Official Trade Thread IX (Visitors Post Trades HERE!)

[fishercob]

Rico, I find that your proposals that end with the self-applause icon are generally your worst. Step away from the keyboard, buddy.

[LyricalRico]

Rico, I find that your proposals that end with the self-applause icon are generally your worst.

[Bigswinrings]

From the Daily Dime on ESPN, scout on the Washington Wizards,

"They're going to have to make a trade. I know they've played better since [Antawn] Jamison came back, but they just have too many personalities going in different directions. Their main three guys have been together for a long time and it hasn't really worked. When are they going to [admit] that it doesn't work? Gil and Caron [Butler], Gil and [Brendan] Haywood, [Andray] Blatche. [Nick] Young, DeShawn [Stevenson] … there's a lot going on there for Flip [Saunders] to try to pull that all together.

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page ... scouts-say

New to the boards, hope we do make a move, although unlikely, by the deadline. We need to shuffle things around and try to either get some offensive force in the paint at the 4/5 or a defensive swingman at the 2. Maybe Bell if this wrist surgery doesn't set him back too far.

[LyricalRico]

The Clippers need backcourt help in the worst way. With Griffin coming back (and Craig Smith backing him up), and Kaman+Jordan entrenched at center, Camby could be traded.

What about Foye+Stevenson for Camby?

Why stop there? Let's flip Camby!

Wizards trade: Jamison, Stevenson, Foye, and McGuire
Wizards receive: Battier, Haslem, Andersen, Hayes, and Jones

Clippers trade: Camby
Clippers receive: Foye and Stevenson

Rockets trade: Battier, Andersen, and Hayes
Rockets receive: Jamison

Heat trade: Haslem and Jones
Heat receive: Camby and McGuire

Haywood/Mcgee/Oberto
Blatche/Haslem/Andersen/Hayes
Butler/Miller/Jones
Battier/Young
Arenas/Boykins/Critt

A bit crowded at SF/SG but that's a decent hedge against Miller leaving. Doesn't really do anything for our cap but greatly improves our defense.

[dnk]

From the Daily Dime on ESPN, scout on the Washington Wizards,

"They're going to have to make a trade. I know they've played better since [Antawn] Jamison came back, but they just have too many personalities going in different directions. Their main three guys have been together for a long time and it hasn't really worked. When are they going to [admit] that it doesn't work? Gil and Caron [Butler], Gil and [Brendan] Haywood, [Andray] Blatche. [Nick] Young, DeShawn [Stevenson] … there's a lot going on there for Flip [Saunders] to try to pull that all together.

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page ... scouts-say

New to the boards, hope we do make a move, although unlikely, by the deadline. We need to shuffle things around and try to either get some offensive force in the paint at the 4/5 or a defensive swingman at the 2. Maybe Bell if this wrist surgery doesn't set him back too far.

I think we do end up moving Butler for a better fit this deadline. Hopefully a nice defensive 3. Wallace has been thrown around on these boards and I'd be fine with that. I need to look at Batum more, but him + expirings doesn't sound terrible.

I'm fine with PG. I have a lot of faith in Gil. Boykins is a decent backup for this season, maybe we use our first rounder next year for his replacement as a change of pace, defensively sound PG, maybe one we can even eventually use in the fourth alongside Gil like Earl does now. Although it is interesting that right now Gil operates in the opposite way that superstars do (Kobe/LeBron/Wade generally play off the ball the first 3 1/2 quarters and then in crunch time start initiating the offense to attack more; Gil the opposite (for now)).

I think SG is in decent hands with Young and Miller. Young's improved (and hopefully still improving) defense, catch and shoot ability, and ability to tire out opposing 2's by running around on screens are all great assets and fit with the starters. Miller is a fantastic glue guy and does everything very well (except maybe defense).

