Official Trade Thread VIII: 4/21/09 - 6/25/09

[DaRealHibachi]

Outlaw would be sick... We could use his shooting and size at SF... Is he a good defender??? If he is, make it happen EG!!!

[pancakes3]

he plays the role of manu better than manu. better shooter, more athletic, more durable (knock on wood)... Rudy F is wasted on the blazers. he deserves to start. for us...

let the trade scenarios commence: #3+#33+Stevenson for Rudy + #24?

Commence? Coming up with the Rudy trade idea a couple months ago was my crowning achievement on this board and in life.

edit: re-commence. after all, this board is decidedly cyclical in its posts. in about 3 days we'll be rehashing MIke Miller/Hinrich trades, then vince/TMac trades, and then BAM we find ourselves back discussing Rudy.

[BigA]

^Need to get Kevin Martin back in that rotation. A this point, the trade thread, draft thread, and "luck be a lady" threads are interwoven discussions of the same thing.

[Benjammin]

^Need to get Kevin Martin back in that rotation. A this point, the trade thread, draft thread, and "luck be a lady" threads are interwoven discussions of the same thing.

It's called being in a holding pattern until the draft lottery results are known. After that our speculation can be somewhat more informed, although still speculation nonetheless. Let's just get number 1, draft Blake, and then the speculation will be how to balance out the roster. I'd love to see that happen.

[LyricalRico]

^Need to get Kevin Martin back in that rotation. A this point, the trade thread, draft thread, and "luck be a lady" threads are interwoven discussions of the same thing.

If the Kings don't end up at #1 or #2, I could absolutely see them considering moving Martin. The downside could be that they insist on making Udrih's contract part of the deal. How about this:

Wizards trade: Etan, James, Stevenson, Critt, and Young
Kings trade: Martin and Udrih

Could the Kings go for that? They get two young backcourt prospects and significant financial savings. If they want a 2010 first I wouldn't consider that a deal breaker. We fill our SG spot for years to come and this also frees us up to take a combo guard like Evans and bring him along slowly.

Haywood/Blatche/McGee
Jamison/Songaila
Butler/McGuire
Martin/Evans
Arenas/Udrih/Evans

The big problem for the Wiz is the financial implications. Since the organization probably won't trade Jamison, we'd be looking at unloading guys like Blatche and Songaila for cap space in 2010, along with letting McGuire walk. Not the end of the world but lack of depth could easily become a longterm problem.

[WizarDynasty]

there is no way flip is going to trade away his KG clone in Blatche. And he has probably never had a shooting guard with the offensive basketball IQ and combo physical attributes of Young. Jamison low percentage chucker. Shoot a low field goal percentage for a poweforward. I think Flips experience with championship teams will allow him to immediately identify who the players are on this team that shoot high volume of shots at low field goal percentage against ranked teams. Once that stat is maginfied, combined this with who doesn't play defense..and poof...EG will will build the team tailored to Flip. There is no way flip can go from having two defensive powerforwards with rasheed and kevin Garnett...to a shot jacking perimeter powerforward that plays no defense and gets most of his offensive points and defensive rebounds off other people's ability to break down a defense not post up moves.
Wants he studied tape of all the contested jumpers caron takes and number of times his shot gets blocked because he plays below the rim, caron should be headed out of DC too.

[pancakes3]

LR, i'm not crazy about your trade. I think there could be more tweaking. Frankly, i don't see a Sactown trade possible unless it's a 3-way. For the kings to trade away martin and take on expirings/draft picks is like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. they simply just don't have enough talent to afford getting rid of martin.

even the greatest PG in the world would flounder with nobody to pass to.

[LyricalRico]

For the kings to trade away martin and take on expirings/draft picks is like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

Yeah, it would be like getting a refund on the $100 chairs and replacing them with chairs from the dollar store. If the ship is going to sink anyway, why lose money at the same time?

My deal allows them to wipe away their biggest contract and their worst contract while getting essentially 3 first round picks (Young, Critt, and Rubio) while they also get to keep their own lotto pick. They get to start completely over with a young core, who should all look better playing next to a pure PG. Maybe it's not their first choice of offseason moves but I think it does have some merit as a longterm strategy.

[fugop]

What do people think about Kyle Weaver? He's a high efficiency, very low volume scorer. Pretty good assist and rebounding totals. Reputed to be a decent defender, shown marginally in on-off numbers. Hard to tell, considering he was playing alongside Westbrook and Watson on a young team. I suspect he could perform at a Stevenson level, without the boneheadedness, and with some potential for growth. Not to be repetitive, but he's also another potential Alvin Williams.

With Thabo, OKC has wasteful redundancy at SG. Weaver could be available for cheap, along the lines of Pecherov for Weaver straight up. A good roster-balancing move for both teams.

[Ruzious]

there is no way flip is going to trade away his KG clone in Blatche.

To imply that Blatche is even close to KG is beyond absurd.

And he has probably never had a shooting guard with the offensive basketball IQ and combo physical attributes of Young.

Basketball IQ of Young... Is that a joke?

