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Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Mon Apr 6, 2009 10:43 pm
by BigA
No, not even with being able to dump all the bad salaries. I think I'd trade Rubio in the Portland scenarios that have been discussed. Or consider trading for Bosh if the Wizards get 3 or worse.
Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Mon Apr 6, 2009 10:49 pm
by JWizmentality
Nope. If we land Griffin...I'd rather keep him. Any other pick can go to Toronto for Bosh.
Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Mon Apr 6, 2009 10:49 pm
by fishercob
To me it's not at all a question of upside, but rather one of value. Griffin's going to make what, a quarter or a third of what Bosh makes over the next 5-6 years? Even if he's not quite the player Bosh is (and I would argue that Bosh is the better frontcourt defender and that's the greater area of need for the Wiz) he's a very good player and a far better value. You need some cheap production to win a ring. If the Wiz land Griffin, I think they keep him.
Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Mon Apr 6, 2009 10:50 pm
by miller31time
I might be in the minority but I would. Griffin, for as good as he projects to be, will not have superstar impact for 2-3 years. With Gilbert, Caron, Jamison and Haywood in their respective primes RIGHT NOW, our championship window is growing smaller and smaller. Bosh is still pretty young and would fit in well with our roster.
Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Mon Apr 6, 2009 11:02 pm
by Higga
If it's not the top pick I probably would, assuming we could dump Etan and/or some other contracts.
After Griffin I don't really see there being any real stars in this draft. I like Rubio but we'd have to wait a year and we don't really need him with all the $ we're paying Gil. Plus we may have some bad cred overseas with how EG handled the Navarro situation.
Re: Official Trade Thread VII: Visitors please post trades HERE!
Posted: Mon Apr 6, 2009 11:03 pm
by fishercob
Dat2U wrote:I wouldn't dare trade the rights to Griffin for anyone not named Kevin Durant. Only a fool would be willing to pay $20 million per (Bosh) for what you can get for $5 million per (Griffin).
I've kinda soured on Bosh anyways. I'd bet he's injured. He looks slow and awkward. He's also got a bit of baggage with him. I don't want the Wizards to be the one paying him $20 mil per to break down and be a shell of his former self.
Now if the Wizards get the #3 pick or below, I might be willing to relook at Bosh (and especially Stoudamire), but even then giving up much more than a pick and some short term contracts would be too much.
Fans of Toronto & Phoenix need to realize that their teams aren't in a strong bargaining position. Bosh & Amare can walk the following offseason and leave their team with nothing. Both have injury concerns. Both want max contracts. That will give owners pause in this economy. It's not an ideal situation for any franchise to trade into.
What interests me in Bosh more than Stoudemire is that Bosh played excellent defense -- particularly against the pick and roll in Beijing last summer. He doesn't have the be The Man in order to be effective, and so I think he'd fit in well alongside Gil, Caron, Haywood, etc.
Amare worries me because of his stated desires to be The Man. He's also been roundly criticized for his defense. He's never played alongside a defensive center as good as Haywood, so maybe he'd produce here, but I think I'd prefer the better defensive guy.
I'd entertain trade scenarios for either guy if we don't get the #1. As much as I love my Rubio/Rudy swap, Pritchard may not. If I could use the #2 to upgrade from Jamison to Bosh, I think I make that trade.
Dat, what baggage of Bosh's are you referring to?
Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Mon Apr 6, 2009 11:09 pm
by queridiculo
I would if salaries weren't a consideration.
Knowing the current salary structure and how Pollin operates though it's a tough one to consider.
Yes, Abe would pay for a contender, but if things don't work out in year 1 of Bosh we'd be stuck with a whole bunch of max and near max contracts, absolutely no hope of rebuilding in the near term, and face losing Haywood and McGuire in 2010 and possibly Butler in 2011.
The other question is how would Bosh fit in? Jamison is just as hopeless defensively at the 3 as Butler is at the 2, which means we'd have to bring either one of them of the bench.
That said, the idea of shedding Blatche, Thomas and James while picking up an All Star is very tempting.
