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Book Thread. I have nothing good to read.

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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#61 » by Ruzious » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:51 am

barelyawake wrote:
Ruzious wrote: He's not trying to write a work of literature. So yeah, King is definitely not for the English majors or the lit elite; but for ordinary shmoes, he's great.

LOL Dude, you've identified the problem. I'm a snob about literature (and most art, if the truth be known). I hardly even touch modern fiction because it hasn't had enough time to age into a classic lol. I laughed at what Bannd said about Faulkner -- because I did the exact same thing with "Gatsby" (which only happens to be one of the greatest, American novels). Back when I was a decent poet myself, and used to read the dictionary for fun, I had some cred on the issue. Now, of course, I don't (though still have it when it comes to the musical and visual arts -- because I still have chops in those arenas). So yeah, It's me. I get that. Don't take offense. I'm just expressing my warped, elitist view. Same reason why I hate Eminem's new album BTW. As soon as I heard him mention Kim Cardashian, I was searching for the trash bin.

To quote Happy Gilmore and Montegue - "You think you're better than me?" And then you say, "Yes, I do! I am smarter than you, stronger than you, and more handsome than you, so stfu!". Me: Well done, sir. Have a Miller Lite. :beer: You: Oh, how goshe.
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#62 » by barelyawake » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:42 pm

LOL Well, Ruz you can take comfort in this. Being a grandiloquent (great word) highbrow, I slam my noodle against the keyboard in abject humiliation when I notice my own flaws -- such as how I capitalized "It's" in that last post. Trust me, dyslexia is the worst affliction to give a guy like me -- especially when one can remember how proficient they were with the language. Perhaps, it was God's way of teaching me meekness. But, as I said, I have my visual arts and music. So, not so bad.

Back on point, I tend to dig the female poets. Check out Maxine Chernoff. Matter of fact, in college I read a girl's poem in a lit mag and was instantly smitten. So much so, I spent a week tracking her down. Of course, when I actually discovered what she looked like... As I explained, I'm a snob.
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#63 » by Ruzious » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:13 pm

barelyawake wrote:LOL Well, Ruz you can take comfort in this. Being a grandiloquent (great word) highbrow, I slam my noodle against the keyboard in abject humiliation when I notice my own flaws -- such as how I capitalized "It's" in that last post. Trust me, dyslexia is the worst affliction to give a guy like me -- especially when one can remember how proficient they were with the language. Perhaps, it was God's way of teaching me meekness. But, as I said, I have my visual arts and music. So, not so bad.

Back on point, I tend to dig the female poets. Check out Maxine Chernoff. Matter of fact, in college I read a girl's poem in a lit mag and was instantly smitten. So much so, I spent a week tracking her down. Of course, when I actually discovered what she looked like... As I explained, I'm a snob.

That girl poet's name wasn't Nicki; was it? My brother told me of a similar experience he had, but he's a saint (We obviously turned out differently.), and he actually married the girl poet he fell in love with - despite the outward stuff - and they're living happily ever after, while I... live with 2 cats... and read crappy books. :(
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#64 » by doclinkin » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:13 pm

'gauche' by the way.
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#65 » by Ruzious » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:15 pm

doclinkin wrote:'gauche' by the way.

Takes one to know one... er something like that. Hah!

Or is it ha?
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#66 » by Mortality Pie » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:34 pm

I'm a sucker for apocalyptic fiction. Some good ones that I've read recently:

Noir - Olivier Pauvert
Hater - David Moody
The Possibility of an Island - Michel Houllebecq

For some cool 60's avant garde free-form stuff, check Mumbo Jumbo by Ishmael Reed.

I also really like Palahniuk. Has anybody read Pygmy? I'm not sure what to make of it.

He Hate Me wrote:Has anyone read 2666 by Bolano, Ham on Rye by Bukowski, or Bird of Time by Effinger? I am considering all these books for my next read.

.


