Official Trade Thread VII: Visitors please post trades HERE!

[fishercob]

Wow Dat, that's some pretty harsh criticism for someone of Bosh's age and productivity. What's worse in your mind -- Bosh on a max deal, Jamison (the root of all evil) on his?

[JWizmentality]

Wow Dat, that's some pretty harsh criticism for someone of Bosh's age and productivity. What's worse in your mind -- Bosh on a max deal, Jamison (the root of all evil) on his?

Oh Oooooohh!! Pick me!! Pick me!!!

[Severn Hoos]

Would I trade the 1st pick for Bosh? Sure.



























If Blake Griffin stays in school....



BTW, Dat - I don't think I'd even trade Griffin for Durant. It's not to take anything away from Durant, who is an amazing scorer, but a) Griffin pulls down crazy boards, and b) Post scoring is inherently more valuable than perimeter scoring, IMO. And contrary to many posters' opinions, I think Griffin has the raw tools (strength) to be a solid positional defender. I'd have to say the list of current players I'd trade Griffin for is very short - probably single digits.

[fishercob]

Wow Dat, that's some pretty harsh criticism for someone of Bosh's age and productivity. What's worse in your mind -- Bosh on a max deal, Jamison (the root of all evil) on his?

Oh Oooooohh!! Pick me!! Pick me!!!

Yes, Mr. Flynt?

[Dat2U]

What's worse in your mind -- Bosh on a max deal, Jamison (the root of all evil) on his?

Hmmm, good question.

Seriously, I don't hate Bosh, I'm just weary of trading a #1 or #2 or him AND paying him max dollars. I might be more open minded if it was one or the other but not both.

I also just get a bad vibe about Bosh. There's nothing I can specifically point out, but two guys come to mind when I think about his troubles this year. Vin Baker & Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Not to say Bosh is an alcoholic or a tweener with knee troubles but both of those guys started their careers off with a bang and faded badly. Baker was a multiple all-star and an olympian. SAR was traded for the #3 pick in the draft (which turned into Gasol). I get the same feeling about Bosh. My gut tells me that he's going to not live up to a max contract and he'll be a major dissapointment down the road. I guess my gut is sorta like doc's spleen.

Jamison isn't the root of all evil. I just don't buy the leadership nonsense. I take such a discouraging view on Jamison for one reason. I don't agree with the notion that we should cut him a break b/c he can't defend. I've seen Jamison get mad and give a defensive effort. When he first got to DC, he played solid D for about 4 or 5 games to begin the season. When EJ benched him during his 2nd yr I believe at the end of one game for defensive purposes, you best believe AJ got mad and displayed more energy on D for some games after that incident. AJ has it in him to be a competent defender. He just doesn't sell out. Even when it matters the most (i.e. playoffs, end of game situations). One doesn't have to be fleet of foot or 6-10 260 to rotate on D and close out on shooters. Defense is mainly about effort and AJ IMO lacks it for the most part.

[fishercob]

Gotta give a shout out to our friend TSVQT (had the skins logo as his avatar -- retired air force) who was touting Griffin -- or as he would refer to him "BLAKE GRIFFIN" -- over a year ago. I hope he's well, wherever he is and I'm sure he's fired up for the Wiz to have a shot at his boy.

on 6/4/08 he posted this in trade thread IV -- called the Bill Walker pick too!

Here's my draft wish list;

Wizards trade #18 pick, #47 pick, Memphis pick, 2009 2nd rd pick, and Oleksiy Pecherov

Timberwolves trade #34 pick, 2009 1st rd pick (unprotected).

With pick #34, Wizards select Bill Walker.
2009 draft, Wizards draft, or trade both picks to move up to draft BLAKE GRIFFIN. With Etan having more trade value next year, it would be the best time to to draft a big, and BLAKE will be the best of the best!! WoW!! I absolutely LOVE this guys game. Too bad he was injured this year, or it may have been a three man race at the top of this draft. Overall I'm glad he's doing two years of college ball.