Personally I don't see Grunfeld being able to resist. Witch McGee, Young, Critt, Blatche and McGuire we're already loaded with youngins, and the vets are no doubt sick of it.
Here's a question to you sportsnut, would the Raptors go for a deal that has them getting 2-4 along with Blatche, filler and a future pick?
Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Mon Apr 6, 2009 11:13 pm
by pancakes3
I say yes, but with a huge asterisk. The condition being that we would put Jamison out on the market immediately for an upgrade at shooting guard say like Ben Gordon, Michael Redd, Mike Miller, Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Joe Johnson (if only...), et. al.
Arenas
Joe J
Butler
Bosh
Haywood...
we would send all 5 of them to the all star game and probably take home the Larry O'Brien.
Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Mon Apr 6, 2009 11:19 pm
by jimij
No thanks. I like Bosh but not at what he wants to be paid. I'd rather have both the rookie salary deal plus the toughness factor with Griffin.
Yes we could trade Jamison for a SG but its unlikely we could dump any of our other salaries if we do that.
If we keep Griffin, I think we could easily upgrade at the SG spot while dumping Blatche and one or more of our bad contracts (plus Young or our 2nd rd pick if need be). We also have the option of dumping AJ rather than Blatche if we think Griffin is the real deal.
I just don't like the long-term salary implications for Bosh who while talented, is not exactly a superstar and would only mean another near max deal to absorb.
Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Mon Apr 6, 2009 11:20 pm
by sportsnut99
hermitkid wrote:I would if salaries weren't a consideration.
Knowing the current salary structure and how Pollin operates though it's a tough one to consider.
Yes, Abe would pay for a contender, but if things don't work out in year 1 of Bosh we'd be stuck with a whole bunch of max and near max contracts, absolutely no hope of rebuilding in the near term, and face losing Haywood and McGuire in 2010 and possibly Butler in 2011.
The other question is how would Bosh fit in? Jamison is just as hopeless defensively at the 3 as Butler is at the 2, which means we'd have to bring either one of them of the bench.
That said, the idea of shedding Blatche, Thomas and James while picking up an All Star is very tempting.
Personally I don't see Grunfeld being able to resist. Witch McGee, Young, Critt, Blatche and McGuire we're already loaded with youngins, and the vets are no doubt sick of it.
Here's a question to you sportsnut, would the Raptors go for a deal that has them getting 2-4 along with Blatche, filler and a future pick?
Assuming Rubio's in the draft with a reasonable buyout, # 2, is appealing. No other player in the draft beyond the top 2 merit doing that deal. With that said I do not believe Blatche would appeal Bryan Colangelo and have any use on our roster. I have not seen Nick you play much but we do need to up grade our wings in terms of athletic ability and could use the depth of a kid on a rookie deal. Other players like Darius or E. Thomas may have more utility on our roster assuming their healthy. We would probably also like to shed one of Kapono or Banks. Kapono, assuming you have that championship caliber core could be a useful role player.
Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Mon Apr 6, 2009 11:21 pm
by queridiculo
pancakes3 wrote:I say yes, but with a huge asterisk. The condition being that we would put Jamison out on the market immediately for an upgrade at shooting guard say like Ben Gordon, Michael Redd, Mike Miller, Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Joe Johnson (if only...), et. al.
Arenas
Joe J
Butler
Bosh
Haywood...
we would send all 5 of them to the all star game and probably take home the Larry O'Brien.
Jamison isn't going anywhere. Yes, his production is there, but at his age who's going to give up somebody like Martin, Salmons or Joe Johnson.... The other guys I wouldn't even bother with for Jamison.
Apropos Salmons.
At the trade deadline I proposed moving Butler, Blatche and a conditional swap of 1st rounders for Salmons and Miller because I thought that he'd be a perfect match for Arenas. McGuire could play the three, or with a starting lineup including Bosh and Haywood we could even get away with Jamison starting at the three.
A starting lineup of Arenas, Salmons, McGuire, Bosh and Haywood could be a terror defensively while still getting it done on offense at a pretty high clip.
Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Mon Apr 6, 2009 11:24 pm
by queridiculo
sportsnut99 wrote: We would probably also like to shed one of Kapono or Banks. Kapono, assuming you have that championship caliber core could be a useful role player.
Any deal that has the Wizards take on salary beyond Bosh's near max contract is a no go.
Washington isn't in a position to absorb any salary at all.
Re: Official Trade Thread VII: Visitors please post trades HERE!
Posted: Mon Apr 6, 2009 11:29 pm
by eltacoman
im down for trading for bosh as long as we dont give them too much.... they are under pressure not us
Blake Griffin the 2010 1st and a expiring player is all i would give them as in our value.... they would have to take deshawn and songalia for it to work
the most more i would add is Pesh + 31st of 2009 draft
Blake Griffin + 2010 1st + 2009 31st + an expiring + Pesh (good patential) plus solid tested vets in Songalia + Deshawn
for
Chris Bosh
Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Mon Apr 6, 2009 11:30 pm
by sportsnut99
hermitkid wrote:sportsnut99 wrote: We would probably also like to shed one of Kapono or Banks. Kapono, assuming you have that championship caliber core could be a useful role player.
Any deal that has the Wizards take on salary beyond Bosh's near max contract is a no go.
Washington isn't in a position to absorb any salary at all.
I am aware of that, however in aggregate if we were to take on more salary with other players the money overall could even out. I am not implying that Washington take on more money overall.
The other assets in the deal, if they can be called that, are bad contracts that may be more useful to another team than our own teams respectively.
We would take expiring money from Mike James and Etan Thomas that is about 14 million. The 1st/2nd pick salary is 5+. Add Nick Young at 2 mil and that is 21. the money could be very close.
Bosh makes 15+ mill Kapono makes 6+ together that is 21 million.
In the following years if you guys do not use the team options on Pecherov and Crittenton that would accommodate Bosh's raise.
Re: Official Trade Thread VII: Visitors please post trades HERE!
Posted: Tue Apr 7, 2009 12:15 am
by Dat2U
fishercob wrote:Dat2U wrote:I wouldn't dare trade the rights to Griffin for anyone not named Kevin Durant. Only a fool would be willing to pay $20 million per (Bosh) for what you can get for $5 million per (Griffin).
I've kinda soured on Bosh anyways. I'd bet he's injured. He looks slow and awkward. He's also got a bit of baggage with him. I don't want the Wizards to be the one paying him $20 mil per to break down and be a shell of his former self.
Now if the Wizards get the #3 pick or below, I might be willing to relook at Bosh (and especially Stoudamire), but even then giving up much more than a pick and some short term contracts would be too much.
Fans of Toronto & Phoenix need to realize that their teams aren't in a strong bargaining position. Bosh & Amare can walk the following offseason and leave their team with nothing. Both have injury concerns. Both want max contracts. That will give owners pause in this economy. It's not an ideal situation for any franchise to trade into.
What interests me in Bosh more than Stoudemire is that Bosh played excellent defense -- particularly against the pick and roll in Beijing last summer. He doesn't have the be The Man in order to be effective, and so I think he'd fit in well alongside Gil, Caron, Haywood, etc.
Amare worries me because of his stated desires to be The Man. He's also been roundly criticized for his defense. He's never played alongside a defensive center as good as Haywood, so maybe he'd produce here, but I think I'd prefer the better defensive guy.
I'd entertain trade scenarios for either guy if we don't get the #1. As much as I love my Rubio/Rudy swap, Pritchard may not. If I could use the #2 to upgrade from Jamison to Bosh, I think I make that trade.
Dat, what baggage of Bosh's are you referring to?
I disagree on Bosh not having to be the man. I think he and Amare are in the same boat. Both use a great deal of possessions. I actually think Amare works better in terms of moving without the ball. I like the idea of Gil setting up Amare time and time again off the pick & roll or pick & pop. Amare is also a stronger finisher IMO. Bosh tends to dominate the ball whenever I've watched him. And the only time Bosh ever played excellent defense was with the US team, otherwise, I've not been all that impressed with him on that end of the court.
