He could be everything Deshawn was supposed to be.

Just imagine a line up in the future of:

Gil/Critt
Green/Young
Butler/Green/McGuire
Jamison/Griffin/Blatche
Haywood/McGee

Song, Opec, James, Stevenson

I think he's one of those player we can pick right at the beginning of the 2nd round. IMHO I think he could turn into one of those players like D. Christie with the Kings or our version of B. Bowen. Solid but just as important role players that elevate their teams to the next level. That's just my 2 cent.

[Ruzious]

Totally agree, Notorious. Duke/UNC last night had my dream matchup of Green v. Henderson. Green won it - though Henderson got him in foul trouble. It was hard for either of them to look good offensively, because both are great defenders. Christie is probably the best comparison - though Christie was a flashier offensive player at Pepperdine, and Green is a little stronger than Christie was.

[Notorious_1]

I hope that Grunfield is smart enough to see his value, pick him, and actually keep him. I would be furious if he did like he did with Bill Walker and just sold him for cash.

With Griffin and Green I would be perfectly content with packaging Jamison and fillers for expiring contracts. I don't think we would miss a beat as far as scoring, and we would get better defensively on the wings and in the paint. Griffin's not the greatest defender now but I believe he has all the potential to be an average to above average defender in the league, which is way better than Jamison.

[Benjammin]

I think my order of preference is:

1) Hill
2) Griffin
3) Harden
4) Monroe
5) Holliday
6) Rubio

My order today would be:

1. Griffin
2. Monroe
3. Hill
4. Harden
5. Holiday
6. Rubio (if he declares)

Interesting 2nd round types

1. Danny Green, (yeah I'm on that bandwagon)
2. SF Omri Casspi (international player) haven't seen him play except clips
3. PG Sergio Llull (international player) haven't seen him play except clips

[dobrojim]

If Ty Lawson could play against over-rated Duke personnel all the time,
he'd be a lock for the high lotto. He dominated that game last night.

He's going to help himself a lot if he keeps it up.

[mhd]

If Ty Lawson could play against over-rated Duke personnel all the time,
he'd be a lock for the high lotto. He dominated that game last night.

He's going to help himself a lot if he keeps it up.

I don't like Lawson at all. He's short. There's exactly one short PG and that's Ford.

[dobrojim]

watched OK for a bit last night too

Griffin wasn't that impressive from what I saw.
I could kinda detect potential there, but that's all it was.
For that one game. I guess even if you're the best player in
college, you still are not going to dominate every night.

[Dat2U]

My order of preference thus far:

1. PF Blake Griffin
2. PF Greg Monroe
3. PG Stephon Curry (in a trade down scenario)
4. PF Jordan Hill
5. PG Jrue Holiday
6. PG Ricky Rubio
7. PG Jeff Teague
8. SG Gerald Henderson
9. SG Evan Turner
10. SF Earl Clark

Guys I don't like for one reason or another
1. SG James Harden...not a top 3 pick, waaay overrated
2. C Hasheem Thabeet...not a need. Too limited offensively
3. PG Brandon Jennings
4. C B.J. Mullens

Sleepers I like later in the draft:

1. PG Eric Maynor
2. PF DeJuan Blair
3. SF DaJuan Summers

[nate33]

watched OK for a bit last night too

Griffin wasn't that impressive from what I saw.
I could kinda detect potential there, but that's all it was.
For that one game. I guess even if you're the best player in
college, you still are not going to dominate every night.

Agreed.

I watched some of that game and a I came away unimpressed. The thing I noticed most was that he seems very slow with his decision-making on defense. It's like he has to stop and think about where he needs to be before he gets there. He just doesn't have natural defensive instincts. There were at least two occassions where the opposing team's guards broke down Oklahoma's defense and got into the lane. Griffin was close enough to close off the lane and force a difficult shot; instead, he froze for a moment and by the time he reacted, the guard had already dunked the ball. It's almost like he'd rather box out his man and grab a rebound (to build up his stats) rather than rotate over and force a bad shot or an extra pass.

It's just one game though. I readily cede that he may have simply been out of synch for some reason.

[Benjammin]

I didn't see the game or that particular play, but in other games it seems like Griffin is very cognizant of not getting into foul trouble. That may play into how he handles himself defensively. I don't foresee Griffin being an outstanding defensive player, but he has the raw tools to be a competent one.

[Ruzious]

If Ty Lawson could play against over-rated Duke personnel all the time,
he'd be a lock for the high lotto. He dominated that game last night.

He's going to help himself a lot if he keeps it up.

I agree with you and disagree with mhd. He's bigger than Augustin who looked pretty damn good against the Wiz last night. And Lawson is very strong - he's really added muscle in his UNC career. And you're right jim, with all the quality players on the court - he clearly was the dominant force in the game. I lost count of how many layups he got. Paulus has no chance of ever coming close to guarding him. I used to give Collison a slight edge over Lawson - not anymore - because Lawson is much stronger physically and will be much more effective in the NBA at penetrating. If anything, I think Lawson's underrated and should be a top 10 pick.