[eltacoman]

with Blake Griffin 20 - 6'9 - 250
Gilbert - Critt
Caron - Young
Antwan - Dmac
Griffin - Blatch
Wood - Mcgee

with Ricky Rubio 18 - 6'4 - 184
Rubio - Critt
Gilbert - Young
Caron - Dmac
Antwan - Blatch
Wood - Mcgee

with Amare 27 - 6'10 - 245
Gilbert - Critt
Caron - Young
Antwan - Dmac
Amare - Blatch
Wood - Mcgee

with Chris Bosh 29 - 6'10 - 235
Gilbert - Critt
Caron - Young
Antwan - Dmac
Bosh - Blatch
Wood - Mcgee


all are nice too me .... but the one with Bosh looks like a Player ... even if that team has a year to get it done ..... it could be a Celtics type of HOMERUN

[Dat2U]

Here's my draft wish list;

Wizards trade #18 pick, #47 pick, Memphis pick, 2009 2nd rd pick, and Oleksiy Pecherov

Timberwolves trade #34 pick, 2009 1st rd pick (unprotected).

With pick #34, Wizards select Bill Walker.
2009 draft, Wizards draft, or trade both picks to move up to draft BLAKE GRIFFIN. With Etan having more trade value next year, it would be the best time to to draft a big, and BLAKE will be the best of the best!! WoW!! I absolutely LOVE this guys game. Too bad he was injured this year, or it may have been a three man race at the top of this draft. Overall I'm glad he's doing two years of college ball.

Good call Fish. I wonder where tsvqt is doing. I haven't seen him in a while. He certainly was one driving the Griffin bandwagon. It seemed like every other post was referring to him. He called it perfectly though. Griffin is definitely the class of this draft.

Boy do I hope tsvqt gets his wish.

[miller31time]

I hope he's alright. He's been on this board for as long as I can remember.

[pancakes3]

I want to say that if/when we acquire Bosh the wizards will finally have that low post offensive presence that we've been looking for quite some time. Thus, I don't really mind the high usage because with a strong low post presence, our players would add another dimension to their game that would make our already great offense even better. Right now we're playing outside-in with lots of shooters and our big man (Haywood) gets his offense as an afterthought with his knack for offensive boards. With Bosh we'll have the option to play inside out, and instead of relying on drive-and-kick-out to generate open shots, Bosh's double team would free up space for shooters and slashers to move.

[eltacoman]

yeah dam i hope that man is alright he sound like he is a very wise man

i think i would roll with Blake Griffin that way we could most likely keep Haywood

years of contending with this team would be nice
Gilbert - Critt
Caron - Young
Antwan - Dmac
Griffin - Blatch
Wood - Mcgee

[miller31time]

^^^ Bosh isn't really a low-post player. He's a pick-and-pop player and an isolation scorer from the mid-range or driving to the basket.

But that's why I want him on this team. He and Gilbert would be devastating together. Plus, Bosh is a good rebounder and decent defender. As a 2nd option, he'd be practically unstoppable.

Think of it this way - if Jamison and Butler have their games taken to such a high level just from playing with Arenas, think of how much a player who has already established their game being the only credible scorer on their team will do in this offense....

[queridiculo]

with Chris Bosh 29 - 6'10 - 235
Gilbert - Critt
Caron - Young
Antwan - Dmac
Bosh - Blatch
Wood - Mcgee


all are nice too me .... but the one with Bosh looks like a Player ... even if that team has a year to get it done ..... it could be a Celtics type of HOMERUN

Chris Bosh just turned 25 years old in March.

That's why I don't understand the comments about a worn down NBA player. Yeah he's got some mileage on his wheels, but he'd come in and produce from day one without much of an adjustment.

There's almost no way I would make that deal for Griffin, but I certainly wouldn't hesitate to do the same deal for Rubio.

[likwitdesi]

Knowing how EG has operated in the past, I wouldn't be surprised to see DMac get his extension this offseason. Something like 3 yrs/8 mil would be nice.

[doclinkin]

I like Bosh, but no. Griffin, no question. Even without the money consideration.

