ImageImageImageImageImage

Wizards in the Media Thread

Moderators: LyricalRico, nate33, montestewart

User avatar
bulletproof_32
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,596
And1: 40
Joined: Oct 25, 2005
 

Re: Wizards in the Media Thread 

Post#61 » by bulletproof_32 » Tue Jan 6, 2009 9:15 pm

Re: “tanking” vs playoffs:

(For the record I’m with dobrojim and others on the tanking issue - I’m opposed to the idea of deliberately losing games (in the sense that I don’t think it’s wise to create a culture where losing is accepted/ expected)).

I think it would be nearly impossible for this squad to make the playoffs but I wouldn’t be the least bit upset if they squeaked in. I know lots of folks are penciling the Wiz in for a top 5 pick and are in favor of tanking but honestly when I look at the standings I think the Wiz will eventually surpass all 6 of the Western teams already out of playoff contention (OKC, MIN, MEM, LAC, SAC, GSW). And it wouldn’t surprise me if they catch a team or three in the East.

Jamison’s quote comparing this Wiz team to his old GS team basically confirmed it for me – the Wiz aren’t going to quit but at some point some other non playoff teams around the league will know “it’s over” and start mailing it in; in the meantime the Wiz will slowly but surely pass them up in the standings (and Ji will remind us in ever game thread that this team CAN’T EVEN TANK RIGHT!). I know it’s not the ideal scenario but this is exactly how I see the season playing out.

So, without some extreme luck on lotto night the Wiz are more than likely going to end up picking in the mid to late lotto range.

At some point I suspect the discussion in the draft thread will shift entirely from “who should we draft with our top 5 pick?” to “what can we get for a mid/ late lotto pick/2010 expirings/ young prospect?” (to which the only reply should be: it doesn’t matter who we trade for as long as they are a two way true all star long wingspan player with off the charts lane agility scores..oh and also able to hold his man below his scoring average and shooting percentage).
User avatar
dandridge 10
Veteran
Posts: 2,500
And1: 537
Joined: Feb 16, 2005

Re: Wizards in the Media Thread 

Post#62 » by dandridge 10 » Tue Jan 6, 2009 9:23 pm

fishercob wrote:7 or 8 tonight?


8 tonight. You coming?
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 67,116
And1: 19,437
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Wizards in the Media Thread 

Post#63 » by nate33 » Tue Jan 6, 2009 10:44 pm

Wow. Good thread here. A couple of points:

CCJ, I had no idea Love was crashing the boards so well. A 16.4 offensive rebounding percentage is flat out nuts. Last year, Haywood was 2nd in the league in offensive rebounding percentage at 14.0. And FWIW, offensive rebounding percentage already accounts for the fact that Minnesota misses a lot of shots. He doesn't get an statistical advantage by being on a sucky team. (You should ignore his offensive rebound totals though, stick with ORb%.) All that said, Minnesota is still a terrible team despite having Miller and Al Jefferson as established players. Love can't be all that good if they still suck as a team.

Fishercob, I don't buy the "hiding McGee" strategy. Hiding McGee doesn't give Blatche any more value. If we're going to work out a trade, it's in our best interests to maximize the value of both Blatche and McGee.

mhd, we would avoid the luxtax simply by dumping James. We don't have to do anything else. In fact, as long as we avoid a top 3 pick, we should only be about $4M above the luxtax. Dumping either Stevenson or Songaila would also get the job done.

I think we should try hard to win games, but only by utilizing our young players in the process. I absolutely don't want us to deliberately lose games by playing easy; but at the same time, I think we should try to keep Jamison and Butler's minutes at 36 or less and we should see generous minutes for Blatche, DMac, Young and McGee. Stevenson should be buried for at least a month. And Etan should never get off the bench (unless EG has reason to believe that he can be dumped if he was showcased).
hands11
Banned User
Posts: 31,171
And1: 2,444
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Nice Mike Wise Article on the Wizards 

Post#64 » by hands11 » Tue Jan 6, 2009 10:50 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Wow, hands beat me to it by three minutes and he brought FACTS. ...



