Official Trade Thread VIII: 4/21/09 - 6/25/09

[Ced67]

there is no way flip is going to trade away his KG clone in Blatche. And he has probably never had a shooting guard with the offensive basketball IQ and combo physical attributes of Young. Jamison low percentage chucker. Shoot a low field goal percentage for a poweforward. I think Flips experience with championship teams will allow him to immediately identify who the players are on this team that shoot high volume of shots at low field goal percentage against ranked teams. Once that stat is maginfied, combined this with who doesn't play defense..and poof...EG will will build the team tailored to Flip. There is no way flip can go from having two defensive powerforwards with rasheed and kevin Garnett...to a shot jacking perimeter powerforward that plays no defense and gets most of his offensive points and defensive rebounds off other people's ability to break down a defense not post up moves.
Wants he studied tape of all the contested jumpers caron takes and number of times his shot gets blocked because he plays below the rim, caron should be headed out of DC too.

I wasn't planning on posting anything today, just wanted to read some other posts and see what the scuttlebutt was but I couldn't resist on this one. Please explain to me how Blatche is a KG clone when two of KG's biggest attributes are his work ethic and intensity. Blatche has some skill but he doesn't lift weights, doesn't condition himself well and is soft. Garnett isn't huge, but he keeps his body at tip top condition even at 33, Blatche is 22 and has done nothing when it should be easy. I understand he has a long wingspan and can contest shots when he decides to play but that doesn't make him a KG clone.

As far as Nick Young is concerned, yes he can take over games offensively by himself but that might be an indictment on his lack of basketball IQ being that he can't do it within a team mentality, it doesn't take a genius to take a guy 1 on 1 and beat him, lets see him do it 5 on 5. Tayshon Prince has one of the highest basketball IQ's in the game and you rarely see him go 1 on 1.

I don't even know what the last sentence is suppose to say but I guess if you want to ship Caron and Jamison out, it would make perfect sense to build the team around Blatche and Young, but it would only work if the zards had the option to throw away the 41 games during the season that they didn't show up. When those guys where on the floor together without Jamison and Butler they really lit it up didn't they. But I guess if both of them have long wingspans and excellent lateral acceleration we should be in good hands. All that would be left to do is to draft Aminu even though he's not coming out and we would be a championship contender in no time. Maybe he could split time with us and Wake Forest for this year because he is clearly ready to be the next Tayshon Prince, he's the perfect 2 way player even though he's never played a minute in the NBA and can't score consistently in college. Remember he has a long wingspan and excellent lateral acceleration and he has a long wing span and excellent lateral acceleration, obviously he'd be better than Caron. Also, he has a long wingspan and excellent lateral acceleration.

I have a ?.....Do you post this stuff to stir up talk like a radio show host, or do you actually believe what you type?

[pancakes3]

quick thought on Nick Young:

cup half full, cup half empty... whenever Young scores 20+ more often than not it's him shooting an incredible % - like in the 70%'s. The kid is unstoppable when he's "on" but the problem is he's only been "on" about 20 times in 170 or so tries. Which is more encouraging? The fact that he has this switch that can be flipped where he's unguardable, or the fact that he's only in the zone every 8th game or so?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Nick's a guy I want to see after spending the summer working out with Gilbert. I want to see how Saunders uses him. If Nick doesn't step it up on the boards, defensively, and with consistency on offense; he's a guy I wouldn't mind seeing traded.

I remember how I felt about Young on draft night: That he's not a real bright guy, and that he'll shoot it a lot and do little else.

[Dat2U]

I remember how I felt about Young on draft night: That he's not a real bright guy, and that he'll shoot it a lot and do little else.

I think alot of us felt that way on draft night. And for once we all were exactly right. Nick Young's career thus far reads as many expected. I remember after the draft TSW said that he thought Nick would have moments where he would "tease and tantalize" but would terribly inconsistent. I said I thought he was a slightly poor man's version of Jamal Crawford. The comments back then have all been dead on.

He's an immature, low IQ player who struggles mightly to fit into the team concept and brings nothing to the table outside the ability to create his own shot. He's got all the physical tools and brings along an ideal skillset for an SG but he does so little with it other than dribbling around the create an opportunity to take an open fadeway.

