Official Trade Thread IX (Visitors Post Trades HERE!)

[Hoopalotta]

I believe Khan described Love as the fourth best player on a championship team (and Jefferson as the second). That sounds about fair, and sort of waffled on whether or not he was 'touchable', before deciding 'no', which of course means 'yes'.

But a young and McGee package would be an upside package that could frustrate the fan base. Imagine watching McGee wobble around like a newborn doe knowing that you just traded a mud dog like Kevin Love. In a few years though, the Rubio to McGee 'oops would be a fan favorite.

I think something could be done with their roster imbalance, but it would have to taste a little sweeter on their end.

[Kanyewest]

KW, I disagree wholeheartedly about backcourt depth.

Minnesota suffered at PG mightily. Foye's not a playmaker and he's an offensive player foremost. If you agree with those assertions, you'd have to say the Wizards don't have a true backup PG. Lowry is a much better defender and playmaker than Foye. I'd consider him an upgrade. I view Foye as an upgrade at SG over DeShawn, Dominic, and even Nick Young. Out of all those guys and Crittenton, I don't see a PG.

The backcourt is crowded with SGs and combo guards that wish they were PGs, plus Mike James. On top of that, Gil's health IMO isn't a given. If he goes down, who steps up?

As far as Landry and Lowry for Blatche and Crittenton, it's certainly debateable. I like it but see why others wouldn't.

Again, we're ALMOST on the same page; I think Lowry is a much better player than Crittenton. Even though its early, Crittenton doesn't do a single thing better than Lowry. However, downgrading the frontcourt to upgrade the backcourt doesn't seem prudent to me.

IMO, Foye as a backup point guard is adequate especially if Arenas is logging 36 mpg. If Arenas goes down with an injury, then the Wizards can always look to make a trade then. You could display equal concern if Haywood misses any time due to injury.

And if the Wizards really want Lowry, all they have to do is a wait a year and give him the extra bucks in free agency. If the Wizards aren't willing to do that, then I don't see the point of trading him for a 1 year rental; when there's a good chance that he would leave via free agency anyways.

[Hoopalotta]

So, suppose Miami were to pull off their Uber moves and land Boozer and Odom. Supposedly Ric Bucher said Odom was likely done in LA (and yes, it seems I am a rumor tramp this summer).

Anyway - and considering the danger of helping a Division rival - would we have a move with them?

At that point they are weakest at: Center, Small forward and Point guard, probably in that order.

Center is not an easy position to fill at all and I don't know what they could get there. They at least have a lot of Power forwards to plug in.

So would Beasley be edged out? He didn't seem to log any minutes at the small forward last year (per 82games). Their big concern would be finding a way to get their talent on the floor.

We could offer Butler, and it would sure be quite something for them to bring back Odom and Butler in the same offseason (John Crotty, come on down!).

anyway, there would be a number of packages available with them.

I was thinking:

Butler
Crittenton

For

Blount
Beasley

Trade ID #: 5197834

Something like that. I don't know if they would go for it, but that is the basic idea that could be tweaked upon. They don't have many junky long term contracts to clean out, so doesn't look like much to take back in that regard. And i don't know how O'Neal could fit into anything either with his huge figure. Not to mention he can play the five more easily than either of Boozer or Odom

It jams up our cap hit this year, but knocks us way down in 2011 so that we could resign our guys and maybe be in the low sixty millions for total payroll. Jamison could start at the four, but back up Miller at the three easily enough. Beasley could come off the bench and log maybe 28 minutes at the four while Blatche backs up Haywood.

So we would be getting younger and cheaper with the ability to replace Jamison more or less.

The concern on the flip side is making Miami into a monster and or seeing Butler in the playoffs, maybe even in a four-five seed scrape in the first round.

[LyricalRico]

Would Minnesota trade Love for McGee + Young? It would really balance out their roster. Young would be a primary scoring option on the wing alongside their pass-first PG's and their defensive-minded SF (Brewer). McGee would allow Jefferson to move to his natural position at PF. It might take a year or two for everyone to gel, but that's the makings of a pretty good lineup. Things could get even better if they trade Rubio's rights for a quality SF.

We'd be left with a very well-balanced front court. We'd have two finesse guys in Jamison and Blatche, and two grunts in Haywood and Love.

Sounds good but if it were going to happen I would think it would have happened in the pre-draft deal.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

KW, I disagree wholeheartedly about backcourt depth.