You are a funny man CCJ. :)

I do like to talk line ups and bringing facts tends to help sometimes also :)
hands11
Banned User
Posts: 31,171
And1: 2,444
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Nice Mike Wise Article on the Wizards 

Post#65 » by hands11 » Tue Jan 6, 2009 11:13 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
cwb3 wrote:Y'all should read some of the comments posted to the Post on Wise's article! :lol: There is still a lot of Haywood hate out there, and one guy (perhaps being sarcastic) calling Etan a potential all star who can do it all! :crazy: Lots of people still making the claim that we can still make the playoffs. (I know Hands and CCJ do as well, respect). But I agree with Wise and Haywood, the rest of this year should be all about developing the young players and preserving the health of the veterans.

I'll still still watch and attend some game. . .I promise! :D

cwb3, note my new signature.

I'm all for playing the young players.

Just so happens that I'm of the opinion they've played the young players and won 3 of the last 5. They can keep doing the same thing and MAYBE play .600 ball the rest of the way. They play their best ball so far with Dom and Andray playing big minutes. I think Nick and Javale won't hurt them, either, in limited minutes.

Even playing some of Jamison's and Butler's minutes, the young guys have young legs. McGuire is only going to get better. (Not so sure about Young.) So is Blatche.

I think developing the young players while still winning games is the way to go. They can do both.



Again, for me, it's a lot to do about Nick Young right now. He is the biggest Tapps project because he has the skills to make us a lot better right now. Nick Youngs issues are not physical, they are mental. They are maturity.

I have seen some progress in that area with him very recently but I also still see him doing the 1 on 4 fast break thing. I think Tapps is getting through to him. I like Tapps as a coach. A lot actually.

Get Nick Young straight and get him hitting the 3 ball again, and this team in instantly a notch better. Specially when you add that move he can do down the lane for a dunk. +1 would be nice also. NY is a second year player. That light bulb can go on at any time now.

Other then that, we just need James to be more consistant with his 3 ball and shot selection until we get Gilbert back.

This is a good team and they have a good coach. I think a lot of people got a bad perception of the talent we have here because of how things started.

Now that the adjustments have been made to the rotations and the system.... and players like Blatche and DMAC have gotten thier minutes....you can see what CB and AJ bring a little better.

And if you stop and think for a moment how well we have played against some top teams after the way things got started... with only CB and AJ as the core... you should be amazed at how good this talent is because. These guys never gave up... and...

We have done it without Haywood our best center....and
Gilbert... our best 4th quarter one-on-one player

That my friends is pretty amazing.

Our record in no way tells the story of how good this team is.
fishercob
RealGM
Posts: 13,922
And1: 1,571
Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Location: Tenleytown, DC

Re: Wizards in the Media Thread 

Post#66 » by fishercob » Tue Jan 6, 2009 11:17 pm

dandridge 10 wrote:
fishercob wrote:7 or 8 tonight?


8 tonight. You coming?


I think so, but I won't last long.
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way."
— Steve Martin
fishercob
RealGM
Posts: 13,922
And1: 1,571
Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Location: Tenleytown, DC

Re: Wizards in the Media Thread 

Post#67 » by fishercob » Tue Jan 6, 2009 11:20 pm

Nate, I understand that my hiding Mcgee theory is pretty whacked out. It's not something will ever know the answer to, because no one in the know would ever admit it.

While hiding him on the bench doesn't necessarily enhance Blatche's value, it does "guide" our potential trade partners a bit, in that they have a lot more info to go on Blatche than on McGee.
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way."
— Steve Martin
hands11
Banned User
Posts: 31,171
And1: 2,444
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Wizards in the Media Thread 

Post#68 » by hands11 » Tue Jan 6, 2009 11:21 pm

fishercob wrote:
dandridge 10 wrote:
fishercob wrote:7 or 8 tonight?


8 tonight. You coming?


I think so, but I won't last long.


So you guys balling somewhere ?
User avatar
doclinkin
RealGM
Posts: 13,269
And1: 5,393
Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Location: .wizuds.