I read Savage Detectives by Bolano, and I'm definitely considering picking up 2666 as well.
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#67 » by doclinkin » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:03 pm

Late night and the highway is hissing, road spray from a passing truck overloads the wiper blades you know you should have changed a dozen storms ago; and your tired is tired. When you roll off at the next blue sign with the proper icons, and turn the corner: that Stuckey's logo, that '...billions sold', that Dunkin' logo-- like a natural born relief, you'll make a choice. Anywhere in America you know where you are.

And if the lady behind the counter is a little odd, a little too old, wandering eye makes it look like she's talking to a guy who isn't behind you. If there's a booth with two long-haul truckers, rigs idling out back, one turns his head when you come in. If you have a bleary moment when the menu makes no real sense, or if --coffee in hand-- the rain on the window beads up like gel, like jellyfish on the sand, no really what the f*ck-- like Dippity Doo hair gel that your sister used to use in junior high.

Well that sense of the familiar becomes threatening. It could be you, here, on this page.

It's a shortcut. Stephen King is saying: the setting is today, the time is now, and I'll write another book next month if you need me to keep it current. Little is so dated as last month's 'now', read a People magazine from six months ago and you might feel a sort of sick feeling at how quickly popular culture expires, goes 'funny', quicker than skim milk in southern heat.

But I don't know that that quality makes it bad, a Stephen King book or the like. It just hasn't 'antiqued' enough to turn quaint. Or comfortingly nostalgic. But when you're seventy, eighty, and the kids these days don't remember what was a Tower Records, a cassette mixtape, a VCR, pumping 'gas' into your car, well I'm pretty sure these brightly colored logos will still be vivid in your head, be like finding a working cigarette vending machine with pull knobs at an abandoned gas station, somewhere between Nevada and Mexico and you took a wrong turn.

Pretty sure I recall even Gatsby had a moment or two of what was then current, now sepia tone. And if at the nursing home on movie night someone plays The Breakfast Club, pretty sure more than a few aged snobs will feel a cresting swell of nostalgia, leaves you seasick with longing or deja vu.

Stephen King just hasn't yet passed, become a touchstone figure of a time and place. Not every work of every author survives as a classic. But there are a few stories of Stephen King that will become or stay important. To me anyway. Most have become movies actually. Kubrick's The Shining, say.

One that will always stand out for me, that I could go back and read at any time sorta illustrates the above point precisely: the novella The Body from the collection Different Seasons, chock full of his childhood logos and fizzy sodas and jingles long gone, became the move 'Stand By Me' with dead River Pheonix. Pretty sure I won't forget that one for quite some long time, and if they play that at movie night, I'll surely wheel my chair to the front row.
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#68 » by barelyawake » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:52 pm

doclinkin wrote:Well that sense of the familiar becomes threatening. It could be you, here, on this page.


Oh, I never doubted that is King's ambition. To me, however, the familiar isn't poetry. Poetry is the art of pressing the familiar between the pages of a newly printed, and still wet, dictionary and producing a Rorschach test. It's not blurting out the obvious, but shaping shadows of the familiar until the reader experiences deja vu.

As I see it, every artist has an internal snob. He acts as the butcher -- grading which synonyms are delectably marbled and which rotten adjectives need cleaving. Without discernment, there is no art. Without some type of ostracizing of phrase, all the authors would devolve into a throng of Cages and Warhols -- celebrating every sneeze, swallow and spoiled can of soup. At that point, art is a carcass and every swarming fly an artist.

Authors need a verbal hierarchy. It's intrinsic to the art form. Crimson is more descriptive than red. When I was writing, my peculiar loupe looked for the blemishes I deemed as ordinary. Each syllable would have to be fit for leather bindings and gold inking as soon as they soaked into the page. In my crooked universe, that meant the phrase "'57 Cadillac" passed historical mustard, while the phrase "tubular" did not. And if I read a work with the latter in it, my breadbasket reflexed as my monocled ego screamed out, "HACKERY!"

