Flip Saunders Appreciation Thread

[nate33]

Last year, the team's defensive rating was 29th.

This year, Flip managed to improve the defense to 18th, despite having defensive seives like Jamison, Foye and Arenas early in the year, and the loss Haywood late in the year. I would like to know our defensive rating post-trade. My guess is that it's even better.

We had better defense than any of the sub-.500 in the league except Indiana. I think Flip is building a foundation for success. If we add some talent to this ballclub in the offseason to help the offense, we should do pretty well going forward.

[queridiculo]

It's possible that I'm in the minority here, but I think Saunders did a bang up job this year.

He didn't pamper his star players and when he realized that the team wasn't going to go anywhere he didn't let his ego get in the way of a reboot.

I commend him for sticking to his guns and not giving into the pressure of writing the young cats on this team a blank check and I'm particularly impressed by the fact that he wasn't afraid to abandon some of his concepts to put the players in a better position to compete.

Since the trade the team has played with more energy, purpose and fight and despite a 16 game losing streak he kept the team from unraveling.

[JonathanJoseph]

I think Flip showed at the end of the season that he is a heckuva coach and we are lucky to have him. In the last 10 games, the Wiz went 5-5 and had 2 complete meltdowns vs Houston and NYK. In both of those games the Wiz were in control for the bulk of the game and at times looked like the much better team. All that with a handful of castaways and defensive specialists playing key roles. The meltdowns are understandable given the circumstances, but the Wiz were thisclose to being 7-3 over the past 10.

The Flip/Shaun Livingston marriage looks like it was made in heaven and I hope, hope, hope as a Wizards fan that it continues.

[Pradamaster]

I definitely think Flip made some mistakes at the beginning of the year and didn't do as well as he could have to get the most out of the roster we had then, but he did an excellent job at the end of the year. It's also worth noting that Dray, Nick and JaVale are much further along now than they were at the end of last season. Flip deserves a lot of credit for that.

[closg00]

I am happy that the defense improved. I am disappointed that it took trades and injuries to get Flip to play the youngs.

[verbal8]

I think Flips coaching has improved as the season has gone along. I think originally he had in his mind to install his system with a vet team and get to the play-offs. However the team did not fit together well and did not work well with his system. He was probably a little too stubborn in sticking with that approach, however once the team was dismantled he did a good job in a less than ideal situation.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I am happy that the defense improved. I am disappointed that it took trades and injuries to get Flip to play the youngs.

While the defense improved from that of the 19-93 team, the offense was slightly worse.

My thoughts echo your last comment. It took the trade and injuries to get Flip to play the young guys. I believe they wouldn't have had to make the trades if Flip coached well to begin with. Young at SG, Jamison at SF, Blatche at PF and Butler off the bench should have been tried.

Flip chose to stick with Stevenson. He couldn't see that Butler/Jamison were getting killed defensively, and they were ball stoppers who shot too much. Flip demotivated by putting guys in the doghouse and by using the media to criticize or create drama.

I appreciate the last 10 games, but come on. This team should have been much better.

Flip had a nice 10 game run but IMO he was every bit as bad a coach this season as Eddie Jordan ever was.

[likwitdesi]

Flip did a very solid job this year. Although they may still not be the best defensive team out there, Flip has finally built a foundation for it this season. He has done a nice job with developing Blatche, McGee, and Young. Blatche = obvious.

I like how over the course of the season McGee went from always taking those 18 footers to becoming more aggressive in driving to the rim. Now, the next step is to teach the guy defense.

Nick also made improvements as well. Part of the reason he did so well at the end of the season was he got hot. However, even if he were cold, he was doing a better job of playing within an offense than he had done in the past. His rebounding and assist numbers are still pitiful, but at least he doesn't turn the ball over much either. He might still have 6th man potential.

If Ernie is still around, I want to see him get Flip his type of player in the draft if he can, whether it be a Wes Johnson or a Paul George or a Jan Vesely. I just don't want to see Ernie screwing him over by taking someone like Aminu who doesn't fit his system.

[hands11]

No doubt he had the pieces to do better to begin the season. Amazing that between EJ and Flip neither ever started Haywood and Dray together. Hey, I get it. AJ got points and rebounds but he was undersized at PF.

All we ever needed to do was shift the chairs one row.

Haywood, Dray, AJ, CB, Gil with Gil playing as a PG to start and a closer to close.

It would have been a tougher move having AJ or CB off the bench. Not something you want to do to stars when your in your first year with a team that had to few professional players. He needed AJ and CB happy and on his side. So while it objectively may be a good move, I can easily see why he didn't do it just after getting here. First, he needed to see what Gil, CB, AJ and Haywood could do together. That was thing everyone had been waiting to see again. But staring Dray, that would have been easy.

I don't blame Flip for not being one of CB or AJ off the bench so soon.

But Haywood, Dray, AJ, CB, Gil .. That looks a lot like what Dallas has lined up and it works for them.