Re: Nice Mike Wise Article on the Wizards 

Post#69 » by doclinkin » Wed Jan 7, 2009 5:42 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
"Two years ago, I wasn't playing, Eddie Jordan and I were at each other's throats and I was basically gone," he said. "Now me and Eddie text each other on Christmas, people come up to me and say how much they miss me being out there . . . it's just crazy how things change."


Tells you something about the quality and character of both Eddie Jordan and Brendan Haywood.

Jordan is truly a class act and I'm glad he and Brendan got past their differences.


It also says to me positive things about the Wiz' chances to resign Brendan to finish his career here. Finally he gets the vindication and appreciation he always craved-- so long as he can regain and continue to perform at that highwater mark he established last year.
Dat2U
RealGM
Posts: 23,541
And1: 7,123
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Location: Columbus, OH
       

Re: Nice Mike Wise Article on the Wizards 

Post#70 » by Dat2U » Wed Jan 7, 2009 8:47 pm

hands11 wrote:Yeah, Wise is probably my favorite writers and he laid out a really good case. I figured this would make it as a threat with all the people who have wanted us to tank.

It is a hard case to argue against. Really. It makes good sense.

But one thing he may have gotten wrong was his 42-40 mark and what we need to do to make the playoffs. Here is what it took the last 3 years.

2007 8th Place ATL 37-45 .451
2006 8th Place ATL 40-42 .488
2005 8th Place MIK 40-42 .488

Currently in 2008 that 8th spot could be had for a .472 record 39-43

@ .472 we have to go 32-18 .627 to get there. That's between as good as Miami and Detroit 5th and 6th best in the conference. We just took down Cleveland the 3rd best twice .818, @Houston .600, and were robbed @NO .667

but if it was what it was last year .451 then we need to go 30-20 .600

There is still a very small small window. Tonights game while it is a long shot would be huge in helping us keep hope alive if everything falls into place but bigger then this game is what we do after this one. We have to go on like a 7-1 run against much easier talent.

Wed, Jan 7, 2009 Toronto Raptors
Fri, Jan 9, 2009 @ Chicago Bulls
Sat, Jan 10, 2009 Charlotte Bobcats
Mon, Jan 12, 2009 Milwaukee Bucks
Wed, Jan 14, 2009 @ New York Knickerbockers
Fri, Jan 16, 2009 New York Knickerbockers
Mon, Jan 19, 2009 @ Golden State Warriors

If we don't find ourselves on a run through these games, this thing will officially be shut down.

Everything has to go just right and if it does, it would be an awesome story but it is a long shot. We should knew the story of this season in about a week.


Ok, I'll play along for a second. Say we go on this great run...finish something like 39-43 and squeak into the playoffs. We get Bahston in the first round. Yeah, we maintain our current streak of making the playoffs (which seems very very important to the organization), but were nothing more than first round fodder for an elite team. All that hard work, for what? Losing in 5 or 6 games and ending up with the 15th pick in the draft?

I don't see what there is to get all excited about. Help me out. Just making the playoffs makes sense for a team that hasn't been there in a while or a young franchise like Atlanta that is hoping to improve every year but where is the value in us squeaking in? So Etan, Songaila & James can get plently of minutes while our youngins are glued to the bench?
Dat2U
RealGM
Posts: 23,541
And1: 7,123
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Location: Columbus, OH
       

Re: Nice Mike Wise Article on the Wizards 

Post#71 » by Dat2U » Wed Jan 7, 2009 9:29 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Honestly, I'm not even objective about trading Jamison any more. I hope he retires a Wizard, unless he asks for a deal elsewhere.

Dat hates him, but I love the guy's character and am a fan of his game. He's the best player on the Wizards team right now. In my mind, even compared to Caron, I believe Jamison at SF would be hard for most teams to handle. I'm hard-pressed to find anybody his size who rebounds like he does while being a scorer. He is a very good player.

What really impresses me about Jamison is that he misses few games and has played all out this season, even with the team having a terrible record.

Dat, I think he is a leader of men.