Minnesota suffered at PG mightily. Foye's not a playmaker and he's an offensive player foremost. If you agree with those assertions, you'd have to say the Wizards don't have a true backup PG. Lowry is a much better defender and playmaker than Foye. I'd consider him an upgrade. I view Foye as an upgrade at SG over DeShawn, Dominic, and even Nick Young. Out of all those guys and Crittenton, I don't see a PG.

The backcourt is crowded with SGs and combo guards that wish they were PGs, plus Mike James. On top of that, Gil's health IMO isn't a given. If he goes down, who steps up?

As far as Landry and Lowry for Blatche and Crittenton, it's certainly debateable. I like it but see why others wouldn't.

Again, we're ALMOST on the same page; I think Lowry is a much better player than Crittenton. Even though its early, Crittenton doesn't do a single thing better than Lowry. However, downgrading the frontcourt to upgrade the backcourt doesn't seem prudent to me.

IMO, Foye as a backup point guard is adequate especially if Arenas is logging 36 mpg. If Arenas goes down with an injury, then the Wizards can always look to make a trade then. You could display equal concern if Haywood misses any time due to injury.

And if the Wizards really want Lowry, all they have to do is a wait a year and give him the extra bucks in free agency. If the Wizards aren't willing to do that, then I don't see the point of trading him for a 1 year rental; when there's a good chance that he would leave via free agency anyways.

Okay, KW, now I see where you're coming from. We both like Lowry.

What I'll infer is you really don't like the idea of Landry for Blatche. With the way McGee looks right now, I feel you on that if it is in fact what you mean by weakening the frontcourt to upgrade the backcourt. Landry certainly can't play C. I think he's better than Andray, but that's a matter of choice. I do concede Andray can play C or PF.

Where I disagree philosophically is with Foye as backup PG and the idea of Gilbert being healthy. I'm just thinking the last two years could be a trend. I'm admittedly very cautious--even pessimistic about Gil's health. I like that his weight is down, but I think the same way folks are talking bout Blair's knees maybe blowing up is how I feel about Gil's knee. Gil''s a PG who pre-injury thrived on having explosive quicks, good hops, and a dynamic offensive game, inside and outside. I liked the post-injury, 20 assists and 1 or so turnover Gil, but only saw that guy twice. I'm not sold that guy plays more than 40 games this season.

I liked Curry in this draft because I thought he'd be a PG that can be a good playmaker. (Looks like a shotjacker in SL, but that's besides the point). I believe I'd trust him over Foye as THE PG because I THINK he's a playmaker when he's not looking for his shot. (Randolph and Morrow are getting their big point production even with Curry at PG). I don't want to wait until Gil gets hurt again to all of a sudden have to make a deal, when it becomes evident why Foye wasn't a good PG at Minnesota.

So, Kanye, I guess it comes down to my fears vs your confidence and wait-and-see approach.

We shall see ...

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

So, suppose Miami were to pull off their Uber moves and land Boozer and Odom. Supposedly Ric Bucher said Odom was likely done in LA (and yes, it seems I am a rumor tramp this summer).

Anyway - and considering the danger of helping a Division rival - would we have a move with them?

At that point they are weakest at: Center, Small forward and Point guard, probably in that order.

Center is not an easy position to fill at all and I don't know what they could get there. They at least have a lot of Power forwards to plug in.

So would Beasley be edged out? He didn't seem to log any minutes at the small forward last year (per 82games). Their big concern would be finding a way to get their talent on the floor.

We could offer Butler, and it would sure be quite something for them to bring back Odom and Butler in the same offseason (John Crotty, come on down!).

anyway, there would be a number of packages available with them.

I was thinking:

Butler
Crittenton

For

Blount
Beasley

Trade ID #: 5197834

Something like that. I don't know if they would go for it, but that is the basic idea that could be tweaked upon. They don't have many junky long term contracts to clean out, so doesn't look like much to take back in that regard. And i don't know how O'Neal could fit into anything either with his huge figure. Not to mention he can play the five more easily than either of Boozer or Odom

It jams up our cap hit this year, but knocks us way down in 2011 so that we could resign our guys and maybe be in the low sixty millions for total payroll. Jamison could start at the four, but back up Miller at the three easily enough. Beasley could come off the bench and log maybe 28 minutes at the four while Blatche backs up Haywood.

So we would be getting younger and cheaper with the ability to replace Jamison more or less.

The concern on the flip side is making Miami into a monster and or seeing Butler in the playoffs, maybe even in a four-five seed scrape in the first round.

Hoopalotta, I'd try not to make a knee-jerk trade based on what Miami may do.