I think SF is where we might need help. Miller and Dom might be good enough, as offensive and defensive role players respectively, and Jamison has shown an ability to play there against select opponents, especially with two seven-footers backing him up. But if we're trading Butler, we might be able to get a real nice piece.

At PF, I'm still undecided on whether or not to trade Jamison. I've been a pretty firm believer that we'll never get far with him and his defense at PF, but he's played so well. But his contract might become an albatross, and we do have Blatche, who I'm convinced could start now and perform admirably. If we do end up trading Jamison for just cap relief (like in Nate's go-to Z + 1st trade), I bet a solid undersized brute PF can be found in the 2nd (or with that Cleveland 1st) to backup Blatche.

At C, provided we resign Haywood (which if we're not blowing up and rebuilding is absolutely essential), I think we're set for the next 10-15 years. Haywood for the next five or so, McGee for the rest. I'm still not completely convinced McGee will ever completely pull it together and be the superstar some think he will, but he's got a lot of great tools and skills.

[DaRealHibachi]

I dunno about trading Jamison... We missed his scoring when he wasn't playing, and unless Gil gets his shooting touch back, I disagree with trading our best scorer... When AJ's gone, who will take over his scoring...??? Not Gil (for now atleast), nor Blatche, CB, Young or anyone else...

I rather have AJ play the 3, where his D could be masked easier, as nobody will be able to post up against him b/c of his size or shoot over him b/c of his length... His speed on D will be a problem, but with guys like Blatche and Haywood backing him up, I can live with him at the 3... And this is without taking in consideration how he would absolutely demolish SF's on offense...

If anything, CB is the one we should be trading... With AJ, Miller and McGuire we're stacked at the 3 with scorers, rebounders and passers... At the 2 we have Young, Miller and Foye... We can trade CB for a PF and a pass first PG... Don't know who they might be though...

[Ruzious]

I'm on board with trading CBut, but I don't agree with getting a 3 that needs significant PT in a Butler trade. That's Miller's best position, and I think Jamison's position should be 3rd forward - still playing 30 minutes a game - evenly distributed between the 3 and 4. And I want Dom to still be in the mix. That doesn't leave time for another 3 who expects to play much. I'd much rather improve the backcourt.

[Det the Threat]

The Clippers need backcourt help in the worst way. With Griffin coming back (and Craig Smith backing him up), and Kaman+Jordan entrenched at center, Camby could be traded.

What about Foye+Stevenson for Camby?

If the Clips are not going to trade Camby, then what about Foye+Stevenson for Ricky Davis+Rasual Butler?

The Clippers won't trade Camby for some back ups at the guard positions.
We sure wouldn't mind a back up for Gordon at the 2 guard, but still have the biggest hole at the sf position.

We'd even take Stevenson off your hands, if it nets us Butler as well, while we send out Camby, filler, pick.

Though, with those news on Griffin(not back before January, if at all), i doubt we'll trade Camby, as long as we don't go on a losing streak and give up on the season. Even then, we wouldn't just give Camby away for a Foye/Stevenson package.

[LyricalRico]

I'm on board with trading CBut, but I don't agree with getting a 3 that needs significant PT in a Butler trade. That's Miller's best position, and I think Jamison's position should be 3rd forward - still playing 30 minutes a game - evenly distributed between the 3 and 4. And I want Dom to still be in the mix. That doesn't leave time for another 3 who expects to play much. I'd much rather improve the backcourt.

Well, assuming we keep Haywood and Young doesn't regress, that just leaves Butler-for-PG scenarios because both forward spots would be covered and Young/Arenas are looking like they can handle the SG spot under Flip. Foye was supposed to be that guy but he's not.

So the deal would shape up as Butler+Stevenson+Foye for [insert PG and exprings/picks]...what ideas do we have for something like that?

[mhd]

I'm on board with trading CBut, but I don't agree with getting a 3 that needs significant PT in a Butler trade. That's Miller's best position, and I think Jamison's position should be 3rd forward - still playing 30 minutes a game - evenly distributed between the 3 and 4. And I want Dom to still be in the mix. That doesn't leave time for another 3 who expects to play much. I'd much rather improve the backcourt.