Aside from limitations on defense, I think the only problem with him is fatigue late in games. I stared the thread called "The Lunacy of Playing Jamison 40 Minutes. My take on it is the man's undersized at PF and tends to get worn down at the end of games. Perhaps he takes a play or two off on defense due to sheer exhaustion. I think Jamison gives good effort but would be at his best for 34-36 minutes a night, especially with some of those minutes at SF. Jamison could play harder on the defensive end in those minutes IMO.

I've even seen him defend better the past couple seasons. What he still does is let certain plays go.

Overall, I like Jamison and think he's a winner an and off the court. I kind of get pissed when I see trade ideas like James to Cleveland for Szczerbiak and other filler for cap relief.


I really hope he doesn't retire a Wizard. He may be a winner off the court but his career has been predicated by losing. He's never won anything of significance in the NBA. The year his team had the most success is when he played off the bench in Dallas, something he openly stated that he hated doing although it was in the team's best interest that he not start.

I've long viewed Jamison as someone who provides faux leadership. He talks a good game for sure. He's smart, articulate and gives a good interview. What I'd like to remind people is that Jamison IS this team's leader. And this team has never won more than 45 games and never one a 2nd round game. This team's defense has been consistently horrible, and the foundation of its gimmicky defensive strategies is the hide Jamison's presence on the court.

As someone who's watched Jamison closely on D the past few years, I've seen far too many lackadasical efforts when it comes to rotating on D, closing out on shooters and putting a body on his man. I'll never forget when he refused to close off the baseline against LeBron a few years ago in the playoffs because he was "scared to get a foul call". A good leader doesn't act or think like that. We always seem to make excuses for Jamison on D, we blow off as just a physical shortcoming he has and fail to acknowledge that most of the problems isn't about limitations, its about willingness to sacrifice and put forth effort.

Jamison is great at avoiding contact at all costs in an effort to prolong his career. He's an expert at shielding his body. He can certainly teach the youngins how to put up empty offensive numbers while not impacting wins and losses and how to be really respected without giving much effort on one side of the court.

Also considering Jamison's outbursts at the kids earlier this season when it was the veterans whose performance was really lacking, I'm surprised at how many Jamison supporters we still have around. He was quick to throw the kids under the bus even when he was struggling himself. That may be the sign of a veteran leader but not necessarily a good one.

Give me the cap room, flexibility or whatever we can get in a Jamison trade. Someone else can step up in his place and take the scoring, rebounding & the leadership. At 7-26, I don't think it's something that will be greatly missed.
User avatar
dandridge 10
Veteran
Posts: 2,500
And1: 537
Joined: Feb 16, 2005

Re: Wizards in the Media Thread 

Post#72 » by dandridge 10 » Wed Jan 7, 2009 9:42 pm

I'm with you Dat on playing the youngsters. Although I don't advocate purposefully losing games, I see no reason whatsoever to keep giving Butler and Jamison big minutes why players like McGee, Young, and Critt languish on the bench. Yeah, playing Butler and Jamison more will give us the best chance of winning, but the best case scenario (and unlikely one) is that the Wizards squeak in the playoffs and get bounced out by Boston very quickly.

Play the youngins, play them a lot, and urge them to play with passion. Ultimately, we will lose more games just because the youngins are just not that good enough or just don't know how to win, but we will lose with the dignity that we played with effort and the youngins will gain the experience they need to take it to another level next year (or management will know who does not fit in our long range plans)

I don't buy the theory that losing more games by playing the youngsters will create a "losing atmosphere" that will effect the Wizards in the future. These are professional players we are talking about. Most would not be where they are today if they weren't extremely competitive. If anything, the Wizards will come back even more determined next year when they know they are healthy.

My guess is that the Wizards organization is worried that playing the youngsters more will convey the impression that they have given up this year, which could ultimately effect ticket sales. While it may affect some people's decision to buy a ticket, I know that there are a lot of fans that would rather watch the youngins play to see how they do with more time on the court, than watch us lose with Butler and Jamison playing 40 minutes a night. I'm one of them.
User avatar
dandridge 10
Veteran
Posts: 2,500
And1: 537
Joined: Feb 16, 2005

Re: Nice Mike Wise Article on the Wizards 

Post#73 » by dandridge 10 » Wed Jan 7, 2009 10:19 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Honestly, I'm not even objective about trading Jamison any more. I hope he retires a Wizard, unless he asks for a deal elsewhere.