But it didn't happen... Turn the page.... Bring on the TED

One thing I did like about Flip is that he did seem to adapt a lot faster than EFJ. Now, they may not be saying much but it was true. And his rotations were better. I don't remember screaming at the TV like I did when EFJ was here. He also worked the refs a lot more than EFJ. And he was use that TO and use it early if they were not playing well.

[fishercob]

No doubt he had the pieces to do better to begin the season. Amazing that between EJ and Flip neither ever started Haywood and Dray together. Hey, I get it. AJ got points and rebounds but he was undersized at PF.

All we ever needed to do was shift the chairs one row.

Haywood, Dray, AJ, CB, Gil with Gil playing as a PG to start and a closer to close.

It would have been a tougher move having AJ or CB off the bench. Not something you want to do to stars when your in your first year with a team that had to few professional players. He needed AJ and CB happy and on his side. So while it objectively may be a good move, I can easily see why he didn't do it just after getting here. First, he needed to see what Gil, CB, AJ and Haywood could do together. That was thing everyone had been waiting to see again. But staring Dray, that would have been easy.

I don't blame Flip for not being one of CB or AJ off the bench so soon.

But Haywood, Dray, AJ, CB, Gil .. That looks a lot like what Dallas has lined up and it works for them.

But it didn't happen... Turn the page.... Bring on the TED

One thing I did like about Flip is that he did seem to adapt a lot faster than EFJ. Now, they may not be saying much but it was true. And his rotations were better. I don't remember screaming at the TV like I did when EFJ was here. He also worked the refs a lot more than EFJ. And he was use that TO and use it early if they were not playing well.

There's a reason Jeffries and Stevenson worked with our other starters for a time -- usage rate. Dray wouldn't have fit in with those other guys because there's only one ball. This year alone, BH + AB + AJ + CB + GA adds up to a usage rate of 117% percent.

With the benefit of hindsight, the right move would have been to trade Jamison and/or Butler last year or last summer and used the pick instead of trading it for Passy McPassalot and Shooty McMissalot.


But it didn't happen... Turn the page.... Bring on the TED

[Liverbird]

Flip did a very solid job this year. Although they may still not be the best defensive team out there, Flip has finally built a foundation for it this season. He has done a nice job with developing Blatche, McGee, and Young. Blatche = obvious.

I like how over the course of the season McGee went from always taking those 18 footers to becoming more aggressive in driving to the rim. Now, the next step is to teach the guy defense.

Nick also made improvements as well. Part of the reason he did so well at the end of the season was he got hot. However, even if he were cold, he was doing a better job of playing within an offense than he had done in the past. His rebounding and assist numbers are still pitiful, but at least he doesn't turn the ball over much either. He might still have 6th man potential.

If Ernie is still around, I want to see him get Flip his type of player in the draft if he can, whether it be a Wes Johnson or a Paul George or a Jan Vesely. I just don't want to see Ernie screwing him over by taking someone like Aminu who doesn't fit his system.

I attribute this primarily to Shawn Livingston - Flip does deserve credit for modifying the offense but playing with a true PG rather than 2 pseudo PGs in Foye and Boykins enabled NY to play naturally and in the flow of the game. Something very difficult to do when your PGs are unpredictable.

[verbal8]

There's a reason Jeffries and Stevenson worked with our other starters for a time -- usage rate. Dray wouldn't have fit in with those other guys because there's only one ball. This year alone, BH + AB + AJ + CB + GA adds up to a usage rate of 117% percent.

Based on hindsight I think the line-up would have been BH + AB + AJ + MM + GA. They probably still have a usage rate over 100%, but Arenas and Blatche did not play together much this season. I think with both of them on the court and 2 other competent scorers(Miller and Jamison), you would see lower usage rates. If AJ is getting burned on defense, Butler could replace him.

With the benefit of hindsight, the right move would have been to trade Jamison and/or Butler last year or last summer and used the pick instead of trading it for Passy McPassalot and Shooty McMissalot.

Again using hindsight, I think the best "win-now" move would have been the Amare deal, even if it did mean giving up Butler and Jamison. They probably could have gotten QRich for Etan's expiring contract.
Not a contender, but it would have been a play-off team and a lot more fun than the debacle this season.

[miller31time]

Guys, the defense didn't just get better. It got a lot better.

After getting rid of Jamison and Butler (and even Haywood, though there isn't much causation with him), we were playing defense at a top-10 level (that's what it would take to go from around 25th pre-trade to 18th at the end of the season).

If we can go into next year with a good draft pick, a healthy and motivated Gilbert and maybe a nice free agent (though I understand the reservation by many on this board surrounding signing an Amare or Joe Johnson, even to a non-max contract), we'll be a pretty good team. Flip clearly understands the importance of defense to a winning ball-club. And after his tweaking of the offense recently, it appears he has a very solid grasp of how to implement an offense that works for his personnel.

[hands11]

Well the Flip evaluation seems to be pretty balanced lately one of his lowlights was him talking about the team pissing down their legs and twice comparing Dray with KG.