But, as I said, I don't unsheathe my blade in the verbal arena against the literary Goliaths -- mainly because I couldn't manage so much as a flesh wound. So, I no longer demand that my words angelically warble. I've moved on to pixels and power chords. But, I still have that stiff-necked abateur in the gut, who sighs whenever having to handle all but the choicest cuts. The guy is a prick.
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#69 » by MJG » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:21 pm

I ordered Slaughterhouse Five and Choke on a whim this past weekend, they should be here today. I think both are well-known enough that I won't really need to post them back as recommendations when I'm finished, but I figured I'd mention just in case.

An actual recommendation: God Doesn't Shoot Craps by Richard Armstrong. It's about a direct marketing grifter (ie, he mails people pamphlets for things like "Real Moon Rocks, Just Send $20", then when they send the money, he just sends rocks he finds outside) whose latest scam involves instructions on how to beat the casino at craps, guaranteed. He goes to test the fake system, as he always does just to verify the results and whatnot, he finds that it's actually winning, and winning big. The mad scramble then begins, with the guy doing everything in his power to score big off his new found trickery as fast as he can, all the while avoiding his colleagues, the government, the casinos, and the mob, all of which want to stop him and/or get their piece of the action. It's actually been a little while since I've read it, maybe three years, but it caught my eye on the bookshelf this morning and I got the itch to go back to it again.
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#70 » by DallasShalDune » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:00 pm

I'm a huge King fan, but only because there are like four or five GREAT stories he wrote. Yeah, there are plenty of not-so-good tales that he made Big Mac style. Desperation. The Dead Zone. Insomnia (at least in my humble opinion, but a lot of King fanatics love this story for its Dark Tower references). But to me, the Shining is great. I love that book, and have read it three times. It is King's characterization at its best, in the crafting of Jack Torrence. The Dark Tower was also immensely entertaining. It had great characterization and an extremely underrated ending that I found awesome in its ambiguous hope (or is it hope?). I read the Green Mile and found it poetic and humbling in its philosophy. He has his gems, though yes, sometimes you have to dig to find them. He is a good writer, who's impact surpasses the Michael Crichtons and Nora Noberts and John Grishams and Tom Clancys. If there truly is a hierarchy, that involves all TS Eliot-esque canonical and non-canonical writers, he'd be above JK Rowling and most definitely above Stephanie Meyer. I know this doesn't make King better to compare him to lesser writers, but it does illustrate I think the lasting power he will hold over all of these mentioned wordsmiths. King has a National Book award for American Letters. He is aware of his predecessors like Robert Browning and TS Eliot, and uses their craft to morph his own, just as Eliot thought writers should. He became a part of "the conversation" of literature, or at least chimed in his tiny voice once-in-awhile, with his better novels.

And yes, King has a good grasp of how to scare the you-know-what out of people. He is no master of horror like Poe, or even Burgess (because A Clockwork Orange is friggin' scary).

I will be buying Under the Dome, which comes out in November I think. I'm pretty excited for it, actually.
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#71 » by Mortality Pie » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:44 pm

DallasShalDune wrote:I'm a huge King fan, but only because there are like four or five GREAT stories he wrote. Yeah, there are plenty of not-so-good tales that he made Big Mac style. Desperation. The Dead Zone. Insomnia (at least in my humble opinion, but a lot of King fanatics love this story for its Dark Tower references).
...snipped...
And yes, King has a good grasp of how to scare the you-know-what out of people. He is no master of horror like Poe, or even Burgess (because A Clockwork Orange is friggin' scary).

I will be buying Under the Dome, which comes out in November I think. I'm pretty excited for it, actually.


I'm not what you would call a "King fanatic," but Insomnia was one of my favorites of his, and I never really got into the Dark Tower series. I just found it wonderfully unsettling mainly because of the concepts involved in the plot, like ending all existence and whatnot.