Dat hates him, but I love the guy's character and am a fan of his game. He's the best player on the Wizards team right now. In my mind, even compared to Caron, I believe Jamison at SF would be hard for most teams to handle. I'm hard-pressed to find anybody his size who rebounds like he does while being a scorer. He is a very good player.

What really impresses me about Jamison is that he misses few games and has played all out this season, even with the team having a terrible record.

Dat, I think he is a leader of men.

Aside from limitations on defense, I think the only problem with him is fatigue late in games. I stared the thread called "The Lunacy of Playing Jamison 40 Minutes. My take on it is the man's undersized at PF and tends to get worn down at the end of games. Perhaps he takes a play or two off on defense due to sheer exhaustion. I think Jamison gives good effort but would be at his best for 34-36 minutes a night, especially with some of those minutes at SF. Jamison could play harder on the defensive end in those minutes IMO.

I've even seen him defend better the past couple seasons. What he still does is let certain plays go.

Overall, I like Jamison and think he's a winner an and off the court. I kind of get pissed when I see trade ideas like James to Cleveland for Szczerbiak and other filler for cap relief.


I really hope he doesn't retire a Wizard. He may be a winner off the court but his career has been predicated by losing. He's never won anything of significance in the NBA. The year his team had the most success is when he played off the bench in Dallas, something he openly stated that he hated doing although it was in the team's best interest that he not start.

I've long viewed Jamison as someone who provides faux leadership. He talks a good game for sure. He's smart, articulate and gives a good interview. What I'd like to remind people is that Jamison IS this team's leader. And this team has never won more than 45 games and never one a 2nd round game. This team's defense has been consistently horrible, and the foundation of its gimmicky defensive strategies is the hide Jamison's presence on the court.

As someone who's watched Jamison closely on D the past few years, I've seen far too many lackadasical efforts when it comes to rotating on D, closing out on shooters and putting a body on his man. I'll never forget when he refused to close off the baseline against LeBron a few years ago in the playoffs because he was "scared to get a foul call". A good leader doesn't act or think like that. We always seem to make excuses for Jamison on D, we blow off as just a physical shortcoming he has and fail to acknowledge that most of the problems isn't about limitations, its about willingness to sacrifice and put forth effort.

Jamison is great at avoiding contact at all costs in an effort to prolong his career. He's an expert at shielding his body. He can certainly teach the youngins how to put up empty offensive numbers while not impacting wins and losses and how to be really respected without giving much effort on one side of the court.

Also considering Jamison's outbursts at the kids earlier this season when it was the veterans whose performance was really lacking, I'm surprised at how many Jamison supporters we still have around. He was quick to throw the kids under the bus even when he was struggling himself. That may be the sign of a veteran leader but not necessarily a good one.

Give me the cap room, flexibility or whatever we can get in a Jamison trade. Someone else can step up in his place and take the scoring, rebounding & the leadership. At 7-26, I don't think it's something that will be greatly missed.


My wife would never believe what I am about to say because she thinks I'm a Jamison hater, but I think you sell Jamison a little short Dat. I would agree that the Wizards are never going to win a Championship with AJ as its starting PF because of his defensive inadequacies, but to say you would give him up for "whatever" is going a little overboard. Over the last two years, I have seen a much better effort and improvement from Jamison on the defensive end. To me, most of his defensive inadequacies now are due to being either two short to guard PFs or two slow to guard SFs, as opposed to effort. I also disagree that he plays only one side of the court. He is a very good defensive rebounder, especially for his size. While you say that he avoids contact to prolong his career, he doesn't seem to have a problem mixing it up with the bigger fellas rebounding.