Unknown if Bosh has peaked; but it's certain Blake hasn't. Yes the NCAAs are diluted of Big talent right now, yes he's never played a game against an NBA-quality center. But Griffin has shown not only dominance in raw power, but face-up finesse, incredible body-control for his size, brodiculous hops for that macktruck frame, and a calm professional determined workmanlike demeanor in the worst circumstances.

Bosh is bright, witty, articulate, writes a good blog, is a computer geek, makes his own videos. We'd have a fun and entertaining lockerroom. Like we have right now. Would the locker room be as fun with Blake in practice? No idea, because he wouldn't be there, he'd be down the hall in the training room pushing heavy stacks, or watching film, or out on the court already shooting.

There are a few Bosh-like players who have had success in the league. And they set a nice precedent: KG, Duncan, Pau Gasol, Rasheed. All have at least played in the Finals. That's the argument for Bosh. But he's not as good as them in their prime. His game is best as an unusually quick face-up big who can take his match-up out to the perimeter then blow past 'em or hit a jumper. But all of the above score with a better percentage down low. Only Sheed and KG shoot more Jumpers than him. Not bad, suits our playstyle if Gil still attacks the basket and Caron decides to risk it in a winning year. He can open things up underneath.

But compared with say Boston, would we have the better line-up? Gil's got the edge on Rondo (though not defensively) Haywood over Perkins, but I'm taking Boston everywhere else in the starters, at both ends of the court. I'm taking the Kobe/Pau/Bynum/Odom Lakers over that Wiz Bosh squad. Yes we're in the conversation, and with Gil you never know, but still I don't see certain dominance in multiple positions. In size. In Defense. In the paint. In the postseason.

With Blake? The kid will be able to score down low. That's not even a question. As a number one overall he won't get rookie treatment from the refs, he's smart, balanced, passes well out of the doubleteam as needed-- but when he goes to the hoop, he puts it in. Even adjusting mid-air, or rising higher than players can challenge. He will score down low at a high %. And in the postseason when teams seize up, you want a player who can do it without even thinking about it.

Other thing:

The cliche goes you can only play with one basketball at a time. Fine. Bosh is top 5 in usage at his position. But Blake won't need the touches to score, won't need to know the plays, won't have to guess where to stand and when to feed his wingman. Even early on he should be able to be effective simply by rebounding the ball and slamming it home. A miss is an assist. With Blake you have more than one ball per possession. Bosh again, nice player, he can go get the thing okay, but Joakim Noah and Andrew Bogut are pulling more available offensive boards than him. He's not a 40/20 type player. He's smart, crafty, long, lean, agile, wiry, wily. But not dominant.

And that's just the raw power aspect. Fact is we've seen Blake hit the face-up jumper, hit the bank shot, take the ball to the rack off the dribble, hit the Jamison flip shot from stupid angles, throw the alley oop to his brother. He's shown nifty tools that he hasn't had to use much in college. The suggestion is, maybe, if he needs to, he could do what Bosh can do -- eventually, given need and given his work ethic. But CB4, nice as he is, he'll never ever be able to do what Blake can do --when he do what he do best. LeBron, Dwight, they're in the conversation. Amare, maybe, though he never had the background and fundamentals.

Dominance.

Would Chris Bosh be the number one player if they were both coming out this year? Which player is more likely to win MVP of an Allstar game? Which one is more likely to dunk on Tim Duncan and dangle their grstly bits in his face.

You don't pass up that kind of talent or potential for a player who is really really good.

[spaceman_E]

Doc said it all, Dominance is the difference. THAT is how you win championships. It's taking D. Howard over Okafor. I think that incident about 8 or so years ago is far enough behind us and this isn't a case of Elton Brand vs a weak draft field either. Blake Griffin all the way.

If we get #2 or lower though... I'd easily take Bosh over any other option(thabeet, amare, hill). Bosh + Kaponovich for pick, Deshawn, Andray, + Etan. Kapono becomes our shooter off the bench every team needs, even if a little overpriced. I think Jamison is enough of a professional to do what's best for the team and come off the bench(he would also play crunch time minutes), but realistically we would have to move either him, Butler or Song to balance salary and minutes.