Jamison low percentage chucker. Shoot a low field goal percentage for a poweforward. I think Flips experience with championship teams will allow him to immediately identify who the players are on this team that shoot high volume of shots at low field goal percentage against ranked teams. Once that stat is maginfied, combined this with who doesn't play defense..and poof...EG will will build the team tailored to Flip. There is no way flip can go from having two defensive powerforwards with rasheed and kevin Garnett...to a shot jacking perimeter powerforward that plays no defense and gets most of his offensive points and defensive rebounds off other people's ability to break down a defense not post up moves.

Sheed's obviously a much better defender than Jamison, so you don't need to make up bullshyt to make a point. Sheed relies on long jumpers every bit as much as Jamison does. They had the exact same number of 3 attempts last season. Sheed hasn't made over 44% of his FGs in any of the last 6 seasons, while Jamison has 4 times. [/quote]

[WizarDynasty]

there is no way flip is going to trade away his KG clone in Blatche.

To imply that Blatche is even close to KG is beyond absurd.

And he has probably never had a shooting guard with the offensive basketball IQ and combo physical attributes of Young.

Basketball IQ of Young... Is that a joke?

Jamison low percentage chucker. Shoot a low field goal percentage for a poweforward. I think Flips experience with championship teams will allow him to immediately identify who the players are on this team that shoot high volume of shots at low field goal percentage against ranked teams. Once that stat is maginfied, combined this with who doesn't play defense..and poof...EG will will build the team tailored to Flip. There is no way flip can go from having two defensive powerforwards with rasheed and kevin Garnett...to a shot jacking perimeter powerforward that plays no defense and gets most of his offensive points and defensive rebounds off other people's ability to break down a defense not post up moves.

Sheed's obviously a much better defender than Jamison, so you don't need to make up bullshyt to make a point. Sheed relies on long jumpers every bit as much as Jamison does. They had the exact same number of 3 attempts last season. Sheed hasn't made over 44% of his FGs in any of the last 6 seasons, while Jamison has 4 times.

[/quote]

Rasheed's post game during clutch when flip was around...so take your bullshyt somewhere else secondly...blatche has range on his jumper and 100 blocks. Only a handful of players have this ability...comprende...and yeah Nick Youngs can take over a game offensively...can't do that with a low basketball IQ...comprende. All Nick young needs a coach who has more to say than.."take two dribble and shoot or pass". You are dealing with a heavy weight...your best suited for tackling light weight arguments related the wiz..

[LyricalRico]

"You are dealing with a heavy weight..."



Oh man, this is CLASSIC stuff!

Nobody doubts that Blatche has talent. But to compare a bench player to a guy who for most of his career has been one of the top 10 or so players ON THE PLANET can't be viewed as anything other than a stretch of ridiculous proportions.

Also, how many games has Nick Young taken over exactly? If you mean the handful of games where he's scored 20+ points, how many of those did the Wiz actually win? I don't think you can credit a guy with "taking over" a game unless the team wins. And how does scoring a lot of points once in a blue moon equate to a guy having a high basketball IQ? In reality, it's his low IQ that's keeping him from having big games more often.

Seems to me that the only thing you're a "heavy weight" in is hyperbolic conjecture based on a myopic view of selected facts (which, coming from a guy like me who drove the board crazy with my anti-EJ rants, should probably be taken as a compliment). By all means, keep up the comedy. It helps to pass the time while waiting for the lottery!

[Ruzious]

Rasheed's post game during clutch when flip was around...

That's not a sentence. It's not even a thought. The fact is you were wrong, and - rather than admitting it - you just blathered some incoherent garbage.

blatche has range on his jumper and 100 blocks. Only a handful of players have this ability...comprende

And he's nowhere near the player that KG is and has shown no reason to believe he ever will.

and yeah Nick Youngs can take over a game offensively...can't do that with a low basketball IQ...comprende. All Nick young needs a coach who has more to say than.."take two dribble and shoot or pass". You are dealing with a heavy weight...your best suited for tackling light weight arguments related the wiz..

Fine, we can all agree that Nick Young's offensive basketball IQ ranks right up there with yours.

[daoneandonly]

Hey guys, hope you all are well. I am a depressed Mavs fan (after that horrible performance against Den) in the area and wanted to get your opinion on something. If you guys won the lottery, would you consider trading Blake Griffin along with contracts like Thomas, James, and Songalia for Dirk Nowitzki? I think Dirk on the Wiz kids put them right there with Cleveland and Boston as favorites in the East, even better than Orl. Just wanted to see how Wiz fans felt about that, I thought about including Jamison instead of the others but that didn't seem fair for Wash. Thanks in advance for the feedback.

[fishercob]

This belongs in our trade thread.

Probably not. The prevailing view is that Griffin at his salary is a better value than Dirk at his. But it would be hard to say no to Dirk for Griffin/Jamison/Stevenson/Thomas. If there was a way to get Terry too without obliterating our lux tax, that would be appealing.

[nate33]

This belongs in our trade thread.

Probably not. The prevailing view is that Griffin at his salary is a better value than Dirk at his. But it would be hard to say no to Dirk for Griffin/Jamison/Stevenson/Thomas.