I think Miami's overreaching and should just pursue Odom OR Boozer. I'll strangely feel better if they get both and not just one. Not enough basketballs for them and Wade, and neither Boozer nor Odom is a consistent winner. Yes, they've got talent but I don't think they do the little things to put the Heat over the top. Also, they just got Beasley and I don't know why Miami brass apparently have so little faith in him.

BUT I COULD BE WRONG

As for turning around and giving them Butler for Beasley I don't know. Beasley's got the talent but he's a young buck. He's not a defender yet. I like Caron for now, but I don't know for how long.

I wouldn't trade Butler to the Heat, most likely. Not even for Beasley.

I'd trade him in a second for Bosh ...

[nate33]

Hooplatta, I'd try not to make a knee-jerk trade based on what Miami may do.

I think Miami's overreaching and should just pursue Odom OR Boozer. I'll strangely feel better if they get both and not just one. Not enough basktballs for them and Wade, and neither Boozer nor Odom is a consistent winner. Yes, they've got talent but I don't think they do the little things to put the Heat over the top. Also, they just got Beasley and I don't know why Miami brass apparently have so little faith in him.

BUT I COULD BE WRONG

As for turning around and giving them Butler for Beasley I don't know. Bealsey's got the talent but he's a young buck. He's not a defender yet. I like Caron for now, but I don't know for how long.

I wouldn't trade Butler to the Heat, most likely. Not even for Beasley.

I'd trade hiim in a second for Bosh ...

Good breakdown, CCJ. I agree completely.

[Hoopalotta]

Hoopalotta, I'd try not to make a knee-jerk trade based on what Miami may do.

It's strange, I don't generally feel compelled to consider trades until 'is team x looking to get rid of player y?' rumors abound. But as soon as that happens, It's like Odysseus and the Sirens.

I think Miami's overreaching and should just pursue Odom OR Boozer. I'll strangely feel better if they get both and not just one. Not enough basketballs for them and Wade, and neither Boozer nor Odom is a consistent winner. Yes, they've got talent but I don't think they do the little things to put the Heat over the top. Also, they just got Beasley and I don't know why Miami brass apparently have so little faith in him.

BUT I COULD BE WRONG

As for turning around and giving them Butler for Beasley I don't know. Bealsey's got the talent but he's a young buck. He's not a defender yet. I like Caron for now, but I don't know for how long.

I wouldn't trade Butler to the Heat, most likely. Not even for Beasley.

I'd trade him in a second for Bosh ...

I do see what you're saying about the difficulties of a Heat team with Boozer and Odom competing in a serious way, which makes giving them Butler a bit more palatable. A call of 'overreaching' is fair, but I wonder if Riley has as much choice as he would hope considering Wade being a bit jittery and the looks of the 2009 class maybe thinning up or not even existing.

I do agree that Butler is better now, sure, and I worry that sending him out for Beasley would ruin the precision of the offense in the short term with Beasley not exactly being Jon Stockton. We'd be better next year with Caron, it's true.

But it would be tempting with a 20 year old Beasley. He has the making of quite a face up scorer, and I wonder if Flips zone defense would allow him to play at the '3' eventually. I kind of fancy the upside of it, though I'm sure the growing pains could be tough.

It has 'hmmmmmm...' appeal without being a slam dunk 'yes'.

[Kanyewest]

For what it's worth, Alonzo Mourning said that Beasley would eventually have to make the switch to power forward because he is't quick enough to stay in front of most small forwards.

[LyricalRico]

For what it's worth, Alonzo Mourning said that Beasley would eventually have to make the switch to power forward because he is't quick enough to stay in front of most small forwards.

I was never sold on Beasley. He seems like Drew Gooden with more scoring and less rebounding. He'll definitely have to play PF and I thought Miami made a mistake trying to play him at SF in the first place. But even then he's still a tweener that will need a good defensive center to cover for him, much like how Jamison needs Haywood.

[forbes20]

IF (and that's a big doubtful IF...) New Orleans would consider trading Chris Paul b/c of financial difficulty, how about:

NO Trades: Paul and Chandler

Washington: Foye(expiring), Butler(1yr), Haywood(expiring), Stevenson(1yr), $2.5m cash from Houston

(instead of Caron we could include the Mike Miller at sg and $9.7m expiring if they wanted more expirings and a truer sg)

Wiz:
Paul/Critt/James
Arenas/Young
Miller/Dmac
Jamison/Blatche
Chandler/McGee

NO:
Foye/AD
Bulter/MoPete/Stevenson
Peja/R.Butler/ Posey
West/ Wright
Hayowwd/Armstrong

[miller31time]

If Paul is on the market, there will undoubtedly be better offers than that.