He's not a bust b/c he's talented enough to be a quality scorer off the bench but he's not the answer IMO as a starting SG. Maybe Gil can help him get his head out of his ass but I remain skeptical about his long term impact. I suspect he's got decent trade value so including him in a package for a quality veteran may be an ideal move.

[nate33]

I think it worth noting that Young statistically appears to be one of the team's best defenders. I agree that his low basketball IQ is always going to be a problem, but he's more than just a one-on-one scorer. I think he shows promise of being a pretty decent one-on-one defender as well.

[Dat2U]

I hear ya Nate but for some reason I just don't buy it. I think it may have been a statistical anomaly. If it happens again this year then I'll change course but it may be any number of reasons why Nick's on/off numbers were better than others.

Truth be told, despite all of Nick's flaws, he was our best perimeter player which is damning indictment on a roster sans Gilbert Arenas. Were talking about Nick replacing the likes of Mike James, DeShawn Stevenson, Javaris Crittenton or even Dominic McGuire (who's still a work in progress on both ends of the court) in the lineup so that might account for something too.

[shrink]

WAS GETS: Mike Miller + Telfair + Bobby Brown + $2.25 mil TPE
MIN GETS : Etan Thomas + Pecherov + Mike James + #3

I've ran more numbers, and I think this works best for the Mike Miller fans.

This adds the unselfish Mike Miller as your SG/6th man. He can score, but he's willing (maybe too willing) too pass, and he's the #1 rebounding SG in the NBA. He and Bobby Brown are expirings, and Telfair is a nice fit at a safe $2.7 mil next year. These are the types of low salaries you need backing up Arenas. I think this also balances your roster very well. With Jamison and Haywood starting, you've got minutes for Blatche and McGee.

Financially, this trade realistically saves the Wizards over $12 mil. With Etan's trade kicker, MIN can take back $16.49, and this comes out to $16.47 to maximize the TPE. It removes the added salary of the #3 ($3.87), so when its doubled for the lux, there's a big savings.

MIN is giving up more talent, but they'd get some use out of Etan and OPech, allowing Al Jefferson to play more of his natural PF. Perhaps the Wolves could swap James for Ridnour, who the bucks are not fond of right now, or buy him out if he wants to return to you.

[shrink]

Warriors Fan here:

Assuming that Ricky Rubio falls on your lap. It doesn't seem like he'd be the type to play along side arenas since arenas like to have the ball in his hands at all times.

What would it take to get Arenas from you. The only one I would be untouchable would be Andris and Randolph.
I think that you guys have played a majority of your years without a healthy Arenas that maybe Ricky Rubio might bring forth a new era to wizards bball.

It would take Andris & Randolph.

You really think you could come in here, take your two best prospects off the table and believe we'd be interested?

You believe were over here just wishing Jamal Crawford or Corey Maggette would fall in our laps?

IBTM

That was too harsh. Arenas may return to being one of the best PG's in the NBA, but with his mega-contract, he carries an unbelievable amount of risk. I believe that he is the highest paid player in the NBA right now in 2012-13 at $21 mil, and 2013-14 at $22 mil. Players aren't getting these giant long contracts any more, and the NBA's economic contraction means that this amount is going to be painful even if Arenas is 100%.

Crawford is no Arenas, but his deal expires in 2011, when Gilbert is still owed over $62 mil for the next three years. When Arenas is making $22 mil in 2013-14, do you know what Biedrins is making? $9. And you are saying it would take both Biedrins AND Randolph? That's too far, and is a complete neglect of his contract in the NBA's current economic climate.

[fishercob]

WAS GETS: Mike Miller + Telfair + Bobby Brown + $2.25 mil TPE
MIN GETS : Etan Thomas + Pecherov + Mike James + #3

I've ran more numbers, and I think this works best for the Mike Miller fans.

This adds the unselfish Mike Miller as your SG/6th man. He can score, but he's willing (maybe too willing) too pass, and he's the #1 rebounding SG in the NBA. He and Bobby Brown are expirings, and Telfair is a nice fit at a safe $2.7 mil next year. These are the types of low salaries you need backing up Arenas. I think this also balances your roster very well. With Jamison and Haywood starting, you've got minutes for Blatche and McGee.