Regarding Anthony Burgess, I have to say that I enjoyed The Wanting Seed nearly as much as A Clockwork Orange
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#72 » by doclinkin » Wed Jul 1, 2009 4:26 am

barelyawake wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Well that sense of the familiar becomes threatening. It could be you, here, on this page.


Oh, I never doubted that is King's ambition. To me, however, the familiar isn't poetry. Poetry is the art of pressing the familiar between the pages of a newly-printed and still-wet dictionary and producing a Rorschach test. It's not blurting out the obvious, but shaping shadows of the familiar until the reader experiences deja vu.


I doubt King considers himself an artist, much. Or aims for poetry. Interesting exercise though, to write the poetry of blurting out the obvious, see if you could make it work. Though come to think of it, wasn't I just talking about Bukowski...?

I guess I go another way about it. Sometimes red is red enough. Charlie Brown would be somewhat less believably wistful if he was talking about that little 'ginger-'haired girl. You'd understand why he might get ostracized and perhaps kicked around a bit. Though maybe I give too much high esteem for good old Charlie Brown, that blockhead.

I once shared a house with 4 'gradual students' in English. Talk about butchers, the majority of conversation about a book, a movie, whatever -- consisted of hacking apart the topic and trying to dissect it in context. Which more often than not consisted of lobbing back and forth jargon and lingo on 'theory' as opposed to, uh, practice. Dunno if any of them could write a lick, I suspect they'd be too paralyzed by that inner critique to risk a word, too easy to judge it against a theoretical shelf of all grand literature. One reason why I love the internet, since the grammar of everyone else is in the mean miserable, I can liberate myself from caring about the tyranny of self-critique, a typo is often left in place like an ataxis, a deliberate flaw that allows the beholder to fix it, to participate, to allow themself an amused disdain that they are you know, smarter than me. It's a courtesy, a generosity.

Or that's my excuse anyway.

Okay (sneaking a poem into the prose thread (though why the hell not) here's a Bukowski riff, poetry of the obvious:

From The Last Night of the Earth Poems, wherein Charles Bukowski wrote:"Are you drinking"

washed-up, on shore, the old yellow notebook
out again
I write from the bed
as I did last
year.
will see the doctor,
Monday.
"yes, doctor, weak legs, vertigo, head-
aches and my back
hurts."
"are you drinking?" he will ask.
"are you getting your
exercise, your
vitamins?"
I think that I am just ill
with life, the same stale yet
fluctuating
factors.
even at the track
I watch the horses run by
and it seems
meaningless.
I leave early after buying tickets on the
remaining races.
"taking off?" asks the motel
clerk.
"yes, it's boring,"
I tell him.
"If you think it's boring
out there," he tells me, "you oughta be
back here."
so here I am
propped up against my pillows
again
just an old guy
just an old writer
with a yellow
notebook.
something is
walking across the
floor
toward
me.
oh, it's just
my cat
this
time.
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#73 » by doclinkin » Wed Jul 1, 2009 6:02 am

Mortality Pie wrote:I'm a sucker for apocalyptic fiction. Some good ones that I've read recently:

Noir - Olivier Pauvert
Hater - David Moody
The Possibility of an Island - Michel Houllebecq



A similar sucker here. 28 Days Later is one of my favorite flicks (ditto Shaun of the Dead; Mad Max, The Road Warrior, etc). I will pick up 'Hater', now. And reviews of that one lead me also to a zombie apocalypse book 'The Rising' by Brian Keene. In my queue, now.

If you're not immune to Graphic Novels or zombies, the wifeydoc and I liked pretty well the first 6 or so volumes of The Walking Dead by Robert Kirkman (in trade paperbacks). It starts to become a bit Soap Opera + Zombies, then dips into brutally gratuitous gore (as opposed to selective and interesting gore) but the early story arc is solid. Plausible post-horror survival journal, regathering what civilization can be built from the smoldering scraps of the newly dead modern era.