Well, assuming we keep Haywood and Young doesn't regress, that just leaves Butler-for-PG scenarios because both forward spots would be covered and Young/Arenas are looking like they can handle the SG spot under Flip. Foye was supposed to be that guy but he's not.

So the deal would shape up as Butler+Stevenson+Foye for [insert PG and exprings/picks]...what ideas do we have for something like that?

WHAT ABOUT THIS!

Wiz trade:
1) Butler
2) Foye
3) Stevenson
for:
1) Camby (expiring)
2) Conley
3) Ricky Davis (expiring)

Clips trade:
1) Camby
2) Davis
3) Al Thorton
for:
1) Caron Butler
2) Marko Jaric

Memphis trades:
1) Jaric
2) Conley
for:
1) Stevenson
2) Foye
3) Thorton

NEW LINEUPS:
Wizards:
PG: Arenas/Conley/Boykins
SG: Young/Miller
SF: Miller/Jamison/McGuire
PF: Jamison/Blatche
C: Haywood/Camby/McGee

Clippers:
PG: Davis/Telfair
SG: Gordon/Jaric
SF: Butler/Butler
PF: Griffin/Smith
C: Kaman/Jordan

Memphis:
PG: Mayo/Foye
SG: Foye/Stevenson
SF: Gay/Thorton
PF: Randolph/Arthur
C: Gasol/Thabeet

[dnk]

Wiz trade:
1) Butler
2) Foye
3) Stevenson
for:
1) Camby (expiring)
2) Conley
3) Ricky Davis (expiring)

Really interesting. I'd do it for sure. Do the other teams?

And if I had my way, I'd probably not even play Camby, giving McGee whatever backup minutes there are at C just to keep him working.

And I'd be a little sad for Earl.

[LyricalRico]

Wiz trade:
1) Butler
2) Foye
3) Stevenson
for:
1) Camby (expiring)
2) Conley
3) Ricky Davis (expiring)

Really interesting. I'd do it for sure. Do the other teams?

And if I had my way, I'd probably not even play Camby, giving McGee whatever backup minutes there are at C just to keep him working.

And I'd be a little sad for Earl.

Agreed. Camby isn't needed here and would simply create problems with minutes at C. And Boykins is the one who's willing us to wins of late, so bringing in a guy to replace him seems counter-productive.

But that deal would fit the criteria of adding a young, true PG and clearing salary.

[LyricalRico]

Heck, if Boykins keeps playing like this (and there's no reason to think he won't) I'd rather just re-sign him over the summer instead of trading for a PG. Then deal Butler for a pick. Maybe Butler+Foye+Stevenson to NJ for Simmons+Battie+first (probably with some protection)?

That allows us to resign Haywood, Miller, Boykins, and McGuire while still avoiding the tax.

Haywood/McGee
Jamison/Blatche
Miller/Jamison
Young/Arenas
Arenas/Boykins

Deep bench - McGuire, 2010 first (probably a guard), cheap FAs

[Hoopalotta]

No, I think we need a point guard that we can lean on for 28 minutes every night. Earl's been great, but lil' squirrel's been climbing yon tree for many moons.

I don't think there's any way NJ takes on salary for expirings and gives us a pick almost guaranteed to be no later than 5th either. Though, I of course wish otherwise.

[hands11]

I dunno about trading Jamison... We missed his scoring when he wasn't playing, and unless Gil gets his shooting touch back, I disagree with trading our best scorer... When AJ's gone, who will take over his scoring...??? Not Gil (for now atleast), nor Blatche, CB, Young or anyone else...

I rather have AJ play the 3, where his D could be masked easier, as nobody will be able to post up against him b/c of his size or shoot over him b/c of his length... His speed on D will be a problem, but with guys like Blatche and Haywood backing him up, I can live with him at the 3... And this is without taking in consideration how he would absolutely demolish SF's on offense...