As for a leader, there are different types of leaders. There are vocal ones and there are "lead by example guys." For the most part, I believe that Jamison plays with 100% effort every game and approaches the game as a professional. He is a leader in that respect. Although I didn't care for his comments about the youngsters earlier on this season, I think his comments were directed more at the way they approach the game, rather than the way they were actually playing the game. There is a big difference between the two. If the youngsters were laughing during losses or were not focused during games, he had every right to call them out. Its one thing not to play well, its another thing not to play with focus, effort, or care.

You also comment that Jamison has never won anything of significance in the NBA. Well, neither has most of the players in the NBA. Garnett didn't win anything of significance until last year. Neither has a bunch of other all stars.

Two years ago, I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly about Jamison. But, over the last two years, I have come to appreciate what he has done for this team. Despite all these injuries and set backs, he is the only player that I can say still plays like it is his last game. Yeah, he still has his faults, and because of those faults, and I don't believe he can lead us to a championship. However, he is a damn good player that I would not give away for "whatever."
Dat2U
RealGM
Posts: 23,541
And1: 7,123
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Location: Columbus, OH
       

Re: Wizards in the Media Thread 

Post#74 » by Dat2U » Wed Jan 7, 2009 11:55 pm

Okay, maybe I went abit overboard with the "whatever" statement. But IMO trading Jamison won't net you a whole lot at this stage. In reality, the best chance to trade him was prior to last year's trading deadline where as one of the largest expiring contracts on the market, he & a prospect or two could have garnered an upgrade an talent.

Now with a new four year contract in fold, he's not untradeable, but there's going to be a net loss talent wise in any deal for him. I'd love to get some expirings in 09 or 10 along with a high quality young prospect. But the best we might do at this stage is someone along the lines of a Travis Outlaw type. Houston may not be happy with their roster and maybe a Artest or Battier is a slim possibilty. Either way, Jamison at his age, won't have much value going forward on the roster or in a trade so we should probably get something for him while the getting is still possible.

As for 100% effort, we are just going to have to disagree on that one. I do not believe he plays every game like its his last. I've seen him play mad and go all out on occasion, but I still notice a distinct effort to preserve his body and maximize his efforts on offense vs. defense. I also think he's overrated a bit as a rebounder b/c there are alot of boards available for the taking b/c of the lack of anyone else in the lineup who can rebound at a decent clip.

I have no doubt Jamison is a quiet leader, but I just don't think he's a very good one. If all 30 teams have a leader or two, where would Jamison rate among those 30?
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 52,670
And1: 9,038
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: Wizards in the Media Thread 

Post#75 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Jan 8, 2009 2:27 am

Jamison would be better at SF with the personnel the Wizards have on hand, is my opinion. Same guy that's undersized at PF is a great rebounder at SF.

Caron's the best SF, but personally, just as soon as I would see them trade Jamison, I wouldn't be averse to seeing the Wizards instead trade Caron for a SG like Kevin Martin.

Just move Antawn to SF, and you could have a better team on the floor.

That said, the reason to keep Butler is he's younger and playing with a good contract, and he IS A VERY GOOD PLAYER. Stand up guy, too.

I'm just saying Dat's assault on Jamison is mainly, IMO, directed at an undersized PF who could easily be converted into a big SF.
Bye bye Beal.
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 52,670
And1: 9,038
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: Nice Mike Wise Article on the Wizards 

Post#76 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Jan 8, 2009 2:50 am

Dat2U wrote:
I really hope he doesn't retire a Wizard. He may be a winner off the court but his career has been predicated by losing. He's never won anything of significance in the NBA. The year his team had the most success is when he played off the bench in Dallas, something he openly stated that he hated doing although it was in the team's best interest that he not start.


That year Antoine Walker started at SF and Jamison was his back up. Jamison that year had a PER of 21.2 and Walker had a PER of 15.8. Don Nelson started Antoine 82 times and Antawn 2 times. Maybe Jamison thought he was better than Walker and that the team would be better with him starting and with Walker coming off the bench.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2004.html

In light of those stats, Dat, why was it in the team's best interest that Antawn didn't start?