[LyricalRico]

IF (and that's a big doubtful IF...) New Orleans would consider trading Chris Paul b/c of financial difficulty, how about:

NO Trades: Paul and Chandler

Washington: Foye(expiring), Butler(1yr), Haywood(expiring), Stevenson(1yr), $2.5m cash from Houston

(instead of Caron we could include the Mike Miller at sg and $9.7m expiring if they wanted more expirings and a truer sg)

Certainly ambitious. But I think they'd want to also dump Peja in any deal involving Paul. I can see them countering with something like this:

Wiz trade: Foye, Miller, Haywood, Butler, Stevenson, and McGee
Hornets trade: Paul, Chandler, Peja, and Armstrong

Chandler/Armstrong
Jamison/Blatche
Stojakovic/McGuire
Arenas/Young
Paul/James/Critt

It would leave us soft at the forwards but Chandler's there to back them up It could be worth it if Paul and Gil can co-exist. Not sure if they can, though.

[nate33]

Paul doesn't make sense on this team. It's just not a good idea to have $35M tied up in the point guard position. There's no way to build a competent team around Arenas and Paul at their salary. If we acquire Paul, Arenas has to go. And Arenas can't be traded right (for anything decent) until he proves that he's fully recovered.

[LyricalRico]

If we can't move DeBrick for an expring, what about sending him to NJ for Najera+Williams? It gives us the frontcourt depth we need. Najera is a hustling complement to Blatche and the light could come on for Williams, you never know. We take on an extra year of salary but if we decline Williams' 2010-11 option it saves us $1.1M next summer, and then Najara's deal declines in value for the final year.

Not perfect but I think it's a solid alternative if we strike out on available free agents.

[yungal07]

I posted this on the trade board. What do you guys think?

Wizards trade: Foye, Jamison, James
Wizards receive: West, Chandler
The Wizards bolster their frontcourt significantly with West and Chandler. They can now make other moves to reduce salary concerns.


Knicks trade: Mobley
Knicks receive: Foye, James
The Knicks get legitimate talent in return for Mobley's contract. If Foye doesn't work out, they don't have to resign him since both he and James are expiring.


Hornets trade: West, Chandler
Hornets receive: Jamison, Mobley
The Hornets receive an equally productive player in Jamison, while getting immediate salary cap relief.

I know there would be some issues with Chandler backing Haywood since we know they probably wouldn't get along, but at least we'd have some insurance in case Haywood walks. We can also use McGee to dump Stevenson somehow.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

For what it's worth, Alonzo Mourning said that Beasley would eventually have to make the switch to power forward because he is't quick enough to stay in front of most small forwards.

I was never sold on Beasley. He seems like Drew Gooden with more scoring and less rebounding. He'll definitely have to play PF and I thought Miami made a mistake trying to play him at SF in the first place. But even then he's still a tweener that will need a good defensive center to cover for him, much like how Jamison needs Haywood.

Lyrical, haven't you heard? Light-skinned brothers are back! Just look at Barack.

You've got to stop hating, LR.

LR, don't hate the player, hate the game.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Paul doesn't make sense on this team. It's just not a good idea to have $35M tied up in the point guard position. There's no way to build a competent team around Arenas and Paul at their salary. If we acquire Paul, Arenas has to go. And Arenas can't be traded right (for anything decent) until he proves that he's fully recovered.

That's right, nate.

And if Arenas is fully recovered, he stays in DC anyway.

I'm not even going to give Paul a thought. He's not even a possibility for the Wizards, IMO.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I posted this on the trade board. What do you guys think?

Wizards trade: Foye, Jamison, James
Wizards receive: West, Chandler
The Wizards bolster their frontcourt significantly with West and Chandler. They can now make other moves to reduce salary concerns.


Knicks trade: Mobley
Knicks receive: Foye, James
The Knicks get legitimate talent in return for Mobley's contract. If Foye doesn't work out, they don't have to resign him since both he and James are expiring.


Hornets trade: West, Chandler
Hornets receive: Jamison, Mobley
The Hornets receive an equally productive player in Jamison, while getting immediate salary cap relief.

I know there would be some issues with Chandler backing Haywood since we know they probably wouldn't get along, but at least we'd have some insurance in case Haywood walks. We can also use McGee to dump Stevenson somehow.

yungal, that's one to consider prior to the trade deadline.

If Chandler's recovered and not missed many games, I'd strongly consider it with the knowledge Brendan's deal is up. It's not bad at all, yungal.

[LyricalRico]

^ I really don't see NOH trading young assets for an older player with a longer contract. Even if you included Posey instead of Chandler they still wouldn't do it because West's contract decreases over time, making it a salary wash.