Official Trade Thread VII: Visitors please post trades HERE!

[forbes20]

If the Wiz get the #1, and OKC gets say #4, any chance both teams would do:
Wiz trade:
Butler and #1 (Griffin), plus filler

OKC trades:
Durant

DC gets their hometown stud for SF for the next 8 years, and OKC gets their hometown stud for pf for the next 10 years, and Butler at sg/sf on a reasonable deal.

Wiz:
Arenas/Crittenden/James
DMac/Young/Stevenson
Durant/(DMac)
Jamison/Blatche/Opec
Haywood/McGee/Etan

A young line up of arenas/dmac (or young)/Durant/Blatche/McGee would be about as long and athletic as they come.

OKC:
Westbrook/Butler/Green/Griffin (#1)/Thabeet (#4)

[Silvie Lysandra]

@nate33: It depends on whether someone like New York is willing to overpay for Haywood; it's not out of the question to see him get a contract similar to Biedrins, maybe shorter. I also think Biedrins has more offensive potential than he's shown (granted, so does Haywood), and he's a much better rebounder.

Younger, slightly better defender, better rebounder, long-term deal - I don't think it's a bad trade to make, especially if we're facing the possibility of losing Haywood for nothing. As currently constructed, we *need* an elite defensive center long-term.

What if the trade was Haywood/Blatche/Thomas/Pecherov for Biedrins/Jackson?

[nate33]

@nate33: It depends on whether someone like New York is willing to overpay for Haywood; it's not out of the question to see him get a contract similar to Biedrins, maybe shorter. I also think Biedrins has more offensive potential than he's shown (granted, so does Haywood), and he's a much better rebounder.

Younger, slightly better defender, better rebounder, long-term deal - I don't think it's a bad trade to make, especially if we're facing the possibility of losing Haywood for nothing. As currently constructed, we *need* an elite defensive center long-term.

What if the trade was Haywood/Blatche/Thomas/Pecherov for Biedrins/Jackson?

Haywood is a better defender than Biedrins. Biedrins is the better rebounder, but Haywood is definitely the better man-to-man defender.

I still don't see the point. It sounds like your main concern is that we stand to lose Haywood to free agency and that this trade would alleviate the problem. My response is that, in a worst-case scenario, we might have to pay Haywood as much as Biedrins in order to keep him. And if we're willing to spend the money to pay Biedrins, we should be willing to spend the money on Haywood, so it doesn't matter either way.

So again, I say we are just giving away a high lotto pick and/or Blatche for no good reason. This team has too many other holes for us to waste time worrying about center. We're fine at center with Haywood, Blatche and a developing McGee.

[Ced67]

If the Wiz get the #1, and OKC gets say #4, any chance both teams would do:
Wiz trade:
Butler and #1 (Griffin), plus filler

OKC trades:
Durant

DC gets their hometown stud for SF for the next 8 years, and OKC gets their hometown stud for pf for the next 10 years, and Butler at sg/sf on a reasonable deal.

Wiz:
Arenas/Crittenden/James
DMac/Young/Stevenson
Durant/(DMac)
Jamison/Blatche/Opec
Haywood/McGee/Etan

A young line up of arenas/dmac (or young)/Durant/Blatche/McGee would be about as long and athletic as they come.

OKC:
Westbrook/Butler/Green/Griffin (#1)/Thabeet (#4)

OKC is not trading Durant. He's the franchise and he only 21 or something. Unless you're getting Lebron for him, nothing makes sense.

[tkunit]

My only question about the Rudy trade is didn't portland take Bayless to be their pg of the future? So why would they then trade Rudy for another pg? Unless they plan on playing bayless as a third guard because Roy, rubio would be their back court.

As for Durant there is no way OKC trades him even for Butler/Blake. It would be sweet though that kid is a stud in the making.

[LyricalRico]

What am I reading? For some reason I have always loved Brendan Haywood since his days as a Tar Heel and I have played him a few times on Xbox Live, but some of you seriously overrate him. B-Wood is an average starting center in this league, where as Andres Biedrins is a top 10 starting center who's still improving. You would be set at center for the next 5-7 years if you make that trade.

I actually think you're underrating both Biedrins and Haywood. Name the centers that are better than them:

Dwight Howard
Yao Ming
Shaquille O'Neal
Al Jefferson (if you count him as a C)
Pau Gasol (if you count him as a C)
Andrew Bynum (if he can stay healthy)

That's it for the top tier. The next level has guys like Biedrins, Haywood, Kaman, and Chandler with the order changing based on who you're talking to. So I would consider both of them to be Top 10. Haywood probably at #10 and Biedrins around #8.

The fact is that, when you factor in defense, Haywood is absolutely a Top 10 center in the NBA. His career numbers aren't very high because our former head coach was infatuated with "small ball" but have no doubt that Haywood is a near double-double guy with elite defensive skills.