Financially, this trade realistically saves the Wizards over $12 mil. With Etan's trade kicker, MIN can take back $16.49, and this comes out to $16.47 to maximize the TPE. It removes the added salary of the #3 ($3.87), so when its doubled for the lux, there's a big savings.

MIN is giving up more talent, but they'd get some use out of Etan and OPech, allowing Al Jefferson to play more of his natural PF. Perhaps the Wolves could swap James for Ridnour, who the bucks are not fond of right now, or buy him out if he wants to return to you.

This isn't a bad deal in a vacuum, but I don't think it works for the Wizards. We need more than a season out of Miller to justify trading Thabeet for him. Problem is we're trading away our salary cap relief next summer, so there's no way the Wiz could afford to keep Miller and Haywood.

If Miller were signed longer term and if we could include Stevenson or Songaila instead of James or Etan, this could work. But I doubt that works for Minny, so we're probably not good trade partners.

[Ruzious]

WAS GETS: Mike Miller + Telfair + Bobby Brown + $2.25 mil TPE
MIN GETS : Etan Thomas + Pecherov + Mike James + #3

I've ran more numbers, and I think this works best for the Mike Miller fans.

This adds the unselfish Mike Miller as your SG/6th man. He can score, but he's willing (maybe too willing) too pass, and he's the #1 rebounding SG in the NBA. He and Bobby Brown are expirings, and Telfair is a nice fit at a safe $2.7 mil next year. These are the types of low salaries you need backing up Arenas. I think this also balances your roster very well. With Jamison and Haywood starting, you've got minutes for Blatche and McGee.

Financially, this trade realistically saves the Wizards over $12 mil. With Etan's trade kicker, MIN can take back $16.49, and this comes out to $16.47 to maximize the TPE. It removes the added salary of the #3 ($3.87), so when its doubled for the lux, there's a big savings.

MIN is giving up more talent, but they'd get some use out of Etan and OPech, allowing Al Jefferson to play more of his natural PF. Perhaps the Wolves could swap James for Ridnour, who the bucks are not fond of right now, or buy him out if he wants to return to you.

This isn't a bad deal in a vacuum, but I don't think it works for the Wizards. We need more than a season out of Miller to justify trading Thabeet for him. Problem is we're trading away our salary cap relief next summer, so there's no way the Wiz could afford to keep Miller and Haywood.

If Miller were signed longer term and if we could include Stevenson or Songaila instead of James or Etan, this could work. But I doubt that works for Minny, so we're probably not good trade partners.

Your last paragraph is exactly right. If we're going to trade for Miller, it makes a lot more sense to trade Stevenson and Songaila than James and Etan. Even though S&S have lower salaries, the key is that James and Etan are expirings. A more realistic trade would be Miller & Minny's 1st next year for Stevenson, Songaila, Pech, and the 3rd pick. As protection, if Minny's pick is in the top 3, Minny gets our pick - How's that for creativity? Minny fans may not like it, but that's fine. We don't need to make a trade, and they need a true center. Good luck finding one.

[Ruzious]

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but if the draft goes according to odds - Sac 1 and Wash 2... there's a thread in the Trade Board with Sac fans saying they want to trade down for Rubio. They feel confident about their PF situation. Thompson had an impressive rookie year there, and Diogu finished the season with the 2 best games of his career. And their PG situation is... really bad - with Udrih basically it. The Maloofs probably aren't going to have the team under the cap this offseason, but they will the off-season after. The Sac fans want to stick us with Udrih's 4 more years - and I don't think that'll work. But it seems like there should be something workable there - since they seem to really prefer Rubio, and we do want Griffin. Any thoughts?

[LyricalRico]

The Sac fans want to stick us with Udrih's 4 more years - and I don't think that'll work. But it seems like there should be something workable there - since they seem to really prefer Rubio, and we do want Griffin. Any thoughts?

Taking back Udrih sucks but remember - we're the ones trading up here. I don't think it's unreasonable for the Kings to ask to swap Udrih's 4 years for only two years of Songaila+Stevenson if they are giving up the #1 overall pick. I would absolutely do that.