I've long viewed Jamison as someone who provides faux leadership. He talks a good game for sure. He's smart, articulate and gives a good interview. What I'd like to remind people is that Jamison IS this team's leader. And this team has never won more than 45 games and never one a 2nd round game. This team's defense has been consistently horrible, and the foundation of its gimmicky defensive strategies is the hide Jamison's presence on the court.


Maybe the futility had something to do with Eddie Jordan sitting Haywood and Blatche an entire playoff series against Cleveland. I seem to remember Ruffin trying to guard James, Darius on Ilguaskas at C, and Etan at C vs Ilguaskas. Could it be the defense was sucky because the past coach wasn't a defensive coach and he was fond of pairing Jamison at PF with guys like Ruffin or Songaila at C? Weren't there bigger problems defensively than just Antawn?

Also, seems like Arenas was injured in the playoffs and one time both Arenas and Butler were injured. Maybe that had something to do with them not getting past the 2nd round. Moreso than Jamison's lack of leadership?

I do recall Jamison averaging 32 points and 10 rebounds in the playoffs against Cleveland.

As someone who's watched Jamison closely on D the past few years, I've seen

far too many lackadasical efforts when it comes to rotating on D, closing out on shooters and putting a body on his man. I'll never forget when he refused to close off the baseline against LeBron a few years ago in the playoffs because he was "scared to get a foul call". A good leader doesn't act or think like that. We always seem to make excuses for Jamison on D, we blow off as just a physical shortcoming he has and fail to acknowledge that most of the problems isn't about limitations, its about willingness to sacrifice and put forth effort.

Jamison is great at avoiding contact at all costs in an effort to prolong his career. He's an expert at shielding his body. He can certainly teach the youngins how to put up empty offensive numbers while not impacting wins and losses and how to be really respected without giving much effort on one side of the court.


Dat, I agree 100% the man has avoided contact and taken many plays off defensively over the years. He ain't no leader on defense for sure, my friend.

Also considering Jamison's outbursts at the kids earlier this season when it was the veterans whose performance was really lacking, I'm surprised at how many Jamison supporters we still have around. He was quick to throw the kids under the bus even when he was struggling himself. That may be the sign of a veteran leader but not necessarily a good one.


I concur, Dat. I was pissed with Jamison and hoping they'd trade him if he kept calling out young guys while his play at both ends was ineffectual very early this season.

However, all season long I've seen the man bust his ass and play hurt and play the hardest of anybody on the team. He can get on the kids for dogging it because 95% of the time, IMO, he doesn't dog it. I think he's been a good veteran leader. Just one that's not a good defender. He does everything he knows how to do well. I've seen him block the shot of bigs. I've seen him taking hard fouls lately. On back-to-backs, however, I've seen him appear to lack energy. I'm guessing the man is spent emotionally and physically some of the time. I consider him a leader, Dat. So long as he's ENCOURAGING the young guys and not blaming them for the losses he so clearly was a part of.

Give me the cap room, flexibility or whatever we can get in a Jamison trade. Someone else can step up in his place and take the scoring, rebounding & the leadership. At 7-26, I don't think it's something that will be greatly missed.


I can see going for cap room and flexibility if you don't think the Wizards will compete for a title in the next 2-3 years. I can't see going for whatever because I think Jamison's a way better than average player and he means a lot to this organization off the court and in the locker room.

I agree that at 7-26 I would just as soon see young guys playing than have AJ on the team losing.
Bye bye Beal.
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 52,670
And1: 9,038
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: Nice Mike Wise Article on the Wizards 

Post#77 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Jan 8, 2009 3:06 am

dandridge 10 wrote:As for a leader, there are different types of leaders. There are vocal ones and there are "lead by example guys." For the most part, I believe that Jamison plays with 100% effort every game and approaches the game as a professional. He is a leader in that respect. Although I didn't care for his comments about the youngsters earlier on this season, I think his comments were directed more at the way they approach the game, rather than the way they were actually playing the game. There is a big difference between the two. If the youngsters were laughing during losses or were not focused during games, he had every right to call them out. Its one thing not to play well, its another thing not to play with focus, effort, or care.