Is Biedrins better? Sure. But is he twice as good as Haywood? I don't think he is, even though he's making twice as much. Considering our luxury tax situation, I'd rather have the slightly lesser player making half as much.

[tkunit]

I actually think you're underrating both Biedrins and Haywood. Name the centers that are better than them:

Dwight Howard
Yao Ming
Shaquille O'Neal
Al Jefferson (if you count him as a C)
Pau Gasol (if you count him as a C)
Andrew Bynum (if he can stay healthy)

That's it for the top tier. The next level has guys like Biedrins, Haywood, Kaman, and Chandler with the order changing based on who you're talking to. So I would consider both of them to be Top 10. Haywood probably at #10 and Biedrins around #8.

The fact is that, when you factor in defense, Haywood is absolutely a Top 10 center in the NBA. His career numbers aren't very high because our former head coach was infatuated with "small ball" but have no doubt that Haywood is a near double-double guy with elite defensive skills.

Is Biedrins better? Sure. But is he twice as good as Haywood? I don't think he is, even though he's making twice as much. Considering our luxury tax situation, I'd rather have the slightly lesser player making half as much.

Thats what I am saying. Why not have both?

[fishercob]

My only question about the Rudy trade is didn't portland take Bayless to be their pg of the future? So why would they then trade Rudy for another pg? Unless they plan on playing bayless as a third guard because Roy, rubio would be their back court.

Bayless is a project at 3rd guard. He's got a PER of 8.2. If Portland buys into RUbio, they're not going to not do this deal because of Bayless.

[nate33]

I actually think you're underrating both Biedrins and Haywood. Name the centers that are better than them:

Dwight Howard
Yao Ming
Shaquille O'Neal
Al Jefferson (if you count him as a C)
Pau Gasol (if you count him as a C)
Andrew Bynum (if he can stay healthy)

That's it for the top tier. The next level has guys like Biedrins, Haywood, Kaman, and Chandler with the order changing based on who you're talking to. So I would consider both of them to be Top 10. Haywood probably at #10 and Biedrins around #8.

The fact is that, when you factor in defense, Haywood is absolutely a Top 10 center in the NBA. His career numbers aren't very high because our former head coach was infatuated with "small ball" but have no doubt that Haywood is a near double-double guy with elite defensive skills.

Is Biedrins better? Sure. But is he twice as good as Haywood? I don't think he is, even though he's making twice as much. Considering our luxury tax situation, I'd rather have the slightly lesser player making half as much.

Thats what I am saying. Why not have both?

Because we lose a 2-time all-star SF on a good contract in your trade.

[fugop]

I don't get the instinct to trade Butler. His only issue is durability; concerns about his in-game play based on this aberrant season don't make any sense. He's demonstrated the ability and inclination to be a solid defender and to work within the flow of the offense. He's got a good head on his shoulders and impressive competitiveness. He's on a decent contract.

We need to address two problems, at PF and SG. At SG, we have a solid role player in Stevenson who can't put pressure on his defender. When his shot is falling, he helps with spacing, and he's not a bad ball handler or decision-maker provided he's not asked to drive to the basket. We might need more than that, depending on how Gilbert is able to and decides to play upon his full return.

We have two or three guys who bring something very different from Stevenson off the bench, in Young, Crittenton, and McGuire. I have no idea how any of the three will play next to Gilbert.

I basically have no idea what we should do at SG. We don't know what roll the SG will play beside Gil. And we don't know if any of our guys can play those roles, given how different they will necessarily be relative to playing beside Antonio Daniels or Mike James. I think we should just hold off on making any moves at SG until we have a vague idea of what our backcourt is going to look like.

PF is another issue. Our issues at PF are known. Jamison can't defend. It's not clear, though it's possible, that we have the answer on our bench: McGee or Blatche could be the answer, or maybe McGuire. Or our prayers might be answered, and we might receive the solution in the draft.

Basically, PF should be our highest priority. We need to focus on moving toward an answer, rather than treading water with known, fatal, deficiencies. I'd like to see us move Jamison for a role player who can perform spot-duty at PF while instilling good habits in the young guys. Kurt Thomas would be the right guy, were this 2005. Oakley in 2001. Tony Battie and Udonis Haslem are the right type.

----

As an aside, I really wonder how this lineup would perform:

Arenas
Young
Butler
McGuire
Haywood

McGuire is small for a PF, but not horribly so. I don't have a sense of how his post man-defense is, but his help is solid, and he can certainly stay in front of any other PF on the perimeter. He can stay in front of SGs on the perimeter. He would probably look really good in the offense out of the high post, even if his shot doesn't markedly improve. He moves the ball well and could turn and drive easily.

[dobrojim]

I think you're analysis is good but I'm not sure I buy your
conclusion that PF should be our highest priority.

If we had to swap out one player from the projected
starters, I think DeShawn would be the place to
start, not Jamison (as flawed as he is).

[TiKusDom]

I want to throw this idea out to you guys

What would you say to a Chris Bosh for Jamison + Rubio draft day trade?