[Ruzious]

The Sac fans want to stick us with Udrih's 4 more years - and I don't think that'll work. But it seems like there should be something workable there - since they seem to really prefer Rubio, and we do want Griffin. Any thoughts?

Taking back Udrih sucks but remember - we're the ones trading up here. I don't think it's unreasonable for the Kings to ask to swap Udrih's 4 years for only two years of Songaila+Stevenson if they are giving up the #1 overall pick. I would absolutely do that.

Thing is - I don't think they need to do that. They've got barely over 30 mil committed to the 2010/2011 season. I'd think they'd want to go for talent - rather than trying to save money.

[LyricalRico]

^ Not a bad point. But it may not be all about cap space. Memphis dumped salary just so can they lose less money while they rebuild. The Kings (whos owners are probably already taking a hit from lower casino revenue) might be thinking the same thing.

But if you're right about them wanting talent over savings, I'm assuming you mean they would want Blatche or Nick Young. They also have the #23 pick in the draft so whoever they get there could have an impact on who they would want from us.

I still think they'd want the savings, though. I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted one of our expiring contracts for Udrih, which would make the deal a bit more dicey for me because of Haywood needing a new deal.

[Ruzious]

^ Not a bad point. But it may not be all about cap space. Memphis dumped salary just so can they lose less money while they rebuild. The Kings (whos owners are probably already taking a hit from lower casino revenue) might be thinking the same thing.

But if you're right about them wanting talent over savings, I'm assuming you mean they would want Blatche or Nick Young. They also have the #23 pick in the draft so whoever they get there could have an impact on who they would want from us.

I still think they'd want the savings, though. I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted one of our expiring contracts for Udrih, which would make the deal a bit more dicey for me because of Haywood needing a new deal.

Yeah, that's why we don't make a deal that includes Udrih. It'd lead to unfortunate decisions.

[Dat2U]

I'd take on Udrih to get Griffin but only if SAC takes back Stevenson and probably Critt. Griffin is worth it IMO. Udrih would be our severly overpriced backup but maybe in time we could use Blatche to get him off our cap.

The key though if we take on Udrih, Mike James & Etan Thomas cannot be traded. We'd have to let their contracts expire or better yet just cut them.

Griffin's arrival would also speed up the potential departure of Jamison so that could create some cap flexibility as well.

[pancakes3]

Players aren't getting these giant long contracts any more, and the NBA's economic contraction means that this amount is going to be painful even if Arenas is 100%.

tell that to Joe Johnson, who's going to get PAIIIIiiD. Then give that same speech to the 2010 bumper crop.


As for the Kings trading down... It's kind of a game of chicken. We know that they're set on Jason Thompson and want Rubio. They know we want griffin. We could chance it that the kings wouldn't screw both teams over and draft griffin and leave us Rubio... or the Kings could screw us both and draft griffin and leave us rubio. Who blinks first? I feel like it's akin to negotiating with terrorists to let the kings front office bully us into eating Udrih's contract needlessly.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'd take on Udrih to get Griffin but only if SAC takes back Stevenson and probably Critt. Griffin is worth it IMO. Udrih would be our severly overpriced backup but maybe in time we could use Blatche to get him off our cap.

The key though if we take on Udrih, Mike James & Etan Thomas cannot be traded. We'd have to let their contracts expire or better yet just cut them.

Griffin's arrival would also speed up the potential departure of Jamison so that could create some cap flexibility as well.

+1

Wiz do need a backup PG and Beno could end up being serviceably better than last season, when he sucked.

I also think it won't be hard to trade Jamison in year or two, if Griffin's who the Wizards pick up in trade.

[mhd]

I'd trade Critt+Stevenson+Etan for Kenny Thomas+Udrich.

[LyricalRico]

I'd trade Critt+Stevenson+Etan for Kenny Thomas+Udrich.

if we could be reasonably sure we're getting the Udrih of 2007-08 maybe (which could be true under Flip) and that would be ONLY of the Wiz were substantially under the tax. But with the current salary situation this would be a horrific deal.