As for baggage regarding Bosh, I was referring to him being sued for failing to pay child support and the fact he threw Jamario Moon directly under the bus and ran over him earlier this season by squarely blaming a loss on him. I know some of us are okay with teammates calling each other out, but I don't think that's leadership. Especially when you do it in front of the media. If you do it behind closed doors, then its about holding one another accountable. when you do it in front o the media, I look at it as grandstanding or refusing to take responsibility for a team's failures. I think there's been a few other instances where he's whined a bit in the media this year. I'm not totally against acquiring him, but I wouldn't suggest giving up much for him either.
Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Tue Apr 7, 2009 12:18 am
by Dat2U
Dat2U wrote:I wouldn't dare trade the rights to Griffin for anyone not named Kevin Durant. Only a fool would be willing to pay $20 million per (Bosh) for what you can get for $5 million per (Griffin).
...
Now if the Wizards get the #3 pick or below, I might be willing to relook at Bosh (and especially Stoudamire), but even then giving up much more than a pick and some short term contracts would be too much.
Fans of Toronto & Phoenix need to realize that their teams aren't in a strong bargaining position. Bosh & Amare can walk the following offseason and leave their team with nothing. Both have injury concerns. Both want max contracts. That will give owners pause in this economy. It's not an ideal situation for any franchise to trade into.
Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Tue Apr 7, 2009 12:29 am
by sportsnut99
Dat2U wrote:Dat2U wrote:I wouldn't dare trade the rights to Griffin for anyone not named Kevin Durant. Only a fool would be willing to pay $20 million per (Bosh) for what you can get for $5 million per (Griffin).
...
Now if the Wizards get the #3 pick or below, I might be willing to relook at Bosh (and especially Stoudamire), but even then giving up much more than a pick and some short term contracts would be too much.
Fans of Toronto & Phoenix need to realize that their teams aren't in a strong bargaining position. Bosh & Amare can walk the following offseason and leave their team with nothing. Both have injury concerns. Both want max contracts. That will give owners pause in this economy. It's not an ideal situation for any franchise to trade into.
The board seems 50/50 on 1st pick. Though, the offer above is pretty close to what that post is saying if you guys luck into the second pick.
2nd pick-Rubio
Thomas (expiring)
M. James (expiring)
Young
For
Bosh
Kapono (Expiring the following year)
Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Tue Apr 7, 2009 12:37 am
by Dat2U
1. I wouldn't even do the trade for the 2nd pick. I like Rubio enough to take my chances on him. What's the bigger risk? A worndown Bosh at $20 mil a year or a prodigal 18 yr old with an off the charts b-ball IQ and skillset at $4 mil?
2. Jason Kapono is a non starter. Bosh will already command major coin. Kapono makes too much and does too little. He is deal killer, regardless of where the pick is.
Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Tue Apr 7, 2009 12:38 am
by FreeBalling
miller31time wrote:I might be in the minority but I would. Griffin, for as good as he projects to be, will not have superstar impact for 2-3 years. With Gilbert, Caron, Jamison and Haywood in their respective primes RIGHT NOW, our championship window is growing smaller and smaller. Bosh is still pretty young and would fit in well with our roster.
He's dame good right now.
"Character, Commitment, Connection." Come on EG make that deal!
If Abe would sign off on an opportunity like this, he would be sending a clear message to the fans. I want to win now.
I'd reply with it's about dame time.
Re: Would you trade the 1st pick for Bosh?
Posted: Tue Apr 7, 2009 1:15 am
by MJG
I vote no. Honestly, I think Bosh is a little overrated. He's a very good player, an obvious annual all-star selection. But he's not an All-NBA caliber player, not a max contract worthy player, and if we're giving up the first pick, that's what I think I'd want in return. And he has put up more or less the same production for four straight seasons now, so I have to believe that he is what he is at this point, and I don't think he's suddenly going to take that next step.