If anything, CB is the one we should be trading... With AJ, Miller and McGuire we're stacked at the 3 with scorers, rebounders and passers... At the 2 we have Young, Miller and Foye... We can trade CB for a PF and a pass first PG... Don't know who they might be though...

The only sad thing to me to wondering where we may be today if we made a move like this several years ago. Back then I would have said move AJ since he was on the books for like 18M. But if you were to do it today, yeah, moving CB makes more sense.

I always believe Dray would make it given a chance. I know he did better this offseason but I believe he would have gotten there soon with more PT. But thats just MO

[hands11]

Heck, if Boykins keeps playing like this (and there's no reason to think he won't) I'd rather just re-sign him over the summer instead of trading for a PG. Then deal Butler for a pick. Maybe Butler+Foye+Stevenson to NJ for Simmons+Battie+first (probably with some protection)?

That allows us to resign Haywood, Miller, Boykins, and McGuire while still avoiding the tax.

Haywood/McGee
Jamison/Blatche
Miller/Jamison
Young/Arenas
Arenas/Boykins

Deep bench - McGuire, 2010 first (probably a guard), cheap FAs

Im confused. Didnt you just outline a trade that brought us Simmons and Battie ?

[dnk]

Heck, if Boykins keeps playing like this (and there's no reason to think he won't) I'd rather just re-sign him over the summer instead of trading for a PG. Then deal Butler for a pick. Maybe Butler+Foye+Stevenson to NJ for Simmons+Battie+first (probably with some protection)?

That allows us to resign Haywood, Miller, Boykins, and McGuire while still avoiding the tax.

Haywood/McGee
Jamison/Blatche
Miller/Jamison
Young/Arenas
Arenas/Boykins

Deep bench - McGuire, 2010 first (probably a guard), cheap FAs

Im confused. Didnt you just outline a trade that brought us Simmons and Battie ?

They're expirings (pretty big ones) and it was ostensibly Rico's decision to trade for them for that reason.

Depending on how high it's protected, we might not get that pick for like two years. I'd like to think Butler and Foye are worth more than PURE salary dumps.

EDITED TO ADD: Even though I actually do think trading Butler would be addition by subtraction due to the way he absolutely kills offensive possessions, I hope EG can get a little more value than that trade. Miller rebounds just as well and Hoopalotta pointed out how even his stellar opponent PER doesn't tell the whole story.

But I've definitely and absolutely come around. Butler needs to go. I love the guy and I'm sure he'll do extremely well somewhere else, but he isn't working here.

[Hoopalotta]

Supposing that that the team shows some good things when Miller comes back and we don't want to blow it up, but we do want to get a touch of young talent, a chemistry switch and we also want to get under the luxury tax next year.....

I really think that the Batum-Butler swap makes sense with Andre Miller as I had mentioned some pages back. What I had not realized though, is that the last year of Andre's three year deal is not guaranteed, so he's actually only on a two year deal, which is much, much better.

Again, here was the earlier idea...

Something simple like Butler For Miller, Batum and the Portland first rounder. Maybe we give them our second rounder? We'd free up a bit of cap space for next year too, though not much. We could also think about adding Outlaw and Stevenson so as that the salary situation worked better for the Wizards.

As above, except never mind 'think about adding Stevenson/Outlaw', but rather 'absolutely' add them and don't worry as much about the pick (though it's be nice)

But Miller, Young and Arenas is a nice three guard rotation, maybe with a touch of M.Miller backing up the two now and again. I could see A.Miller at 28 minutes in the second and fourth quarters like a more robust version of squirrel and then Young Starting at about 28 minutes, Arenas filling it out and M.Miller in for change after plugging Butler's slot.

