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rl25g wrote:Wiz Trade: Stevenson, Blatche, Pecherov
Wiz Recieve: Kenny Thomas (Expring) Future Pick

Assuming we land the #1. We get Immediate Cap Relief for 2010 off season while taking away the longjam at SG and PF

Haywood/McGee
Griffen/Jamison
Butler/Jamison
DMAC/Young
Arenas/Critt

Deep Bench: Thomas, Thomas, D SONG, Mike James, 2nd Round Pick

I would do that, assuming any protection on the pick is reasonable (not like the rules on the MEM pick). I think the rotation would look like this, though:

Haywood/McGee/Etan
Griffin/Songaila
Jamison/McGuire
Butler/Young
Arenas/James/Critt

If we land Griffin, then it would definitely make sense to look to trade Blatche plus Stevenson for cap relief.

That said, I don't think McGee is ready to take over the role of backup center yet. He still has a lot to learn. Ideally, we wait until the Trade Deadline next year before trading Blatche. That way, we buy more time for McGee to learn the NBA game.

The best scenario would be to trade Blatche + Stevenson at the Trade Deadline to an under-the-cap team or a team with a TPE. That'll get us out of the luxtax next year and provide plenty of cushion to resign Haywood and DMac the following year. Any future picks we could get in the deal would be gravy.

My guess is that Griffin wouldn't start his rookie year. The lineup would be:

PG Arenas/Crittenton
SG DMac/Young
SF Butler/Jamison
PF Jamison/Griffin
C Haywood/McGee

Hey guys, was in here a few pages ago with a Rubio trade, and had a revision I was curious about.

Outlaw + Bayless + 2009 1st + 2010 1st (conditional)

for

Stevenson (waived) + Songailia + #2 pick (Rubio)

The 2010 1st is conditional on Rubio playing in the 2009 - 2010 season. Anyone find that better than the straight cap space? Someone said "replace Bayless with Rudy" but there's no way Portland could do that IMO. Their bench would score 5 points a game if they traded both Rudy and Outlaw, (who happens to be the third highest scorer off the bench this season, after being the second highest scorer off the bench last season after Manu Gionobili).

No Rudy, no Ricky. Simple as that.

fishercob wrote:No Rudy, no Ricky. Simple as that.

One Spaniard for another, eh?

Fair enough. I guess I'll see you guys next season... Portland isn't trading Rudy and capspace for Ricky. Hope you guys get a deal from Sac or something... Arenas and Butler shouldn't be in the lottery.

fishercob wrote:No Rudy, no Ricky. Simple as that.

QFT.

Wizards:#1 pick Griffin,Jamison,Butler
Raptors:Bosh,Kapono

pg:Arenas,Critt
sg:Young,Stevenson
sf:McGuire
pf:Bosh,Blatche,Songaila
c:Haywood,McGee,Thomas

The Magic Man wrote:Wizards:#1 pick Griffin,Jamison,Butler
Raptors:Bosh,Kapono

pg:Arenas,Critt
sg:Young,Stevenson
sf:McGuire
pf:Bosh,Blatche,Songaila
c:Haywood,McGee,Thomas

Will the Raptors be brandishing a gun at Ernie Grunfeld at the time of the deal? I'm not even sure the Wizards would trade Griffin and Jamison for Bosh, let alone throwing in a top quality small forward as "filler".

Benjammin wrote:

The Magic Man wrote:Wizards:#1 pick Griffin,Jamison,Butler
Raptors:Bosh,Kapono

pg:Arenas,Critt
sg:Young,Stevenson
sf:McGuire
pf:Bosh,Blatche,Songaila
c:Haywood,McGee,Thomas

Will the Raptors be brandishing a gun at Ernie Grunfeld at the time of the deal? I'm not even sure the Wizards would trade Griffin and Jamison for Bosh, let alone throwing in a top quality small forward as "filler".

Another Toronto homer with a patently absurd trade proposal.

Bosh is not Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett. He's good, but he's not a HOF caliber PF. He will soon be overpaid when he signs his max contract. Basically, his trade value will be little more than Jamison. Honestly, would you rather have a 20/10 no-defense PF earning an average of $12M a year (Jamison), or a 20/10 decent-defense PF earning an average of $20M a year (Bosh)?

Don't get me wrong. I like Bosh and think he's an upgrade over Jamison. But the Wizards aren't giving up the kitchen sink for him.

A reasonable trade would be Jamison + Mike James (filler contract) + #3 or lower pick for Bosh.

If the Wizards land the #2 or #1 pick, then it's the pick plus Songaila + Stevenson + James (filler contracts).

If you don't like it, oh well. We'll survive without Bosh.

The Magic Man wrote:Wizards:#1 pick Griffin,Jamison,Butler
Raptors:Bosh,Kapono

pg:Arenas,Critt
sg:Young,Stevenson
sf:McGuire
pf:Bosh,Blatche,Songaila
c:Haywood,McGee,Thomas

Let's take a look!



Hm, so the stats do seem to say that Bosh has the slight edge on Jamison. He's also younger, which is certainly nice. Let's call him 15% better.



Oh my, not quite the same tale here. Butler is vastly superior to Kapono almost across the board. They're also about the same age and have two years left on their contracts. This time, we'll say that Butler is 65% better than Kapono.

Things aren't looking good so far. The question is, is getting the number one pick back from Toronto enough to offset the 50% difference between what we're sending out versus what we're getting? Griffin does look like a pretty good prospect, so I'd say that all in all, it's actually not a bad deal at all.