In the zombie apocalypse sub-genre, World War Z was pretty good. Not a novel, a series of interviews of survivors, like a People's History of the Zombie War (or the like) or a post-zombie Studs Terkel book.

But yeah, as a kid I loved stories like Harlan Ellison's A Boy and His Dog.
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#74 » by barelyawake » Wed Jul 1, 2009 1:00 pm

Hmmm I wouldn't call that Bukowski poem obvious. It's certainly stream of consciousness, which you could say is unguarded. But, I would say that piece is mostly shadow and reveals very little. The descriptions and adjectives are vague at best, forcing the reader to draw on his/her own experiences to fill-out the images -- much like an inkblot. To the point, that piece is as timely now as when it was penned. There's nary a brand name that might establish an era. There's not even any nomenclature that could date or lend providence to the doctor. He could be Doctor Drew, Dr. Dre, Doc Oc or the Witch Doctor (ooh eeh ooh ahah, tingtang wallawallabingbang). It's a brilliant piece. You could put it in amber and publish it in 2030 as if from a virgin artist.

As an aside, the "too paralyzed by that inner critique" bit is more familiar to me than a King novel. And just so you know, I dig King movies. "Pet Cemetery" and "The Shining" are epic works. Of course, I don't have as much of an inner-critic when it comes to flicks. Orson Wells, no matter how massive, never reached Plato's proportions. As I said, I love King's concepts. I just don't enjoy his prose, mainly because it could in no way be confused with poetry -- while most of the prose I respect certainly could. Read "Gatsby" and focus on the part where the drapes in Gatsby's mansion are described. It's too early in the morn for me to characterize it as anything other than a masterful use of adjectives.

Dallas, of course I heart Poe and Burgess. Burgess endures, in part, because he created his own slang which is vacuum-packed and age resistant. Genius. But, I would say the king of dark, timeless fiction is Kafka.

And I'll repeat, for around the fifth time on this message board, "No Exit" by Sartre is perhaps the greatest piece of fiction in history IMO. Every word will forever be undying (pun intended) and sublime. I've seen it and "Our Town" performed over ten times apiece. Whenever I see a newspaper ad for either, I'm seduced into the theater eager to see how a new troop will re-birth the words. They are always fascinatingly unique. The last time I saw "No Exit," the lead was smoking throughout the play. By the end, the ashtray was filled with a two-foot-high tower of butts. Read the play and you'll get why that's funny.
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#75 » by W. Unseld » Wed Jul 1, 2009 8:10 pm

A second plug, if you like the apocolyptic get this one particular (out of 10,000) 2012 book by Daniel Pinchbeck. It's not really fiction but I would say it contains fictional elements with a very straight forward, honest, humble writing style.
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#76 » by Wizardspride » Wed Jul 1, 2009 8:36 pm

Gideon's Spies: The Secret History of the Mossad by Gordon Thomas.
President Trump told two senior Russian officials in a 2017 Oval Office meeting that he was unconcerned about Moscow’s interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election because the United States did the same in other countries
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#77 » by He Hate Me » Thu Jul 2, 2009 12:47 pm

You should really listen to this recommendation I'm making for you. Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell is superb. It has everything you could want from an author, is challenging at times, and encompasses themes that you seem to enjoy.
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#78 » by barelyawake » Thu Jul 2, 2009 1:42 pm

Who me? Or Doc? If me, then sure I'll give it a whirl. The title sounds familiar.
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#79 » by He Hate Me » Thu Jul 2, 2009 8:08 pm

Yeah you, and you... and You
I'm just trying to get into heaven, it's not like I'm gonna run for Jesus.
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Re: Book Thread. I have nothing good to read. 

Post#80 » by daSwami » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:00 pm

Reading "Columbine" now. It's excellent.

http://www.amazon.com/Columbine-Dave-Cu ... 0446546933
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