If you look at the on-off numbers with A.Miller though, they're pretty good this year despite his poor jump shooting. The main problems are just that the Blazers are adjusting to a lot of things offensively and Roy won't work off the ball willingly. Batum won't play this year really (maybe late), so it fits into Ruzious's play 'Miller, Jamison and McGuire at the small forward' point before. So yeah, more minutes are there for Blatche this year too, though I worry about the defense against scoring forwards until Batum is back.

As to the Blazers, I no longer think there is any way that they include Blake in ta deal, even though he would be cut and resign a month later. He's really 'comfort food' for Roy and, as ridiculous as it sounds, they could fall into a pretty serious funk with him out for a month. They need home cookin' about now. I don't think Pritchard risks the season and Roy's inevitable ticked-off-edness by trading Blake. One might think that they need another point guard, but I would expect a bit of a split between Fernandez and Bayless actually.

Now suppose the luxury tax is about $65 Million or so, we could possibly keep Haywood and M.Miller at declining salaries too....

Code: Select all

   2010/11   2011/12   2012/13   2013/14   2014/15   Total
H-Wood   $10.00   $9.00   $8.00   $7.00   $6.00   $40.00
                  
   2010/11   2011/12   2012/13   2013/14      Total
Miller   $6.00   $5.00   $4.00   $3.00      $18.00

(hmmm, the spacing on the years is a bit suspect, but you get the idea)

I think that's legal under the CBA, though I'm not 100% sure. But anyway, best I can reckon it we would slip under a 2011 $66 Million dollar luxury tax with a team of...

Haywood/ McGee
Jamison/ Blatche (or vice Versa)
Batum/ M. Miller/ Jamison
N. Young/ Arenas/ M. Miller
Arenas/ A. Miller

1st Round draft Pick (Late teens, early 20's)
2nd Round draft pick

That's an 11 man team, so you need another roster spot or two; it's close to the tax, but we'd cut ourselves a break down the road with core vets on declining salaries. We might have to temper them to be a bit less extreme on the 'decline', but well worth it long term as Arenas is inching up into the $20 Million range. Anyway, all that with a savvy, veteran point guard around too. "Can't shoot", yes, there's that angle.

We should go BPA in the draft, but if we happened to draft a point guard, we'd have a prospect at every position too.

Of course we might just slum on the court and Leonis will have to do the team like a flaming paper bag of dog dung on the doorstep....

[eltacoman]

if we get in danger of not making the playoffs by the trade deadline

DeShawn Stevenson
Mike James
Randy Foye
for
Elton Brand

Haywood - McGee - Oberto
Brand - Blatche
Jamison - Miller - McGuire
Caron - Nick
Arenas - Boykins - Javaris

Jamison and Miller could also be a crazy 6th man combo and we could form a nasty even 8 man rotation for Flip to flip out .... if we dont make the playoff or win somthing
...we blow it up like Ted might want to anyways ...sooo why not just go all in and roll the dice

nasty 8 man rotation
Brand
Haywood
Jamison
Gilbert
Caron
Miller
Boykins
Blatche

Nick
McGee
McGuire
Oberto
Javaris


but all in all im happy with the team i have faith that our team will turn the corner soon n cause some rakus East 2 West

[LyricalRico]

Heck, if Boykins keeps playing like this (and there's no reason to think he won't) I'd rather just re-sign him over the summer instead of trading for a PG. Then deal Butler for a pick. Maybe Butler+Foye+Stevenson to NJ for Simmons+Battie+first (probably with some protection)?

That allows us to resign Haywood, Miller, Boykins, and McGuire while still avoiding the tax.

Haywood/McGee
Jamison/Blatche
Miller/Jamison
Young/Arenas
Arenas/Boykins

Deep bench - McGuire, 2010 first (probably a guard), cheap FAs

Im confused. Didnt you just outline a trade that brought us Simmons and Battie ?

Yeah, like dnk said those guys are expiring contracts and wouldn't be retained. That was a projected 2010-2011 lineup. Sorry for not being clear.