I would be happy if I never heard Flip mention KG when talking about the Wizards.

What a classless move throwing the elbow at someone who never saw it coming. They should have suspended him for more than one game for that.

[LyricalRico]

Guys, the defense didn't just get better. It got a lot better.

After getting rid of Jamison and Butler (and even Haywood, though there isn't much causation with him), we were playing defense at a top-10 level (that's what it would take to go from around 25th pre-trade to 18th at the end of the season).

I wasn't aware that the defensive improvement what that big. Add in the improved offense he was able to run with Livingston and I take back what I said a couple pages back about Flip not being the right guy for this rebuilding team. I'm still not a fan of his media outbursts but hopefully he and Blatche can patch things up over the summer.

Yet another reason to be excited for next season!

[miller31time]

Guys, the defense didn't just get better. It got a lot better.

After getting rid of Jamison and Butler (and even Haywood, though there isn't much causation with him), we were playing defense at a top-10 level (that's what it would take to go from around 25th pre-trade to 18th at the end of the season).

I wasn't aware that the defensive improvement what that big. Add in the improved offense he was able to run with Livingston and I take back what I said a couple pages back about Flip not being the right guy for this rebuilding team. I'm still not a fan of his media outbursts but hopefully he and Blatche can patch things up over the summer.

Yet another reason to be excited for next season!

I was caught off-guard when I saw the stat as well. Mainly because it's almost insane to expect that much of an increase in defense when the pillar of our defensive system (Haywood) was traded away with no one to effectively replace him.

Next season should be interesting. If we don't land a center in the draft or sign one in free agency, we're starting McGee and probably playing him career-high minutes (25-30 per game). I have a hard time seeing us as being even average with such a poor defender getting that many minutes at such a critical defensive position (center). But there's always the hope he *gulp* improves in the off-season.

[go'stags]

Well it's not like we were starting a great defender after the trade-just Oberto, who, while a very smart defender, has his limitations. If we don't acquire another Center this off-season, I actually wouldn't mind re-signing him. As long as McGee gets 25 or so minutes, I wouldn't mind Oberto being back. He can show by example all the little tricks that allow him to stay in the league to all the youngins. Someone like Demarcus Cousins could learn a whole lot from Oberto it seems.

[verbal8]

Well it's not like we were starting a great defender after the trade-just Oberto, who, while a very smart defender, has his limitations. If we don't acquire another Center this off-season, I actually wouldn't mind re-signing him. As long as McGee gets 25 or so minutes, I wouldn't mind Oberto being back.

I could see Oberto being back at the vet minimum. However not acquiring another Center would be foolish. Given that McGee seems to be most effective if used 15-20 minutes a night, the Wizards need to find their starting Center of the future.

He can show by example all the little tricks that allow him to stay in the league to all the youngins. Someone like Demarcus Cousins could learn a whole lot from Oberto it seems.

If Cousins or Favors(depending on measurements) is the Wizards top pick, I think they need to also acquire a true center. Cousins probably is an NBA Center, but he may be a better PF. Having a true center on the roster allows them to determine that.

[Hoopalotta]

I could see Oberto being back at the vet minimum. However not acquiring another Center would be foolish. Given that McGee seems to be most effective if used 15-20 minutes a night, the Wizards need to find their starting Center of the future.

I don't think it was that McGee needed a minute cap of 15-20 , but rather that he was best when he could get going without having to fixate on being a foil for the opposing starter. That just gets him all out of his game and plays to his weaknesses. The limits on his minutes in the last ten games or so had a lot to do with foul trouble.

Also, we'll have to see what all happens with the conditioning/asthma issues, but I think McGee showed plenty of potential for a big role.

If Cousins or Favors(depending on measurements) is the Wizards top pick, I think they need to also acquire a true center. Cousins probably is an NBA Center, but he may be a better PF. Having a true center on the roster allows them to determine that.

I guess you are implying that we'd be trading McGee as there's no real way we can plug Cousins, Blatche, McGee and 'True Center-X' into the rotation.

My concern with Cousins is that he's a scoring big who'll be posting up right in between Blatche and the basket. It's not the end of the world, but even if Blatche is working from the perimeter, I like that he can put it on the floor and get to the rim. If Cousins is camped out on the left block for 30 minutes a game, that might not be there as much. Ultimately, Cousins talent trumps that, but it's worth mentioning.

Aside from that though, I think Cousins, Blatche and McGee is loads of beef up front and I'd look to spend money elsewhere.

[verbal8]

I guess you are implying that we'd be trading McGee as there's no real way we can plug Cousins, Blatche, McGee and 'True Center-X' into the rotation.

Ideally true Center X is not in heavily in the rotation and Cousins is starting C. However if Cousins works best as PF I think you need to have someone besides Blatche and McGee.

Aside from that though, I think Cousins, Blatche and McGee is loads of beef up front and I'd look to spend money elsewhere.

I don't see the need to spend a ton of money on this roster spot. This potentially could be filled with a BOYD candidate.