[barelyawake]

The question is moot because E.G. would never make that trade. Should we? We have no idea, yet. Way too many intangibles to predict -- both from Griffin and Arenas. Obviously, the question is over defense. Bosh has the wingspan to play D, but a lack of desire to play it (though has shown he can, and effectively, "when it matters"). Blake, to date, hasn't show the will to play defense. But, hey neither did Mailman or Jordan fresh out the box. He has the prerequisite will to win/work ethic, and his reluctance may stem from his worry about fouling out. But, regardless of why, thus far he has shown little interest. Plus, he doesn't have the wingspan of Bosh (though obviously has greater hops). Griffin feels like an Amare (or a super A.J.) to me -- which is not what we need on this team. I hope that, with good coaching and proper role models, he can beef up his defensive intensity. But, he can't grow arms and legs. So, obviously we need to look closely at those measurements when they happen. If we could sweeten the deal (with young players/Caron) and get Bosh and their 2010 pick, yes I would trade Griffin. If it were for Aldridge and Rudy, I might trade Griffin for that (if I 100% knew that Arenas was going to be healthy). Straight-up for Bosh, I doubt I would take the chance (but, that could easily be a mistake -- I mean for the team as currently constructed).

Blake will obviously be dominant offensively. That's not at question. But, if Griffin is Amare, then we need to seriously restructure this team to win a championship. That means trading for some awfully good defenders (and maybe even swapping Arenas, for someone who can d up). But, if Blake proves to be a "franchise player," which he probably will, then it's worth basing the team around him.

If you trade for Bosh, you trade for Hinrich (or someone of his ilk) as well, and run:

Hinrich
Arenas
Caron
Bosh
Haywood

That way, you change the dynamic of "can we beat Boston." Because now, Hinrich is on Allen defensively, and Arenas (hopefully) is blowing by Rondo. Caron and P. are close (edge to P.). Bosh (if playing D) is only a couple levels worse than KG (in terms of stats, not overall effect in the game). And I take Haywood. And we might even have A.J. off the bench in this scenario. So, it basically comes down to will. And I'll take Arenas on will. It's close. Close enough to try it -- if you knew Griffin was never going to be a good defender, and that Arenas was going to be the Arenas of old. Though again, we aren't trading Griffin, and probably shouldn't (because Blake is a leader, and Bosh is not). So, the point is moot.

[eltacoman]

Blake Griffin #1

doclinkin is right Bosh would need the ball to much .... Blake would not. he would be all over the putbacks and ally ops rebound slams ... im down for Blake Griffin baby !!!!! come one Abe call in your last wish to David Stern

[nate33]

If you trade for Bosh, you trade for Hinrich (or someone of his ilk) as well, and run:

Hinrich
Arenas
Caron
Bosh
Haywood

That way, you change the dynamic of "can we beat Boston." Because now, Hinrich is on Allen defensively, and Arenas (hopefully) is blowing by Rondo. Caron and P. are close (edge to P.). Bosh (if playing D), is only a couple levels worse than KG (in terms of stats, not overall effect in the game). And I take Haywood. And we might even have A.J. off the bench in this scenario. So, it basically comes down to will. And I'll take Arenas on will. It's close. Close enough to try it -- if you knew Griffin was never going to be a good defender, and that Arenas was going to be the Arenas of old). Though again, we aren't trading Griffin, and probably shouldn't (because Blake is a leader, and Bosh is not). So, the point is moot.

I like that plan. I just like it better with Griffin instead of Bosh. Draft Griffin. Trade Jamison for Hinrich, and we'd be good to go. Hinrich would be a better teammate with Griffin than with Bosh IMO. As a big PG, Hinrich should be good at feeding the post, and he can catch-and-shoot from 3-point range.

PG: Hinrich/Arenas
SG: Arenas/Young
SF: Butler/DMac
PF: Griffin/Songaila
C: Haywood/Blatche/McGee
filler: James, Etan, Stevenson, Crittenton, Pecherov

Yeah. That works. It also saves $2.1M next year and $4.3M the year after.

[fishercob]

how bout folding this into the trade thread, mods?