Exactly. Griffin costs 1/4th as much as Dirk and he's much less redundant with Jamison because he has a power game. Having Jamison and Dirk together just doesn't make any sense in the current salary cap environment.

If there was a way to get Terry too without obliterating our lux tax, that would be appealing.

There isn't.

[Benjammin]

Dirk would have to agree to an extension that is somewhat reasonable 15-16 million a year. Plus add Jason Terry to the deal for (Griffin 1st pick, Jamison, Thomas, Stevenson, James). I don't see Dallas doing it unless they decided to blow up their team completely. It would not impact the luxury tax significantly in 2009 but it would increase it significantly in 2010. It would be adding two guys in their 30s so the window of opportunity would be small. If Blake ends up being a Karl Malone type then this deal will not look pretty short of winning a title or two. Maybe consider trading Butler for a Tayshaun Prince type guy to get a little more defense into the starting lineup. It would probably take a commitment to pay even more luxury tax to fill out the roster with veterans looking for a ring. I probably would not make the deal, but would certainly be tempted.

C Haywood McGee Blatche
PF Nowitzki Blatche Songaila
SF Butler McGuire
SG Terry Young
PG Arenas Crittenton

Another guard would be very useful, particularly a defensive oriented one.

[doclinkin]

And he has probably never had a shooting guard with the offensive basketball IQ and combo physical attributes of Young.

Basketball IQ of Young... Is that a joke?

...and yeah Nick Youngs can take over a game offensively...can't do that with a low basketball IQ...comprende. All Nick young needs a coach who has more to say than.."take two dribble and shoot or pass". You are dealing with a heavy weight...your best suited for tackling light weight arguments related the wiz..

No man. Your guy 'The Lion' certified basketnerd heavyweight TheSecretWeapon said (based on conversation with Wiz front office people) that after two years Nick Young didn't even know many of the basic plays, that the team couldn't run many of the sets because he didn't get it.

That betrays a low basketball IQ, offensive or no. Nick Young has talent, but his understanding of how to play the _team_ game lags waaaay behind his athletic potential. In fact it's just about the only thing preventing him from succeeding at a potential allstar level.

And there are real questions wheter he can learn Flip Saunder's supposedly complex playbook. I suspect Flip is smart enough to find away to use him, but if he has limited IQ to adjsut, he's stuck as a 6th man specialist whenever you can afford to only run the plays he knows.

What do people think about Kyle Weaver? He's a high efficiency, very low volume scorer. Pretty good assist and rebounding totals. Reputed to be a decent defender, shown marginally in on-off numbers. Hard to tell, considering he was playing alongside Westbrook and Watson on a young team. I suspect he could perform at a Stevenson level, without the boneheadedness, and with some potential for growth. Not to be repetitive, but he's also another potential Alvin Williams.

I like Weaver. He's on the DMac/TerrWms/Crittenton spectrum of guys who work hard at the non-scoring aspects of the position. In all I'm not sure I'd count him an upgrade over McGuire (bigger, more versatile in whom you can match up against, better rebounding) though Weaver's offensive game is a little more developed than McGuire. I'd take him as an upgrade over Crittenton though.

[fugop]

The difference between Weaver and the others is that he shoots at a decent percentage. He shoots 48% on jumpers, 57% on close, 34% on 3PA.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08OKC5.HTM

He's just extremely low volume. I don't know why that is -- he could be gun shy ("exercise good shot selection"), or it could be a product of the OKC offense and his back court mate. Both Weaver and Sefolosha took about 10 FGA per 48. Westbrook and Durant, combined, take 44 shots/48.

Weaver also lacks the athleticism of the other guys you mentioned, though he looks to have decent size, length, and quickness. He's just not explosive, is a bit more cerebral; more Battier than McGuire.

I've been procrastinating with work, pondering which SGs in the league might be underutilized/undervalued relative to their fit on the Wizards. There just aren't that many out there who retain some potential yet have demonstrated that they are already serviceable players. The problem is compounded by the fact that a few teams -- GSW and PDX, primarily -- are hording young G/Fs. Weaver is about the only one I could come up with.

[doclinkin]

The difference between Weaver and the others is that he shoots at a decent percentage. He shoots 48% on jumpers, 57% on close, 34% on 3PA.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08OKC5.HTM

He's just extremely low volume.

Well sure, and McGuire hits 3's at a 50% rate, though he shoot's em only once every ten games or so...

Weaver has always only risked one outside shot per game. Even at Washington State. And he's never scored much, just barely cracking into double digits even as a featured player in college. But he's always racked stats in the other significant categories, while maintaining a low foul rate. Sure, maybe he's just super cautious, but the offensive output is still the same either way:

comparison.

The question is whether we add a guy who is an upgrade for the player they're displacing. And between McGuire and Weaver, for now I give the edge to DMac, even at the 2-spot. HIs rebounding shows up high in the charts for any player at any given position, whereas Weaver's shooting is pretty good, but nothing really special. Between Weaver and JCritt, I think I'd lean toward Weaver. Dunno. Right, could be Weaver would be an even better player spotting up for open shots next to Gil though. Like I said, I like him alright.