A core of Arenas + Bosh + Butler , surrounded by a solid group, would make this team legitimate contenders in the East and at least a top 4 eastern conference team.

[nate33]

I want to throw this idea out to you guys

What would you say to a Chris Bosh for Jamison + Rubio draft day trade?

A core of Arenas + Bosh + Butler , surrounded by a solid group, would make this team legitimate contenders in the East and at least a top 4 eastern conference team.

Get Bosh to agree to an extension and let the Wizards throw in Stevenson to make the salaries work out, and it's a deal.

The Wizards might not have quite enough to compete for a title until the bench develops, but it puts them back in the top half of the East with a relatively young core of Bosh, Arenas, Butler and Haywood. Those guys all have 5 or more prime years left.

[no D in Hibachi]

The Wizards would need to dump more than than just Jamison + pick for Bosh to make salary work. If they are willing to take Stevenson then that trade would be golden to me, and I'm not a big Bosh supporter. They'd also need to be able to trade Calderon because with Rubio no need for an expensive back-up.

That said, I just cannot see any possible scenario where EG would trade Jamison. I bet that even if the Wiz could trade Jamison for Blake Griffin EG would turn it down. The only players I see EG making a Jamison trade for would be Howard, James, Wade, Duncan, Garnett, but we know trading Jamison for those players would never happen.

[nate33]

The Wizards would need to dump more than than just Jamison + pick for Bosh to make salary work. If they are willing to take Stevenson then that trade would be golden to me, and I'm not a big Bosh supporter. They'd also need to be able to trade Calderon because with Rubio no need for an expensive back-up.

That said, I just cannot see any possible scenario where EG would trade Jamison. I bet that even if the Wiz could trade Jamison for Blake Griffin EG would turn it down. The only players I see EG making a Jamison trade for would be Howard, James, Wade, Duncan, Garnett.

Nah. That's hyperbole. EG loves Jamison, but he's not a complete idiot. He'd definitely trade him for the right pieces. For example, there's no doubt in my mind that he'd trade Jamison + filler straight up for Bosh. Whether he'd include the #2 depends on how much he values Rubio. That's purely a valuation judgement, not a blind loyalty consideration.

[TiKusDom]

Taking Stevenson's or any other salary dump of choice by the Wizards will not be a problem for the Raptors as long as they receive Rubio. Bosh for Jamision+ Rubio + Salary dump of Washington's choice is a done deal for me .

[no D in Hibachi]

Nate, maybe he'd trade Jamison for the right pieces, but by no means do I see him actively shopping Jamison or even bringing Jamison up in trade discussions with other teams. Therefore the only possible trades that EG has for Jamison are the ones he's presented with. I don't see EG beating down the door for a Jamison for Bosh deal and I don't think that a deal like that would happen unless he was the aggressor, Toronto would need to be convinced, or perhaps persuaded, that they need Jamison because I know they don't think that is the case as we speak. As it is, I see EG sitting back and if something is dropped on him like Jamison for Wally he'll just brush it off.

[nate33]

Nate, maybe he'd trade Jamison for the right pieces, but by no means do I see him actively shopping Jamison or even bringing Jamison up in trade discussions with other teams. Therefore the only possible trades that EG has for Jamison are the ones he's presented with. I don't see EG beating down the door for a Jamison for Bosh deal and I don't think that a deal like that would happen unless he was the aggressor, Toronto would need to be convinced, or perhaps persuaded, that they need Jamison because I know they don't think that is the case as we speak. As it is, I see EG sitting back and if something is dropped on him like Jamison for Wally he'll just brush it off.

I hear you, no D. I agree with your general point that EG really likes Jamison and isn't actively shopping him. I just disagree on the extent of EG's attachment. EG is loathe to trade Jamison, but not completely unwilling.

As a side point, if EG could indeed manage a Jamison plus pick for Bosh trade, then he would have been proven right in resigning Jamison and then declining the Wally trade. In the final analysis, EG wasn't emotionally attached to Jamison, he was just patient enough to wait for the right deal.

[no D in Hibachi]

If that's the case then I'll repent and vehemently deny that EG had any sort of infatuation with Jamison whatsoever, but a series of events like this will need to transpire before I'm moved from my EG loves Jamison at all costs opinion.

[barelyawake]

Philly PF - not Brand but Speights

Well, from what I've heard from Philly fans (creeping over to their page to check on Brand), they think they do better without Brand (and with Speights). So, I doubt he's on the table.

I think our best bet, since we have young players who could turn into good defenders, is to pack the bench with tough vets (who dominated in d in their day); get a defensive coach; and create a culture of defense. The o will obviously come. But, we need a culture of not just talk of defense, but some tough players and a coach to implant a defensive mandate. And we need Arenas to understand fully that to be the player he's wanted to be, he needs to LEARN how to play defense from these mentors. I honestly don't think Arenas understands how to play defense. I think he has practiced over and over how to score, and has no way to practice defense on his own at four o'clock in the morning.