Wait, what's that? We're the ones sending out the number one pick? Geez, now I feel kind of foolish. You were obviously making a joke and it went over my head. Egg all over my face.

If the Wizards land the #2 or #1 pick, then it's the pick plus Songaila + Stevenson + James (filler contracts).

While I agree Bosh is overrated, I can't believe you'd honestly expect to get him for all your bad contracts and a draft pick.

Jamison plus the pick at 3 or below is fair for Bosh. The trade proposed by the Raps fan is absurd.

JordanL wrote:

If the Wizards land the #2 or #1 pick, then it's the pick plus Songaila + Stevenson + James (filler contracts).

While I agree Bosh is overrated, I can't believe you'd honestly expect to get him for all your bad contracts and a draft pick.

But the point is if the Wizards get the #1 pick they have no need for Bosh, right?

BigA wrote:

JordanL wrote:

If the Wizards land the #2 or #1 pick, then it's the pick plus Songaila + Stevenson + James (filler contracts).

While I agree Bosh is overrated, I can't believe you'd honestly expect to get him for all your bad contracts and a draft pick.

But the point is if the Wizards get the #1 pick they have no need for Bosh, right?

No, but not because of the value of Bosh... that's a team need thing.

Portland has lots of similar situations. We don't really have a need for some players, so some top teir talent would garner very conservative results from Portland. That doesn't mean I'd actually expect the trade to happen though.

I don't think Bosh on Washington is a good fit in any situation, but Songaila + Stevenson + James is SO MUCH negative value for Toronto that it's a ridiculous offer.

I was just kind of curious if nate was serious.

I'm dead serious.

Who would YOU rather have? Blake Griffin at $5M a year, or Chris Bosh at $20M a year?

If you don't like it. Fine. Keep Bosh for one more year and watch him walk for nothing. Or trade him for Noah and Deng or something like that. Nobody is putting a gun to your head.

nate33 wrote:I'm dead serious.

Who would YOU rather have? Blake Griffin at $5M a year, or Chris Bosh at $20M a year?

If you don't like it. Fine. Keep Bosh for one more year and watch him walk for nothing. Or trade him for Noah and Deng or something like that. Nobody is putting a gun to your head.

I'm a Portland fan, not a Toronto fan, who gave the same speil to them about Lamarcus Aldridge for Bosh.

But I'd rather pay Bosh $20 million, then pay Songaila, Stevenson and James what they're owed.

I kinda agree with nate here. His proposal is obviously skewed toward the Wizards, but he makes an excellent point about bargaining. Holding the #1 pick, the Wizards would have considerable negotiating power. Griffin is likely to be a very good pro from the beginning of his career, and he's going to do it for 75% less money than Bosh will be getting. It might not be comparable production to Bosh -- at least at the outset -- but rookie scale contracts are the best bargains in the NBA. The contracts Nate's talking about sending to Toronto aren't onerous -- Stevenson and Songaila both have fairly small deals, and James has a contract that expires in 2010.

In Nate's deal, Toronto gets Griffin, financial savings, and a serviceable bench guy (Songaila). The Wiz get Bosh and some increased roster flexibility.

JordanL wrote:But I'd rather pay Bosh $20 million, then pay Songaila, Stevenson and James what they're owed.

That's a reasonable argument if Songaila, Stevenson and James were locked into long term contracts, but they're not.

Let's assume for argument's sake that Songaila, Stevenson and James are utterly worthless players who will never see the court (which is certainly not true in Songaila's case). Toronto would effectively be paying the following for Griffin:

Year 1: $19M
Year 2: $13.5M
Year 3: $6M
Year 4: $7M
That's $45.5M over 4 years. Furthermore, the first 2 years of his next contract will be limited to around $14M a year. So figure no more than $73M over 6 years assuming Blake turns out to be worth a max contract when his rookie deal is over.

Bosh is going to cost:
Year 1: $15.7M
Year 2: $18M
Year 3: $20M
Year 4: $22M
Year 5: $24M
Year 6: $26M
That's $75M over the next 4 years and a total of $125M over 6 years.

I wouldn't dare trade the rights to Griffin for anyone not named Kevin Durant. Only a fool would be willing to pay $20 million per (Bosh) for what you can get for $5 million per (Griffin).

I've kinda soured on Bosh anyways. I'd bet he's injured. He looks slow and awkward. He's also got a bit of baggage with him. I don't want the Wizards to be the one paying him $20 mil per to break down and be a shell of his former self.

Now if the Wizards get the #3 pick or below, I might be willing to relook at Bosh (and especially Stoudamire), but even then giving up much more than a pick and some short term contracts would be too much.

Fans of Toronto & Phoenix need to realize that their teams aren't in a strong bargaining position. Bosh & Amare can walk the following offseason and leave their team with nothing. Both have injury concerns. Both want max contracts. That will give owners pause in this economy. It's not an ideal situation for any franchise to trade into.

Could do something like Mike James+Etan Thomas for Eddy Curry to alleviate the luxury tax situation that's likely to occur this summer, included with that offcourse would be enough money to offset the total (8m or so) that the Wizards would have to pay in 2010 for Eddy Curry (a year where they probably will have the room to hold his contract).

All in all saves the Wizards, a healthy 6m for doing essentially nothing except promising themselves to not use the MLE in 2010-2011.