You also comment that Jamison has never won anything of significance in the NBA. Well, neither has most of the players in the NBA. Garnett didn't win anything of significance until last year. Neither has a bunch of other all stars.

Two years ago, I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly about Jamison. But, over the last two years, I have come to appreciate what he has done for this team. Despite all these injuries and set backs, he is the only player that I can say still plays like it is his last game. Yeah, he still has his faults, and because of those faults, and I don't believe he can lead us to a championship. However, he is a damn good player that I would not give away for "whatever."


+1

Well stated, dandridge.
Bye bye Beal.
hands11
Banned User
Posts: 31,171
And1: 2,444
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Wizards in the Media Thread 

Post#78 » by hands11 » Thu Jan 8, 2009 3:53 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Jamison would be better at SF with the personnel the Wizards have on hand, is my opinion. Same guy that's undersized at PF is a great rebounder at SF.

Caron's the best SF, but personally, just as soon as I would see them trade Jamison, I wouldn't be averse to seeing the Wizards instead trade Caron for a SG like Kevin Martin.

Just move Antawn to SF, and you could have a better team on the floor.

That said, the reason to keep Butler is he's younger and playing with a good contract, and he IS A VERY GOOD PLAYER. Stand up guy, too.

I'm just saying Dat's assault on Jamison is mainly, IMO, directed at an undersized PF who could easily be converted into a big SF.


I wanted us to go for it but it's just to stressful. We would need to win so many games to get there.
I said we would know in 7 days but after what I saw tonight, we are probably already there.

We would need to go 32-16 from here on out to get in. I'm not worried about who we face once we are there because if we could go 32-16 and have Haywood and Gil back, we can beat anyone.

But we just dug to deep a hole. 5 years of EJ is to much to over come during the season with the injuries we had.

So yeah, lets do the experiments now. That would be more entertaining and better for the team.

Lets see more AJ at SF but lets also see him at SG and off the bench some when we can.
Let see more Blatche at PF and SF
Etan and McGee should get all the center mins so AB can play PF and SF
Time to cap AJ and CB at 30 minutes a game so they are fresh and so there is PT for others.

Lets see McGee and Blatche running together more.

McGee, Blatche, AJ, CB, Crit

Etan, McGee, Blatche, AJ ( 3 ball ), Dixon

Etan, DSong, DMAC, CB, Crit/Dixon

As of right now. I'm tired of NY. Give me a more mature solid SG who is mentally tough. Give me a RM.

James can go when ever. I'm not that impressed with him.
And DS can go whenever also.

Lets focus on McGee, Blatche, DMAC and Crit. 4 is enough.

There isn't even room for OP if we are working on those 4.

But now is the time to really test Blatche and see what he has. He has enough years and enough talent to maybe be something. We need to find out what he can do if he is the focus for parts of the game. With his passing skills, you can start the offense with him. Lets see what the kid has.

That's my vote.
fishercob
RealGM
Posts: 13,922
And1: 1,571
Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Location: Tenleytown, DC

Re: Wizards in the Media Thread 

Post#79 » by fishercob » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:14 pm

This article draws comparisons between this year's Wizards and the Celtics of two years ago. The author thinks the Wizards are positioned to make just as quick a turnaround as the C's did.

http://wizards.realgm.com/articles/281/ ... o_the_top/
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way."
— Steve Martin
JWizmentality
RealGM
Posts: 14,078
And1: 5,093
Joined: Nov 21, 2004
Location: Cosmic Totality
   

Re: Wizards in the Media Thread 

Post#80 » by JWizmentality » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:02 pm

fishercob wrote:This article draws comparisons between this year's Wizards and the Celtics of two years ago. The author thinks the Wizards are positioned to make just as quick a turnaround as the C's did.

http://wizards.realgm.com/articles/281/ ... o_the_top/


If everything goes just right, I think we come out smelling like daisies. Even better than the C's. I just have to keep my fingers crossed and pray that Ernie makes good decisions.

Return to Washington Wizards